Graviteam

English-speaking community => Graviteam Tactics: Mius-Front => Topic started by: randall.flagg on September 16, 2013, 12:52:12 AM



Title: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: randall.flagg on September 16, 2013, 12:52:12 AM
Any word on when we can expect Mius front to be available at gamersgate?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 16, 2013, 03:45:05 AM
I would like to see a screen shot of the 2D tactical map.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Flashburn on September 17, 2013, 05:19:39 PM
YEs mius.....when...where...how?   :P ::)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Void on September 18, 2013, 05:36:55 AM
Yeah Mius, when I can preorder?  ;)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 18, 2013, 07:23:29 AM
I would like to see a screen shot of the 2D tactical map.

(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/mius/2013_09_17/shot_2013_09_18_10_22_07_0000.jpg)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Flashburn on September 18, 2013, 08:04:49 AM
Where is the river?   :P


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 18, 2013, 08:13:31 AM
Where is the river?   :P
At right. You can see small part at right-bottom square


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 18, 2013, 01:17:00 PM
Thanks,
That map looks very good 8)

What is the name of the village in the center of the map?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 18, 2013, 01:31:08 PM
I think Stepanovka

http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer#user=5232438&with_photo_id=78994463&order=date_desc


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 18, 2013, 01:35:13 PM
Top hill on polygon
http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer#user=6986871&with_photo_id=94264248&order=date_desc
http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer#user=2045447&with_photo_id=35355096&order=date_desc

War museum
http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer#user=876126&with_photo_id=4688457&order=date_desc



Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 18, 2013, 02:04:10 PM
Ok,yes. 8)

Looking at a map I have of the area it does look like Stepanovka and Marinovka.
That is where the SS counter attacked also in August lots of potential for replay with different forces.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 18, 2013, 07:37:28 PM
Are there going to be sunflower fields on this map?

I'm reading a book on this battle about an SS unit that attacked hill 213.9 north of Stepanovka,and they claim that they had to attack across vast fields of dense corn and sunflowers that effectively hid the Russian defenders till they open fired on them at point blank range.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 18, 2013, 08:09:29 PM
Are there going to be sunflower fields on this map?

In plans, but if we had resources for it.
But now its corn fields.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 18, 2013, 09:31:46 PM
OK,

Just curious,don't think the sunflowers are much different than corn anyways as protection or concealment.
They'd look cool but I won't miss them. :D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 20, 2013, 08:43:50 PM
Stepanovka village
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/2013_09_21/shot_2013_09_20_23_34_18_0002.jpg)
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/2013_09_21/shot_2013_09_20_23_34_33_0003.jpg)
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/2013_09_21/shot_2013_09_20_23_34_57_0004.jpg)
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/2013_09_21/shot_2013_09_20_23_35_31_0006.jpg)
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/2013_09_21/shot_2013_09_20_23_36_29_0007.jpg)
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/2013_09_21/shot_2013_09_20_23_36_59_0008.jpg)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Void on September 20, 2013, 08:49:41 PM
I really like the first one!  :o  not a sunflowers field :P   but very nice looking screenshot!


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 20, 2013, 08:55:23 PM
Those screen shots look very nice 8)
Another must have game.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 20, 2013, 09:02:30 PM
I really like the first one!  :o  not a sunflowers field :P   but very nice looking screenshot!
its a probe version of polygon


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 20, 2013, 09:09:33 PM
What's a probe version?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 20, 2013, 09:16:11 PM
What's a probe version?
version is designed to test some of the technologies


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 24, 2013, 10:58:55 AM
New features coming in Mius:
1) Global airstrikes in operations, controlled by Main Command, not relative to player
2) Main Command Reserve pool - units from it can be moved to any active platoon.
3) Renewed operational interface.
4) Simple control (and selection) for heavy weapons in squads (for example MG and ATR teams or APCs), you can select and operate independent for this teams for one squad or for whole battalion. No need to divide squads or do any strange things.
5) Improved sound system with sound waves relative to objects (projectiles) speeds.
6) Automatically selected battle place in operations is default behavior (can be disabled in arcade settings)

https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/posts/592335174159094


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 27, 2013, 07:45:20 PM
According to numerous requests, meet new extended quick battle settings:
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/mius/2013_09_26/shot_2013_09_27_22_43_17_0002.jpg)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 27, 2013, 08:06:58 PM
 8)

I like very much,especially since 95% of all my game play is Quick Battles.
THANK YOU!!! ;D :D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 27, 2013, 08:20:30 PM
One question.

Time of year-are the polygons going to be released with different seasons.
For example Stepanovka with Winter,Fall and Spring look too.
or
is it going to be if you choose a certain season like Summer only certain polygon maps will be available as choices.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 27, 2013, 08:49:33 PM
One question.

Time of year-are the polygons going to be released with different seasons.
For example Stepanovka with Winter,Fall and Spring look too.

Of course no :)
We think that changing of seasons by texture replacement is a very crude method, but make polygons in several different copies at once we do not have resources.

Season and year affect to accessible ammunition and a little bit on the distribution of infantry weapons.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 27, 2013, 09:07:13 PM
Somewhere near the Garany (Tarany) village
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/mius/2013_09_27/shot_2013_09_27_23_58_45_0003.jpg)
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/mius/2013_09_27/shot_2013_09_27_23_59_17_0005.jpg)
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/mius/2013_09_27/shot_2013_09_27_23_59_55_0007.jpg)

(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/mius/2013_09_27/shot_2013_09_28_00_00_26_0008.jpg)
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/mius/2013_09_27/shot_2013_09_28_00_00_57_0009.jpg)
(http://www.steelfury.com/demo/k43t/!forum_images/mius/2013_09_27/shot_2013_09_28_00_02_14_0013.jpg)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 27, 2013, 09:50:42 PM
Quote
Quote from: Dane49 on Today at 08:20:30 PM

One question.

Time of year-are the polygons going to be released with different seasons.
For example Stepanovka with Winter,Fall and Spring look too.


Of course no Smiley
We think that changing of seasons by texture replacement is a very crude method, but make polygons in several different copies at once we do not have resources.

Season and year affect to accessible ammunition and a little bit on the distribution of infantry weapons.


That was my 2nd guess.Sort of like the way CM does it.

Too bad,I never liked the bottom 2/3 portion of the winter Krasnya Polyana map,but always thought it would make a great Summer map.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on September 27, 2013, 10:04:55 PM
Quote
Quote from: Dane49 on Today at 08:20:30 PM

One question.

Time of year-are the polygons going to be released with different seasons.
For example Stepanovka with Winter,Fall and Spring look too.


Of course no Smiley
We think that changing of seasons by texture replacement is a very crude method, but make polygons in several different copies at once we do not have resources.

Season and year affect to accessible ammunition and a little bit on the distribution of infantry weapons.


That was my 2nd guess.Sort of like the way CM does it.

There is a very schematic way, as in the whole entire game. Winter is different from the summer not only textures, if we're talking about a realistic implementation. Winter and autumn is in any case a new polygon, if we want to make it look normal.

Too bad,I never liked the bottom 2/3 portion of the winter Krasnya Polyana map,but always thought it would make a great Summer map.
In Mius is in any case not be anything other than the summer season.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on September 27, 2013, 10:11:51 PM
I understand.
It was just wishful thinking on my part.
Jumped to some conclusions before I actually thought it out. :-[


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: whukid on October 09, 2013, 05:12:46 AM
Getting on board with the Dunkelgelb, eh? I like it. ;D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 09, 2013, 08:17:14 AM
So far,only the PzIIIN has this color scheme in the game right now.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Krabb on October 14, 2013, 07:48:56 PM
Renewed interface
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.603456079713670.1073741831.590904460968832&type=1


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: cuca_ on October 15, 2013, 04:59:47 PM
Is this gonna be a stand alone game or and addon or DLC like before?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 15, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
From what I understand,this will be a new game with a new engine that will have new DLCs that will be added to it.
It will be like GTOS,only new and different.

I suspect at some point it will completely replace GTOS as the new Graviteam standard.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: cuca_ on October 15, 2013, 06:32:17 PM
Yeah but the new engine visually look like the one used right now, that's why I'm kind of confused.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 15, 2013, 06:44:46 PM
I've never noticed the visuals to get worse with this series only better.
If you look at APK43 and todays GTOS the visual enhancements have very much improved.
I expect Mius Front to be an even better visual and graphic experience then anything made for this series- past or present .


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 15, 2013, 07:29:59 PM
Yeah but the new engine visually look like the one used right now, that's why I'm kind of confused.
To the GTOS are added almost all of the changes from the Mius through patches, of course what it looks like the same. Do you see anything wrong in that? You think that we need to sell all changes? Or what?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: cuca_ on October 15, 2013, 07:40:11 PM
Yeah but the new engine visually look like the one used right now, that's why I'm kind of confused.
To the GTOS are added almost all of the changes from the Mius through patches, of course what it looks like the same. Do you see anything wrong in that? You think that we need to sell all changes? Or what?

No, no, it's all fine, it looks great, it's just that whenever I hear someone saying the game is going to have a new engine I expect something totally different from what we have now, so that's why I was a bit confused, but its just me, it's all good.  :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on October 17, 2013, 04:19:45 PM
The new interface looks handy. I like the matrix like presentation, very effective. Especially the options/settings screen is now easy to read. But one good note: make the scrollbar more visible. Othwerwise most of the options/settings will not be found be busy people.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 17, 2013, 04:23:07 PM
Yeah but the new engine visually look like the one used right now, that's why I'm kind of confused.
To the GTOS are added almost all of the changes from the Mius through patches, of course what it looks like the same. Do you see anything wrong in that? You think that we need to sell all changes? Or what?

No, no, it's all fine, it looks great, it's just that whenever I hear someone saying the game is going to have a new engine I expect something totally different from what we have now, so that's why I was a bit confused, but its just me, it's all good.  :)
I hope to the end of GTMF life cycle it looks different than in release :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 17, 2013, 04:25:51 PM
But one good note: make the scrollbar more visible.
This interface dont have any scrollbars :)

Othwerwise most of the options/settings will not be found be busy people.
I very much hope the most of players will not touch the settings except from the first line :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: wodin on October 18, 2013, 01:15:59 AM
How can you tell how many soldiers in a platoon are left? Couldn't work it out looking at the screenshots.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 18, 2013, 12:02:17 PM
How can you tell how many soldiers in a platoon are left? Couldn't work it out looking at the screenshots.

Absolute count (not needed in most cases) in another tab or in tips.
Relative percentage from standard roster (like in historical docs) you can see on platoon's tab head.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on October 18, 2013, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: andrey12345
This interface dont have any scrollbars :)
I meant those grey / light blue squares on the right side of the settings screen. I thought they are sort of "discrete scrollbar".


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 18, 2013, 04:17:44 PM
Quote from: andrey12345
This interface dont have any scrollbars :)
I meant those grey / light blue squares on the right side of the settings screen. I thought they are sort of "discrete scrollbar".
Its not scrollbar, its an indicator which page is active now. Looks like as in Android cellphones.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on October 18, 2013, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: andrey12345
This interface dont have any scrollbars :)
I meant those grey / light blue squares on the right side of the settings screen. I thought they are sort of "discrete scrollbar".
Its not scrollbar, its an indicator which page is active now. Looks like as in Android cellphones.
Ok, I didn't know how to name it. :) Anyway, the page indicator was difficult to notice.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: cuca_ on October 19, 2013, 04:44:56 PM
OK, I've noticed that there is no option to abandon vehicle when it gets damaged or immobilized, which is sometimes really silly, I have to look at my halftrack crew getting pounded by a tank or a cannon and can't do nothing about it.
I think you should add that option in the Mius front.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 19, 2013, 11:20:25 PM
In your start menu open controls(5.12)abondon vehicle-select the vehicle and press L.

You can change the keys,I changed it to A and use the letter L to level the camera.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: wodin on October 21, 2013, 12:31:25 PM
In your start menu open controls(5.12)abondon vehicle-select the vehicle and press L.

You can change the keys,I changed it to A and use the letter L to level the camera.

Never knew that...wonder if there is anything else..will have to check. Thanks for the heads up.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: cuca_ on October 22, 2013, 02:09:19 PM
In your start menu open controls(5.12)abondon vehicle-select the vehicle and press L.

You can change the keys,I changed it to A and use the letter L to level the camera.
Yeah I saw that but it doesn't work. They just sit in the vehicle doing nothing.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Krabb on October 22, 2013, 02:15:20 PM
5.12 actually means Leave vehicle (wrong translation there). It is meant only for troops.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: cuca_ on October 22, 2013, 02:19:54 PM
5.12 actually means Leave vehicle (wrong translation there). It is meant only for troops.

Yeah, so there is no option to abandon vehicle. Sometimes I just wanna save the crew cause the vehicle is lost.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 22, 2013, 06:57:26 PM
Short description of new troop management system in #Mius-Front
https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/posts/608386969220581


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 22, 2013, 08:10:00 PM
I never really had the opportunity to use the abandon vehicle key.
The only reason I noticed it,was because I was looking to see what key the L button was already assigned to since I wanted to use it for leveling the camera.

I did try to use once but was too late and the crew survivors had already fled the vehicle after it was destroyed.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: cuca_ on October 22, 2013, 09:06:10 PM
I never really had the opportunity to use the abandon vehicle key.
The only reason I noticed it,was because I was looking to see what key the L button was already assigned to since I wanted to use it for leveling the camera.

I did try to use once but was too late and the crew survivors had already fled the vehicle after it was destroyed.
It is there but it doesn't work, ever.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 22, 2013, 09:42:40 PM
Krabb said it isn't an abandon vehicle key but the same as the dismount button on the UI.
Only passengers leave the vehicle not the crew.

The translation is wrong for that key.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Xambrium on October 23, 2013, 04:43:57 PM
i dont realy fully like the new system. You can already use full platoon commands if you like and i do on advance but in defence like in a town or by setting up ambushes the Ai did not find good positions i.E. for single AT Guns like me...and i have fun on defense missions to set up death traps by deploying the single units.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 23, 2013, 08:03:07 PM
i dont realy fully like the new system. You can already use full platoon commands if you like and i do on advance but in defence like in a town or by setting up ambushes the Ai did not find good positions i.E. for single AT Guns like me...and i have fun on defense missions to set up death traps by deploying the single units.

This changes does not apply on tactical combat. This is a management system of the troops for _operational phase_, not for tactical. In tactical combat, you can still control by the squad basis, and even can manage individual teams.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Schuck on October 23, 2013, 08:34:59 PM
Thats good news, you had me worried there!
Andrey, will you be using all of the map space, ie reserves only appearing on the map when available, or will it stay as it is.
It seems such a shame not to use all of these beautiful maps. Plus the fighting area would be alot larger.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 23, 2013, 09:21:23 PM
I think you need at least some border area so you don't have that edge of the earth look,but maybe opening up an extra 500 meters of the 1,000 meter grid squares on the border area for game play would be cool.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 23, 2013, 09:34:23 PM
Quote
This changes does not apply on tactical combat. This is a management system of the troops for _operational phase_, not for tactical. In tactical combat, you can still control by the squad basis, and even can manage individual teams.

I had this discussion with Andrey a few months ago also.I thought He may have changed his mind after reading the Facebook description.

Glad to see it is operational only and does not apply to the tactical phase of the game.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 23, 2013, 10:51:20 PM
Glad to see it is operational only and does not apply to the tactical phase of the game.

Tactical phase we have not yet engaged. So I would in your place did not rejoice too soon  ;D.

It may be an option as shown in the fifth page
http://failteamtactics.blogspot.fi/

is not too far from the truth :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 23, 2013, 11:02:27 PM
If it is just an option I can live with that.
I would be interested in both actually.

I mostly just play QBs with company size units,so I like controlling the individual squads.
But with larger size forces it may be better to have the other option.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on October 26, 2013, 07:39:19 AM
Management of operational phase sounds promising. But OMG, several regiments *KABOOOM*!?  Now I'm beginning to wonder what really happens when they start "messing up" with tactical phase. I'll make sure to keep one of my eyes watcing the news, while the another is playing the game and the another generating more failteam tactics.  :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Schuck on October 26, 2013, 12:21:42 PM
Hey Dane,
I see your point about the map, having a sudden edge to it wouldnt be great.
Its just i love the maps, but i have always found them to be to small.
I cant begin to imagine the time and effort that goes into producing them, so this isnt a critism.
I just dont think they give the oppotunity for movment, ie flanking and turning the enemy.
And smaller maps seem to funnel and concentrate men and armour into small areas, its possibley this that slows PC's to a snails pace.
Now a nice big 100km x 100km map of the Russian front, that would be GREAT! ;D

I also like to control individual squads. Especially as already mentioned, setting up AT guns in defence.
The Auto-positioning does put them in some very odd places!
I think the game play at the moment is spot on, and shouldnt be altered, after all "if it aint broken, dont try to fix it!"


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 26, 2013, 01:08:22 PM
Management of operational phase sounds promising. But OMG, several regiments *KABOOOM*!? 

In Shilovo DLC (latest version) you can see approx two infantry regiments and half of tank regiment from German side.
In Mius will be even more.

Is too much if you manage troops per squad basis (in operational phase). But in GTOS you can manage only on squad basis (in platoon area).


In GTMF you can manage on company basis (in battalion area) - setup reinforced coy and on platoon basis - setup priority and logistic strategy. Its more realistic for battalion commander rather GTOS method.

You cant move individual guns/vehicles or squads in platoons manually (as in GTOS). But you can "move" guns/vehicles or squads from one company to another (in battalion area) or personnel and supplies from one squad to another (in platoon area).

P.S. "move" is asking from AI of course  :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 26, 2013, 01:14:48 PM
Now a nice big 100km x 100km map of the Russian front, that would be GREAT! ;D
I also like to control individual squads.

Give the control of the troops in one turn during 8 actual hours, not less!

Reposition of 1000+ squads in 200 platoons manually it's so beautiful.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: chashka17 on October 26, 2013, 04:01:05 PM
Seems as if GT are 'incorporating' the idea behind Histwars' mechanics - where nothing smaller than a regt is interacted with http://www.histwar.com/ (http://www.histwar.com/)  (Another small dev who has given up a huge chunk his life to a monumental project.)
This concept works very well for a Napoleonic setting & its' style of balletic tactical maneuvers.

In WW2 some micro-management seems desirable if the AI placement algorithms aren't tweaked more.  But I fully expect more tweaking - GT has a track record of improvements. 
It will be interesting to see if the sweet-spot is hit with platoon/company level AI management.

Recently I played some ToW2 & it was interesting to see the already huge difference between micro-managing every unit & then going back to GTOS to compare AI behavior.
I think Andrey is correct in his assertion that the level of micromanagement would cripple the player if individual units needed management, given scale. The fluidity of the game is one of the things that really hits home after playing ToW again.  Bigger maps, more units & thus bigger battles with regular 'toy soldiers' certainly take forever to organize  :)

I recall a trend in older games where 1 unit sprite became a group of sprites - giving the illusion of many units but effectively coded as a single entity.  I think this approach may be present in some ways within HWLGs unit/regt handling.  Assigning individual unit sprites & characteristics to an AI en bloc promises to create plenty of new head-aches & not just for the players.   ;D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 26, 2013, 04:07:57 PM
I enjoy the larger maps also.
Not for larger battles but for having more battle areas to choose from
when setting up a Quick Battle.

The game plays best for me when I assume the role of the company or
platoon commander.

Otherwise if I have too many forces on the map to control I have to move
the camera further up into the sky to manage those forces.

I love the detail of the maps and the units and prefer to keep the camera
at ground level as much as possible.This is where the game shines the most
for me,which is why I mainly play Quick Battles and usually with no more
than a company per side.

I've yet to find a game that does this better at this level.
My greatest wish is that more people become interested in this game and
Graviteam is able to generate enough profit to be able to expand this
series into other theatres of WW2.

I think they would do a wonderful job with the Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Schuck on October 26, 2013, 05:19:01 PM
Obviously the movement of such large amount of men and equipment, 1000+ squads would only take place in the map phase (operational phase).
And maybe they could be moved in Company size (or maybe even Battalion) only on the map. As it is now.
The number of squads would still be limited by the number and size of the fighting area, ie 3x3 km (9 squares). And wether you limit the forces available in the game settings.

So what i mean is, leave everything as it is (ive grown to love the new orders system!) just with bigger maps to allow better movement over a wider area.
On the small maps we have now, flanking manouvers are all but impossible.

It would appear Dane i play the game exactly as you do, at ground level for maximum emersion.
After i have positioned my men and the game starts i never look at the map. Instead i use one i have printed off with the key points marked on it.
So much more realistic.

The Ardennes, that would be nice.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 26, 2013, 08:53:54 PM
News about troop management system
https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/posts/610427445683200


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: chashka17 on October 27, 2013, 10:16:09 AM
News about troop management system
https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/posts/610427445683200

This looks good.  I am curious about player structure-control relative to scale.
When allocating units to battle groups can the player select which entities go where?  Or is it always automatically done by the AI?
e.g. I want Pilyushin as my lead scout in a specific squad, am I given that level of interaction if I want it?
& on a similar note - The RPG element of individual characters, their stats, awards etc is always more immersive for me, will this aspect be diminished in the new engine?  (more units = more stats = more pages - a lot of scrolling or sub-levels might be req'd.)

My understanding of late war tactics esp. for Germany implies that almost 'random' unit composition occurs - Grab whatever is about & make it work. 
Is the new structure flexible enough to handle this via AI or by allowing player assignments?  (Could be year specific for historical accuracy).


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: chashka17 on October 27, 2013, 10:47:34 AM
I enjoy the larger maps also.
Not for larger battles but for having more battle areas to choose from
when setting up a Quick Battle.

The game plays best for me when I assume the role of the company or
platoon commander.

Otherwise if I have too many forces on the map to control I have to move
the camera further up into the sky to manage those forces.

I love the detail of the maps and the units and prefer to keep the camera
at ground level as much as possible.This is where the game shines the most
for me,which is why I mainly play Quick Battles and usually with no more
than a company per side.

I've yet to find a game that does this better at this level.
My greatest wish is that more people become interested in this game and
Graviteam is able to generate enough profit to be able to expand this
series into other theatres of WW2.

I think they would do a wonderful job with the Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes.

I find I need to have a birds eye view to get a sense of the ebb & flow.  Too easy to get drawn into one particular exchange & forget the rest of the field  ;D 
[hence my (impossible) wish for a game recording VCR so I can get my up-close fix for every little event.]
I guess it comes down to balancing squad leader with general perspective.  I've seen sims/games fail when they have tried to be all things at all levels.  A great concept versus the restrictions of code.  Andrey seems like he has a handle on this as far as MF goes though.

It would be great to see more from the game in terms of theatres.  But I am happy to see one area done well - this is better than a slew of half-baked theatres. 

Driftng a bit OT
I've played a lot of ToW & that game more than any other at the time changed my taste for RTS type products.  Given 1C dropped the series after ToW3 Korea I have to ask what their numbers were like.  Big studio not short of resources (relatively) switches to (for me the huge disappointment of) Men of War.  (This series is, by far, not the worst WW2 game however!)

Can't help thinking that the band-wagon being swamped with some terrible games with a WW2 theme is largely responsible for the niche nature of this game. 
After seeing soooo much cr#p how many 'average' gamers are willing to even try another WW2 game?
Hollywood & co has done the same with movies - spin-offs & remakes & 'Z' list copies with similar names.  Not always easy to find a good product before boredom & low attention spans kick in & it's back to the game consoles for the masses  :P

All I can do is try to force as many buddies to play this game as possible & hope to break the WoT mentality pixel by agonizing pixel  :D :D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 27, 2013, 11:23:14 AM
This looks good.  I am curious about player structure-control relative to scale.
When allocating units to battle groups can the player select which entities go where?  Or is it always automatically done by the AI?
All done automatically, in other case this feature dont have a sense.

The RPG element of individual characters, their stats, awards etc is always more immersive for me, will this aspect be diminished in the new engine?  (more units = more stats = more pages - a lot of scrolling or sub-levels might be req'd.)
All computed as in GTOS, even more precise in some aspects like a rearrange personnel in platoon (one exception is awards). But you dont have a direct control how to do this, only recommendations.
more units = more stats but few pages  ;D

My understanding of late war tactics esp. for Germany implies that almost 'random' unit composition occurs - Grab whatever is about & make it work. 
Is the new structure flexible enough to handle this via AI or by allowing player assignments?  (Could be year specific for historical accuracy).

In this case even better than before, since the choice of the AI ​​makes a certain element of the _controlled_ randomness.
You ask for something and you know that if it is possible you get it in general terms, but you never know what will be absolutely precise as in GTOS  :D.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: chashka17 on October 27, 2013, 12:57:25 PM
Thanks Andrey.
Sounds as if you are hitting a good balance between speed & fluidity of set-up / play & the unpredictable nature of battlefield changes.
A good approach to the emulation of command / logistics / conditions.  Makes me want to play it!  ;)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 27, 2013, 01:22:56 PM
Quote
It would be great to see more from the game in terms of theatres.  But I am happy to see one area done well - this is better than a slew of half-baked theatres.

I agree.
I wouldn't want to see a bunch of 1/2 assed products at the expense of 1 really good product.
If the funding isn't there to do the same type of job on a Bulge game with the same quality we've come to expect with the Russian front then I definitely would be against Graviteam moving in that direction.

Graviteam is the only company that makes tactical games at this level that I enjoy.
I certainly would hate to see them go out of business by making a bunch of garbage that just sounds interesting but looks and plays bad and no one buys.
I think they've come to the same conclusion.

I know Combat Mission is going to go to the Ardennes eventually and is the closest game in terms of how they depict tactical combat at this level,but I doubt they'll be able to do the kind of job that would satisfy my expectations the same way that Graviteam does.
Lately I haven't been impressed with anything BF has put out and I'm not even going to comment beyond this about their pricing or other restrictive features.
Since CM Normandy I haven't been able to play that game and the Italy and Market Garden games don't look interesting whatsoever or graphically appealing.

The people who play the CM games seem to be happy with and accept what BF is doing,so I doubt if anything will change much once they get into the Ardennes with that series.
They've even convinced themselves that graphics aren't even important,and micromanagement and being able to play a human opponent above all else is what makes CM  'Superior' to other games. ???
So I've basically given up all hope of any miracles ever coming from that direction.

I search the internet frequently looking to see if some other company other than BF or Graviteam are making these types of games,but haven't really seen any that would even remotely qualify as a candidate for my consideration.
So it looks like my only options are do without a Bulge game for now or hope Graviteam can one day find a way to do it.

Maybe(Hopefully)one day a publisher with some deep pockets will want to see a western theatre type version of this game and approach Graviteam to oversee that project and allow them enough freedom to do the job properly.
I'm hoping for that.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: cuca_ on October 27, 2013, 04:43:12 PM
AI is just dumb. I'm not sure if I understand all this but I know one thing, it's always bad to rely on AI.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 27, 2013, 05:59:33 PM
AI is just dumb. I'm not sure if I understand all this but I know one thing, it's always bad to rely on AI.
AI not dumb and not smart. At the current level of technology use such "concept" to the AI ​​does not make sense at all.

AI operates on the basis of strong and logical algorithms, but human not. Therefore, the AI ​​almost always comes logically and deliberately, but it is not always clear to humans who does not think (yes most of humans dont think logically during a substantial part of the time  ;D) and work on emotions and feelings not on logics. From human's point of view - AI is dumb, but this dont right at all - AI is another :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on October 27, 2013, 06:26:15 PM
Graviteam seems to posses a certain ambitious approach to computer based wargame/simulation. It's not just face-lifting to increase marketing and sales - I believe they want to improve the game also for themselves. As long as that continues to be true (at least to some extent), we'll see interesting new things added the game. One at a time.

I'm happy with the operational changes and troop management system so far. I didn't find anything wrong or unlogical in it at first sight. You know, it's not about what is positive, but what is negative. You don't comment/critize positive things! ;D Funny that no matter how much the game is improved, it will never be complete because of it's nature. There's always someting to bitch about (theoretically speaking).  :D
 
AI is just dumb. I'm not sure if I understand all this but I know one thing, it's always bad to rely on AI.

I think you are correct, if we look at things from the point of view of your comment. But if we think it another way, AI cannot be dumb. It's just a collection of scripts and algorithms (I don't believe it can learn and adapt - otherwise we would have a skynet problem already  ;D). Even with scripts and algorithms, if we can quantize all the necessary variables and understand their relationship mathematically, it's possible to do some magic. :) "AI" don't have to be perfect in all the cases. If it can produce results within satisfactory limits, it may be used to do the extra work for you that you simply cannot do by yourself alone.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 27, 2013, 07:11:19 PM
I'm happy with the operational changes and troop management system so far. I didn't find anything wrong or unlogical in it at first sight.
Its not "direct acting" system. This aspect for many causes dissatisfaction. How is it? I ordered to do so, and stupid AI is not performed! Or did not do as I conceived :)

I think this new features are wide field for Failteam  ;D


 


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: chashka17 on October 28, 2013, 03:56:09 PM
The ability of the AI is one of the main reason I like wargaming.  I have never had any interest in online gaming because I want to see an AI in action, not a person.

I fully expect Failteam incidents, but sometimes that is interesting (& it's not as if there aren't plenty of human 'what are you thinking?' incidents out there!).

I can see the line between ToW style micro-management & AI unit distribution will be critical for gamers.  From a programming point of view I personally would probably be working on the AI instead of allowing players to have access to manipulate each squads composition.  From a gamers POV I sometimes like to micro round a bit.  :)

Given time & scale I hope Andreys approach pays off for GT.  I can live without micro'ing if the AI has evolved to annoy me enough.  ;D

@Dane
I think I have commented on BFC before on here, the new CM has been a disappointment for me.  The 'winning formula' with a facelift isn't doing it for me. Pricing seems a bit punitive, with ToW as a case in point, it is often 3-5x higher on BFC than it is on GG or Steam, that doesn't seem logical to me.  Paying for patches to the CM line also seems a bit dubious given the array of significant game-changers GT has pushed out for free during their products life-times.


I have wondered if, instead of gamers worrying about multiplayer in GTOS etc, whether a PBEM component could be feasible - perhaps as a separately purchased add-on.  As I say I like to study AI so it isn't a big deal for me, but it could be interesting for some to 'share saves' as it were.

Is your field of interest strictly modern war?  If not Histwar is definitely worth a look (there is a demo) AIs as General & his staff is definitely something I find interesting to see.  The upcoming version looks very visually impressive.   Not that you should EVER be $spending on anything but GT products of course.   :P ;)

Mius Front - Are we there yet? Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 28, 2013, 05:27:16 PM
Not much interested in the Napoleon Wars at the moment.
Been reading a lot about the American Civil War lately and looked at Scourge of war but the graphics in that game are not up to the standards I've come to expect from a Graviteam product.

I've become quite the graphics whore since GTOS and while gameplay is important also,graphics are as equally important to me in that respect.

Tried the demo for the battle for the bulge a few weeks ago and the whole time I was playing it all I could think about was how much I wished Graviteam had tackled this subject and how much I would enjoy playing a game about this battle done the Graviteam way.

Went searching around the internet for something that might do as a substitute and all that came close was CM and they aren't even there yet and I'm already familiar with that game and find it lacking in areas that according to my tastes only Graviteam has a handle on and seems to understand how to do this right.
I doubt BF can,will or ever meet my expectations again after playing GTOS.Hence my semi rant about their game.

I seem to be drawing blanks when looking for new games to play about other WW2 theatres and other wars lately and decided to give gaming a break and do some reading for a change till Graviteam releases its next product.
I played Shilovo for 2 weeks straight and burnt out on gaming for awhile.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on October 28, 2013, 11:40:00 PM
Improved repair system in GTMF
https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/posts/611613608897917


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: chashka17 on October 29, 2013, 06:25:20 PM
I am hoping Mius will achieve the 'spectacle of war' more effectively.  Scale of battles is something difficult to grasp.   Even if you are there.  More units on a bigger field would be especially fun in HD on a huge screen with theatre sound.  ;D
Getting the AI to handle the little tasks will be interesting. 

The new repair system sounds like it will give a bit more realism.  From a command POV it all sounds like a more realistic approach.  Handling the unforeseen brought in by unfamiliar officers resonates with what Andrey has said so far.

***

Dane which Bulge game are you referring to?  I try to keep abreast of wargames but there is a lot of rubbish out there & only so much time!  I must have eye-candy.  The emulation of paper hex maps & card counters is a format that is painful to play for me nowadays (even if its' on real paper!).

On the subject of repair & reading - you read Belton Coopers book - Death Traps?
& for the East -
Red Sniper on the Eastern Front: The Memoirs of Joseph Pilyushin is accessible & informative. I can see why the book is still popular after many years in print. 


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on October 29, 2013, 06:42:09 PM
@Chashka17

This one:
Matrix Games - Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge - Downloads



www.matrixgames.com/products/377/downloads/‎





Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Schuck on October 29, 2013, 08:00:12 PM
Yep,
The removal of badly damaged vehicles from the field for repair, and their return to the reserves is alot more realistic than having an immobilised unit laying about.
Ive often wondered if when ordering ammo or fuel the resupply trucks would be able to drive to the unit in question during the playing phase.
And then drive back of map, to simulate the drop, as they dont seem to do much at the moment? Just a thought.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: wodin on October 30, 2013, 10:14:58 AM
I am hoping Mius will achieve the 'spectacle of war' more effectively.  Scale of battles is something difficult to grasp.   Even if you are there.  More units on a bigger field would be especially fun in HD on a huge screen with theatre sound.  ;D




Not for me..more units..game becomes a click fest..may aswell play a myriad of WW2 RTS games if that happens. Thankgod for the ability to limit the battle radius..also thank god for it due to performance issues since Shilivo.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on October 30, 2013, 10:57:53 AM
Me too, the latest DLC dragged my FPS down to 5 or 6 in places, a slideshow. As I don't have any money for PC replacement or upgrades in the forseable future I think that Mius might be a "Bridge too Far" for me :)

Cheers

Aces


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: cuca_ on October 30, 2013, 01:31:52 PM
Me too, the latest DLC dragged my FPS down to 5 or 6 in places, a slideshow. As I don't have any money for PC replacement or upgrades in the forseable future I think that Mius might be a "Bridge too Far" for me :)

Cheers

Aces
Same here


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Krabb on October 31, 2013, 05:54:43 PM
Miraculous stuff is now here: http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=11382.0 (http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=11382.0).


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 05, 2013, 09:08:17 AM
Somthing new
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171459&d=1383337322


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 05, 2013, 09:34:13 AM
Very nice thanks Andrey

Regards

Aces


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Void on November 05, 2013, 02:30:15 PM
ooohh that´s a good news :)



Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 09, 2013, 09:19:26 PM
Somthing new
https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/posts/618151274910817


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on November 10, 2013, 10:36:57 AM
Towing of guns is cool, though I guess one rarely can afford to use it during tactical battle. But anyway, it's cool. :)
When one do, will the ammunition be transported also?
How about motorization of guns in operational phase (if not motorized by default)?

"Missions" are also cool, but in contrast to some other fellow players here, I don't really like Quick Battles.  :D

Keep it up!  8)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 10, 2013, 10:05:18 PM
Towing of guns is cool, though I guess one rarely can afford to use it during tactical battle. But anyway, it's cool. :)
When one do, will the ammunition be transported also?
Yes, in virtual manner with guns

How about motorization of guns in operational phase (if not motorized by default)?
Controlled by player, but in Mius you need to take real trucks (not fake as in GTOS), and if lacks of trucks or they are broken, then there will be problems with the motorization. You can motorize not motorized or demotorize motorized at any turn. If you have a transport units of course.

"Missions" are also cool, but in contrast to some other fellow players here, I don't really like Quick Battles.  :D
Despite the fact that the mission is now called as quick battles and quick battles are called as "quick battles editor" , missions they're somthing other than a quick battles in GTOS. It's like a snapshot for battles that you can do for any battle in the operation (and even for that which has not yet played) and play it in advance, or later. Share for the other players or for devs if it have a bugs  :D, and so on.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on November 12, 2013, 09:32:17 AM
Controlled by player, but in Mius you need to take real trucks (not fake as in GTOS), and if lacks of trucks or they are broken, then there will be problems with the motorization. You can motorize not motorized or demotorize motorized at any turn. If you have a transport units of course.

Sounds great. I assume that the trucks are seen on the battlefield also - which makes towing very useful if the guns must be relocated quickly.

Despite the fact that the mission is now called as quick battles and quick battles are called as "quick battles editor" , missions they're somthing other than a quick battles in GTOS. It's like a snapshot for battles that you can do for any battle in the operation (and even for that which has not yet played) and play it in advance, or later. Share for the other players or for devs if it have a bugs  :D, and so on.

Sorry, but I still can't fully understand. ;D

So I guess that missions are exactly the same battles ("flame icons") that occur during operation after AI has moved and finished its turn?
I.e. missions are a saved state (snapshot) of possible battles in an operation after player and AI has finished movement of turn X?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Flashburn on November 12, 2013, 01:22:21 PM
towed guns  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 12, 2013, 01:29:29 PM
So I guess that missions are exactly the same battles ("flame icons") that occur during operation after AI has moved and finished its turn?
Yes, its a source for missions.

I.e. missions are a saved state (snapshot) of possible battles in an operation after player and AI has finished movement of turn X?
Yes. You can save battle from operation or from QB as mission and you can even play it forward (in opeartion case) in training purposes of course.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on November 14, 2013, 11:05:27 AM
you can even play it forward (in opeartion case) in training purposes of course.
In short: a clever cheating system  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 17, 2013, 01:45:15 PM
News about trophy system:
https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/posts/622160604509884


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on November 17, 2013, 02:04:38 PM
Wonderful!

Does this apply to small arms / heavy machineguns, at-rifles and light mortars / at-guns and howitzers / vehicles / tanks?

My guess is only for the first two categories above, since the rest would be taken out from the battlefield like in GTOS...


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 17, 2013, 04:36:31 PM
Just to let you know Andrey, "trophies" would be better translated into English as "captured enemy equipment" (or captured enemy weapons).  It just reads better and makes more sense that way in English.  I recommend changing the term trophies in game, to that or something similar.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Krabb on November 17, 2013, 05:18:48 PM
What about "trophy teams", what is the English term for this? And is "gathering of captured equipment" correct? Or maybe it should be "collecting of..."?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: chashka17 on November 17, 2013, 05:25:25 PM
Just to let you know Andrey, "trophies" would be better translated into English as "captured enemy equipment" (or captured enemy weapons).  It just reads better and makes more sense that way in English.  I recommend changing the term trophies in game, to that or something similar.

I have to differ on that Tanker - I fully understand Trophy being 'Trophy of War' IIRC the term 'Prize of War' was in 'official' use in the UK Navy by the time of Nelson.  (It may have been earlier)

Historically 'trophy' comes from the Ancient world:- re wikipedia: -
Quote
In ancient Greece and Rome, military victories were commemorated with a display of captured arms and standards. A trophy (from the Greek tropaion) was originally a war memorial assembled from such items on a battlefield. The Roman triumph also displayed these items as well as cultural objects, which later came to be called war trophies. Body parts of slain enemies have sometimes served as trophies since antiquity, in a practice called human trophy collecting. The recovery of Roman eagles taken as trophies by enemy forces sometimes inspired years of added warfare.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 17, 2013, 05:50:03 PM
Hi Andrey,

You mentioned as used in the latest GTOS patch but I've never seen the use of captured enemy weapons. Is there a setting to enable this?.

Kind regards

Aces

Edit: Actually I do recall seeing the Russians using captured German halftracks but never noticed any other weapons and small arms.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on November 17, 2013, 06:09:05 PM
I'm far from native english speaker, but I think that trophy is more of a show-off thing that is not meant for actual use. You could say that americans in wwII collected pistols like Luger or swords like katana as trophies, for example.

Better term would indeed be captured weapons/equipment.

Anyway, there's so many bad translations in the game that I wouldn't even notice. With all respect. :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on November 17, 2013, 06:10:24 PM
I think modern sports have altered the word trophy lately.

Most people now associate a trophy as something awarded to display for winning a sporting event.

I understand what it means in the game but I still translate it as captured enemy weapons for use as opposed to an award or a display.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 17, 2013, 06:20:38 PM
I'm far from native english speaker, but I think that trophy is more of a show-off thing that is not meant for actual use. You could say that americans in wwII collected pistols like Luger or swords like katana as trophies, for example.

Better term would indeed be captured weapons/equipment.

Anyway, there's so many bad translations in the game that I wouldn't even notice. With all respect. :)

You have to start somewhere.  And incorrect translations are the easiest thing to correct.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 17, 2013, 06:33:04 PM
Just to let you know Andrey, "trophies" would be better translated into English as "captured enemy equipment" (or captured enemy weapons).  It just reads better and makes more sense that way in English.  I recommend changing the term trophies in game, to that or something similar.

I have to differ on that Tanker - I fully understand Trophy being 'Trophy of War' IIRC the term 'Prize of War' was in 'official' use in the UK Navy by the time of Nelson.  (It may have been earlier)

Historically 'trophy' comes from the Ancient world:- re wikipedia: -
Quote
In ancient Greece and Rome, military victories were commemorated with a display of captured arms and standards. A trophy (from the Greek tropaion) was originally a war memorial assembled from such items on a battlefield. The Roman triumph also displayed these items as well as cultural objects, which later came to be called war trophies. Body parts of slain enemies have sometimes served as trophies since antiquity, in a practice called human trophy collecting. The recovery of Roman eagles taken as trophies by enemy forces sometimes inspired years of added warfare.

Chaska, a MG-42 or a Panzer IV salvaged from the battlefield and used against the enemy by the Soviets is a far cry from a cultural object or enemy body parts paraded through the imperial captial.  Your use of trophy in that instance is correct.  If every weapon captured in the game was paraded through Red Square on May 1, I'd agree that trophies was the best choice.  Google translator has lead GT astray in applying it to captured and reused enemy weapons.  Also you're not writing for people from the time of Nelson, you're writing for modern English speakers.  Take it from me,  it is very strange to use the word trophy in the sense it is being used in the game.  I've been using English for a very long time, almost my whole life ;).


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 17, 2013, 06:58:12 PM
What about "trophy teams", what is the English term for this? And is "gathering of captured equipment" correct? Or maybe it should be "collecting of..."?

Either gathering or collecting would be correct.

The use of the word "of" in that phrase is more subtle.  I can only give examples.

You would say "The soldiers were gathering  enemy weapons after the battle."  You would not say, "The soldiers were gathering "of" enemy weapons after the battle.

Similarly you could say The gathering of weapons was a policy(passive voice) or Gathering weapons was a policy(active voice)

Sorry if I offered an overly complicated answer.  But basically gathered or collected would be correct.

Describe what you mean by "trophy teams".   Are you talking about teams composed of the best members? 


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 17, 2013, 07:00:48 PM
Hi Andrey,

You mentioned as used in the latest GTOS patch but I've never seen the use of captured enemy weapons. Is there a setting to enable this?.

Kind regards

Aces

Edit: Actually I do recall seeing the Russians using captured German halftracks but never noticed any other weapons and small arms.
Its present only if it used in real world (we know) in this place.
In Shilovo Germans are rarely used SVT rifle.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 17, 2013, 07:03:34 PM
I'm far from native english speaker, but I think that trophy is more of a show-off thing that is not meant for actual use. You could say that americans in wwII collected pistols like Luger or swords like katana as trophies, for example.

Better term would indeed be captured weapons/equipment.

Anyway, there's so many bad translations in the game that I wouldn't even notice. With all respect. :)
Here's the problem. The game has two kinds of "trophies" - captured (in statistics), and captured to be used directly for rearmament if needed. The first is called the "captured". How to name the second one (preferably one word)?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 17, 2013, 07:06:39 PM
Describe what you mean by "trophy teams".   Are you talking about teams composed of the best members? 

"трофейная команда" in Russian, soldiers who collect and sort weapons after the battle. This is a temporary organizational structure.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 17, 2013, 07:12:29 PM
I'm far from native english speaker, but I think that trophy is more of a show-off thing that is not meant for actual use. You could say that americans in wwII collected pistols like Luger or swords like katana as trophies, for example.

Better term would indeed be captured weapons/equipment.

Anyway, there's so many bad translations in the game that I wouldn't even notice. With all respect. :)
Here's the problem. The game has two kinds of "trophies" - captured (in statistics), and captured to be used directly for rearmament if needed. The first is called the "captured". How to name the second one (preferably one word)?

Is it a space requirement?  There is not room for more than one word?  If so perhaps consider abbreviations to fit in a multi word description.  Alternately the words salvaged or recovered, while not perfect could describe weapons gathered from the battlefield, but they could be either friendly or enemy.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 17, 2013, 07:13:41 PM
Describe what you mean by "trophy teams".   Are you talking about teams composed of the best members? 

"трофейная команда" in Russian, soldiers who collect and sort weapons after the battle. This is a temporary organizational structure.

Ah, I would say collection or salvage teams.
Edit: Another possibility would be recovery teams.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 17, 2013, 07:33:44 PM
Describe what you mean by "trophy teams".   Are you talking about teams composed of the best members? 

"трофейная команда" in Russian, soldiers who collect and sort weapons after the battle. This is a temporary organizational structure.

Ah, I would say collection or salvage teams.
Edit: Another possibility would be recovery teams.

I think collection is the best.
Salvage and recovery is for "allied trophy"


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 17, 2013, 07:34:42 PM
I'm far from native english speaker, but I think that trophy is more of a show-off thing that is not meant for actual use. You could say that americans in wwII collected pistols like Luger or swords like katana as trophies, for example.

Better term would indeed be captured weapons/equipment.

Anyway, there's so many bad translations in the game that I wouldn't even notice. With all respect. :)
Here's the problem. The game has two kinds of "trophies" - captured (in statistics), and captured to be used directly for rearmament if needed. The first is called the "captured". How to name the second one (preferably one word)?

Is it a space requirement?  There is not room for more than one word?  If so perhaps consider abbreviations to fit in a multi word description.  Alternately the words salvaged or recovered, while not perfect could describe weapons gathered from the battlefield, but they could be either friendly or enemy.
Space (2 words  max  ) and difference for player - one is statistic other can be used.

P.S. I think we can use COLLECTED for second category (captured and sorted by types)?

P.P.S In Russian "trophy" is right word for both: captured tank and reindeer antlers on the wall. And "capture" in most cases is a word for process to get trophy  ;D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 17, 2013, 08:14:42 PM
Hi Andrey,

What about German usage of the much prized PPSh sub-machine guns?, I think that these were used as the Germans preferred the higher magazine capacity. I've seen a few shots of these weapons used by German troops in Normandy as late as 1944 so ammunition couldn't have been so much a problem. I've also seen photographs of German troops in winter using captured Maxim and DP MGs because the oil used didn't freeze and jam like the German MGs in sub-zero temperatures.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Bundesarchiv_Bild_116-168-618%2C_Russland%2C_Kampf_um_Stalingrad%2C_Soldat_mit_MPi.jpg)

(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq273/greershane/German/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-276-0702-33_.jpg)

(http://albumwar2.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/39087-728x472.jpg)

(http://ww2db.com/images/weapon_ppsh41_2.jpg)

(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9278/13920103m13zl.jpg)

(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/42487-2/20080811)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FYrlYpFm4jQ/UC3pmiIkjMI/AAAAAAAADUY/-_sUgDM4dZs/s1600/aaa33.jpg)

(http://www.ppsh41.com/photoptpics/PPSh-41Early.jpg)

(http://img244.echo.cx/img244/6291/dorrkowel235444yg.jpg)

(http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=106495)

Regards

Aces


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Krabb on November 18, 2013, 06:09:36 AM
Either gathering or collecting would be correct.

The use of the word "of" in that phrase is more subtle.  I can only give examples.
Thanks. I mean this sentence: "It is planned to add gathering of trophies by trophy teams after a battle and their subsequent distribution to platoons by the following rules". So, it should be "It is planned to add enemy weapons gathering by collection teams after the battle...", am I correct?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Flanker15 on November 18, 2013, 07:34:03 AM


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FYrlYpFm4jQ/UC3pmiIkjMI/AAAAAAAADUY/-_sUgDM4dZs/s1600/aaa33.jpg)



Regards

Aces

When will this be added to game?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Flanker15 on November 18, 2013, 07:41:52 AM
I'm far from native english speaker, but I think that trophy is more of a show-off thing that is not meant for actual use. You could say that americans in wwII collected pistols like Luger or swords like katana as trophies, for example.

Better term would indeed be captured weapons/equipment.

Anyway, there's so many bad translations in the game that I wouldn't even notice. With all respect. :)
Here's the problem. The game has two kinds of "trophies" - captured (in statistics), and captured to be used directly for rearmament if needed. The first is called the "captured". How to name the second one (preferably one word)?

If it has to be different trophy is fine, captured is the correct term in both cases.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 18, 2013, 08:47:02 AM
Yes, your are absolutely right, the game definitely needs chickens :D. I was trying to work out what was missing from the villages and you've nailed it, come on Andrey WE NEED CHICKENS!! :D



Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on November 18, 2013, 09:01:58 AM
If there will be chickens, I demand that we must be able to booby trap them in case of angry germans like in the pic above. :D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on November 18, 2013, 09:45:43 AM
Either gathering or collecting would be correct.

The use of the word "of" in that phrase is more subtle.  I can only give examples.
Thanks. I mean this sentence: "It is planned to add gathering of trophies by trophy teams after a battle and their subsequent distribution to platoons by the following rules". So, it should be "It is planned to add enemy weapons gathering by collection teams after the battle...", am I correct?

Or maybe

"It is planned to add salvage teams who will gather/collect enemy weapons after a battle" ???


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Void on November 18, 2013, 02:35:11 PM


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FYrlYpFm4jQ/UC3pmiIkjMI/AAAAAAAADUY/-_sUgDM4dZs/s1600/aaa33.jpg)



Regards

Aces



When will this be added to game?

Lol


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: chashka17 on November 18, 2013, 04:46:59 PM
Tanker - the point of Nelson as example is because it establishes a long-term tacit understanding within GB military parlance that prizes/trophies can/will be rapidly redeployed against their former owners.  (That understanding is taught today as a 'Battlefield Expedient'.)
& I am using the GB military as example because they are located in the ancestral home of the English Language.  :P 

You appear to be basing your argument on the fact you speak a form of English.  i.e. your understanding of English Language given the vagaries of personal preference, regional variation, cultural variation, level & type of education & class status.
The problem for me with that is, having known teachers of English Language (at graduate level) in the USA, UK & Russia, I know none of us speaks the same language.  Nor does the average Joe speak the same language as someone at RMA Sandhurst, Dartmouth, West Point or Anapolis etc etc. & 'strangely' enough a German friend writes/speaks some of the most technically excellent English I have seen/heard.


That said, the argument here is not about what is correct per se but about what is generally felt to be comprehensible.
It is probable that the bulk of semi-English-speaking people will understand 'captured' more readily than 'trophies', but for me it isn't as exclusive a term as you appear to believe. 
I agree 'Captured' or 'Captured Equipment/Materiel' covers all angles in both contexts Andrey specifies above.

There is a lot to be learned from the Russian labelling within the game.  But we aren't going to bridge the language gap without a fair bit of mutual cross-referencing.

As regards OF

"It is planned to add gathering of trophies by trophy teams after a battle and their subsequent distribution to platoons by the following rules"
[- I'd swap 'by' for 'using/under/with' etc depending on what is coming next.]
vs
"It is planned to add enemy weapons gathering by collection teams after the battle"
Both are "correct" insofar as they are intelligible, but the second flows better & faster.
Personally I would have used:
'Gathering of enemy weapons by collection teams after a battle is planned.'

I think English is inherently reductive in nature, so the whole of the text can be further changed to link & precis all the elements accurately & maximize info vs space/time to read.

As far as I'm concerned Krabbe is correct in his use of 'OF'.  Whilst what you say is true, it doesn't allow for the way English is taught to foreign language speakers nor the reasons for words like 'of' which may seem superfluous in 'modern colloquial' speech.
If you are writing a paper (or a legal document), academia expects the clauses & sub-clauses to be incontrovertibly defined.  Thus whilst you can drop the odd word  in the spoken tongue, 'formal' documents don't tend to look on the subsequent possibility of ambiguity with leniency.
Krabbes' English is good but he doesn't have the kind of incisive understanding of nuance a native speaker may have.  For him, he might not see a clausal difference without extra sign-posts.  (The same goes for me when reading something other than English or when looking at legal stuff ).
Teaching someone to use what appears to be an archaic form helps in the long-term scheme of comprehension & clause/sub-clause deployment.

I would not expect 'Trophy team' to appear in English in the same way as it does in Russian.  But the Cyrillic language has links to Greek, & the Russian importation of a Greek concept that is still used as it was in Ancient times is entirely logical.

I do frequently hear 'trophy' used correctly on US TV - in shows like Criminal Minds.  The overall context is different but it is as it 'always' was - the removal of some token from someone the 'victor' has killed.   ;)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 18, 2013, 05:19:07 PM
Either gathering or collecting would be correct.

The use of the word "of" in that phrase is more subtle.  I can only give examples.
Thanks. I mean this sentence: "It is planned to add gathering of trophies by trophy teams after a battle and their subsequent distribution to platoons by the following rules". So, it should be "It is planned to add enemy weapons gathering by collection teams after the battle...", am I correct?

Or maybe

"It is planned to add salvage teams who will gather/collect enemy weapons after a battle" ???


Yes lavish, your phrase would be better.  I suggest, "We plan to add collection teams to recover enemy weapons after the battle and distribute them to friendly platoons according to the following rules."


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 18, 2013, 05:42:34 PM
Chaska your post is very long and I did read it quickly.

Trophy or prizes, in English, has a uniquely 18th century maritime connotation to it.  Or a Roman Triumph following the defeat of a barbarian foe connotation.  There are enough cultural differences between Russia and the English speaking countries that the word trophy will have a different meaning, especially when referring to 20th century events and modern audiences.

I think that we can agree that in colloquial English, whether as spoken in England or in the US, the term "trophy" is less appropriate than "captured enemy weapons" for the meaning that the devs are trying to convey.  British readers can address whether I'm correct in my assessment as far as Britain goes. 

I don't wish to get into a scholarly debate over the finer points of English.  I think that my suggestions regarding trophy and the use of the word "of" improve the understanding of the game's text for English speaking people, where ever they may be from.  That's my only purpose for suggesting the corrections.



Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 18, 2013, 05:46:31 PM
As a Brit "It is planned to add salvage teams who will gather/collect enemy weapons after a battle" is how I would say it.

I've never used the term "trophy" in all my life in that context in UK English, a Sport Trophy, A trophy in the context of a souvenir yes, as another way of saying "captured enemy weapons" for usage as opposed to hanging on a wall or putting in a "trophy" cabinet no.

Regards

Aces


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 18, 2013, 05:51:31 PM
Yes, I agree Aces.  When I first saw it used that way in a Kharkov 42 scenario, the image of collecting enemy ears or teeth, (which did happen in WW2) sprang to mind.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 18, 2013, 06:07:11 PM
Soldiers brought "trophies" home after the wars, flags, weapons and various other items. I'd use the term souvenirs in this context but I think that the term trophies, particularly in US English could be used instead in this context and I think that that is the issue. Not that it's a big one at all really but I suspect that in Russian the terms is used like this in the context of captured and used enemy weapons. It is just a translation issue. I'd love to see enemy small arms used in realistic numbers.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 18, 2013, 06:26:39 PM
I think souvenirs would be the most used term here in the US also.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 18, 2013, 07:00:55 PM
In one of my Steel Fury mods I armed one of the German Panzergrenadiers with a PPSh.

(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/1802/hfc5.jpg)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on November 18, 2013, 07:21:24 PM
He'll be the envy of his mates. :D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 18, 2013, 07:56:09 PM
Specially with a 71 round drum magazine :D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 21, 2013, 08:36:06 PM
Under rain
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3865970/Re_GTMF_Graviteam_Tactics_Mius#Post3865970


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Void on November 21, 2013, 09:16:17 PM
Nice, nice! moooore screenshots! .....and release date please ;)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Lemonade on November 22, 2013, 12:34:05 AM
I knew it! I knew it! Finally! Vehicles that get wet from the rain! :D
I was waiting for it for a long, long time. I even remember Andrey's post in which he mentions that GT considers adding alternate specular maps for rainy weather!
However I have a question. Will the specular map swap be gradual or instantaneous after first drops of rain hit our vehicles?

It might not be crucial for gameplay, but sure is for immersion and video recording! :)
Thanks!


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 22, 2013, 05:54:17 AM
I knew it! I knew it! Finally! Vehicles that get wet from the rain! :D
I was waiting for it for a long, long time. I even remember Andrey's post in which he mentions that GT considers adding alternate specular maps for rainy weather!

In GTOS this feature present about half year. Little bit another tech but the same thing.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Lemonade on November 22, 2013, 03:23:15 PM
Ah, I dont have the latest patch installed. That's probably why I didn't notice it. :)
I need to install it ASAP.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 24, 2013, 11:58:49 AM
All pics
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.590970197628925.1073741828.590904460968832&type=1


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Xambrium on November 25, 2013, 04:24:55 PM
hmm, "Das Reich" Campaign in Mius?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on November 25, 2013, 05:18:39 PM
I thought the Mius Front game was going to be about the battles in July,not the ones in August when the 2 SS divisions counterattacked over the same map area depicted.

I would like to have some campaigns for the SS counter attacks too though. 8)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on November 27, 2013, 12:19:04 PM
Is it just me or does everything look a little too shiny in those screens?

I hope to see some more winter battles personally.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Krabb on November 27, 2013, 12:43:02 PM
https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/posts/627531763972768


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on November 27, 2013, 12:51:36 PM
I think the shiny look is a visual graphic to display the idea of being wet and show off the rainy look.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on November 27, 2013, 01:14:25 PM
Quote
I hope to see some more winter battles personally.

I'm glad we have more variety in all seasons to choose from.

The Winter maps though are still my favorite and I too would like to see more Winter battles than Summer in the future for this series.
The Winter maps are also easier to run on my PC.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: hamrock on November 27, 2013, 08:11:08 PM
Apologies if I've already missed this. :) Is this a separate game or DLC for APOS?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 27, 2013, 08:41:05 PM
A new game that they are developing.

Cheers

Aces


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on November 27, 2013, 09:49:38 PM
If your familiar with APOS/GTOS this won't really seem like a new game,but more like some new added features and enhancements from what we have now with GTOS/APOS along with a new base to expand from.

Sort of a new beginning and rebirth minus all the things that didn't work all that great in the older game while exploring some newer ideas and fresh concepts with the more up to date PC technology and incorporating it into the future line up of the new series.

GTOS/APOS has become a little bloated and dated.
Mius Front will be fresher and new and able to take advantage of the more current advances in PC technology.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on November 27, 2013, 11:07:30 PM
Well I have money in hand and am just waiting for the word to jump. These Graviteam boys have already sold me on their products. There is no equal.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: hamrock on November 28, 2013, 10:20:13 AM
Thanks Dane,

Now that is really interesting, actually quite excited by this concept. I am getting back into APOS after playing the other game!  They both have their strengths and weaknesses, the uniforms without Nightpostman's mods are a bit of a low. but hearing this is definite  good news.

Thanks for the update.

Hamrock


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on November 28, 2013, 03:40:25 PM
Small vid
http://youtu.be/a_3QrZLXtTg


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 28, 2013, 03:46:08 PM
Stunning Andrey et. al.!!, thank you for that.

Love the mud and the towed guns. Can wheeled vehicles etc. get stuck in mud or water sodden ground?. What's missing are puddles :)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Muddy_puddle_on_Drake_Lane_-_geograph.org.uk_-_230217.jpg)

Mius just gets better and better, great work. I'm getting increasingly excited by what I'm seeing, really looking forward to release.

Kind regards

Aces


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: hamrock on November 28, 2013, 06:06:03 PM
Very impressive, I want one of those tractors. :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lockie on November 28, 2013, 07:30:16 PM
Small vid
http://youtu.be/a_3QrZLXtTg
Can't help myself to say that I saw a promo-video of SFII :) Music is quite identical and units reminds me smth. very similar. I like it ;) But of course, it's completely the other game, which has nothing common with SF.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on November 29, 2013, 09:34:52 AM
Hi chaps,

A nice picture of Light artillery tractor T-20 Komsomolez towing a gun, note the limber on the 45mm AT gun.

(http://ww2photo.se/tanks/su/tractor/09036%20.jpg)

and a page with some interesting info and pictures:

http://www.o5m6.de/komsomolez.html (http://www.o5m6.de/komsomolez.html)

I love interesting, non-glamorous early-war vehicles in particular. Amongst these is the Horch type 108 types 1A and 40 (like a kubelwagon on steroids :))that you sadly rarely see modelled:

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120106122940/medalofhonor/images/d/d8/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-158-0094-35,_Balkan,_PKW_der_Leibstandarte_Adolf_Hitler.jpg)

Seen above in the Balkans in 1942 also towing an AT gun.

and another of my favourite vehicles, the Kettenkrad, this one's the wire laying version:

(http://www.kettenkrad.de/bilder/img116.jpg)

Cheers

Aces







Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Void on November 29, 2013, 01:16:18 PM
Nice video. thanks


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on December 03, 2013, 07:18:04 AM
So, will I be able to run the dlc's I have under the new engine? I was just about to pull the trigger and buy a couple from Gamersgate, but if they will become obsolete, why bother?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on December 03, 2013, 09:07:06 AM
So, will I be able to run the dlc's I have under the new engine? I was just about to pull the trigger and buy a couple from Gamersgate, but if they will become obsolete, why bother?
Hard to say now.
At first it is not clear when the new engine will appear.
At second GamersGate not have clear option to sold one item for two or more different games.
At third in Mius will be a summer season, some DLCs look strange at summer.

But we plan leisurely adaptation for DLCs to new tech after Mius release.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on December 03, 2013, 09:39:26 AM
.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on December 03, 2013, 03:29:52 PM
Finally got it to go through.

Bought Volokonovka 1942 again because I had stat first version and wanted the updated one. I also bought Shilovo 1942 from them. The problem is that Volo shows up in my library but it is prompting me to gift Shilovo, even though I never chose to have it as a gift.

edit  looks like it may be a misunderstanding on my part.

update; Michael in their help department was very quick to resolve the issue.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on December 03, 2013, 04:36:13 PM
Not sure if you know this, but the pic used for the gamersgate site for Shilovo has it as Shilovo 1969 on the smaller one. FYI


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on December 03, 2013, 05:16:46 PM
Suggestion to GT:

Make or have made tutorial videos like Panther Games made for it's Command Ops series of games.  If a picture is worth 1000 words a movie is worth a billion.  It made understanding the game system very accessible and quick to pick up.

What mystifies me the most is the operational phase of the game, the resupplying, and transferring equipment etc.  I really don't find a comprehensive and easily understood source for that.  I think tutorial videos would help.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on December 04, 2013, 03:40:26 PM
If a picture is worth 1000 words a movie is worth a billion. 
You know Russian or Ukrainian language? :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on December 04, 2013, 03:50:53 PM
not as well as I'd like to Andrey :D :D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on December 04, 2013, 04:55:42 PM
If a picture is worth 1000 words a movie is worth a billion. 
You know Russian or Ukrainian language? :)


Unfortunately not.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on December 04, 2013, 05:45:56 PM
This forum has taught me quite a bit Ukrainglish :D

Just joking :D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on December 04, 2013, 07:27:09 PM
If a picture is worth 1000 words a movie is worth a billion. 
You know Russian or Ukrainian language? :)


Unfortunately not.

That's it. And developers, unfortunately, do not know other languages ​​on level to tell something in the video.
With the advices is better to be careful.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on December 04, 2013, 10:11:41 PM
Ah, but to make a suggestion does not require that I know Russian or Ukrainian.  If you think the suggestion is good you can make the video in Russian and also attempt to find someone to do it, in English, for example.  There might even be people here in the forum that are expert enough in the game that could voice over a video made in Russian or Ukrainian.  I'll bet a google translation of a video script in Russian could be a good foundation for an English speaking person to make a voice over.

It is better to be careful when rejecting suggestions too quickly. ;)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on December 05, 2013, 08:14:23 AM
Ah, but to make a suggestion does not require that I know Russian or Ukrainian.  If you think the suggestion is good you can make the video in Russian and also attempt to find someone to do it, in English, for example.  There might even be people here in the forum that are expert enough in the game that could voice over a video made in Russian or Ukrainian.  I'll bet a google translation of a video script in Russian could be a good foundation for an English speaking person to make a voice over.

It is better to be careful when rejecting suggestions too quickly. ;)

Nothing prevents to make such videos without developers in English, but as you can see them not created now. Let's look at things realistically, the maximum that can be achieved is the in-game texts and some equivalent of an in-game assistant in English.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: SSPEIPER on December 17, 2013, 06:22:26 AM
How about some more screens......Some panthers might be nice... ;D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Fritz on December 17, 2013, 12:43:13 PM
Quote
How about some more screens......

Like this?  ::)

(http://cs425225.vk.me/v425225048/511a/pIiBpDmwGaA.jpg)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on December 17, 2013, 06:03:06 PM
What is this and what the hell is that robot thing? For all the beauty and artistic value in their games, the setup screens are very lacking imo.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on December 17, 2013, 06:37:05 PM
Looks like a way to set up a head to head internet game.

Look utilitarian to me.  That's fine. That's all you need in this screen, as long as the meaning if the icons is clear and unambiguous.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on December 17, 2013, 07:52:13 PM
Or to battle robots Termninator stylee! :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on December 17, 2013, 08:12:28 PM
...
(http://i.imgur.com/ddb0OQ6.jpg)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on December 17, 2013, 11:05:10 PM
Oh man oh man oh man. This is so good.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: murkz on December 18, 2013, 07:37:47 AM
That does make me happy to see, thank you Andrey and the team.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Flashburn on December 18, 2013, 08:19:01 AM
I like the robot.....


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: hamrock on December 18, 2013, 01:11:29 PM
All very well, but when????


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Soldat-Hans on December 20, 2013, 09:23:46 PM
Will it be possible to create own army groups in the quick battle menu? (creating weaponry for infantry, creating the size of units, (1-20 tanks and so on))


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on December 21, 2013, 08:05:34 AM
Will it be possible to create own army groups in the quick battle menu? (creating weaponry for infantry, creating the size of units, (1-20 tanks and so on))
Game operates with battalion sized max. No regiments, divisions or armies.
1-20 tanks is tank platoon, company or battalion, not army :)
Army is 500-1000 tanks and 20 000 - 50 000 people - game dont support such quantities in tactical (quick) battles.

You can make any group size from platoon up to battalion (in some cases up to regiment).

P.S. "creating weaponry for infantry" - dont understand.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Soldat-Hans on December 21, 2013, 10:34:44 PM
P.S. "creating weaponry for infantry" - dont understand.

I meant if it is possible to equip the infantry units (the amount of smgs, rifles and mgs a squad has)?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Santini on December 23, 2013, 06:53:44 PM
A "quick campaign" generator would be pretty cool.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on December 23, 2013, 08:45:17 PM
Will the robot be in the OOB?  Can troops ride on/in the robot? How many T-34's can the robot carry at one time? Does the robot feel?

Merry Christmas. Stay free Ukraine. It's worth fighting for.

WooHoo 100 post. And I havent said a damn thing worth repeating.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on December 23, 2013, 11:47:50 PM
And I havent said a damn thing worth repeating.

Wrong.  You said that.





J/K Sorry I couldn't help myself.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Missouri_Rebel on December 24, 2013, 01:17:26 AM
Now you, Sir, have insulted my honor and the family good name. You are hereby and henceforth challenged to a game of Mius Front to be settled at a time when Gentlemen can agree.

mo reb


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on December 24, 2013, 03:59:40 AM
Now you, Sir, have insulted my honor and the family good name. You are hereby and henceforth challenged to a game of Mius Front to be settled at a time when Gentlemen can agree.

mo reb

I accept that challenge, when and if GT makes available the dueling pistols, my good man.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Santini on December 30, 2013, 10:48:00 PM
Oooo, you know what would be the perfect conflict for the next game after Mius?

The South Ossetia war. Perfect scale :-)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Krabb on January 07, 2014, 06:16:31 PM
Mius-Front new placement and visibility checks features
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.648119878580623.1073741833.590904460968832&type=1


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on January 07, 2014, 07:15:35 PM
Simply superb. This is a very welcome addition to speed up unit deployment.

I suppose that LOS is calculated for horizontal x,y-plane? Or is the LOS-plane tilted to be parallel to the ground at each square (i.e. ground normal perpendicular to the LOS-plane)?
But how much LOS-range each sector line present? I guess each blue line present quantized LOS of 500m?

p.s. I hope Mius will also solve the problem with unit "combat value" indication (the black dots on unit icons). I really don't want to cycle through each unit to deduce their actual combat value. Maybe it would be better to calculate combat value as an absolute number (in a similiar manner as AT-capacity is calculated) instead of relative? This would make it FAST to compare units and evaluate their value during deployment and battle.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 07, 2014, 08:11:03 PM
I suppose that LOS is calculated for horizontal x,y-plane?
LOS calculated as LOS, from one point to another in 3D space.


I guess each blue line present quantized LOS of 500m?
dark blue: less than 25 (no sector) le 100, le 500
light blue: le 1000,  more than 1500


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on January 07, 2014, 09:53:51 PM
Finding good deployment spots has always been a time consuming and faintly annoying job.  Anything that will make that easier is great.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 07, 2014, 11:12:22 PM
Finding good deployment spots has always been a time consuming and faintly annoying job.  Anything that will make that easier is great.

We will make great efforts to it was as simple and fast. For both manual and automatic setup.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on January 08, 2014, 04:51:14 AM
Do 4 blue lines to the north, for example, mean that from that square the los to the north is more than 1500m without obstruction?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 08, 2014, 09:15:58 AM
Do 4 blue lines to the north, for example, mean that from that square the los to the north is more than 1500m without obstruction?
Yes, showed max dist to 0.5 m up point from source point. Also you can change source up.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on January 08, 2014, 09:16:42 AM
I suppose that LOS is calculated for horizontal x,y-plane?
LOS calculated as LOS, from one point to another in 3D space.
Yes, true LOS is 3D, but the player can only see 2D blue sector lines (projection like indication) on the squares.  How are these blue sector lines determined? I guess it's not a projection of full 3D-data, but more like an imprint of LOS calculation in a plane (plane = slice of 3D space towards certain direction http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Right_hand_cartesian.svg) or of a projection of a 3D-sector data.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 08, 2014, 01:41:01 PM
Not quite
http://imgur.com/YOQJXp1

Shows the maximum view distance with a given height in the field of discrete measurements on uneven scale.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Aces on January 08, 2014, 01:52:52 PM
Blimey!! :D

Time I put that Science Degree into some use :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on January 10, 2014, 07:21:11 PM
Not quite
http://imgur.com/YOQJXp1

Shows the maximum view distance with a given height in the field of discrete measurements on uneven scale.

Yes, this is what I meant with "a projection of a 3D-sector data" (which is made by a set of discrete measurements in practice). Glad to hear this feature is so well executed!

I also liked this one: http://i.imgur.com/3awAzEw.jpg. I interpret the picture so that invidual LOS is now visualized for every crewmember in the vehicle. Though not that useful on uneven ground, I think it's an interesting demonstration of vehicle viewports/LOS modeled in the game.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Krabb on January 13, 2014, 11:53:26 PM
Artificial intelligence versus human! (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/artificial-intelligence-versus-human/651129698279641)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on January 14, 2014, 03:54:09 AM
They'll pull those stugs out of the swamp in 70 years. ;D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on January 15, 2014, 11:18:20 AM
New LOS-tool, verrrry nice.

Can't say about AI though, because real good AI is adaptive in multiple situations. But in this case I can see that AI can do its job properly, so good work.  :)

Oh, how about orders in Mius? What is changed/removed and how it's gonna work compared to GTOS?

They'll pull those stugs out of the swamp in 70 years. ;D
Sorry, not enough turns.  ;D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Flanker15 on January 15, 2014, 03:15:14 PM
I was wondering if the patching process for Mius front was being cleaned up?
Towards the end of OpStar it got real messy with dlcs breaking each other and stuff.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 15, 2014, 03:37:09 PM
Oh, how about orders in Mius? What is changed/removed and how it's gonna work compared to GTOS?
in plans:
1) block "idiot-orders" possibility
2) penalties for bad orders and compare for AI orders chain after battle (may be affects for results)
3) expand and easy in-game any time modding for order tools

in plans yes
Now we remove bad things from game, like mini-map, squad icons, menu panels, etc.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 15, 2014, 03:39:57 PM
I was wondering if the patching process for Mius front was being cleaned up?
Towards the end of OpStar it got real messy with dlcs breaking each other and stuff.

more or less. Day patchs for Mius from nov13 installs like Windows extensions ->Explorer/Install


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on January 15, 2014, 05:16:03 PM
Oh, how about orders in Mius? What is changed/removed and how it's gonna work compared to GTOS?
Now we remove bad things from game, like mini-map, etc.

What will replace the information now available on the mini map? 


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on January 15, 2014, 05:52:02 PM
Oh, how about orders in Mius? What is changed/removed and how it's gonna work compared to GTOS?
Now we remove bad things from game, like mini-map, etc.

What will replace the information now available on the mini map? 

F10 ;D


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 15, 2014, 08:28:08 PM
What will replace the information now available on the mini map? 
Map, or 3d view


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Tanker on January 16, 2014, 01:47:42 AM
@lavish what does F10 show?

@Andrey how is mini map "bad"?


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 16, 2014, 08:17:45 AM
@lavish what does F10 show?

map

@Andrey how is mini map "bad"?

It covers part of 3D view w/o appreciable profit.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Santini on January 16, 2014, 10:00:08 AM
@Andrey how is mini map "bad"?

It covers part of 3D view w/o appreciable profit.

Seems like a good feature to make optional - I like clicking on the minimap to move the camera


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 16, 2014, 11:02:26 AM
@Andrey how is mini map "bad"?

It covers part of 3D view w/o appreciable profit.

Seems like a good feature to make optional - I like clicking on the minimap to move the camera

Mini map will be removed.
Optional between no and no. Sorry



Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on January 16, 2014, 02:24:09 PM
IMO, minimap was kinda useless anyway... I especially hate it in shooter games - you always have to keep one of your eyes on it.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on January 16, 2014, 03:48:01 PM
I won't miss it.
I have it disabled in my game now and usually just reference the the other map.
The mini map was an eye sore and visual distraction when playing on the 3D map.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 16, 2014, 05:26:00 PM
It will be a few different game than APOS/GTOS and correspondingly there are several other tools.
We make it even more hardcore and realistic in terms of simulation, but... softer to the players in terms of ingame tools and interfaces.
As an ideal - maximum realism with a human face. Plus an ability to visually check the different aspects of the game by player.

For example visibility - you can see what smoke from shot or dust from wheels hiding somthing for some time, etc. Or example armor penetration besides regular statistics and diagrams will be right in the game in real time displayed why the weapon penetrate the target (or not penetrate). All of course will count the game itself.

But somthing "old tools" will be removed or replaced by new ones. For example - squad icons->section icons, LOS -> removed, ALOS -> new modern ALOS, LOF -> Advanced LOF, events table -> events chain, green squares->LOF markers on the ground+immediate auto placement and more more.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: wodin on January 16, 2014, 05:49:31 PM
Sometimes find it hard to follow the info on the new features\changes. I just can't wait for a release to see it myself:)

One thing will we be getting a multi region release at the same time this time? I hope we don't have to wait like we did for a English version of GTOS.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 16, 2014, 07:18:02 PM
Sometimes find it hard to follow the info on the new features\changes. I just can't wait for a release to see it myself:)

Last pictures in this FB page
https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam

One thing will we be getting a multi region release at the same time this time? I hope we don't have to wait like we did for a English version of GTOS.

Eng/Rus - both standard locales for game, it will be multi-language like last DLCs for GTOS - in one pack (x86/x64 + Rus/Eng) - autodetect on install.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: wodin on January 16, 2014, 08:06:07 PM
Andrey what I'm asking is if the English version will be released at the same time as the Russian version..or will we have to wait like we did with APOS?

Sounds like it will all be released at the same time which is great news.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 16, 2014, 08:59:54 PM
Andrey what I'm asking is if the English version will be released at the same time as the Russian version..or will we have to wait like we did with APOS?

Sounds like it will all be released at the same time which is great news.
As I say we dont plan separate versions. One version for both locales, and yes, released in same time :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: lavish on January 17, 2014, 03:03:29 PM
We make it even more hardcore and realistic in terms of simulation
:-*

softer to the players in terms of ingame tools and interfaces.
:-* :-*

As an ideal - maximum realism with a human face. Plus an ability to visually check the different aspects of the game by player.
:-* :-* :-*

For example visibility - you can see what smoke from shot or dust from wheels hiding somthing for some time, etc.
:-* :-* :-* :-*

Or example armor penetration besides regular statistics and diagrams will be right in the game in real time displayed why the weapon penetrate the target (or not penetrate).
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

All of course will count the game itself.
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

But somthing "old tools" will be removed or replaced by new ones. For example - squad icons->section icons, LOS -> removed, ALOS -> new modern ALOS, LOF -> Advanced LOF, events table -> events chain, green squares->LOF markers on the ground+immediate auto placement and more more.
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* ???



Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 17, 2014, 06:15:18 PM
If have enough strength, I made ​​a short movie and show some new utility in action.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 22, 2014, 06:34:52 PM
Detailed description for a number of new features in GTMF (in Russian).
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=81577

Maybe someone will translate?  ;)  ::)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on January 23, 2014, 03:19:19 AM
Here's my take, with the help of Google Translate. Note that I'm here paraphrasing what you're saying Andrey, maybe too liberally. Sentence structure in Russian is quite different at times from that of English or Latin languages, and the kind of word-by-word translation you get from Google doesn't make much sense.

LOS/LOF visual aids

Quote
Помощь в определении видимости при расстановке Первое что можно заметить - пропали зеленые квадратики, и им на смену пришли хитрые сегментированные стрелки, которые показывают как далеко видно в 8 направлениях из каждой клетки, где можно установить юнитов. Чем больше синих сегментов тем дальше видно. Игра позволяет смотреть (переключение идет в реалтайме мгновенно) с 3х разных высот, условно: танк (2м), присевший солдат (1м) и лежачий солдат/вид из окопа (25 см). Стуги будут расположены в окопе, поэтому выберем соответствующую высоту кнопкой сверху Обратите внимание дальности в этом случае существенно сократились. Следующее нововведение - возможность автоматической расстановки выбранных юнитов. Работает она следующим образом: 1) Выбрать соответствующую высоту (это мы уже сделали ранее). 2) Нужно расставить юниты приблизительно в тех местах где вы хотите чтобы они заняли оборону и указать им нужное направление. 3) Выбрать юниты, которые надо расставить. 3) Нажать кнопку на панельке внизу: После этого игра мгновенно подберет им наилучшие места в небольшом радиусе, в которых обеспечивается следующее: 1) видимость по текущему направлению и соседним (слева и справа - это необязательно) максимальная; 2) видимость со стороны бортов и задней проекции - минимальная; 3) направление сохраняется. Что мы можем увидеть на картинке По прежнему можно расставлять все вручную не пользуясь никакими автоматическими утилитами.

We've replaced the green squares we used in Operation Star to encode how far your units can see when placed in one action spot, by segmented arrows pointing in each of the compass directions. The more segments are displayed along a particular direction, the farther the unit can see (NOTE: not sure if the hue is encoding important info or not, as being LOS partially obstructed). You can check out visibility by setting three spotting heights corresponding to:

1) Spotter on a tank turret (2 meters) (NOTE: this height depends on the AFV model?)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173505&d=1390005101

2) Spotter is crouching (1 meter)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173506&d=1390005113

3) Spotter is prone or in a foxhole or trench (25cm)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173507&d=1390005126

(Question: I think you mixed up the screenshots, as the screenshot for 1) and 3) shows the same setting being selected).

Stugs will be dug-in (?), so choose an appropriate height through the button on the top bar. Note how ranges significantly decrease.

The next feature is that of deploying automatically selected units. It works in the following way:

1) Set the 'spotter height' setting (as we did previously) to what makes sense (i.e. when deploying a StuG, the 'tank turret' setting)

2) Place your units in the general vicinity of the area you want them to be deployed in, and specify the desired facing.

3) Select the units you wish to be automatically deployed

4) Press the button in the bottom panel

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173508&d=1390005138

The engine will determine the best location within a small radius (Question: How small?), so that:

1) Visibility is maximized along the front of the vehicle or unit. Optionally, you can require the engine to factor in visibility to the flanks of the unit.

2) Minimize the exposure of the rear and flank aspects of the unit.

3) Comply with the facing given by the player.

As shown in this picture

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173508&d=1390005138

you can still set it manually, and override the decisions made by the engine.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on January 23, 2014, 03:37:11 AM
Quote
На скриншоте хорошо видно что у стуга максимальная дальность видимости весьма велика, но есть мертвая зона на средней дистанции. Смотрим что видит второй стуг Видим что в двух направлениях с длинными синими стрелками видно достаточно далеко. Теперь проверим что видно в обратную сторону и действительно ли стуг скрыт от наблюдения Как видим за исключением небольшой области рядом весь ландшафт окрашен в красный цвет и с высокой вероятностью дальше 100 метров с тыла и фланга нас не заметят. Это понятное дело тривиальный вариант, в следующий раз я покажу более интересные места, где выбор клеток для расстановки не так прост для человека.

We've improved the way the field of view of units is represented, to make easier to assess how well we have deployed our units. By selecting the button in the bottom panel (Note: the one with the three 'waves' on top a tank)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173509&d=1390005821

you get a depiction of the area the unit can see from its current location, without taking into account possible obstacles (such as smoke or dust clouds) that only arise when the simulation is running. The less intensely shaded is a spot, the more likely is that the unit spot enemy units in that particular spot. Here we don't get an explicit sense of the maximum spotting range, but rather of what units can actually see. In the screenshot above, we can see that the Stug location allows to dominate well the hill in front of it, but it - as expected - can't see anything in the gully nor the reverse slope of the hill it is standing on. Note that the nearby Stug is blocking line of sight. Yet the range arrows indicate that the maximum spotting range in that direction is quite high outside of the blind spot induced by the second Stug.

Selecting the second StuG

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173510&d=1390005829

we can see how the field of view changes. Rotating the camera we can check how well the StuG spots towards its rear and flanks

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173511&d=1390005838

In this particular case, it's quite easy to determine without this tool what can be spotted, but we find it very helpful in more complex and ambiguous situations.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on January 23, 2014, 03:53:45 AM
Quote
Расстановка в "плохих" условиях.

На скриншоте видна деревня на этапе расстановки Как и в Звезде, можно увидеть: 1) Внешние квадраты оранжевого и красного цветов, которые показывают места где нельзя вырыть окопы и нельзя ставить технику (красный цвет), они обрабатываются специальным образом на дальних дистанциях, таким образом чтобы области проблемной расстановки были заметны издалека. 2) Внутренние квадраты разных цветов, которые интегральный показывают уровень скрытности квадратика (зеленый самый лучший). Посмотрим на зеленый квадратик вблизи Несмотря на то что скрытность обеспечивается весьма хорошо, одновременно видно что и обнаружить противника и как следствие вести по нему огонь из такого квадратика затруднительно.

Automatic deployment taking into account LOS area

This screenshot depicts the deployment phase in a village

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173583&d=1390210867

As in Operation Star, the colour of the border of a square lets you know whether the selected unit can't be dug-in in that terrain (orange) or placed (red). The colour of the inner square lets you know how exposed will be the unit in that particular location (where green means the unit will be hidden from view, orange means it will be partially exposed, and when the square has no colour it means it will be fully exposed).

Let's take a close look at one of the locations reported to conceal the selected unit

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173584&d=1390210882

Quote
Поставим стуг в такой квадратик и проверим это Как видно вокруг красная зона и скорее всего техника размещенная в этом месте никого не заметит. Нажмем кнопку авторасстановки и посмотрим куда игра переместит стуг Направление сохранилось, борта закрыты и видно относительно далеко в основном направлении.

Let me show you how the automated deployment routine works in this constricted environment, by placing a StuG in that spot

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173587&d=1390211321

it can't see much of use. By clicking on the auto-deployment button the StuG gets deployed a short distance to the right of the location we had put it

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173588&d=1390211331

and note that the StuG can now spot some stuff at a distance, along the direction we had originally specified.

Stug deliver in such a box and check it As can be seen around the red zone and likely placement techniques in this place no one will notice. avtorasstanovki Press the button and see where the game moves stug Direction preserved, the board closed and seen relatively far in the main direction.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on January 23, 2014, 04:01:41 AM
Let's see how this feature works in slightly more difficult conditions

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173589&d=1390211575

clicking on the auto-deployment moves the StuG two squares forward

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173591&d=1390211600

where the visibility is much better

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173592&d=1390211609

Note that the visibility range estimation depicted by the segmented blue arrows is quite pessimistic, and at times won't agree with the FOV tool.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on January 23, 2014, 04:09:06 AM
Tank crew sighting display

Another new feature is a tool that depicts how well the crew of a tank can spot through the sights installed in it. For example, in the picture below

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173629&d=1390414477

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173627&d=1390414452

we can see what openings offer optimal sighting conditions (blue cones) and others are just adequate (gray cones). If the sight was blocked, we would get a red cone.

These are the visibility cones for a StuG

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173628&d=1390414466

The visibility cones are only shown when the crew is going to use them for sighting

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173630&d=1390414632

in the image above, where the StuG is unbuttoned, we only get to see the sighting conditions for the driver.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on January 23, 2014, 04:15:17 AM
The display of these visibility cones change depending on the tank crew current occupation or status. For instance, if the vehicle is stationary, then the driver can look to the sides of the vehicle (rather than keeping his eyes on the direction he's driving)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173632&d=1390414684

when the loader is loading a round for firing, he's not lookin anywhere

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173633&d=1390414694

if the gunner is firing at a target, he'll be looking in the direction of the target

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173634&d=1390414704

When the crew suffer losses (either death or serious injury) the degradation in the spotting ability becomes apparent

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173636&d=1390414867

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173635&d=1390414854

as there's nobody available to look through a particular opening or periscope.




Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Bletchley_Geek on January 23, 2014, 05:07:40 AM
Let me make a couple questions/remarks which have probably been asked/made:

  • You guys really need to find someone (possibly a volunteer) that helps you with in-game translations and community management in general. I can imagine that finding a native Russian speaker who's fluent in English and has an interest in wargaming can be hard. But this is holding your awesome engine back.
  • I am very happy to see you guys continue going down the path of making more transparent to the player stuff like how well do tank crews perceive their environment. The UI streamlining looks good, yet I wonder what happened to the Order of Battle browser we used to get on the right hand side of the UI. I found that invaluable to reach quickly my units. The elimination of the Minimap on the other hand is quite logical, since the 2D map view of GTOS was extremely functional (I particularly liked that one could give orders "by the map").
  • I do like a lot tanks, and GTOS tank model is excellent. Nonetheless, I wasn't so happy with the infantry model - or at least, in the way the engine choice of animations to convey to the player what his troops are doing. In a way, GTOS was very similar to Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord, where the emphasis was in the tanks and the infantry was a bit of a window dresser.
  • One of my biggest grips with GTOS was that the units' orders being executed weren't displayed at all or clearly on the user interface. For instance, there was no way to see where I had sent units as I'm unable to retain details like 'I sent those guys to house B or house C' after some time has passed. Maybe this has changed in the latest patches, though.
  • I see you've referred a few times to 'sections' in some of your posts. Does this mean we can split squads into sections / teams? That would be very nice  :)


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: Dane49 on January 23, 2014, 04:25:36 PM
Nice job with the translations but I wouldn't count on any micro managing of troops in the future of this game.
Most likely the exact opposite since more units and larger battles seem to be where the game is headed.
Andrey is pretty much dead set against giving the player too much control of units in this game.

You can still see where your troops have been ordered by selecting certain features in the game currently and the latest uniform mod by Nightpostman looks good for the infantry also.

Not sure about splitting squads,I think you will be able to select teams and hopefully 1/2 squads to simulate casualties instead of squads when creating your platoons during set up for QBs or during the Op Phase in campaigns.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 23, 2014, 05:24:27 PM
Andrey is pretty much dead set against giving the player too much control of units in this game.

You are totally right :)

MM is a worse thing in games.


Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
Post by: andrey12345 on January 23, 2014, 05:28:35 PM
    • One of my biggest grips with GTOS was that the units' orders being executed weren't displayed at all or clearly on the user interface. For instance, there was no way to see where I had sent units as I'm unable to retain details like 'I sent those guys to house B or house C' after some time has passed. Maybe this has changed in the latest patches, though.
    Will be some steps in this direction too.
    Use tactical info indicator - they shows paths and orders. And delay order (RMB on stop button) in GTOS.


    • I see you've referred a few times to 'sections' in some of your posts. Does this mean we can split squads into sections / teams? That would be very nice  :)

    Of course no split, no divide, no micromanage - only add, integrate or multiply. But in GTMF you can use sections in one click manner, of course w/o split. See in the next series at Sukhoi forum :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 23, 2014, 05:29:23 PM
    Big thanks for translation!  :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 23, 2014, 06:25:59 PM
    You are totally right :)

    MM is a worse thing in games.

    As long as this doesn't come true.

    (http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p293/invertedombligo/5RenewedInterface_zps651f1ff8.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 23, 2014, 07:09:57 PM
    This is ideal UI  ;D

    But now is not achievable.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Bletchley_Geek on January 23, 2014, 11:30:27 PM
    Of course no split, no divide, no micromanage - only add, integrate or multiply. But in GTMF you can use sections in one click manner, of course w/o split. See in the next series at Sukhoi forum :)

    I don't like micro-management much, either. But I'd like to see a clear demonstration that the AI can develop a plan which implements historical tactical doctrine, which reflects accurately historical levels of training, experience and command & control. That is, I'd like to see platoons developing a 'fix & flank' attacks, I'd like to see squads advancing on bounding overwatch, I'd like to see the AI to deploy a unit as a fire support element, etc.

    With all due respect, I never got to see anything of the sort in GTOS.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 24, 2014, 06:12:02 AM
    I think the only way you are going to see that in the near future is a game that allows MP, like TW games.  Each human player could take a platoon, under a company commander, for example, and fire and maneuver.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 24, 2014, 06:39:32 AM
    Of course no split, no divide, no micromanage - only add, integrate or multiply. But in GTMF you can use sections in one click manner, of course w/o split. See in the next series at Sukhoi forum :)

    I don't like micro-management much, either. But I'd like to see a clear demonstration that the AI can develop a plan which implements historical tactical doctrine, which reflects accurately historical levels of training, experience and command & control. That is, I'd like to see platoons developing a 'fix & flank' attacks, I'd like to see squads advancing on bounding overwatch, I'd like to see the AI to deploy a unit as a fire support element, etc.

    With all due respect, I never got to see anything of the sort in GTOS.
    Of course not.
    This beautiful military phrases, but they are absolutely meaningless in terms of AI. AI operates on distinct algorithms, just solve the problem through some criteria. Usually solutions are not like humans.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on January 24, 2014, 08:34:16 AM
    Looks good and clean, though the icon of "optic LOS" is a bit cryptic to me - along with some other icons. I highly recommend you to make better icons that are more easily understood, if possible. But I'm not saying that's easy.  :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 24, 2014, 12:46:39 PM
    Looks good and clean, though the icon of "optic LOS" is a bit cryptic to me - along with some other icons. I highly recommend you to make better icons that are more easily understood, if possible. But I'm not saying that's easy.  :)
    What is an "optic LOS" icon?

    Better icons, not redraw icons, but no icons and buttons at all, we move on this way :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on January 24, 2014, 04:28:58 PM
    Looks good and clean, though the icon of "optic LOS" is a bit cryptic to me - along with some other icons. I highly recommend you to make better icons that are more easily understood, if possible. But I'm not saying that's easy.  :)
    What is an "optic LOS" icon?
    I mean button that shows vehicle LOS sectors?  ;D

    Looks like this:

    [-----T                where T is small tank

    I understand that creating icons that have universal meaning is difficult.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 24, 2014, 05:31:06 PM


    Of course not.
    This beautiful military phrases, but they are absolutely meaningless in terms of AI. AI operates on distinct algorithms, just solve the problem through some criteria. Usually solutions are not like humans.



    Isn't (or shouldn't) that be your goal?  To make the ai appear to act as humans.  If you are minimizing micromanagement then the commander should be able to order an attack on a position and depend on his ai Sergeants and 2nd Lieutenants to execute it in the best way possible.  The concepts that bletchley geek outlined are not merely beautiful phrases, they are solid military concepts that the ai should employ, if you are not going to allow the commander to micro manage their behavior and arrange things himself.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on January 24, 2014, 05:54:59 PM
    I agree..Bletchley stated what the TAc AI should do or try esp if your taking more control out of the players hands, the AI will have to really work very well indeed to carry out realistic movements etc without much player input....certainly not just beautiful phrases..seems very odd for you to say that Andrey..you should be developing the game and AI to actually do those sorts of things..(I have seen kind of bounding overwatch..i.e soldiers laying down fire while others move forward, though even Combat Mission does that with the assault command).

    What you seem to be saying Andrey is the AI has no tactical coding or follow any sort of National combat doctrine or at least try and simulate it but I suppose just whether to walk, run and fire.

    I'd love to give an attack order to two platoons and then watch say one sneak around to the enemies flank whilst the other is pinning it down from the front..then they both move in for attack..one straight up the middle..the other coming in from the flank. Now once the AI can do this sort of thing off it's own back I'd have no worries about having more control handed over to the Tac AI. Or watch a platoon use all available cover as it attacks using bounding over watch.  Be able to give an oder to a heavy MG platoon and again watch them then choose a good position for each MG within the area you gave the defense order etc etc.



    Of course not.
    This beautiful military phrases, but they are absolutely meaningless in terms of AI. AI operates on distinct algorithms, just solve the problem through some criteria. Usually solutions are not like humans.



    Isn't (or shouldn't) that be your goal?  To make the ai appear to act as humans.  If you are minimizing micromanagement then the commander should be able to order an attack on a position and depend on his ai Sergeants and 2nd Lieutenants to execute it in the best way possible.  The concepts that bletchley geek outlined are not merely beautiful phrases, they are solid military concepts that the ai should employ, if you are not going to allow the commander to micro manage their behavior and arrange things himself.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 24, 2014, 06:30:20 PM
    Looks good and clean, though the icon of "optic LOS" is a bit cryptic to me - along with some other icons. I highly recommend you to make better icons that are more easily understood, if possible. But I'm not saying that's easy.  :)
    What is an "optic LOS" icon?
    I mean button that shows vehicle LOS sectors?  ;D

    Looks like this:

    [-----T                where T is small tank

    I understand that creating icons that have universal meaning is difficult.

    Show vehicle sights. May be not the best icon but conveys the essence


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 24, 2014, 06:41:58 PM
    Isn't (or shouldn't) that be your goal? 
    Yes, I can write that we've got the most beautiful AI that can not be distinguished from a human, as is usually written in games advertising  ;D. But it will be marketing bullshit.
    I hope everybody understands this, at least in depth :)

    Its not goal its real state of things at this moment. Modern CPUs completly different architecture than human brain and use completly differents algos.
    Modern computer allows to make the intellect (in human sence) about the level of a cockroach, may be a mouse. One for all units.

    To make the ai appear to act as humans.  If you are minimizing micromanagement then the commander should be able to order an attack on a position and depend on his ai Sergeants and 2nd Lieutenants to execute it in the best way possible. 

    Yes AI can try to  masquerade as a human. Not more.

    The concepts that bletchley geek outlined are not merely beautiful phrases, they are solid military concepts that the ai should employ, if you are not going to allow the commander to micro manage their behavior and arrange things himself.
    Its "solid military concepts" for human soldiers (Intelligence who thinks at level of 4-7 images/related objects, has an extremely low speed, but stunning parallelism), for AI its complete nonsence.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on January 24, 2014, 07:57:08 PM
    Visibility analysis helpers on the deployment phase (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/visibility-analysis-helpers-on-the-deployment-phase/657034661022478)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on January 25, 2014, 08:49:17 AM
    So we are to expect Less order options, Less menus, Less Quick battle force options, Less display options, Less squad control, Less target control, Same suffocating save, Same buildings, Same infantry graphics, Same infantry animations, Same deployment box restrictions, More mud, More colored squares, More vehicle line of sights, More towing/unhitching

    You'll have to excuse my lack of enthusiasm.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 25, 2014, 11:09:15 AM
    So we are to expect

    More order options, Less menus, More Quick battle force options, ....., More squad control,
    "Less target control" - Dont understand what this ???, ...... , Less colored squares, Less vehicle line of sights


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on January 25, 2014, 01:17:38 PM
    Placement in "bad" conditions (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/placement-in-bad-conditions/657439024315375)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 25, 2014, 02:23:49 PM
    You'll have to excuse my lack of enthusiasm.

    As I have said many times before the main course: more features, less superfluous.
    Unnecessary options (the menu, not features in the game), duplicates in interface, incomprehensible and marginally useful items will be removed. At the same time, existing features will be polished and added new ones.

    Will be worked separately with the visualization of complex things such as visibility, armor penetration, etc. I hope to many questions "why the AI ​​does not shoot / not see", etc, will be decreased.

    We try to do complex things cheaper (not in simulation but in understanding). In simulation more complex than in GTOS :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on January 25, 2014, 04:26:44 PM
    Visualization and operation of sights (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/visualization-and-operation-of-sights/657496270976317)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 25, 2014, 05:26:21 PM
    I keep beating this dead horse Andrey. :D

    You say that ai can't think like a human.  Fine, I agree with you.

    You say that you wish to limit the human player's ability to manage details because it's micro management.

    If the ai is not good enough to follow a sound plan and you won't let a player manage the troops to follow that plan, what is left?

    It seems that the management is left to an ai that can't do the job well enough.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 25, 2014, 05:56:10 PM
    I keep beating this dead horse Andrey. :D
    Ok :)


    You say that ai can't think like a human.  Fine, I agree with you.
    And it _work_ not like human. Its a main visible difference.

    You say that you wish to limit the human player's ability to manage details because it's micro management.
    In operational phase - limit yes, in tactical battle expand to some soft sort of MM, wait last translations from Sukhoi forum :)


    If the ai is not good enough to follow a sound plan and you won't let a player manage the troops to follow that plan, what is left?

    Same as real human commanders do in real life. As in our game they do not have the mental capabilities to manage each soldier. They can give orders and hope that somehow it will perform. And control is much less than in the game and for the executors often more stupid than our AI :)
    If we go to real simulation "as human", we need to reproduce this process, right? :)

    It seems that the management is left to an ai that can't do the job well enough.
    That's good, you have _no guarantees_, but the right actions increase the probability execution of orders. As in real life.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 25, 2014, 08:00:06 PM
    Carefully see this vid
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QD9-YUzhng

    And feel the diffirence before humans and AIs

    P.S. This is forefront of AIs with HUDGE budgets.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on January 25, 2014, 08:02:17 PM
    Maybe you can find the time soon to show us the new way you do orders and how they will look at the platoon level?

    Are you saying I wont be able to select a squad and make an advance with it alone up a street while flanking with the other 2 squads?



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on January 25, 2014, 08:04:44 PM
    Carefully see this vid
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QD9-YUzhng

    And feel the diffirence before humans and AIs

    P.S. This is forefront of AIs with HUDGE budgets.

    I don't think that robot is sober enough to drive.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on January 25, 2014, 08:25:59 PM
    Squad sections and changes in unit selection (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 25, 2014, 08:27:49 PM
    Carefully see this vid
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QD9-YUzhng

    And feel the diffirence before humans and AIs

    P.S. This is forefront of AIs with HUDGE budgets.

    I don't think that robot is sober enough to drive.

    You are absolutely intolerant and disrespectful to robots  ;D
    AI not bad, its another :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on January 25, 2014, 08:35:18 PM
    Squad sections and changes in unit selection (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036)

    Any way to see the screens as full sized? Hard to see what is going on here.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 25, 2014, 09:31:15 PM
    Maybe you can find the time soon to show us the new way you do orders and how they will look at the platoon level?
    When its done.

    Are you saying I wont be able to select a squad and make an advance with it alone up a street while flanking with the other 2 squads?
    Where I say this?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on January 25, 2014, 09:58:35 PM
    Maybe you can find the time soon to show us the new way you do orders and how they will look at the platoon level?
    When its done.

    Are you saying I wont be able to select a squad and make an advance with it alone up a street while flanking with the other 2 squads?
    Where I say this?

    I thought I read that the lowest level that can be given orders is at the platoon level and that you could no longer issue orders to individual squads.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 25, 2014, 10:02:31 PM
    Maybe you can find the time soon to show us the new way you do orders and how they will look at the platoon level?
    When its done.

    Are you saying I wont be able to select a squad and make an advance with it alone up a street while flanking with the other 2 squads?
    Where I say this?

    I thought I read that the lowest level that can be given orders is at the platoon level and that you could no longer issue orders to individual squads.

    What ???


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on January 25, 2014, 10:14:48 PM
    Я думав, ви не можете віддавати накази ескадронів тепер. Тільки взводи.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 26, 2014, 12:06:27 PM
    Я думав, ви не можете віддавати накази ескадронів тепер. Тільки взводи.

    "ескадрон" not equal squad, ескадрон = company/battalion

    You can command squads, platoons, coys or any mix of troops. And even sections (parts of squads).
    Please see https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036 (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036)






    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 26, 2014, 12:10:03 PM
    Squad sections and changes in unit selection (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036)

    Any way to see the screens as full sized? Hard to see what is going on here.
    Left click on image, you can see at up-right corner of image "two arrows" icons, click on it and you get FS images viewer.

    Its a Facebook :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on January 26, 2014, 01:39:50 PM
    In-game events (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/in-game-events/657968604262417)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on January 26, 2014, 04:00:24 PM
    I knew they will dummy touchpad optimize it!  ;D Very clear and informative, things are shaping up nicely.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on January 26, 2014, 08:16:17 PM
    Я думав, ви не можете віддавати накази ескадронів тепер. Тільки взводи.

    "ескадрон" not equal squad, ескадрон = company/battalion

    You can command squads, platoons, coys or any mix of troops. And even sections (parts of squads).
    Please see https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036 (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036)

    Sorry for the confusion. I'm glad that squads can still be given individual orders. Somehow I thought that was reserved for platoon level and higher with the new engine.




    Squad sections and changes in unit selection (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036)

    Any way to see the screens as full sized? Hard to see what is going on here.
    Left click on image, you can see at up-right corner of image "two arrows" icons, click on it and you get FS images viewer.

    Its a Facebook :)

    Hmmm. Wasn't giving me an option last night. And to me Facebook is an action you take when you can't put down a good read.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on January 26, 2014, 10:10:30 PM
    In-game events (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/in-game-events/657968604262417)

    This looks promising. Thanks for posting.

    A couple suggestions for the event icons and a wish.

    1) leave the time there so players can evaluate things better or possibly in the info field of the various events

    2) Change the font to a bigger more bold size.

    3) Be able to create events i.e. hotspots. I know I already asked about hotspots, but that was  before I knew there were events. It would be great if we could place an event location on the map and be able to click the user made icon in the event area to jump there. Since it wouldn't be tied to a unit like navigating with the unit panel you could use it for a full range of things. .... Set location, camera height, and camera tilt and create event.

    '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

    Those framerates look down quite a bit from what I get with the current engine. I hope it isnt too much of a hog.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 26, 2014, 11:04:13 PM
    1) leave the time there so players can evaluate things better or possibly in the info field of the various events
    Time stamps have 3 min ETA, in practice it not needed. And will be removed.

    2) Change the font to a bigger more bold size.
    This is standard game font for this resolution. No bold, no size.

    3) Be able to create events i.e. hotspots. I know I already asked about hotspots, but that was  before I knew there were events. It would be great if we could place an event location on the map and be able to click the user made icon in the event area to jump there. Since it wouldn't be tied to a unit like navigating with the unit panel you could use it for a full range of things. .... Set location, camera height, and camera tilt and create event.
    This is a different objects, not events. If they (theoretically) introduced, they will be in other place.


    Those framerates look down quite a bit from what I get with the current engine. I hope it isnt too much of a hog.
    I do not think that you're playing on my computer (or absolutely identical one), in the debug version of the game :). Therefore, to compare FPS does not make big sense.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 27, 2014, 04:33:46 AM
    Will you make a demo available Andrey?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 27, 2014, 10:30:33 PM
    Will you make a demo available Andrey?
    When GTMF reach beta stage, we make public demo.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Bletchley_Geek on January 28, 2014, 12:33:11 AM
    Of course not.
    This beautiful military phrases, but they are absolutely meaningless in terms of AI. AI operates on distinct algorithms, just solve the problem through some criteria. Usually solutions are not like humans.

    To be honest, Andrey, I am not sure what to make out of this statement. This a simulation that portrays a historical situation, involving very real German and Russian soldiers, which were trained in very specific ways to perform well-defined tasks and constrained by physics and psychology. One can get away with taking many liberties in Mass Effect animating those Geth troopers, but not in an environment that so closely resembles reality.

    I mean, the AI in GTOS kind of behaves like a blind man feeling its way around - much like one would expect a purely reactive AI would behave. I have a hard time finding it has any kind of sense of 'purpose' when it is in the attack. It needs more structure to constraint its behaviour: and that 'structure' are tactics. Just imagine the FIFA 2014 guys having their players act like the AI in GTOS does, without having instilled into it a notion of 'what's footy about' or 'how to play footy', or some ability to handle the rules of the game such as 'offside', 'penalty' or 'tackling'. It would look hilarious, very much a Robosoccer does. Indeed robots in Robosoccer don't really play footy like humans, but I'd say they're not playing footy at all. Indeed, there's no such a thing as a Rulebook for tactical warfare, but there are some 'verities': such as that of an attack at an enemy position without covering fires isn't going to work most of the time.

    Teaching the AI some battle drills, by encoding them in a procedural plan library isn't rocket science: it's about letting know the AI about the notion of a 'fixing' and a 'flanking' element, and letting generic algorithms instantiate those concepts to fit the situation at hand, select which units need to belong to each element, and work out how to approach the objectives. That is, you put in the code the 'what' and you let the algorithms to search for the 'how'. If you want a 'down-to-earth' example of how such an approach works in a commercial video game, just do some research on how FEAR AI was implemented. And you don't really need to go all the way down that path, either, to deliver something that would leave the competition sadly coughing in the dust.

    In my experience, those planning routines don't really consume that many resources: the search space can be tailored in many clever ways. Path-planning is the real performance hog.

    I really wasn't expecting an answer like that, it leaves me wondering what's the purpose of the whole exercise  ???


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on January 28, 2014, 06:14:55 AM
    Any rough Idea when beta time comes?  That will be a knock at my door for a few things I want to make.   ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Aces on January 28, 2014, 09:08:17 AM
    "having their players act like the AI in GTOS does, without having instilled into it a notion of 'what's footy about' or 'how to play footy', or some ability to handle the rules of the game such as 'offside', 'penalty' or 'tackling'."

    You haven't seen the Hammers play lately have you?! :D

    Cheers

    Aces


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 28, 2014, 10:27:46 AM
    but there are some 'verities': such as that of an attack at an enemy position without covering fires isn't going to work most of the time.
    Again you think as human :)
    "attack", "position", "covering", "isn't going to work", " most of the time" is good for human but not have any sence for AI.

    Yes, we can mask the actions of AI and make it look like as they are doing something similar to what you wrote :)
    But real state of things not changed. Moreover, your phrases work in theory, but in practice, even for humans do not work most of the time.
    Moreover, theoretically if it was achievable in the game no one would have done this, as 99% of cases, the AI ​​would not do anything because the rules have told him do not do that, do not do that. This is not suitable for game.

    Therefore, the game uses a different approach to AI and not stereotyped actions.

    Teaching the AI some battle drills, by encoding them in a procedural plan library isn't rocket science: it's about letting know the AI about the notion of a 'fixing' and a 'flanking' element, and letting generic algorithms instantiate those concepts to fit the situation at hand, select which units need to belong to each element, and work out how to approach the objectives. That is, you put in the code the 'what' and you let the algorithms to search for the 'how'.
    Sorry this is not have any practical sence regard to AI.
    You describe some sorts of scripts or FSMs, not AI. We not use scripts or FSMs in tactical game.

    AI is the decision-making, not an action for some templates.

    Yes "procedural plan library isn't rocket science", its primitive way to do somthing called "AI". Deadlock way.
    And rocket since in our world is simplest than AI, we (humans on Earth) have rockets more than 50 years, and no real worked AI on human level. Its the fact from real world  ;). In my humble opinion, this situation has arisen precisely because are trying to make the AI ​​as a human on a completely different basis. This is the huge mistake.


    Yes, now this approach frequently loses to human-made scripts of FCMs, but it has prospects in contrast to these methods (scripts, templates, FCMs). But national doctrines and other strange things in it certainly will not be.

    P.S. About FEAR AI - there is the same sort of goal (plan)-based AI as we have used in GTOS, but they have far far fewer actors and actor classes and very simplest environment compared to GTOS. Yes in this cases it work more predictable.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on January 28, 2014, 12:04:47 PM
    A game with this many variables (think all the possible situations/combinations) cannot have "perfect" AI with our current technology, which is of course sad. Now, wouldn't it be interesting to see what would happen, if Graviteam could hire some AI specialists, buy/rent huge computer cluster or super computers, develop a neural net and run through a vast number of iterations of different gameplay situations.  AI should be flexible and I believe, maybe, a neural net or something like that is needed to do it. But even then the AI could only do things that it was adapted into. And I guess it wouldn't run on our PCs. ;D Maybe somewhere in the future with more computing power and better AI theories/algorithms...


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 28, 2014, 01:34:51 PM
    A game with this many variables (think all the possible situations/combinations) cannot have "perfect" AI with our current technology, which is of course sad.

    In real word no perfect things at all  ;D. Only relative good or relative bad in one time and place.

    Now, wouldn't it be interesting to see what would happen, if Graviteam could hire some AI specialists, buy/rent huge computer cluster or super computers, develop a neural net and run through a vast number of iterations of different gameplay situations.
    ... and we went on this bad ugly way to make "AI as human". Thanks no  ;D

      AI should be flexible and I believe, maybe, a neural net or something like that is needed to do it. But even then the AI could only do things that it was adapted into. And I guess it wouldn't run on our PCs. ;D Maybe somewhere in the future with more computing power and better AI theories/algorithms...
    Our AI is more than flexible - plays in any environments with any force balance w/o scripts of FCMs or any human work. Neural net is "AI as human" not have good solutions in current CPU architectures.
    And this despite the fact that the AI ​​in this game no one really have not worked at all, now its as RAW concept. Work on AI only in the far plans.

    Despite RAW state, it can already do something like this
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/artificial-intelligence-versus-human/651129698279641 (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/artificial-intelligence-versus-human/651129698279641)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 28, 2014, 05:14:15 PM
    The best solution is to forget ai and play it against a human opponent.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 28, 2014, 05:25:53 PM
    The best solution is to forget ai and play it against a human opponent.
    Its worst solution. AI is always ready to play on your terms (its main AI feature due to which most of the games have off-line mode) . What can't be said about humans  ;D.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Soldat-Hans on January 29, 2014, 05:53:55 AM
    The best solution is to forget ai and play it against a human opponent.
    Its worst solution. AI is always ready to play on your terms (its main AI feature due to which most of the games have off-line mode) . What can't be said about humans  ;D.

    Yep your right I always hate it when people come and say Wahh no AI only humans, ... In Men of war squad assault 2 we had again some of those stupid, who say all to complex its impossible, blah blah! Whaaaaa I hate that discussion!! AI Is always usefull and fun! You can play under conditions, you add, even do an own story, you cant do when you have only human enemys! I am glad in Wargame Red Dragon, they made, that the AI can play with all decks now! (The stupid no AI players who claimned, that the AI is IMPOSSSIBLE, were wrong! One Week later, the devs announced, AI that can play with custom Decks will be in)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on January 29, 2014, 03:33:46 PM


    I agree wholeheartedly...if this game went multiplayer only I'd stop buying.

    The best solution is to forget ai and play it against a human opponent.
    Its worst solution. AI is always ready to play on your terms (its main AI feature due to which most of the games have off-line mode) . What can't be said about humans  ;D.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 29, 2014, 04:54:55 PM
    The best solution is to forget ai and play it against a human opponent.
    Its worst solution. AI is always ready to play on your terms (its main AI feature due to which most of the games have off-line mode) . What can't be said about humans  ;D.

    That's a matter of opinion.  However I agree that I should not have said to forget the ai.  I should have said to complement it with the ability to play a human opponent.  The ai, your ai, any ai is incompetent on the attack.  Any human opponent will probably be more challenging than the ai, once they know the gaming system.  A superior game will have both modes available.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Soldat-Hans on January 29, 2014, 09:12:54 PM
    @Tanker:

    Yeah I believe that was the problem. Sorry, when I was a little harsh, but in last time I had too often that discussion (on other games). Thats the reason.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on January 29, 2014, 10:20:22 PM
    A few matches in World of Tanks and having idiot children on your team makes the AI in this game look like a genius.

    I agree though,both modes would be preferable.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Schuck on January 29, 2014, 11:43:48 PM
    I would take a half decent AI over an idiot human anytime!  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 30, 2014, 04:47:39 AM
    Well WO,T where you can't choose your opponent, is very different from a game where you can play against an accomplished opponent of your choosing.  Comparing ai to an idiot human is a left handed compliment to the ai.  :D 




    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 30, 2014, 04:52:30 AM
    @Dane:  Take a look at Mech Warrior Online.  It has a long gaming pedigree stemming from the table top game of the 80's up through several pc games to the current version.  It is a cut above WOT and since it is science fiction based, you don have the historical aberrations that happen in WOT.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on January 30, 2014, 06:04:36 AM
    I'm looking at this as a replacement for World of Tanks-War Thunder Tanks.

    Flak Panzer
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5VxVIj1HJ8

    Stug
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lks-PNnwt9Y


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 30, 2014, 09:11:28 AM
    Well WO,T where you can't choose your opponent, is very different from a game where you can play against an accomplished opponent of your choosing. 

    Mass without dropouts is the only way to ensure the availability of players at any time, but it also contradicts the fact that the play will be as you like.
    If sensibly speculate that AI rather grow wiser than multiplayer games will have plenty of advanced players  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 30, 2014, 09:13:22 AM
    @Dane:  Take a look at Mech Warrior Online.  It has a long gaming pedigree stemming from the table top game of the 80's up through several pc games to the current version.  It is a cut above WOT and since it is science fiction based, you don have the historical aberrations that happen in WOT.
    Same as WOT, only smaller audience, so it's not so noticeable as in WOT. But absolutely the same things.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Aces on January 30, 2014, 09:39:04 AM


    if this game went multiplayer only I'd stop buying.


    Me too mate :D

    Cheers

    Aces


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 30, 2014, 10:14:11 AM


    if this game went multiplayer only I'd stop buying.


    Me too mate :D

    Cheers

    Aces

    Dont see reasons to worry.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Aces on January 30, 2014, 11:06:13 AM
    Hi Andrey,

    I'm not worried as long as an offline/single player mode is maintained and you have mentioned that this mode is being maintained or rather that it isn't being removed :). Neither Wodin or myself and probably others do not play purely online/multiplayer games. Which is at least in part why we enjoy your series of games.

    Kind regards

    Aces


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on January 30, 2014, 02:20:17 PM
    I'm looking at this as a replacement for World of Tanks-War Thunder Tanks.

    Flak Panzer
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5VxVIj1HJ8

    Stug
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lks-PNnwt9Y

    Been testing it, it's miles better than WoT, closer to the non-existent modern ww2 tank sim everyone here wants.


    Also some mius front musings:  Can you guys make it so that wheels can get blown off?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Schuck on January 30, 2014, 03:45:22 PM
    Well the AI plays in my style,
    Doesnt care if i hate the blue circles or the UI,
    Its always there when I want to play,
    Doesnt team kill, or log off mid battle if things are not going his way!
    If all gamers played just as i like it, that would be great, but they dont.
    So bring on the ajustable level Uber AI!
    If this game went multiplayer only..... id have to dust of SH3 GWX !! lol


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 30, 2014, 04:31:13 PM
    @Dane:  Take a look at Mech Warrior Online.  It has a long gaming pedigree stemming from the table top game of the 80's up through several pc games to the current version.  It is a cut above WOT and since it is science fiction based, you don have the historical aberrations that happen in WOT.
    Same as WOT, only smaller audience, so it's not so noticeable as in WOT. But absolutely the same things.

    Yup, but somehow more enjoyable than WOT


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 30, 2014, 04:34:31 PM
    Its always there when I want to play,
    Doesnt team kill, or log off mid battle if things are not going his way!

    Yes, AI very socially responsible and not frustrating to player through inappropriate behavior (in social aspects). And even more, it did not swears in chat.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 30, 2014, 04:40:35 PM
    Well WO,T where you can't choose your opponent, is very different from a game where you can play against an accomplished opponent of your choosing. 

    Mass without dropouts is the only way to ensure the availability of players at any time, but it also contradicts the fact that the play will be as you like.
    If sensibly speculate that AI rather grow wiser than multiplayer games will have plenty of advanced players  ;D

    Andrey my quote was meant to convey that you can't compare WOT to GTOS in terms of selecting the quality of your opponent.  If GTOS allowed playing against a human opponent, I could always choose a quality opponent and play exactly as I wished.  This is so because I would not choose a random opponent thrown at me in some game lobby.  I would choose a friend with whom I could agree on the ground rules for the game.

    On another point, finding and playing with compatible opponents fosters friendships.  I've met quite a few opponents while playing CM, TOAW, IL2 etc, that I consider friends and still play on line games with.

    I think GT is going in the right direction by trying to improve the ai and hopefully make a PvP option available also.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 30, 2014, 04:46:22 PM
    Doesnt team kill, or log off mid battle if things are not going his way!

    LOL, what kind of friends do you have?  You need to choose better opponents.  Opponents that act like that won't have friends or playing partners for long.

    Besides, you can't team kill in a game like GTOS.  I wish people would stop comparing their MP experiences in a game like WOT to what would occur in a game like GTOS.  If you've ever played Combat Mission, against ONE opponent, you'll have some idea of the potential here.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 30, 2014, 04:56:56 PM
    LOL, what kind of friends do you have?  You need to choose better opponents.  Opponents that act like that won't have friends or playing partners for long.
    This is the reality for those games that can be called MP, instead of pretending - to play with 2-5 opponnents only 2 hours on Saturdays.


    Besides, you can't team kill in a game like GTOS. 
    But why? Artillery barrage on allied positions is the best and simple way to do it ;D

    I wish people would stop comparing their MP experiences in a game like WOT to what would occur in a game like GTOS. 

    I would be happy if we would have an MP like WOT (player count/session time/resources), and very unhappy if it will be like CM. But in reality will be second its sad.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 30, 2014, 04:57:14 PM
    I'm looking at this as a replacement for World of Tanks-War Thunder Tanks.

    Flak Panzer
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5VxVIj1HJ8

    Stug
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lks-PNnwt9Y

    It seems to have the same game mechanics as WOT.  You'll still have the potential to be teamed up with bozos unless you join a team of disciplined players.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 30, 2014, 05:03:07 PM
    LOL, what kind of friends do you have?  You need to choose better opponents.  Opponents that act like that won't have friends or playing partners for long.
    This is the reality for those games that can be called MP, instead of pretending - to play with 2-5 opponnents only 2 hours on Saturdays.


    Besides, you can't team kill in a game like GTOS. 
    But why? Artillery barrage on allied positions is the best and simple way to do it ;D

    I wish people would stop comparing their MP experiences in a game like WOT to what would occur in a game like GTOS. 

    I would be happy if we would have an MP like WOT (player count/session time/resources), and very unhappy if it will be like CM. But in reality will be second its sad.


    I can't understand your responses Andrey. 

    What I see is one person (allied) playing against another person (axis).  You can't team kill in that situation.  What are you seeing?  Multiple humans on the same team?

    It's certainly not the reality when I play opponents in TOAW, FITE, or CM.  It is the reality when you play WOT. 

    Make your MP for GTOS so that I can choose whom I play against and with, not from a silly public lobby like WOT.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 30, 2014, 06:55:02 PM
    What I see is one person (allied) playing against another person (axis).  You can't team kill in that situation.  What are you seeing? 
    In simple case yes.

    Multiple humans on the same team?
    Yes, COOP or team vs team.

    That I'm not talking specifically about the hipotethical Mius MP :), and generally about normal MP realisation in wargames.
    With tournaments, teams, coop etc. Not best or even good - simply normal MP mode.

    It's certainly not the reality when I play opponents in TOAW, FITE, or CM.  It is the reality when you play WOT. 


    And this is very very bad. No proper implementation in wargames, no audience and as a result it does not pay off and the realization makes little sense.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: StkNRdr on January 30, 2014, 07:23:49 PM
    I am new to APOS and really liking it.

    I don't know if this is feasible with either APOS or PF but for me I prefer an MP game via PBEM.  I currently play a person several time zones away and playing a direct connect real time game is just not possible.

    We both use Head 2 Head Helper (H2HH) which makes playing PBEM so easy.

    Congratulations on a well conceived and executed game.  Looking at enjoying this for a while.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Schuck on January 30, 2014, 07:33:25 PM
    Hey back in the day i played IL2 FB/1946 in a large squad JG5.
    You could sit for hours in hyperlobby waiting for people to join a MP CooP mission only for some idiot to team kill or log out while the rest where waiting to take off.
    That was so frustrating!
    My point is people are people, the AI wont prat around it just does what its suppose to do, when you want it to do it.
    Id love to find an opponent who would play GTOS my way, but i doubt it.
    The game would need the ability to lock out certain settings, and both would have to be happy with these.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 30, 2014, 10:51:38 PM
    You could sit for hours in hyperlobby waiting for people to join a MP CooP mission only for some idiot to team kill or log out while the rest where waiting to take off.
    That was so frustrating!

    In this case AI can substitute such a conniving player  :)
    And basically substitute all of the players, which leads us back to the uselessness of MP mode  ;D



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on January 31, 2014, 01:22:21 AM
    As Patrick Henry said at the Virginia Convention, 'Give me multi-player or give me death'.

     


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 31, 2014, 05:04:37 AM
    You could sit for hours in hyperlobby waiting for people to join a MP CooP mission only for some idiot to team kill or log out while the rest where waiting to take off.
    That was so frustrating!

    In this case AI can substitute such a conniving player  :)
    And basically substitute all of the players, which leads us back to the uselessness of MP mode  ;D



    It absolutely not useless.  That is just sly propaganda. ;D  I'll bet a team of humans (well practiced and used to working together) could beat the ai in GTOS or Mius.  It's not useless because a human will give you a more challenging game than the ai, despite what you say.

    I play IL2 multi player campaigns with 60 players all the time even today.  No one team kills or logs out intentionally.  No one would think of doing such a thing.  That's because the players are serious players from all over the world that are there to recreate history and WW2 combat. 

    In fact you can join in SEOW (Scorched Earth Online Warfare) IL2 campaigns if you're still into the game.  HSFX 7.0 and Team Daedalus have continued to develop the game with new features and content.

    If you do MP Andrey, it's essential that you have a mode where you can choose who is going to play in your game and what position they will play.  Do not leave it up to match making software to throw together some random strangers.  You will end up with the same pile of dung that WOT has.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 31, 2014, 10:44:06 AM
    If you do MP Andrey, it's essential that you have a mode where you can choose who is going to play in your game and what position they will play. 
    You offer some primitive way  ;D

    Reasonable option looks like this - fully automatic choice for opponent on criteria you have specified (battle type/params/force pool, etc). With this, you do not even know you're playing with a human or with AI :D. Just opponent with the same conditions.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on January 31, 2014, 05:55:54 PM
    You offer some primitive way  ;D

    [/quote]

    Ask the makers of Combat Mission, or Command Ops: Battles From the Bulge.  They could explain better.

    Besides, I want to know who I'm going to play, not to play "Russian Roulette" with who I'm going to get.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 31, 2014, 07:25:10 PM
    Ask the makers of Combat Mission, or Command Ops: Battles From the Bulge.  They could explain better.
    This games not have something interesting in MP nor in terms of mass audience either in terms of game modes or infrastructure. No need to ask. We have the same worst MP mode from 2004 (T-72 BiF) even better with coop mode :).

    Besides, I want to know who I'm going to play, not to play "Russian Roulette" with who I'm going to get.

    Unfortunately, in an unpopular genre you have no choice. You have the option to play somehow almost always or rarely play but with the choice.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on February 01, 2014, 02:39:48 AM
    Quote
    You have the option to play somehow almost always or rarely play but with the choice.

    I think something is being lost in translation. What does this mean?

    Actually the only thing I need to know is will I be able to play a game against Tanker and any other worthy opponent I choose?



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on February 01, 2014, 03:14:44 AM
    I would have the option to play with whom I wished, whenever I wished, if the devs arranged it that way.  Just make it so I can give Missouri Rebel my IP, then we can chose our battle and be on our way.  The games I mentioned as examples are in the same genre as GT games.  Tactical war games with small, niche player bases.  Their way of implementing play between two or more humans is perfectly suited for people that wish to play against a friend.  That's interesting to me and a lot of other players.  Your games do not have mass audiences.  They are a niche market.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 01, 2014, 10:26:28 AM
    I think something is being lost in translation. What does this mean?
    If we have small audience, we can do
    1) manually select for opponent, and you can play for example 1 day in week, 1-2 games, in other time game fails in MP mode. Its sad but its real state of things in wargames - MP is feature that fails 9 times from 10.
    2) automatically select, even replace in some worst moments humans to AI transparently for player, even with small audience this mode can reach fails 1 from 10, or no fails at all. We can do coop modes, tournaments or dynamically operations with realivitly many players.

    Actually the only thing I need to know is will I be able to play a game against Tanker and any other worthy opponent I choose?
    Of course, now we dont see big perspectives in MP, and do (if it happens) only one this primitive way for play against friends. Dont worry :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: JamesX on February 01, 2014, 04:01:26 PM
    (forgive me multi player supporters)

     Hey Andrey, I think you should devote all your personal cpu running time to the AI, as that's where its really at.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Schuck on February 01, 2014, 04:16:37 PM
    I think something has been lost in translation.
    When we say multiplayer, are we meaning multiple players, ie 4,5,6.... players or more.
    Or 1v1?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on February 01, 2014, 04:19:56 PM
    I think something has been lost in translation.
    When we say multiplayer, are we meaning multiple players, ie 4,5,6.... players or more.
    Or 1v1?


    I'm confused here also.

    What type of multi player does Graviteam think will work best with this game and is considering implementing?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on February 01, 2014, 05:22:03 PM
    Perhaps we should adopt the naming convention of SP, 2P, and MP?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on February 01, 2014, 05:39:50 PM
    Perhaps we should adopt the naming convention of SP, 2P, and MP?

    +1


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 01, 2014, 08:19:01 PM
    Oh, no  ???


    Ok, goto from far

    Any feature in game, what we want. If you start game now - you want to use (work for) this feature? Yes?
    For example 3D render, or ability to send orders, or menus etc.

    If we start game and it not have menu we call this case - bug? Yes?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Schuck on February 01, 2014, 10:01:59 PM
    Dont panic Andrey!
    I think most people here would just like a 1v1 Quick Battle, not some sort of full 10v10 3hour multiplayer campaign.

    I personally prefere to play against the AI, but i can see why people would want a 1v1.

    Tanker, that was the point i was trying to make, i dont think multiple players would suit this game.
    Not that there was anything wrong with IL2, Im loving the way BoS is coming on.
    Now thats a game that does suit multiple players (squads).


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on February 01, 2014, 11:12:56 PM
    Quote
    I think most people here would just like a 1v1 Quick Battle, not some sort of full 10v10 3hour multiplayer campaign.

    yes  8)
    1v1 Quick Battle aka 2P


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on February 02, 2014, 01:23:57 AM
    Yes, I agree.  1 vs 1 or 2P is all I'm after. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on February 02, 2014, 04:50:29 AM
    1 vs 1


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 02, 2014, 10:28:44 AM
    Oh no.

    But how about "we want MP" ?  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on February 02, 2014, 03:59:35 PM
    Oh Noooo!

    Multi player would ruin the gaming experience for me.

    I could never play this game with a bunch of children or idiots and would spend most of the game just being pissed off at the idiots who have no understanding of how to play or could care less if they ever learned.

    I would enjoy playing against someone who is as serious and dedicated to the game as I am but never with a multi player aspect gaming with noobs and pay to win crap that ruins any serious tactical game play.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on February 02, 2014, 04:21:06 PM

    But how about "we want MP" ?  ;D

    ONLY if I can choose who will be playing in the game on both teams.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 03, 2014, 12:33:04 AM
    Newest features in GTMF (in Russian)
    From this post
    http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=81577&p=2051159&viewfull=1#post2051159


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on February 03, 2014, 09:47:19 AM
    Newest features in GTMF (in Russian)
    From this post
    http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=81577&p=2051159&viewfull=1#post2051159

    Excellent!

    Questions:
    Are the penetration calculations for diagram done in a two dimensional plane (player selects height: lower hull, upper hull, turret)?
    Is the calculation done for one spesific armor point in the vehicle (hit location constant)?
    Or is it done by tracing a true vector from gun to target tank model (hit location depends on the position of gun)?

    p.s. I would recommend to add coordinate units for axis in the diagram: 2 km (max distance), 15 deg (angle).


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 03, 2014, 10:33:52 AM
    Are the penetration calculations for diagram done in a two dimensional plane (player selects height: lower hull, upper hull, turret)?
    Yes, 3 planes like in AP epures

    Is the calculation done for one spesific armor point in the vehicle (hit location constant)?
    Of course no, please see last post in this topic I am upload real diagrams in it.
    Armor object treated as box (three boxes in our case) that have slopes in elevations.
    Diagram draws by changing azimuth in 4 sectors and rotate vector from -90 to 90, and we have 4 hodographs for each shell.

    Or is it done by tracing a true vector from gun to target tank model (hit location depends on the position of gun)?
    from position of gun depends only shell start position. Hit depends from trajectory fin. All this has nothing to do to diagramms. Diagramm is a reference book, look at the realistic ones that I brought in last post.


    p.s. I would recommend to add coordinate units for axis in the diagram: 2 km (max distance), 15 deg (angle).
    Very noisy work, extra digits are not needed, especially since they never change from dia to dia. And in the next part, you will can see why it is not necessary :)

    Game automatically computes all you need  ;). No big sence to use distances or angles manually.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on February 03, 2014, 11:44:47 AM
    Quote
    Armor object treated as box (three boxes in our case) that have slopes in elevations.
    Diagram draws by changing azimuth in 4 sectors and rotate vector from -90 to 90, and we have 4 hodographs for each shell.

    Thank you, this is what I was interested in (i.e. what do diagrams really mean).

    Remember that players may think this is exatcly how the game calculates armor penetration. But as far I've understood, your model is more complex than that (including spesific armor maps) - remember to write about it, for example: "Diagrams are only an estimate of armor penetration. In-game calculations may differ depending on the circumstances".

    Quote
    hodograph

    Nice ;D

    Quote
    Very noisy work, extra digits are not needed, especially since they never change from dia to dia. And in the next part, you will can see why it is not necessary :)

    Ok.  :) I just though that it would be dummy proof to add the indication "2km" and "15deg" once. However I agree that it's generally not needed, if documented well in the helper.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 03, 2014, 11:55:46 AM
    Remember that players may think this is exatcly how the game calculates armor penetration. But as far I've understood, your model is more complex than that (including spesific armor maps) - remember to write about it, for example: "Diagrams are only an estimate of armor penetration. In-game calculations may differ depending on the circumstances".
    Its about epures, tactical diagramms more precise thing due to work in 2D.
    In combination with epures (2.5D case) this tools give answer - where is armor penetration practically in any cases.
    All this work do by the game in realtime for you.

    But it is info tools not calculation itself. Calculation more and more complex even in GTOS.


    hodograph

    Nice ;D

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodograph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodograph)

    Not for military purposes, but practically same thing.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 03, 2014, 03:11:33 PM
    Advanced LOF part 2
    http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=81577&p=2051593&viewfull=1#post2051593 (http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=81577&p=2051593&viewfull=1#post2051593)


    after some time,we try to translate in English


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on February 03, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
    Beautiful presentation! For some reason it made me smile. :) Definately practical with detailed (and usefull) information. Love it. You guys have studied some natural science (math/physics), I can see that.

    Google translate worked for me (it was pretty bad, but could be understood with pictures).


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on February 03, 2014, 07:04:55 PM
    I learned two new terms and concepts.  Hodagraph and epure.  They say you should learn a new thing every day.  I'm twice lucky today.  Thanks. :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 04, 2014, 09:58:46 AM
    I learned two new terms and concepts.  Hodagraph and epure. 

    haha

    In translation we use "soft" variants - diagramm and chart :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Aces on February 04, 2014, 10:40:26 AM
    ah diagram and chart now you're talking my language Andrey!  ;D ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 04, 2014, 11:20:24 AM
    ah diagram and chart now you're talking my language Andrey!  ;D ;D

    I think in this thread gathered the most hardcore wargamers :D
    And simple things as hodograph and epure not cause difficulties.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on February 04, 2014, 06:40:58 PM
    Quote
    hodograph and epure

    Hodograph might be ok, since it's a special case of this spesific type of diagram, but epure sounds very gibberish like - I don't know much about history/military (compared to developers or some forum members) nor their convention to use these terms in their literature. As a scientist I found it delightful in a way to see these terms in the context of the game that also has relatively complex visual presentation build in it. You know, games tend to avoid anything that is close to analytical or that would require some thinking. And IMO, thinking can sometimes be fun.  :)

    I guess many players will not understand the meaning of those diagrams, not at least immediately. It does not mean these players are stupid, but they might not be familiar with these kind of presentations. To be honest, it took some time even from me to interpret these diagrams exactly. But those who are curious to learn will find this feature exciting - it allows them to explore the dynamics of the game more deeply. And that (dynamics) is what I like in this game the most beside realism and authenticity.

    Ahh, yes, I think diagram and chart are much more general and safer terms.  ;D



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on February 04, 2014, 07:29:09 PM
    Changes in armor penetration charts (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/changes-in-armor-penetration-charts/663058367086774)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 04, 2014, 08:07:08 PM
    but epure sounds very gibberish like - I don't know much about history/military (compared to developers or some forum members) nor their convention to use these terms in their literature.

    https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=epure&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cepure%3B%2Cc0

    As a scientist I found it delightful in a way to see these terms in the context of the game that also has relatively complex visual presentation build in it. You know, games tend to avoid anything that is close to analytical or that would require some thinking. And IMO, thinking can sometimes be fun.  :)
    :)

    I guess many players will not understand the meaning of those diagrams, not at least immediately. It does not mean these players are stupid, but they might not be familiar with these kind of presentations. To be honest, it took some time even from me to interpret these diagrams exactly. But those who are curious to learn will find this feature exciting - it allows them to explore the dynamics of the game more deeply. And that (dynamics) is what I like in this game the most beside realism and authenticity.
    Game automatically adopts this diagramms to current moment and make all calculations. From player need only to check it.


    Ahh, yes, I think diagram and chart are much more general and safer terms.  ;D
    Yes we use it in official English presentations.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Aces on February 05, 2014, 11:53:18 AM
    and, by way of comparison https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=gibberish&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cgibberish%3B%2Cc0 (https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=gibberish&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cgibberish%3B%2Cc0)  ;D

    As you'll observe 1915 was a bad year for gibberish but, given the gravity of the events taking place at this time you can postulate as to why this was the case however gibberish is definitely on the up in the 21st century peaking at an all time high in 2002!, a pretty prophetic statement of modern times I guess, but, enough of this.....gibberish :D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 05, 2014, 12:41:15 PM
    Oh, pointed this interesting utility, at my head. Now the debates about the terms come to a new level :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Aces on February 05, 2014, 12:43:56 PM
    LOL Andrey, couldn't resist a bit of fun :D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on February 05, 2014, 05:32:49 PM
    Armor penetration charts and tactical diagrams relationship (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/armor-penetration-charts-and-tactical-diagrams-relationship/663523953706882)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on February 05, 2014, 08:27:01 PM
    Quote
    Posted by: Aces 

    Insert Quote

    LOL Andrey, couldn't resist a bit of fun Cheesy
     

    Posted on: Today at 12:41:15 PM
     Posted by: andrey12345 

    Insert Quote

    Oh, pointed this interesting utility, at my head. Now the debates about the terms come to a new level Smiley

    WTF!!
    https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=WTF&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CWTF%3B%2Cc0
     ;D :D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on February 06, 2014, 08:57:09 PM
    Oh, pointed this interesting utility, at my head. Now the debates about the terms come to a new level :)
    :D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on February 15, 2014, 04:48:55 PM
    Andrey,
    When does Graviteam plan on releasing the Mius Front game?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on February 23, 2014, 02:19:51 PM
    New awesome small tool (https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/new-awesome-small-tool/673304166062194)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on February 27, 2014, 06:09:57 PM
    Automatic grouping of units (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.675575959168348.1073741843.590904460968832&type=1)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on February 28, 2014, 07:12:04 PM
    New orders interface (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.676068732452404.1073741844.590904460968832&type=1)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on February 28, 2014, 08:04:58 PM
    Welcomed additions.  :)

    p.s. I hope the patches in the future won't reset player profile settings.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Mucka on March 11, 2014, 09:44:42 PM
    I'm sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find it.
    I understand Graviteam are a Ukraine outfit so it is perfectly understandable that they concentrate on the Eastern front and I believe Mius will be no different but will they ever expand to the Western front?
    I expect most of their players are Eastern Europeans and Russians so they may not think it worthwhile but of course I would love to see a Western front game (or Middle East/African campaign) with the Americans and British pitted against the Germans and Italians.
    Do Graviteam ever see themselves publishing a Western front game?

    Hey then onto the pacific Islands and the Japanese eh? :P


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on March 11, 2014, 10:51:22 PM
    Quote
    Do Graviteam ever see themselves publishing a Western front game?

    Yes it has been brought up before and we beat that horse to death.
    While Graviteam isn't against the idea the cost factor is the main concern.

    Almost everything would have to be made from scratch.
    New buildings,trees,grass,Allied forces etc....

    Andrey said if a publisher was willing to finance a west front module they would probably do it but most of the work would have to be contracted out and new tanks and destructible terrain and buildings are very expensive and time consuming,especially since west Europe is comprised of many different building types another reason why they most likely aren't looking at any urban battles either for the east front.

    Flashburn was working on a Tunisia DLC and the map he started looked great but He said it was way too much for 1-2 people to tackle without more help.

    Graviteam also said they have a Russian/Japanese DLC they may add to the new Mius front game about the Nomanhan battle in 1930's Manchuria.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on March 12, 2014, 01:31:15 AM
    Gravi was at least interested in the Longstop project.  In fact the map is not that far from done.  The issues with that was everything else, lack of British and US historical info with incomplete German documents.  I still have some hope left for it.  BUt Mius is more bread and butter thing.  These games are good, perhaps when/if they get more notice more money will appear? 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Mucka on March 13, 2014, 03:07:00 AM
    Quote
    Do Graviteam ever see themselves publishing a Western front game?

    Yes it has been brought up before and we beat that horse to death.
    While Graviteam isn't against the idea the cost factor is the main concern.

    Almost everything would have to be made from scratch.
    New buildings,trees,grass,Allied forces etc....

    Andrey said if a publisher was willing to finance a west front module they would probably do it but most of the work would have to be contracted out and new tanks and destructible terrain and buildings are very expensive and time consuming,especially since west Europe is comprised of many different building types another reason why they most likely aren't looking at any urban battles either for the east front.

    Flashburn was working on a Tunisia DLC and the map he started looked great but He said it was way too much for 1-2 people to tackle without more help.

    Graviteam also said they have a Russian/Japanese DLC they may add to the new Mius front game about the Nomanhan battle in 1930's Manchuria.

    Yes I almost wrote that as one of the considerations as to why they might not go that direction.
    I wouldn't mind fairly generic buildings (Normandy was mainly countryside anyway) and just the US forces as a first attempt but I guess it is just not worth their while at the moment.
    I'm not surprised it has been talked about before, it is an exciting prospect for those of us in the West and would offer some good variance.
    Could you point to the original thread though as I couldn't find anything.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on March 13, 2014, 05:01:32 AM
    Its just an issue of resources really.  If Gravi had 20 game artists, a budget and a year or more of time I am certain they would end up going western front at some point.  But look where they are located.  Right in the middle of Kharkov.  To not focus on the back yard as your primary focus would be daft.  But mixing things up is good.  I really like that I can play an eastern front campaign and then go play in Africa or in some big stupid desert in one game.  Just ww2 other places would be choice at some point.  =)  Also quite logical.  You have a well represented German Army already.  So adding in Brits or Yanks presents a much smaller task than all from scratch. 

    But Mius I am sure is primary goal one.  And I hope what was started with DLC's for GTOS does the same for that one.  My guess is we see Mius and then its off shoot Nomagahan.  What comes after is a big question mark.  But with 1939 era Japanese included into the mix jumping to 1941/1942 US or British stuff in the Pacific would make a hell of a DLC IMO.  Or China for that matter.  I would love to see something on the Spanish civil war or the winter war in Finland as well.  And some modern stuff in the Iran Iraq war too.  If some sort of MP makes it in... Might make some word of mouth waves across the various gaming forums.

    So far the reception on steam of GTOS is pretty positive.  No idea of sales or if Strategy 1st will pay out royalties.  But vary curious what happens there.  That could provide a good revenue stream. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on March 13, 2014, 12:55:19 PM
    Quote
    I'm not surprised it has been talked about before, it is an exciting prospect for those of us in the West and would offer some good variance.
    Could you point to the original thread though as I couldn't find anything.

    I don't think any one thread was dedicated to this discussion or if it was discussed in this forum or over on SimHQ.
    It's been over a year since the topic has been brought up,but basically I would think cost is the overriding factor for not straying too far from what has already been made for this game.

    I'm pretty sure it would be a unanimous vote by all players that a west front game would be a welcome addition to this series,but as Andrey has stated in almost every discussion I've read concerning this issue unless someone else will finance the project Graviteam doesn't have the cash to do it themselves since most work would have to be contracted out with cash upfront.

    I personally would love to see this game do a Battle of the Bulge campaign around the Le Glieze Stoumont area where Piepers' combat group was destroyed or maybe the St. Vith area.
    I think under Graviteams management they would put together a very professional and enjoyable product.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on March 13, 2014, 04:08:53 PM
    I'm perfectly happy with the East Fornt..but would like to see it move away from Kharkov. Some Early War and then late War DLC would be great.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on March 18, 2014, 07:57:26 PM
    Hide behind vehicles modifier (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.685295208196423.1073741845.590904460968832&type=1)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on March 18, 2014, 08:31:14 PM
    WOOOO vary useful that one.   ;D :P


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Shadrach on March 19, 2014, 09:04:14 AM
    WOOOO vary useful that one.   ;D :P

    Also quite the potential for a hidden AT gun or flanked MG to take out a lot of guys bunched up behind the tanks :)

    I suppose they would spread out a bit if being fired on, but it's a matter of priorities I guess :D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on March 19, 2014, 10:17:01 AM
    Nice feature, but may be questionable tactic: for example diagonal mg fire and nearby explosion may cause lot's of casualties especially from yet unseen enemy. Of course the advantage may be that infantry may remain unseen behind a vehicle and its dust cloud thus hiding their precense or number. Also vehicle may provide good hard cover from distant small arms fire especially when the enemy positions are known and localized on narrow area. But if the shit hits the fan...  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: keeryel on March 19, 2014, 12:50:01 PM
    Quote
    unless someone else will finance the project Graviteam doesn't have the cash to do it themselves since most work would have to be contracted out with cash upfront.

    Maybe they can consider crow funding option... I've seen several good projects backed on Kickstarter for quite a lot of money...
    Personally I'll bake whatever project Graviteam would launch on Kickstarter or similar...


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on March 19, 2014, 01:14:25 PM
    Crowd funding doesn't work for Ukraine, they have strict laws about it that will eat up most of the profit. 
    Crow funding is even less effective.

    Also does the AI know how to use the move behind vehicle order?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: keeryel on March 19, 2014, 01:27:55 PM
    Quote
    Crow funding is even less effective.

     ;D ;D ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on March 19, 2014, 02:15:55 PM
    Kickstarter would be perfect way for small scale projects for Gravi.  Except the dumb taxes on foreign money Ukraine takes. Its like 40 percent or something crazy.  So say a US citizen does a successful kick starter for a US based project.  He/she pays the income tax on it.  Then they make the thing.  Then taxes come from sales and profits.  To make the thing you get taxed once.  In the case of Ukraine, its US citizen pays income taxes on raised funds (how much depends on person say 20 percent).  Now you send over sees to Ukraine.  Banks take a percentage...maybe 5 percent i don't know what really.  Then goes to Ukraine.  Ukraine government takes stupid about.  So say you start with 10k.  How much goes to Gravi?  Likely under 5k.   

    Now for a western publisher to contract with Gravi they still will run into some of this.  They will mainly get hit with the dumb tax again, but the cost of making the game in Ukraine will offset the cost of making it in the west.  They also are not getting hit with an income tax.  Sure the money is taxed, but not the same way as a private individual.

    In the end it will be hard so long as Ukraine retains these regressive taxes for small international business. Or I guess bribe the government official to not pay tax?  LOL  Don't even go there.  But for BIG business this must be happening.   I do not see international big guys paying 40 percent of anything to anybody.   


    Maybe a different crazy solution... Raise kick starter money and pay for contractors for work outside Ukraine.  Or pay privately as a 3rd party sending contractors to work in Ukraine but pay from kickstarter funds. Of course that would mean Graivteam was hired for part of a project and not sole provider.  Whole thing is silly. 

    Can we just go for now crowd funding will not work so long as taxes remain at retard levels?   


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Missouri_Rebel on March 20, 2014, 02:35:38 AM
    Great looking feature.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on March 30, 2014, 12:31:28 AM
    Right now what on my mind about Mius is potential improvements to infantry.  Clearly they now get a command to use tank as cover.  What else?  :P  PLease more scout options! 

    In GTOS vehicles work pretty well.  Some times they do weird things, but overall pretty good.  Only thing I could see that would be better for vehicles would be a command or automatic thing on reverse slopes where they reverse on the reload and then get back to a firing location. 

    Guns and mortars.  Also pretty good.  Sometimes drive you crazy when they get out of nice dug in location to get a shot at a target, but then again sometimes that is exactly what needs to happen. 

    Infantry...  IMO the weakest bit.  Its over all good but sometimes you just got to wonder why a lone soldier will see an enemy, run by, go prone, stand up, kneel and then after 90 seconds of this shoot the bastard he saw.  Mean while your watching this tearing your hair out!   :D  Option to do a bounding over-watch by squad.  In gtos they sort of do it within a squad but would be nice if squad A rushes while squad B covers as an option. 

    Anyways, cant wait for the thing. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on March 30, 2014, 10:31:34 AM
    more scout options! 
    More flexibility = good, more options = bad (see Combat Mission interface  :P).

    Now we have general orders
    - Move: units move to exact location
    - Attack: units move to exact location but are allowed to change their movement vector temporarily if engaged
    - March: units move to exact location and then take defensive positions
    - Defense: just like march, but units do not use any formation modifiers

    + Modifiers that affect how the order is executed

    Maybe defend and march could be combined (they are the same thing in essence) and the extra slot could be used to create a new order type:

    - Reconnaissance: units move to exact location, but will automatically stop if engaged and maybe disengage back along their movement vector if under medium/heavy fire.

    Of course reconnaissance could be included as modifier also, but I rather see it as a general order type, not as modifier.

    a command or automatic thing on reverse slopes where they reverse on the reload and then get back to a firing location.

    Something like this, yes. I would say that this could be, maybe, included in the march/defend order: units will take defensive positions (cover) using terrain elevation profile as cover. The approximate location (where to defend) for the units is defined by the player by specifying a vector starting point and the units should face and take cover against the direction/area/point that is defined by the vector end point. Result: units optimize their defensive positions, LOF and cover towards that specified vector end point. It is in the game now almost like this, but it needs some tweaks.

    Should the tanks move in and out of cover, I don't know. This is a special case and should be thought carefully how to do and include it in the game to be effective and possible to do without extra buttons.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on March 30, 2014, 02:43:14 PM
    Now we have general orders
    - Move: units move to exact location
    - Attack: units move to exact location but are allowed to change their movement vector temporarily if engaged
    - March: units move to exact location and then take defensive positions
    - Defense: just like march, but units do not use any formation modifiers
    In Mius only Move/Defence remains.

    - Reconnaissance: units move to exact location, but will automatically stop if engaged and maybe disengage back along their movement vector if under medium/heavy fire.
    This should happen in any mode, it's not robots :).

    Of course reconnaissance could be included as modifier also, but I rather see it as a general order type, not as modifier.
    Pure recon its not order and not modifier, its "strategy" for humans.
    AI knows about: probe, retreat, move, march, attack, infiltration, siege, but recon as order not have any sence.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on March 30, 2014, 02:44:51 PM
    So your saying there are only two orders? Move and defend?



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on March 30, 2014, 02:49:58 PM
    So your saying there are only two orders? Move and defend?



    Yes

    See facebook info about new iface
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.676068732452404.1073741844.590904460968832&type=1

    All orders on circle except bottom one it is moves, bottom is defend.
    2 clicks execution for each (point+select).

    All testers says that its very good solution. The first time we got about interface features all unanimously in the affirmative  :).


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on March 30, 2014, 08:27:22 PM
    OK cool..I'm still seeing actual different types of move order which is what i was worried about..I thought all there was was going to be was a move order and a defend order, just two orders to choose.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on March 30, 2014, 09:14:00 PM
    OK cool..I'm still seeing actual different types of move order which is what i was worried about..I thought all there was was going to be was a move order and a defend order, just two orders to choose.

    Yes only 2 orders (even one - move, defence is the same as move with some limits), but modifiers give about 500+ variants * ( 3 formation + 3 density + 3 row variants ).


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on April 01, 2014, 05:22:01 PM
    If we forget the semantics, "order" is just an algorithm that makes units to move. What is needed is not "recon" or "probe" (they are actions described by human, yes) but simply something that automatically prevents units from getting closer to enemy. At the moment the player needs to stop the unit manually each time, if the intention is not to engage. Maybe an "order" could include a new set of engagement rules that the commander (player) can give to his units. These engagement rules already include "firing blocks" (<---- this is bad english BTW  :P), but there could also be the following "engagement modes" that affect unit behaviour, when an enemy contact is made:

    In case of enemy contact:
    a) Engage and move as ordered. (This is what units always do in the game now)
    b) Engage, but stop and do NOT move. Notify the commander (player) and wait for new orders.
    c) Engage, but withdraw as soon as possible.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 01, 2014, 07:13:53 PM
    If we forget the semantics, "order" is just an algorithm that makes units to move.
    Generally it is algo to do anything. Move order is to move, other order is to do other things.

    What is needed is not "recon" or "probe" (they are actions described by human, yes) but simply something that automatically prevents units from getting closer to enemy.
    What is a "closer to enemy"?
    25 m - is closer? may be 75 is closer? or may be 150 is closer?
    If unit is aircraft?

    If unit dont see enemy and accidently move 10 m closer to it?
    What to do if enemy moves closer to our unit?

    Its really tricky thing :)



    At the moment the player needs to stop the unit manually each time, if the intention is not to engage.
    These points are not clear to me. You wanted to attack, and then change your mind? If so, how to computer will determine this moment?

    a) Engage and move as ordered. (This is what units always do in the game now)
    Yes, if you dont use modifiers.

    b) Engage, but stop and do NOT move. Notify the commander (player) and wait for new orders.
    When would it want? And under what circumstances should occur?

    c) Engage, but withdraw as soon as possible.
    What means "as soon"  :D?

    All this looks like robot tactics - click trigger and wait :)

    Engage (attack) it is a combination of movement and fire. If we discard movement by trigger its really strange things.

    Now in game you can control priority of movement or fire.
    If you set "fast move" or "tank forward" modifier you select movement priority
    If you set "hidden move" (and not set "fast move") you select fire priority

    Variant "stop if you see enemy", or even retreat if you see enemy - really strange. Because there are questions of how much and how far the enemy must seen, for which there is no answer, not only within the game interface, but also in general in the real world - it highly depends on the situation.





    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: JamesX on April 01, 2014, 11:04:11 PM
    Variant "stop if you see enemy", or even retreat if you see enemy - really strange. Because there are questions of how much and how far the enemy must seen, for which there is no answer, not only within the game interface, but also in general in the real world - it highly depends on the situation.

    What's so strange about that?  "Advance to contact" is a standard operational procedure when moving towards an enemy of unknown strength. - ie at the first contact you take cover return fire and assess what your up against - if the enemy seems stronger you defend & wait for support or withdraw, if the enemy is equal or weaker you plan an attack. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 01, 2014, 11:17:34 PM
    Variant "stop if you see enemy", or even retreat if you see enemy - really strange. Because there are questions of how much and how far the enemy must seen, for which there is no answer, not only within the game interface, but also in general in the real world - it highly depends on the situation.

    What's so strange about that?  "Advance to contact" is a standard operational procedure when moving towards an enemy of unknown strength. - ie at the first contact you take cover return fire and assess what your up against - if the enemy seems stronger you defend & wait for support or withdraw, if the enemy is equal or weaker you plan an attack. 

    Pretty much...

    And then for a scout all they generally care about is probing the enemy lines, destroying other scouts, and figuring out whats in front of the main body.  Well also condition  of the route for various sorts of units (infantry, trucks, armor).  But that is not needed in game. 


    For units on the attack or defense would be nice if they did not wait to try and retreat until most of them where dead or all heavy units killed.  I guess the ability to count what they are up against and make the choice between continuing an attack and falling back.  For AI!  The human player should generally make this call for his/her side.  Perhaps weighted by the value of the flag objective.  Take a lot of loses for large ones.  Take fewer for smaller ones. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 01, 2014, 11:20:14 PM
    And will Mius get any modern DLC's like Hooper at some point?  I really DO like that feature of DLC's of different era in the same game.  Although smaller stand alone game might bring in more money/players. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 02, 2014, 01:41:10 PM
    What's so strange about that?  "Advance to contact" is a standard operational procedure

    you forgot add the main phrase in this place - for humans  ;D

    The first thing that AI ask "What do you mean by the word "contact"?
    Second what is "enemy seems! stronger!?! "?  :D

    Infantry squad see somthing like tank at 3 km, it is contact?
    Tank + infantry squad get MG fire from the bushes at 50 m, it is contact? What to do - just die on the place, or retreat? Where? Why?


    P.S. Ok, I promise, we think about "Advance to contact" modifier in Mius :)



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 02, 2014, 02:22:08 PM
    Quote
    And will Mius get any modern DLC's like Hooper at some point?

    I would like more modern DLCs also, but for Operation Star not Mius unless there is a way to port over all the stuff from Op Star to the Mius engine.

    Maybe a DLC that adds 1980s NATO and Warsaw pact forces to use in QBs with helmets,flak jackets, a Golan Heights or Sinai map near the canal and some new vehicles and guns.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 02, 2014, 03:41:43 PM
    Quote
    P.S. Ok, I promise, we think about "Advance to contact" modifier in Mius  :)

    I would like this too  8)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on April 02, 2014, 04:49:51 PM
    What's so strange about that?  "Advance to contact" is a standard operational procedure

    you forgot add the main phrase in this place - for humans  ;D

    The first thing that AI ask "What do you mean by the word "contact"?
    Second what is "enemy seems! stronger!?! "?  :D

    Infantry squad see somthing like tank at 3 km, it is contact?
    Tank + infantry squad get MG fire from the bushes at 50 m, it is contact? What to do - just die on the place, or retreat? Where? Why?


    P.S. Ok, I promise, we think about "Advance to contact" modifier in Mius :)



    LOL there you go again Andrey. ;D  I, as a human player, don't care how the ai thinks in relation to the game.  Don't get me wrong, I think ai is a fascinating science but as a player of this game I don't care. It's your business to be concerned with it, not ours.  I, as a human player, am interested in how well the game simulates my contest against a "human" opponent (be that opponent an actual human or a simulated one). 

    The above examples that you give about contact are child's play for a human to decide about but apparently not so easy for ai.  Until the ai can handle those kind of situations as flexibly as a human can, it can not correctly simulate a contest between two humans, which is what the game strives to simulate.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 02, 2014, 06:14:24 PM
    LOL there you go again Andrey. ;D  I, as a human player, don't care how the ai thinks in relation to the game. 

    I hope you as human player feel the difference between abstract and specific  ;D. If you suspect that term is abstract - this term dont have sence for AI. Or need to be specified.


    Don't get me wrong, I think ai is a fascinating science but as a player of this game I don't care. It's your business to be concerned with it, not ours.  I, as a human player, am interested in how well the game simulates my contest against a "human" opponent (be that opponent an actual human or a simulated one). 

    Yes, but you have to offer somthing strange, nobody forces this :).
    Better to clarify what is it, because developers can understand it somehow differently  ;D


    The above examples that you give about contact are child's play for a human to decide about but apparently not so easy for ai.  Until the ai can handle those kind of situations as flexibly as a human can, it can not correctly simulate a contest between two humans, which is what the game strives to simulate.

    To simulate something we need to understand what you need. Especially in these difficult places. AI does not necessarily repeat how it makes people even more likely will not do that - because it is ineffective for AI. But to achieve the desired results we need to know the target, anyway.


    Let us return to our child's level problem ;D What do you mean on term "contact"? 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: topnik on April 02, 2014, 06:31:00 PM
    Let us return to our child's level problem ;D What do you mean on term "contact"? 

    Visual contact with enemy troops ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 02, 2014, 06:34:17 PM
    Visual contact with enemy troops ;D

    Okay :)

    Are you absolutely absolutely sure and do not want to make any additions to this definition?

    And we can take it as axiom in further discussion ?  :D

    "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact" - its right?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: topnik on April 02, 2014, 06:40:29 PM
    Visual contact with enemy troops ;D

    Okay :)

    Are you absolutely absolutely sure and do not want to make any additions to this definition?

    And we can take it as axiom in further discussion ?  :D


    At the moment yes. I'm sure you'll come up with something else  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: topnik on April 02, 2014, 06:41:55 PM

    "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact" - its right?

    That looks like contact to me.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 02, 2014, 06:49:01 PM
    I guess this is where Recon can get a little skewed.

    Is it a combat recon mission or a intelligence gathering mission by a small force.

    A small recon unit may want to hide as soon as the enemy is seen and just observe, where as a combat recon mission may expect the unit to push on and capture an objective and gather intel while performing its mission.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 02, 2014, 07:58:11 PM
    That looks like contact to me.

    Okay, let it be Axiom #1

    "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact"

    Someone objected?


    Is it a combat recon mission or a intelligence gathering mission by a small force.


    You see, Dane49 is already feeling where it will catch and why this task is not for the children's level :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: topnik on April 02, 2014, 08:39:28 PM

    You see, Dane49 is already feeling where it will catch and why this task is not for the children's level :)
    I'd say let's focus on pure recon, where you just want to find where the enemy is and report its position (and possibly strength), without getting the recon unit wiped out.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on April 02, 2014, 11:46:16 PM
    Well, it's not child's play to write algorithms for ai routines to account for all possible conditions.

    It is however simple for me, as a human, if I was in direct control of any formation, to make an instant decision on how to proceed when gaining visual contact.

    Writing programs to foresee every possible outcome has to be one of the hardest things to do.  That's why ai does not fly passenger jets yet.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 01:47:15 AM
    I guess this is where Recon can get a little skewed.

    Is it a combat recon mission or a intelligence gathering mission by a small force.

    A small recon unit may want to hide as soon as the enemy is seen and just observe, where as a combat recon mission may expect the unit to push on and capture an objective and gather intel while performing its mission.

    With a combat recon mission it is really just an attack.  There really is not anything vary scout like about it.  Make noise and see what you get hit with.   Which we have now with scout units.  Except they only fall back once they take a huge amount of kia or blown up gear.   So what I would like to see on that one is simply scout units fall back way sooner when taking losses.  Particularly for the AI.

    Then the whole simple move to contact is a useful thing for human players.  You order your soldiers forward, they spot enemy and await your orders.  Quite useful.  For the AI on its own?  Don't think it would matter.

    Just wish AI controlled scouts where not so suicidal.  But also regular units as well.  Why should they be taking 70 or 80 percent casualty rates for attacking a low level objective?  Seems like they should fall back much sooner for an objective that is not vary valuable.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 07:38:31 AM
    It is however simple for me, as a human, if I was in direct control of any formation, to make an instant decision on how to proceed when gaining visual contact.

    Take the time to conclusions. We shall return to this :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 08:20:26 AM
    Axiom #1
    "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact"

    Simple example
    Blues - alied units
    Reds - enemies
    Blue lines - move (advance)
    Black lines - visibility probe
    Green areas - forest

    1
    (http://i.imgur.com/RVLHmcp.jpg)
    2
    (http://i.imgur.com/pk1dqqg.jpg)
    3
    (http://i.imgur.com/H1sw7pB.jpg)
    4
    (http://i.imgur.com/oocwv6m.jpg)
    5
    (http://i.imgur.com/uDeW6GA.jpg)

    Do you really want this force fragmentation?
    Do you really think that this is Advance to contact?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 08:21:39 AM
    What do you mean on term "contact"?   ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 09:31:02 AM
    3, 4 and 5  are more like brake contact.  Which would certainly be nice. 


    Advance to contact is simply moving till you hit the enemy.  Then find a good place to fight from.  From there the situation should be assessed as to what to do.  If the force is smaller than yours, attack through it.  If its the same size or larger and unit is able to hold its ground without losing to many people, you stick it out and fight.  Hopefully help comes as well.  If your way out numbered and have no chance to hold ground, fall back.  You go into a brake contact deal and fall back in good order ( in US lingo this is popping smoke, or obvious reasons....usually you throw smoke to help mask the rear ward movement).  Basically bounding over-watch in the other direction. For a US style force, a rally point would have been set on the fly by the leaders where to go if you have to fall back.  Everyone should know where to fall back too.  So if falling back in good order you head that way.  If its real bad and the unit looses cohesion, every man knows where to go and reform up. 

    And at anytime as the situation develops you might change what your doing.  Go from defending what you have to trying to assault through.  To falling back to holding. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 09:40:46 AM
    If there is a way to get the ai commanders to count known enemy units and make its best guess on what to do (attack, defend, or fall back) under above example every 2 or 3 minutes that would be the best possible out come.  Even better if it could look at where its forces are and where the enemy forces are and decide how "good" the ground was.  But that is probably asking to much.   ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 09:56:07 AM
    Sorry for all the posts... Keep having new things to say.  Now I say what the general US does here as that was the basics of how I was trained.  I am sure its close to what the WW2 Germans where doing as well.  But what was the Red Army doing?  WW2 German infantry squad was built around their Mg34 or 42.  It provided a base of fire and then they would just fight it out with that mg as the center pin or other elements of the squad or platoon might try and maneuver in on the enemy.  That is a wrinkle to this IMO.  How did the Red Army of ww2 do it?  It would be stupid in a historical game to have everyone acting like Western Nato powers if they where doing something different.   :P ::)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 09:56:10 AM
    And at anytime as the situation develops you might change what your doing.  Go from defending what you have to trying to assault through.  To falling back to holding. 

    In real game the situation will be much worse because visibility checks performs on unit basis:
    "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact"

    At the outlet will turn the crowd scattered units that go somewhere, either spontaneously scattered across the countryside.  Moreover, after this even organize them back into one group will not be easy, especially under fire.

    This "feature" is probably the worst proposal I've heard for the last half of the year :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 10:03:02 AM
    And at anytime as the situation develops you might change what your doing.  Go from defending what you have to trying to assault through.  To falling back to holding. 

    In real game the situation will be much worse because visibility checks performs on unit basis:
    "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact"

    At the outlet will turn the crowd scattered units that go somewhere, either spontaneously scattered across the countryside.  Moreover, after this even organize them back into one group will not be easy, especially under fire.

    This "feature" is probably the worst proposal I've heard for the last half of the year :)


    Right.... Because the AI might spot the enemy at 2km which in this case would result in the ai doing something stupid.  In pure real world, the leaders on the ground would know better than to run away or charge forward.  In a game we can not expect the same actions from the ai.  Probably should be limited to > 500 meters or less.  But in average GTOS battle its rare to spot at 1 km or more.  Sunny days only really.  I think contact should have to mean within small arms range or actively shooting each other for game.   



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 10:03:18 AM
    How did the Red Army of ww2 do it? 

    Doing the same thing, but mostly not around MGs, but around a tank  ;D.

    Sometimes used slightly different tactics. Example is the division that defended in Taranovka, instead dances around MGs used large number (approximately company) of highly trained snipers, who created the desired density of fire due to marksmanship. Or used a whole SMGs squads.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 10:08:50 AM
    How did the Red Army of ww2 do it? 

    Doing the same thing, but mostly not around MGs, but around a tank  ;D.

    Sometimes used slightly different tactics. Example is the division that defended in Taranovka, instead dances around MGs used large number (approximately company) of highly trained snipers, who created the desired density of fire due to marksmanship.

    Hell yes... tank is better than an MG.   :P

    Well the US did it a bit different too.  Instead of 1 belt fed MG you had 2 BAR's with a weapon section with actual MG's.  But the basics are pretty universal cause they simply work I guess.

    Actually the US and USSR in this period had alot of the same ideas about infantry squads and weapons now that I think about it.  To bad the SVT 40's where not in bigger numbers.  But the SMG guys of the Red Army.. ya that was something else.  Tons of short range firepower.  No one did that but Red Army.  It certainly worked when ranges where under 200 meters.   ;)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 10:23:44 AM
    IF a workable way to do an LOS and number check within a set range can be made, with the ai able to choose a few different general (attack, defend, fall back) on the fly would be a bonus to Mius I think.  The AI is good in GTOS.  But getting it a bit more "human", even making "human" errors would be an over all improvement.  I know not the easiest thing.  But would add so much.  Even if the AI got it wrong 1/3 of the time.  Humans do this too.  But from this I would have to say advance to contact HAS to be based on average infantry engagement ranges.  Its the basic unit for fighting and with realities of game with the fact that ranges can be 2km easy it would NOT work with simple visual contact at range.  Maybe 2020? 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 03, 2014, 11:06:42 AM
    Axiom #1
    "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact"

    Simple example
    Blues - alied units
    Reds - enemies
    Blue lines - move (advance)
    Black lines - visibility probe
    Green areas - forest

    1
    (http://i.imgur.com/RVLHmcp.jpg)
    2
    (http://i.imgur.com/pk1dqqg.jpg)
    3
    (http://i.imgur.com/H1sw7pB.jpg)
    4
    (http://i.imgur.com/oocwv6m.jpg)
    5
    (http://i.imgur.com/uDeW6GA.jpg)

    Do you really want this force fragmentation?
    Do you really think that this is Advance to contact?


    Good diagram of the problem that some games have with advance to contact.  I imagine the AI needs several "brains" at different levels to work properly. At the platoon level, at the company level and at the force level. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 11:06:45 AM
    Limit range is poor thing because enemies can have a long ranges than alieds. For example SMG squad advance to howitizer positions. If check range will be limited by hand guns range - soldiers killed and not stop.

    Any unit visibility checks as "contact" is poor criteria at all - it not works at level more than 1 unit.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 11:08:50 AM
    Good diagram of the problem that some games have with advance to contact.  I imagine the AI needs several "brains" at different levels to work properly. At the platoon level, at the company level and at the force level. 

    Now we talks about orders for the human player not AI.

    AI ​​is not engaged in such foolishness  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: topnik on April 03, 2014, 11:49:26 AM
    Andrey, your diagrams don't represent the behaviour of well organized and trained military formation. I'm not an AI programmer, and don't know if AI recognizes belonging to such a formation.

    If sent to scout, a formation (whether it's a squad, platoon or some ad hoc combat group) should retreat in an organized manner, not like a bunch of drunks engaged in a street fight when they hear police sirens.  ;D

    If this is not achievable, scouting should be limited to a single squad.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 12:17:29 PM
    The diagram would be an improvement if AI on their own did it right.  But still based on a set rate of attrition of force?  If that is the basis for AI actions (which is fine), then retreating earlier would be nice if the objective is not vary valuable.  If its really important, like a 4 or 5 in the editor losing 70 or 80 percent of attacking force before the survivors run away.  A 3 like 50 percent attrition, 2 maybe 35, 1 20, 0 as low as 5 or 10 percent.  Is that even possible?  This just a basic concept not even factoring in moral level, fatigue, command level.  Those would need to get factored in of course. 

    Since the vast majority flag objectives are 0 or 1, my hope would be the AI would not loose high numbers to unimportant things.  Something I do the AI quite often in GTOS. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 03, 2014, 12:33:30 PM
    Considering that I have no idea what goes into programing the AI, would it be possible with units given the movement to contact command to automatically have the units that come under enemy fire to take up the defense command and await further orders.

    Also concerning the designated recon units(actual recon units), how about once they spot  the enemy all previous commands are cancelled and they assume the hide command and await further orders.

    There is already an option in the game (default order 8.08) where you can set the units to either defend, move or attack once they have completed their initial command or lack of any commands given to the units. Maybe this can be modified for certain commands or units once a certain trigger is initiated.

    Also maybe have units retreat sooner after a certain casualty % is reached.
    It seems that a lot of times the units don't retreat until  they are almost wiped out and are completely useless for the rest of the battle.  I would like to see them fall back sooner before that stage of attrition ,low morale and broken status is reached.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 12:50:38 PM
    Andrey, your diagrams don't represent the behaviour of well organized and trained military formation. I'm not an AI programmer, and don't know if AI recognizes belonging to such a formation.

    Wait, wait, but how about this post? http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=11319.msg39018#msg39018
     :D

    So it turns out, "Advance to contact" it is order for not trained troops?  ;D
    So this is what I always say - this order does not make sense.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 12:51:09 PM
    So your saying a player ONLY command of movement to contact..  Just bump into enemy and players soldiers go defensive and await orders.  Which might be all that is practical.  The other we are of same mind on.  


    Well real world the call would come from highest leader of the unit that was in command.  But Andrey you said was dumbest idea in 6 months.   :P ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 12:52:56 PM
    Considering that I have no idea what goes into programing the AI,

    Programming AI its a very simple, but... you can only program that makes sense  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 03, 2014, 01:11:15 PM
    Basically a reconnaissance in force or combat recon mission can be carried out by any combat unit it's not necessarily a function of actual scout or recon units.

    The American army in Vietnam called these "Search and Destroy" missions.
    Generally company and platoon sized units would beat the bush looking for the enemy and if they found them it would be determined by higher command whether to reinforce the engagement if available reaction forces were on hand or fall back to a more defensible position under the cover of air and artillery fire and await reinforcement or evacuate the units to a safer location.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 03, 2014, 01:16:05 PM
    Good diagram of the problem that some games have with advance to contact.  I imagine the AI needs several "brains" at different levels to work properly. At the platoon level, at the company level and at the force level. 

    Now we talks about orders for the human player not AI.

    AI ​​is not engaged in such foolishness  ;D

    Well in that case it'd just be a job for micro management.   

    For a move to contact order it could be a special order so that any units selected when order is given all stop when first contact from any unit.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 01:23:18 PM
    Basically a reconnaissance in force or combat recon mission can be carried out by any combat unit it's not necessarily a function of actual scout or recon units.

    The American army in Vietnam called these "Search and Destroy" missions.
    Generally company and platoon sized units would beat the bush looking for the enemy and if they found them it would be determined by higher command whether to reinforce the engagement if available reaction forces were on hand or fall back to a more defensible position under the cover of air and artillery fire and await reinforcement or evacuate the units to a safer location.

    I do not think that is a good analogy.  Yes in that war they had combat guys running around looking for the VC.  Heaven help a small unit running into the NVA, since they where running around usually in battalion sized groups. 

    It is true, any unit can conduct scout missions.  But scouts do it better.  Smaller foot print usually, that is lower number of people, but more fire power per soldier.  Less likely to be spotted but with enough fire power to extract themselves from a mess.  They do not have enough people to actually take and hold ground well.  Its not their job. 


    But we seem to be talking about 3 things. 

    Movement to contact....
    Casualty rates and falling back without the unit worthless over nothing.
    and scouts and how they are frankly ate up in GTOS.  They scout, but do it awful.  Says the former scout.   ::)

    So what can be done?  how to make really freaking great game more freaking great? 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 03, 2014, 02:57:59 PM
    Quote
    It is true, any unit can conduct scout missions.  But scouts do it better.

    Scouts are usually a platoon sized unit attached to a battalion or regimental command whose function was basically to observe and report.

    While reconnaissance batttalions were generally combat units that performed movements to contact mainly on the flanks or well ahead of the main force to determine if the enemy was in the area and in what strength and were usually tasked with probing and defending the flanks over a greater area because of their increased mobility.

    Maybe scout platoons could be added that use the hidden movement and generally try to avoid combat so that they can generally observe.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on April 03, 2014, 03:00:45 PM
    Seems like there's some discussion going on about "Advance to contact". :)

    I think everyone agree that "enemy contact" is defined that unit has LOS to an enemy unit (game reports this as "enemy contact"). We can say that this condition is well established for one unit. However, as Andrey pointed out in his Figure (http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=11319.msg39032#msg39032), this condition is not very practical when we're looking at bigger picture, i.e. actions of a battle group that consists of many units: Each unit in a battle group has a spesific LOS, because LOS is dependent on unit position, and thus at a certain moment some units may have "enemy contact" while others don't. If an unit has the hypothetical "advance to contact" modifier actived, each unit having "enemy contact" will stop separately from others and thus the battle group formation is broken, i.e. fragmented.

    What can be done? The "advance to contact" modifier should not only modify behaviour of one unit, but also modify actions of the whole battle group of that unit as well. Like Flanker15 said:

    For a move to contact order it could be a special order so that any units selected when order is given all stop when first contact from any unit.

    So if an unit having "Advance to contact" modifier activated moves to "enemy contact", the whole battle group stops. By definition this would also allow the commander (player) to select, which units has the power to stop the whole battle group and which don't.

    What is a battle group? I think a battle group in this game is defined as a group of units having the same order (given by the player at the same time). According to Mius Front news posts on Facebook, these battle groups are created when an order is given to a group of units. This group will be presented as an icon on the interface. When the group of units completes all its orders, the battle group is disbanded along with its icon.

    Another thing to note is that by definition  "Advance to contact" would not just be "movement modifier", but more of an "order modifier", since it would make units (belonging to the same battle group) stop, cancel all of their orders and thus disband the whole battle group. To prevent battle group from disbanding, maybe the orders need not to be cancelled, but the battle group could just halt (aka pause) and wait for decision from commander (player): should they continue or should they have new orders.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 03, 2014, 03:29:24 PM
    That is fine for the player.  And a useful command to add to the order panel.  But so far every order or modifier the player can do, the ai can do too.  In this case would be worthless to the ai.  Actually horrible for the ai. 

    Right now when i generally have my guys bump into the enemy forces I order them to stop.  effectively using this command if it existed.  Also will start ordering my guys to go find a hole to jump into if its appropriate. So such a basic command would be nice, it automates what I am doing manually, we still have the same old ai.

    I think having ai units retreat sooner as both Dane and myself have stated would be a good thing.  Alas my worst idea of the past 6 months of a move to contact and have the ai count enemy's to decide what to do seems to be a bad ai thing.  ;D 

    But overall need to consider the over all game in a holistic way.

    My personal order of priority (if I where like the Graviteam gods) would go something like this....

    1.  Less suicidal ai units that attempt to preserve themselves in the attack where appropriate.
    2.  Some sort of movement to contact command.  Either a simple player only command, or something closer to Andrey's diagrams.
    3.  Better scouts! 


    4.  On screen artillery (mortars and field guns) that can fire flares and smoke rounds.  Both ai and player to decide what is best.
    5.  AAA guns for ground units  =) flak 30/38's and that cool 37mm of the red army.  Or even those crazy quad maxims.

    OH and infantry throw-able smoke! 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: topnik on April 03, 2014, 04:50:20 PM
    Andrey, your diagrams don't represent the behaviour of well organized and trained military formation. I'm not an AI programmer, and don't know if AI recognizes belonging to such a formation.

    Wait, wait, but how about this post? http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=11319.msg39018#msg39018
     :D

    So it turns out, "Advance to contact" it is order for not trained troops?  ;D
    Quite the opposite, it's an order for well organized and trained troops, who communicate with each other. Let's say you have a group of units in scout mission (although I prefer a single squad), as soon as one unit makes contact, the whole group acts in coordination (it seems that the general consensus here is that is should retreat - but in organized manner, not rout).

    So this is what I always say - this order does not make sense.
    I disagree  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on April 03, 2014, 05:10:43 PM
    And at anytime as the situation develops you might change what your doing.  Go from defending what you have to trying to assault through.  To falling back to holding. 

    In real game the situation will be much worse because visibility checks performs on unit basis:
    "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact"

    At the outlet will turn the crowd scattered units that go somewhere, either spontaneously scattered across the countryside.  Moreover, after this even organize them back into one group will not be easy, especially under fire.

    This "feature" is probably the worst proposal I've heard for the last half of the year :)


    Right.... Because the AI might spot the enemy at 2km which in this case would result in the ai doing something stupid.  In pure real world, the leaders on the ground would know better than to run away or charge forward.  In a game we can not expect the same actions from the ai.  Probably should be limited to > 500 meters or less.  But in average GTOS battle its rare to spot at 1 km or more.  Sunny days only really.  I think contact should have to mean within small arms range or actively shooting each other for game.   



    That gets at the heart of my point about how reducing micro-management, while a worthwhile goal, does not always work very well for the game.

    We may not expect the ai to be able to do it, but shouldn't we be able to accomplish it somehow?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 03, 2014, 06:45:45 PM
    So if an unit having "Advance to contact" modifier activated moves to "enemy contact", the whole battle group stops.
    This case even worstest than fragmentation :)
    Its look like as bug with movement.

    Ok, wait for Mius with good implementation of similar thing that expanded on all size formations with any set of units. Call it "Advance without contact"  ;D.

    I hope everyone understood that contact is something much more complex than "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact" :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on April 03, 2014, 09:32:24 PM
    Tanker I agree..the less micro management a game strives for the better it's Tac AI has to be.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: topnik on April 03, 2014, 09:39:57 PM
    Ok, wait for Mius with good implementation of similar thing that expanded on all size formations with any set of units. Call it "Advance without contact"  ;D.
    Looking forward to it. BTW, any info on release date?  ;D

    I hope everyone understood that contact is something much more complex than "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact" :)
    What about on squad level? Even though it's the smallest controllable unit, it does get scattered. And once a single soldier sees the enemy, the whole unit is aware there's a contact. At least that is my understanding of how it works. Can something similar be implemented on a larger scale, i.e. the whole battle group?




    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on April 04, 2014, 04:22:43 PM
    So if an unit having "Advance to contact" modifier activated moves to "enemy contact", the whole battle group stops.
    This case even worstest than fragmentation :)
    Its look like as bug with movement.
    I wouldn't say that it's the worst - but definately far from ideal!  ;D

    I hope everyone understood that contact is something much more complex than "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact" :)
    If we are splitting hairs here, "contact" is a visual confirmation of any enemy unit. But for gaming purpose, as described earlier, this definition does not give ideal effect.  :)

    Ok, wait for Mius with good implementation of similar thing that expanded on all size formations with any set of units. Call it "Advance without contact"  ;D.
    :P


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 04, 2014, 05:33:20 PM
    So if an unit having "Advance to contact" modifier activated moves to "enemy contact", the whole battle group stops.
    This case even worstest than fragmentation :)
    Its look like as bug with movement.

    Ok, wait for Mius with good implementation of similar thing that expanded on all size formations with any set of units. Call it "Advance without contact"  ;D.

    I hope everyone understood that contact is something much more complex than "If any our unit see any enemy unit in any distance in any conditions this is contact" :)

    Well the idea real world is of course to not necessarily STOP, more of a pause and figure out what to do.  It could be really quite fast. 

    But modifiers to advance to enemy and retreat if i am following correctly, would be useful.  As would simply advance and defend.  If that makes sense. 

    If only a way the ai could..


    Advance....assess..then..attack
                                       retreat
                                       defend. 

    SO I am beating a dead horse.   ;)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on April 04, 2014, 06:17:29 PM
    One thing that could be done is bring in SOP's that you set for a unit.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on April 04, 2014, 07:52:11 PM

    If only a way the ai could..


    Advance....assess..then..attack
                                       retreat
                                       defend. 

    SO I am beating a dead horse.   ;)


    NEVER stop whipping Flash.  Sometimes even a dead horse can come to life around here.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on April 04, 2014, 07:53:17 PM
    One thing that could be done is bring in SOP's that you set for a unit.

    Yes, I've seen that done on games and it works quite well.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on April 05, 2014, 07:18:38 AM
    Just throwing something out there...

    A normal mod with the least amount of interface confusion possible for newer players.  And an Advance mod with more nit picking options.  Andrey will hate that idea.   ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 12, 2014, 12:59:01 PM
    New vid, part 1
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPQA5-VWVXU


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: FB_AGA on April 12, 2014, 01:11:27 PM
    Scouting under fire seems strange.  :-\


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 12, 2014, 01:14:17 PM
    Scouting under fire seems strange.  :-\
    Of course NO :)

    See in next series (in 3rd) :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 12, 2014, 02:19:22 PM
    New features (part2A)
    http://youtu.be/-eCET3VCztU (http://youtu.be/-eCET3VCztU)



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 12, 2014, 02:56:04 PM
    New features (part2A)
    http://youtu.be/-eCET3VCztU (http://youtu.be/-eCET3VCztU)



    Are those smoke grenades in this video and who is throwing them.
    The Germans or the Soviet tank crew?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 12, 2014, 02:59:40 PM
    Are those smoke grenades in this video and who is throwing them.
    The Germans or the Soviet tank crew?

    In this vids - Germans if you see carefully :)
    In the next series I will show this moments a little more.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: xandu on April 12, 2014, 03:11:44 PM
    Amazingly perfect. Would definitely buy it


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 12, 2014, 03:34:49 PM
    Are those smoke grenades in this video and who is throwing them.
    The Germans or the Soviet tank crew?

    In this vids - Germans if you see carefully :)
    In the next series I will show this moments a little more.

    I thought maybe the tank crew may have thrown them to help conceal their exit from the tank.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 12, 2014, 03:57:36 PM
    Are those smoke grenades in this video and who is throwing them.
    The Germans or the Soviet tank crew?

    In this vids - Germans if you see carefully :)
    In the next series I will show this moments a little more.

    I thought maybe the tank crew may have thrown them to help conceal their exit from the tank.
    I do not think that from a burning tank will throw something and wait until flare.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 13, 2014, 12:57:09 AM
    It's looking really good!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 13, 2014, 01:27:19 AM
    Part 2B
    Mius Front from the Sim HQ forum.
    Infantry smoke grenades. 8)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w7DpE9Ou9I


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: kuri on April 13, 2014, 07:03:47 AM
    Looks amazing, can't wait!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 13, 2014, 09:09:33 AM
    Advance w/o contact
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGv5QYmQT0c


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: topnik on April 13, 2014, 01:36:46 PM
    Looks very good!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: JamesX on April 13, 2014, 02:03:13 PM
    This is excellent!  I especially like the advance to contact order.  Andrey - any rough estimate as to what general period of the year Mius Front will be out?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on April 13, 2014, 02:11:24 PM
    "Is this conctact?"  ;D So the retreat behaviour is activated by increased fire intensity and some other factors?  :)

    It's looking really good!
    ::)

    Looks very good!
    ::)

    No, it's excellent!

    And soldiers can finally have a smoke! :D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: topnik on April 13, 2014, 04:21:44 PM
    "Is this conctact?"  ;D
    ;D

    No, it's excellent!
    We'll be able to say it's excellent only after we see some more videos.  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on April 13, 2014, 04:35:46 PM
    Quote
    We'll be able to say it's excellent only after we see some more videos.  Grin

    No,after we are able to see how it works in our game. ;D

    Would some of these new sneak peek GTMF video options be available as a patch for GTOS?
    I think the smoke grenades would really enhance the modern DLCs in GTOS.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 13, 2014, 05:15:52 PM
    I think the smoke grenades would really enhance the modern DLCs in GTOS.
    You can add it through mod as it do in FB_AGA mod.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on April 13, 2014, 05:38:48 PM
    Quote
    We'll be able to say it's excellent only after we see some more videos.  Grin

    No,after we are able to see how it works in our game. ;D

    No, then it may be called perfect.  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 13, 2014, 05:57:06 PM
    You rejoice early - GTMF several different game than GTOS  :D


    Title: In mius front, can skilled AI tanks do "trick" shots?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 16, 2014, 08:22:54 AM
    For example:

    Use the fuse setting on a shrapnel shell and detonate it over infantry in trenches?  Or use it as a canister shot for close range.

    Use a solid core shell to penetrate through something hard and hit a tank on the other side.

    Use the fuse setting on HE shells for use against dug in guns.


    Title: Re: In mius front, can skilled AI tanks do "trick" shots?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 16, 2014, 09:28:42 AM
    Use the fuse setting on a shrapnel shell and detonate it over infantry in trenches?  Or use it as a canister shot for close range.
    This feature present from APK43/SF times

    Use a solid core shell to penetrate through something hard and hit a tank on the other side.
    This from SABOW times. Not directly through hard - this unpredictable or lead to destroy shell. But shots from soft objects like bush, walls etc


    Use the fuse setting on HE shells for use against dug in guns.
    The same as 1st. In GTOS from this still dependent the shape of the explosion, since 2012 patches


    But all this features are not related to AI


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 16, 2014, 09:58:23 AM
    Doesn't the AI need to know when to use a shrapnel shell in airburst or when to use it as canister?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 16, 2014, 10:27:39 AM
    Doesn't the AI need to know when to use a shrapnel shell in airburst or when to use it as canister?
    AI knows (measure) distance whats enough.
    This is not AI question at all. This is simple FSMs.

    You do not call elevators as AI? No, why? Elevators AI most complicated  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 16, 2014, 02:37:00 PM
    But will low skill AI tanks just fire their shrapnel shells on less effective impact mode all the time.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 17, 2014, 09:39:11 AM
    But will low skill AI tanks just fire their shrapnel shells on less effective impact mode all the time.
    Shrapnel shells are used in "on hit" if shooting for armor. Like erzatz AP shells.
    Main purpose - is to shot on unsheeted infantry. Against infantry in shelters shrapnell are ineffective with distance fuse due to character of fragmentation field.
    It is obtained in the form of a cone (due to physics Newton's laws), and detonation top of the trenched infantry does not make sense - all fragments hits at ground behind the trench.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 18, 2014, 12:58:44 AM
    Ok I try to explain with example.

    Rookie tank gunner:  I see a bunch of infantry over there so I'll just shoot a Shrap shell on impact setting into the middle of them.
    Veteran tank gunner: I see a bunch of infantry over there so I'll fuse the Shrap shell so it explodes in the air infront of them to increase lethality.

    Also in your tank sims Shrap shells are quite good against entrenched infantry if you set the fuse about 30-50 meters infront of them.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 18, 2014, 09:13:30 AM
    Ok I try to explain with example.

    Rookie tank gunner:  I see a bunch of infantry over there so I'll just shoot a Shrap shell on impact setting into the middle of them.
    Veteran tank gunner: I see a bunch of infantry over there so I'll fuse the Shrap shell so it explodes in the air infront of them to increase lethality.

    Tthis happens automatically (not just like that 2 graduations of course), as inexperienced troop inaccurately measures the distance.


    Also in your tank sims Shrap shells are quite good against entrenched infantry if you set the fuse about 30-50 meters infront of them.

    Compare to what?
    Much worst than HE shell with delayed explosion and not fill the trench.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 19, 2014, 11:01:45 AM
    Cool  8)


    Hows the development going, will it be coming out "soon" or "not soon"?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 19, 2014, 11:38:02 AM
    Cool  8)


    Hows the development going, will it be coming out "soon" or "not soon"?
    I dont know. More time wasted to STEAM for GTOS


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 20, 2014, 12:34:50 AM
    Well on the bright side if the time spent on getting steam content delivery working is a success it could pay dividends when mius front is released.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 21, 2014, 02:12:12 PM
    Smoke, Smoke and Smoke
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbZIzjy6vEk


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on April 21, 2014, 07:06:20 PM
    Smoke, Smoke and Smoke
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbZIzjy6vEk

    Very nice. Love the features you have been working on. BTW, I hope the units can evaluate wind direction! Oh well, it seems they do.  :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 29, 2014, 03:03:53 PM
    Interactive encyclopedia

    (http://i.imgur.com/VMLz7pX.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/qNoNTNW.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/l5NG5vi.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 29, 2014, 03:05:54 PM
    ...

    (http://i.imgur.com/fLplmbh.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/VPwnMRj.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/jL4SEkD.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 29, 2014, 03:06:27 PM
    ...
    (http://i.imgur.com/hXyxyDj.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/OJMhkMN.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/MXYUW47.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on April 30, 2014, 10:57:43 AM
    How long do we have to wait now:)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 03, 2014, 07:44:45 PM
    New KV-1S (later mod)
    (http://i.imgur.com/Qp5EJQf.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/lntL26v.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/EOjWGt1.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/Zsh5lvO.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/11jpgQj.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lockie on May 04, 2014, 09:21:15 AM
    (http://i.imgur.com/11jpgQj.jpg)
    Looks tank was modernized with a halogen lamp  8)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Shadrach on May 05, 2014, 09:06:50 AM
    Yaaarrgh how long must this torment go on, all those sexy tanks... it's too much for an old wargamer   ;D



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 05, 2014, 12:37:30 PM
    New feature with tanks randomness (see left front wing)
    (http://i.imgur.com/6niS5Ew.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/ENVHwre.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/KpDu0MQ.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 07, 2014, 08:55:11 AM
    KV-1S in mods
    (http://i.imgur.com/i3N45AI.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/sOLLt2Z.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 07, 2014, 08:57:13 AM
    early vs med prod series

    (http://i.imgur.com/916B895.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/AWeUzus.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/oizK7VU.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/5W7GVYY.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/lE7YKhw.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 07, 2014, 08:58:57 AM
    late vs med prod series
    (http://i.imgur.com/Bi4dDZz.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/qEMTwp6.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/axSvJUW.jpg)

    We want to express our gratitude to EgorOgr for giving model and study options of this tank!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: hamrock on May 08, 2014, 07:43:25 AM
    For the love of God please release this. :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 08, 2014, 08:59:16 AM
    You can see triangle holes in Hi-res wheels for early production KV-1s in binoculars
    (http://i.imgur.com/cDOuZsY.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: hamrock on May 08, 2014, 10:14:15 AM
    Absolutely brilliant, now come on and get this out.  I'm a definite  buyer!!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 08, 2014, 11:30:25 AM
    And in opposite you can see small round holes on wheels of mid and late production

    (http://i.imgur.com/FYF2Aem.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 08, 2014, 01:50:41 PM
    KV-8S from 508 separate flame tank battalion
    (http://i.imgur.com/rW80wBQ.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/7lnxdxg.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/vIPNelJ.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/XmSWi58.jpg)



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: hamrock on May 08, 2014, 01:54:01 PM
    Super artwork.  Are the uniforms going to be of a similar standard?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 08, 2014, 02:01:13 PM
    Super artwork.  Are the uniforms going to be of a similar standard?
    No, only for some tanks or tank parts.
    KV-1S/8S is about an year of work:
    - manual measurement of existing monuments and museum exhibits
    - reconstruction
    - modeling and texturing
    - tuning, etc.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on May 08, 2014, 06:24:19 PM
    WHEN!! For the love of god..WHEN?? ;D ;)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 12, 2014, 07:17:54 AM
    KV-8S

    (http://i.imgur.com/N4Z0cdc.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/msyUKsX.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/E8n6eO1.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/ZCxDR0Y.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/EO6O91C.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on May 13, 2014, 04:04:26 AM
    Have you guys ever considered adding a fire system for all your nice grass/wind?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on May 13, 2014, 05:56:34 PM
    Have you guys ever considered adding a fire system for all your nice grass/wind?

    Well grass will set fire.  Do you mean like a roving brush land firestorm?   :P


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on May 13, 2014, 11:43:06 PM
    I like the idea, but am afraid that would really ruin what little FPS I get now on the Summer maps.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the houses with more fire and flames though.
    When they catch fire they always look like they are smoldering.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 24, 2014, 09:53:09 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/h2lWIsP.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wildman on May 24, 2014, 11:41:37 PM
    beautiful.

    I will buy.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 25, 2014, 06:17:29 AM
    beautiful.

    I will buy.
    Thanks :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on May 25, 2014, 12:23:33 PM
    And this all happen dynamically and affect driving dynamics of vehicles?? Cool!  :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 25, 2014, 01:17:03 PM
    And this all happen dynamically and affect driving dynamics of vehicles?? Cool!  :)
    Yes of course. From APK43 times, impacts to wheels and suspension affect on driving dynamics.
    In Mius visuals are added.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on May 25, 2014, 04:33:37 PM
    Really cool!

    So you can blow the wheels off AT guns and trucks too?

    Only thing that isn't blow off able would be the doors and hatches then.








    Oh and the turrets.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 25, 2014, 04:51:12 PM
    So you can blow the wheels off AT guns and trucks too?
    If it adjusted.
    At release will be on some tracked vehicles that massivelly shared wheels, like SU-152/KV-1S/KV-8S etc

    Only thing that isn't blow off able would be the doors and hatches then.

    Yes this will be to, but w/o unique models.



    Oh and the turrets.
    Of course no  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on May 25, 2014, 06:34:51 PM
    Andrey,

    I have a question concerning GTOS after Mius Front game is released.

    Will Graviteam still support and update GTOS with patches?
    Will Graviteam be offering any new modern DLCs to Mius Front, or port any maps and campaigns over from GTOS to Mius Front(Krasny Polyana, Taranovka, Shilovo, etc...)?

    I know Mius Front will be a new game with new engine and look forward to its release, but there are a few DLC(Maps and units) from GTOS that I would like to see updated for and playable in the Mius Front game, or maybe be able to use the new Mius Front map in the GTOS quick battles.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on May 26, 2014, 07:39:51 AM
    Will Graviteam still support and update GTOS with patches?
    Yes, if there was something that need to patch. But engines of GTOS and GTMF diverge more and more, and there is little from Mius already be inserted into a OpStar without major modifications. But nevertheless ...

    Will Graviteam be offering any new modern DLCs to Mius Front, or port any maps and campaigns over from GTOS to Mius Front(Krasny Polyana, Taranovka, Shilovo, etc...)?
    Shilovo and Zhalanashkol - yes, they basically build and developed on Mius tech, and can be simply recompiled.
    Taranovka (Sokolovo) will be reworked and change season to summer - may be first historically DLC for GTMF, we have data from archives for it (thanks FB_AGA), about summer 1943 battles. About others dont know.


    I know Mius Front will be a new game with new engine and look forward to its release, but there are a few DLC(Maps and units) from GTOS that I would like to see updated for and playable in the Mius Front game, or maybe be able to use the new Mius Front map in the GTOS quick battles.
    Some of units from GTOS wil be upgraded to Mius tech and inserted to GTMF, some (like KV-1S based vehicles) will be replaced.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on May 27, 2014, 02:09:03 PM
    Quote
    Taranovka (Sokolovo) will be reworked and change season to summer - may be first historically DLC for GTMF, we have data from archives for it (thanks FB_AGA), about summer 1943 battles.

    Are the Sokolovo and Taranovka maps going to be linked together and given a summer setting and a single battle campaign, or are they going to be two separate summer 43 DLCs?

    I like the idea of Sokolovo and Taranovka having a Summer look and very much look forward to playing many Quick Battles on those 2 maps in a Summer seasonal setting.  8)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: FB_AGA on May 27, 2014, 05:38:35 PM
    I like the idea of Sokolovo and Taranovka having a Summer look and very much look forward to playing many Quick Battles on those 2 maps in a Summer seasonal setting.  8)


    If to do all operations which were on Taranovka/Sokolovo map we will see a winter; a summer; a golden autumn and fresh colors of spring   ::)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on June 03, 2014, 12:46:31 PM
    Any news for june?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 03, 2014, 07:17:44 PM
    Any news for june?
    Work in progress.
    Set up old weaponry and tanks to the new format in the physical setting, it takes a lot of time (about two months).


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 06, 2014, 02:44:46 PM
    Mius-Front 2014
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCw9O_V713Q
    Thats sad


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Void on June 06, 2014, 06:41:13 PM
     :(


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: hamrock on June 07, 2014, 12:19:13 PM
    Enough said


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 09, 2014, 06:57:27 PM
    Marder 139 under construction
    (http://i.imgur.com/B5HNJ9s.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/iQ7Hzpj.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/PwQcZ58.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wildman on June 09, 2014, 09:27:15 PM
    had to log in just to say wow!!! the level of detail on that model is ridiculous, a thing of beauty indeed.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 11, 2014, 09:07:30 AM
    Sdkfz 139 in stowed and deployed positions
    https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/photos/a.590970197628925.1073741828.590904460968832/728478663878077/?type=1 (https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/photos/a.590970197628925.1073741828.590904460968832/728478663878077/?type=1)
    https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/photos/a.590970197628925.1073741828.590904460968832/728478667211410/?type=1 (https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam/photos/a.590970197628925.1073741828.590904460968832/728478667211410/?type=1)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: sandman2575 on June 11, 2014, 08:38:14 PM
    These screenshots are just making the wait that much more excruciating.

    Can we have even the slightest inkling when Mius may come out?  I assume not this year -- sometime in 2015 perhaps?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on June 12, 2014, 02:56:30 AM
    The eye candy's great but has the tac ai improved any?  How's the path finding for armored vehicles?  Do they still gyrate all over the place and show their rears to enemy fire? 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 12, 2014, 07:42:11 AM
    Can we have even the slightest inkling when Mius may come out?  I assume not this year -- sometime in 2015 perhaps?

    I shall warn beforehand :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 12, 2014, 07:49:25 AM
    The eye candy's great but has the tac ai improved any?
    See vids on this channel
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbZIzjy6vEk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGv5QYmQT0c
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPQA5-VWVXU
    ...

    How's the path finding for armored vehicles? 
    The same as now, except:
    1) correct detour for dynamic obstacles (this is corrected in the next patch for GTOS too).
    2) speed selection in bad areas for vehicles with short base between the axes (checked in GTMF).

    Do they still gyrate all over the place and show their rears to enemy fire? 
    Yes. In Mius become even worse, as the AI ​​will use the sights almost like people in general purpose and can not see enemies. As a result, will not turn anywhere at all. As is in real life


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: sandman2575 on June 12, 2014, 05:01:11 PM
    I shall warn beforehand :)


    Mark 13:37

    (Andrey, your cryptic reply sounds almost Biblical.  Next you will be telling us that Mius Front will be coming like a thief in the night... :))



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on June 13, 2014, 08:23:36 AM

    Yes. In Mius become even worse, as the AI ​​will use the sights almost like people in general purpose and can not see enemies. As a result, will not turn anywhere at all. As is in real life

    Well as long as they don't drive around pointing their sides and back at threats they can see or drive out of entrenchments or retreat from a threat by turning around instead of using reverse it'll be good.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on June 13, 2014, 01:25:11 PM
    Andrey said last week that it would take at least 2 months to bring all the GTOS models up to Mius Front standards.

    I suspect we won't see Mius front before the last quarter of 2014.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on June 13, 2014, 01:27:46 PM
    Quote
    Well as long as they don't drive around pointing their sides and back at threats they can see or drive out of entrenchments or retreat from a threat by turning around instead of using reverse it'll be good.

    I'm still bitching at the noobs on my teams in World of Tanks to stop doing this, LOL.  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 13, 2014, 02:22:24 PM

    Yes. In Mius become even worse, as the AI ​​will use the sights almost like people in general purpose and can not see enemies. As a result, will not turn anywhere at all. As is in real life

    Well as long as they don't drive around pointing their sides and back at threats they can see or drive out of entrenchments or retreat from a threat by turning around instead of using reverse it'll be good.


    Would not expect it, seriously.
    Just you look from the perspective of the player, who sees everything as a whole,but from the perspective of a particular AI unit all see others. And do you think that it turns his back to the enemy, and the enemy AI seems that no enemies, it can quickly turn around and leave.
    In Mius will be even worse, since the viewing area even closer to reality, especially for vehicles.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 13, 2014, 02:28:27 PM
    I'm still bitching at the noobs on my teams in World of Tanks to stop doing this, LOL.  ;D

    This is a real problem if the AI ​​for it in principle can be solved, but now just do not have enough CPU power to the exact solution is, if you need a lot of units simultaneously. But for the average human - no. This is one of many reasons why i think MP in complex games dont have any prospects. Ie or there will be a natural selection and few players, or will be many stupid things. AI in this sense, is much more promising.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on June 13, 2014, 05:29:40 PM

    Yes. In Mius become even worse, as the AI ​​will use the sights almost like people in general purpose and can not see enemies. As a result, will not turn anywhere at all. As is in real life

    Well as long as they don't drive around pointing their sides and back at threats they can see or drive out of entrenchments or retreat from a threat by turning around instead of using reverse it'll be good.


    Would not expect it, seriously.
    Just you look from the perspective of the player, who sees everything as a whole,but from the perspective of a particular AI unit all see others. And do you think that it turns his back to the enemy, and the enemy AI seems that no enemies, it can quickly turn around and leave.
    In Mius will be even worse, since the viewing area even closer to reality, especially for vehicles.
    Of course it should be expected.  That's the problem with programming ai.  AI has no "sense" of the battlefield, no soldier's intuition.  It is just reacting to deterministic algorithms

    So you don't think soldiers in a unit don't know the enemy is "over there somewhere"?  Tank crews know that the threat is in "that direction".  They are not going to turn their rear in that direction.  They are not going to inexplicably leave a hull down position.  The ai still turns rear to enemy even in the presence of incoming fire.  Is that close to reality?  It doesn't matter if the enemy hasn't been seen for a period of time, real soldiers and tankers are not going to react like the ai often does in the game. 

    You've said it yourself.  The cpu power is not available to have the ai work like reality in all cases.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: sandman2575 on June 13, 2014, 05:31:35 PM
    I suspect we won't see Mius front before the last quarter of 2014.

    Thanks Dane -- I'd gladly settle for a Q4 2014 release.  My fear is this drags well into 2015.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on June 13, 2014, 05:33:11 PM
    Quote
    Well as long as they don't drive around pointing their sides and back at threats they can see or drive out of entrenchments or retreat from a threat by turning around instead of using reverse it'll be good.

    I'm still bitching at the noobs on my teams in World of Tanks to stop doing this, LOL.  ;D

    Yes, the noobs do it but by this time in the war as depicted in the graviteam games there should be very few noob tank commanders left.  Yet we still have the ai commanders acting like unaware noobs.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 13, 2014, 07:17:50 PM
    Of course it should be expected.  That's the problem with programming ai. 
    Its not a problem of program AI, its more like optimisation problem.
    We can do more or less extact AI in this aspect (recognition and flogged of enemy _continuously_), but extact is to slow for more than 10-30 units on each side and has quadratic growth with increasing number of units. As result we can make tricky fast approximations this lead to some problems in recognition.

    AI has no "sense" of the battlefield, no soldier's intuition.  It is just reacting to deterministic algorithms
    In this aspect not right.
    Theoretically the same thing as human, even better due to strong memorization. But slow.


    So you don't think soldiers in a unit don't know the enemy is "over there somewhere"?  Tank crews know that the threat is in "that direction".  They are not going to turn their rear in that direction. 
    All this problems (with regards to the enemy's position density) solved due to cluster analisys, but slow :)
    This is not extact as human but in most aspects is very close.

    They are not going to inexplicably leave a hull down position.  The ai still turns rear to enemy even in the presence of incoming fire. 
    And humans too.
    This problem dont has an ideal solution.
    Just a little better or a little worse. In some cases better to turn and fast move, at other better to reverse.
    Incoming fire even more strange thing  ;D

    Is that close to reality?  It doesn't matter if the enemy hasn't been seen for a period of time, real soldiers and tankers are not going to react like the ai often does in the game. 
    What do you mean on term "react"?

    You've said it yourself.  The cpu power is not available to have the ai work like reality in all cases.
    You do not correctly interpret the fact that I write.  ;D

    Does not allow to do some things, if a lot of units.
    But if do not try to do this, there will be no progress whatsoever in this area.

    On the other hand with the human players, in general nothing can be done at all. Only cull quite goofy  ;D. But given the small popularity of the genre it does MP quite meaningless.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on June 13, 2014, 08:21:00 PM
    To react is to respond to stimuli or the lack of stimuli in this case.

    I think Battlefront is making a business out of providing an MP (more than one player) experience.  Note, I'm not comparing anything other than that both games are in the same genre and one provides SP and MP while the other does only one.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 13, 2014, 09:38:16 PM
    To react is to respond to stimuli or the lack of stimuli in this case.
    I do not mean it. I mean what do you have to do during in this "react" units in a hypothetical game with great AI?
    As specifically your should look like. It is possible for example, if a particular generally difficult to explain.

    I think Battlefront is making a business out of providing an MP (more than one player) experience.  Note, I'm not comparing anything other than that both games are in the same genre and one provides SP and MP while the other does only one.
    They have their own niche we have own. MP strongly secondary opportunity.
    I would not say that just yet BF is example of making business on the MP.
    Making business on MP is WOT or WarThunder or DOTA, not BF, sorry.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on June 14, 2014, 12:27:04 AM


    Would not expect it, seriously.
    Just you look from the perspective of the player, who sees everything as a whole,but from the perspective of a particular AI unit all see others. And do you think that it turns his back to the enemy, and the enemy AI seems that no enemies, it can quickly turn around and leave.
    In Mius will be even worse, since the viewing area even closer to reality, especially for vehicles.

    I'm talking about when they turn their back/side to enemies that they can 100% see or could see moments ago because they want to move a few feet to the side or something dumb instead prioritising facing the threat and staying put, turning in front of enemies they don't know about is all good.

    Also that thing where they leave their entrenchments in order to turn the hull to face at a side threat even though the entrenchment already protects the hull is soo annoying, even the dumbest human tank crew wouldn't do it.

    Also will mius AI be able to do that tank reposition "V" manoeuvre where the tank reverses away from the threat, turns a little bit, then drives forward to the new position?   It's good for keeping the front armor pointed at the threat instead of turning and driving in a strait line.
    Also I've always wondered if the AI knows to angle its hull a bit for tanks like the Tiger1?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on June 14, 2014, 04:58:48 AM


    Would not expect it, seriously.
    Just you look from the perspective of the player, who sees everything as a whole,but from the perspective of a particular AI unit all see others. And do you think that it turns his back to the enemy, and the enemy AI seems that no enemies, it can quickly turn around and leave.
    In Mius will be even worse, since the viewing area even closer to reality, especially for vehicles.

    I'm talking about when they turn their back/side to enemies that they can 100% see or could see moments ago because they want to move a few feet to the side or something dumb instead prioritising facing the threat and staying put, turning in front of enemies they don't know about is all good.

    Also that thing where they leave their entrenchments in order to turn the hull to face at a side threat even though the entrenchment already protects the hull is soo annoying, even the dumbest human tank crew wouldn't do it.

    Also will mius AI be able to do that tank reposition "V" manoeuvre where the tank reverses away from the threat, turns a little bit, then drives forward to the new position?   It's good for keeping the front armor pointed at the threat instead of turning and driving in a strait line.
    Also I've always wondered if the AI knows to angle its hull a bit for tanks like the Tiger1?

    You said what I wanted to say and did it much better.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 14, 2014, 06:37:21 PM
    I'm talking about when they turn their back/side to enemies that they can 100% see

    But how do you define this?  ???
    In game no any means to do this (100% checks for tank crew member recognize or not recognize enemy at moment of time).

    or could see moments ago because they want to move a few feet to the side or something dumb instead prioritising facing the threat and staying put, turning in front of enemies they don't know about is all good.
    This should be considered in each case. In global this dont have any sence. Because to such behavior affects many factors, most of which can not control directly from user (in Mius is a little more control, yes). And well, of course we can not exclude bugs :).

    Also that thing where they leave their entrenchments in order to turn the hull to face at a side threat even though the entrenchment already protects the hull is soo annoying, even the dumbest human tank crew wouldn't do it.
    It always works well for very simple and straightforward rules. If you dont want to bypass entrenchments when enemies at their side - setup the trench sector in 1 click.

    Also will mius AI be able to do that tank reposition "V" manoeuvre where the tank reverses away from the threat, turns a little bit, then drives forward to the new position?   It's good for keeping the front armor pointed at the threat instead of turning and driving in a strait line.
    Of course no. Other strange things it will not to do too.
    Just think how to do this "order" to the AI through the user interface? If it goes more than 2 clicks - this will not present.

    Also I've always wondered if the AI knows to angle its hull a bit for tanks like the Tiger1?
    Do not quite understand the question.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lockie on June 14, 2014, 07:37:04 PM
    In global this dont have any sence.
    That's a problem.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on June 14, 2014, 11:23:39 PM

    But how do you define this?  ???
    In game no any means to do this (100% checks for tank crew member recognize or not recognize enemy at moment of time).

    Does the game have a "heat" system for this?  So unit sees an enemy and that position on map gets "hot" for that unit, more enemies and enemies that are dangerous to this type of unit make the area "hotter".    "Hot" areas that have no contacts in it will "cool" over time. 
    So even without 100% real time knowledge of enemy positions and concentration, units can still "know" that there is heavy activity at a particular position and less in another so priorities armor facing towards the heavier one.

    It always works well for very simple and straightforward rules. If you dont want to bypass entrenchments when enemies at their side - setup the trench sector in 1 click.

    I mean after the battle has commenced, tank sitting in entrenchment will see an enemy threat to the side and instead of turning turret to shoot at it will drive out of the entrenchment and turn entire tank to face it, then side is vulnerable to enemy at the front.   
    Sometimes make sense for vehicle with no turret but tanks have no reasons to leave entrenchment other than retreat from close enemy.

    Of course no. Other strange things it will not to do too.
    Just think how to do this "order" to the AI through the user interface? If it goes more than 2 clicks - this will not present.

    I mean the enemy tacai knowing how to order it.
    Example:  AI tank fighting tanks to the north, Tacai wants to order  AI tank to move 30m to the east, Tacai orders the the tank south in reverse then move to new posistion instead of simply ordering move to new position.

    Do not quite understand the question.

    The Tiger1's armor is thickest when pointed at around 30 degrees to the target so it's better to have your hull angled a bit instead of pointing straight at a threat.
    (http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/images/thumb/9/9e/Tactics_angle_of_impact.png/800px-Tactics_angle_of_impact.png)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: SSPEIPER on June 15, 2014, 09:17:47 AM
    Is II SS Panzer Corps going to make an appearance in the new Mius game...?   ;)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 15, 2014, 11:00:16 AM
    Does the game have a "heat" system for this? 
    Game have many features to check some visibility aspects. But no one that would give integrally answer to this question. "Heat" system is one from this features. Answers the question - what enemies _potentially_ seen / know about them to _whole_ unit. In some moments this will be match to actual state, in some will not.


    So unit sees an enemy and that position on map gets "hot" for that unit, more enemies and enemies that are dangerous to this type of unit make the area "hotter".    "Hot" areas that have no contacts in it will "cool" over time. 
    So even without 100% real time knowledge of enemy positions and concentration, units can still "know" that there is heavy activity at a particular position and less in another so priorities armor facing towards the heavier one.
    Simplest example. Two enemies, one at 12 hours, one at 6 - where to turn front?
    In your specific example, it is necessary to calculate a lot. These hotspots need to be calculated for each unit for every enemy (in worst case), and the sense of this is near zero. Sorry, but such kind of "obvious algorithms" never work at practice.

    I mean after the battle has commenced, tank sitting in entrenchment will see an enemy threat to the side and instead of turning turret to shoot at it will drive out of the entrenchment and turn entire tank to face it, then side is vulnerable to enemy at the front.   
    Sometimes make sense for vehicle with no turret but tanks have no reasons to leave entrenchment other than retreat from close enemy.
    Tanks do not shoot through the ground (parapet of the trench), even if there turns turret. Have to leave the trench.

    I mean the enemy tacai knowing how to order it.
    Example:  AI tank fighting tanks to the north, Tacai wants to order  AI tank to move 30m to the east, Tacai orders the the tank south in reverse then move to new posistion instead of simply ordering move to new position.
    Please picture :)
    And I'll tell you why it will not work in most cases   :D


    The Tiger1's armor is thickest when pointed at around 30 degrees to the target so it's better to have your hull angled a bit instead of pointing straight at a threat.

    I think you have in mind work with tactical diagrams. Yes game write actual TD in real-time for each vehicle. I am show this feature few month ago.
    Maybe AI will take them to account a little more often.






    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 15, 2014, 11:01:16 AM
    In global this dont have any sence.
    That's a problem.
    It is an objective reality given to us. Not a problem.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on June 15, 2014, 11:43:38 AM

    Please picture :)
    And I'll tell you why it will not work in most cases   :D


    Sorry about my bad drawing, there's a better pic somewhere in the training manuals.

    The tank on the left wants to go to the position on the right.
    Red arrow is reverse, blue is forward and yellow is if a direct move order was given which would open the side armor to fire.
    (http://i57.tinypic.com/2usyj2s.jpg)
    The pic isn't to any scale.


    Quote
    Tanks do not shoot through the ground (parapet of the trench), even if there turns turret. Have to leave the trench.

    Of that sort of makes sense but is there a way to make them stay in the trench because this tank needs focus on the tanks approaching from the front which will kill him the moment he leaves the trench. 


    Also I didn't know the AI was going to use those TDs I thought they were just a player guide but the ai using them is cool.  :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 16, 2014, 07:42:20 PM
    Even if we ignore the fact that hard to move back (especially maneuvering) on far distance on a vehicle without mirrors and with bad view to sideways. It is non-generic method, since in most cases in the back (where the red line) will be an obstacle. And the tank stuck somewhere on it.
    And moving will take much more time (much longer and the tank will be under fire). Ie organized attack will be difficult, probability of hitting the tank will be higher.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 16, 2014, 07:48:53 PM
    Of that sort of makes sense but is there a way to make them stay in the trench because this tank needs focus on the tanks approaching from the front which will kill him the moment he leaves the trench. 
    As I write before - setup trench sector. If I have not forgotten anything, right-click on the sector button when it is not set on all selected units. This is not a 100% guarantee (like any other feature in the game  ;D), but increases the chance of the fact that no one is not going anywhere.

    Also I didn't know the AI was going to use those TDs I thought they were just a player guide but the ai using them is cool.  :)

    AI now uses them (not quite as in your drawing, of course  :D) and in fact they are built almost the same data as the AI builds for himself, and now (in Mius) they will be drawn and for the player too.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on June 17, 2014, 05:04:14 AM
    Even if we ignore the fact that hard to move back (especially maneuvering) on far distance on a vehicle without mirrors and with bad view to sideways. It is non-generic method, since in most cases in the back (where the blue line) will be an obstacle. And the tank stuck somewhere on it.
    And moving will take much more time (much longer and the tank will be under fire). Ie organized attack will be difficult, probability of hitting the tank will be higher.


    Come on Andrey.  If a tank is in danger of getting hit by superior fire you can be sure it will back up.  As far as seeing, that's why the tank commander risks sticking his head out of the hatch.  I can see if you simulate it getting stuck if the tank commander is dead but otherwise he should be able to direct the driver.  It's often not a question of moving more than a few dozen meters to get under cover or out of the line of fire.  The way the tanks move in game is maddening sometimes and often silly the way they expose the sides and rear.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 17, 2014, 06:33:16 AM
    Even if we ignore the fact that hard to move back (especially maneuvering) on far distance on a vehicle without mirrors and with bad view to sideways. It is non-generic method, since in most cases in the back (where the blue line) will be an obstacle. And the tank stuck somewhere on it.
    And moving will take much more time (much longer and the tank will be under fire). Ie organized attack will be difficult, probability of hitting the tank will be higher.


    Come on Andrey.  If a tank is in danger of getting hit by superior fire you can be sure it will back up.  As far as seeing, that's why the tank commander risks sticking his head out of the hatch.  I can see if you simulate it getting stuck if the tank commander is dead but otherwise he should be able to direct the driver.  It's often not a question of moving more than a few dozen meters to get under cover or out of the line of fire.  The way the tanks move in game is maddening sometimes and often silly the way they expose the sides and rear.

    If "commander risks sticking his head out of the hatch" - no big sence to stretch the time that the tank is under fire as proposed on this algo. The sence of such algo if there is a way to cover a very short, and / or all crew sit on the armor (but then it is not clear how the driver will maneuver).



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 17, 2014, 06:40:08 AM
    More humane and realistic version of this algorithm

    (http://i.imgur.com/3LcbfNo.jpg)

    Tank returns for a short distance, "on their traces" (where the probability of getting stuck is small). And then covertly moves to a new position.
    Bold blue line - mostly covered from enemy


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on June 17, 2014, 03:34:19 PM
    Well that will work better than the present behavior.

    Humane has nothing (much) to do with crew members actions in battle.  Effectiveness is what counted.  If you read most accounts of WW2 combat, the TC HAD to risk exposing his head in the hatch to gain any sufficient degree of situational awareness, especially against hidden anti-tank guns.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 18, 2014, 03:21:43 PM
    Well that will work better than the present behavior.
    Present behavior somthing like as your picture (in attack mode) in miniature :) (with short distances) - occasionally advance as letter V. As you can see this is not good. No hard criteria - not have a sence.

    Humane has nothing (much) to do with crew members actions in battle.  Effectiveness is what counted.  If you read most accounts of WW2 combat, the TC HAD to risk exposing his head in the hatch to gain any sufficient degree of situational awareness, especially against hidden anti-tank guns.
    Of course yes.
    But you must admit, this look very strange - do the max safe maneuver (by design in your picture) but with unbuttoned commander that dramatically increase the probability of loss control and/or combat capability of the tank (if commander wounded). What the sense?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on June 18, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
    I don't know what sense it would make other than that's the way it was actually done.  Unfortunately with games there is always a mathematical probability that the TC will be hit.  In actual combat they knew they were more vulnerable but felt that they had to take the chance to be effective or just to survive.

    We're not talking about traveling for miles or km in reverse.  We're talking about the tendency for the armor to expose it's sides and rear to enemy fire and to move aimlessly about.  It may make sense to a programmer but it makes no sense to a player.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on June 18, 2014, 05:24:02 PM
    I don't know what sense it would make other than that's the way it was actually done.  Unfortunately with games there is always a mathematical probability that the TC will be hit.  In actual combat they knew they were more vulnerable but felt that they had to take the chance to be effective or just to survive.

    This is just baseless speculation. How many from the 10,000+ TCs tank commanders that they felt and should? How often they do it - every day, year, month? These are questions which no answer. Therefore felt / should etc - such terms are not suitable if we talk about the simulation.

    We're not talking about traveling for miles or km in reverse.  We're talking about the tendency for the armor to expose it's sides and rear to enemy fire and to move aimlessly about. 
    Units in the game do just that if they can. For this mandatory criterion is visibility (knowledge) about enemy. And it is obvious that for a player flying over the battlefield and the tank in which visibility is limited with observation devices, this knowledge will be different. You try having a significantly greater knowledge (as a player) to criticize the behavior of a particular unit with less knowledge and limited mobility.

    It may make sense to a programmer but it makes no sense to a player.
    Reveal a terrible secret of gamedev  ;D. Opinion of the players absolutely not important in such matters. Ie if we were arguing about the color of the buttons in the menu or style of music, then perhaps someone should have take in account player's opinions.
    In simulation questions rules only robust algorithms with strong criteria. Not programmers and not players  ;D.
    Safe moving back at long distances or always rotate front armor to enemy - not robust. This work only at clear plain surfaces and for one target - a very rare situation in the game.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on June 18, 2014, 06:11:47 PM
    It's just as much baseless speculation to suppose it did not happen often.  Common sense militates against that.
    I admit the only basis I have for supposing it did is memoirs, and interviews I have seen in the past.  Michael Wittman said that his greatest fear was AT guns and that the only way to spot them was to have his head out of the hatch.  He can't have been the only one.
    You won't find everything that happened listed in a Military Archive.  To exclude everything that you don't find in triplicate in an Archive is being too rigid and mechanistic.

    As far as criteria for how armor behaves.  In real life, which you are simulating, every private would have a pretty good idea of his local situation and the likely direction to the nearest threat.  Not even a private tank driver would turn his vulnerable side towards that direction, even if he had not seen an enemy or heard a shot for a long time.

    Thirdly, you can't really claim that a tank leaving it's revetment to deal with a new threat to the side, while staying in the revetment would have given it the best protection to fire from the front and sides is an example of strong criteria and robust algorithms.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 09, 2014, 08:09:04 AM
    Some upgrades on tanks
    (http://i.imgur.com/830rfEf.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/EIX6BNv.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wildman on July 09, 2014, 09:39:43 AM
    very pretty, the new tool bar on the left looks interesting too.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Wörghern on July 09, 2014, 01:52:35 PM
    Beautiful 3D model indeed; well seen for the moving parts on the gun mantlet. Is this a Panzer III Ausf. N ?

    (http://www.armybazar.eu/data/inzeraty/1368850163panzer2.jpg)

    The Ausf. N was used to provide close support for the Tigers because the smallest vehicles were more agile in confined areas, whereas the Tiger was rather slow and vulnerable.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: lavish on July 09, 2014, 03:08:44 PM
    Closed, open. Spot the difference.  :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 09, 2014, 04:38:52 PM
    Is this a Panzer III Ausf. N ?
    (http://www.armybazar.eu/data/inzeraty/1368850163panzer2.jpg)
    Hard to say about photo. May be newed build with some issues like gun mantlet from L (this is not right for N on 1943).

    I dont see any historical (WWII times) photo with this type of mantlet on N mod.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on July 09, 2014, 05:14:26 PM
    HMMM that pz3 N.... its hmm missing a road wheel!   I think that maybe a reproduction mock up using something else as a base.... 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 09, 2014, 05:18:26 PM
    HMMM that pz3 N.... its hmm missing a road wheel!   I think that maybe a reproduction mock up using something else as a base.... 
    With high probability is newly made. With some bugs. As it called in Russian "novodel" :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Wörghern on July 09, 2014, 05:59:30 PM
    Bravo ! Well seen guys for this replica !  :o


    Here a pic again:

    (http://www.armybazar.eu/data/inzeraty/1368850164panzer1.jpg)



    ...Those are not replicas  ;D

    (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/features/2008/norway/panzers_002.jpg)

    This German tank as well as another one of the same type were encased in concrete and half-buried excepting the turrets in 1953 for using it as a close defense of the Bardufoss Air Force Base, Norway.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Ballacraine on July 10, 2014, 06:44:25 PM
    I agree with Flashburn.

    Whilst it is not a bad mock-up from a distance, a genuine Pz III would have 6 wheels, not the 5 larger wheels there.

    The one covered in concrete is indeed a Pz III variant of some sort.

    Balla.  8)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 12, 2014, 08:35:58 PM
    https://twitter.com/graviteam/status/488058553966792705


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on July 13, 2014, 08:35:27 AM
    Do they effect the damage model or just decoration?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 13, 2014, 09:36:12 AM
    Do they effect the damage model or just decoration?
    As any other parts of tanks tracks affect to armor penetration and damage model.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 29, 2014, 08:00:03 AM
    Pz IIIs in GTMF

    PzIII ausf J (kz)

    (http://i.imgur.com/F0pUnTE.jpg)

    PzIII ausf J (lg)

    (http://i.imgur.com/14Zu37H.jpg)

    PzIII ausf L

    (http://i.imgur.com/Kdljfan.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 29, 2014, 08:01:26 AM
    Pz III ausf N (late)

    (http://i.imgur.com/S1BerNi.jpg)

    Pz III flamm based on early M

    (http://i.imgur.com/AZLuXkx.jpg)

    Pz III ausf M

    (http://i.imgur.com/HDQNKcd.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 29, 2014, 08:02:00 AM
    I think this is not end with Pz III


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: hamrock on July 29, 2014, 11:14:00 AM
    For all that is holy please release this game! :) :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 30, 2014, 12:01:09 PM
    Early N

    (http://i.imgur.com/EEOZ7WW.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: FB_AGA on July 30, 2014, 01:44:52 PM
    Early N

    Nice!

    But it does not look like early... for instance a Pz3N of the 6th PzD Dec42 - Jan43.  :-\
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-07WOHI.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-07WOHI.html)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 30, 2014, 03:12:19 PM
    But it does not look like early... for instance a Pz3N of the 6th PzD Dec42 - Jan43.  :-\
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-07WOHI.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-07WOHI.html)
    This looks like first series w/o screens at all.

    next this
    (http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h353/csosus/Pz%20II%20Ausf%20N/PzKpfwIIIAusfN.jpg)
    (http://mccoy.nu/zone/panzerIIIn.jpg)

    and at end this

    (http://www.manufaktur.dk/panzer270407.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: FB_AGA on July 30, 2014, 03:32:14 PM
    So, it is not early but middle  ;)
    I doubt I've seen a Pz3N with any screens before late spring 43 while they were in service since atleast aug 42.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 30, 2014, 04:59:47 PM
    So, it is not early but middle  ;)

    With ausf N this is really hard question.
    Both with turret screens and w/o screens at all are 1942 prod, ie early  ;D.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: FB_AGA on July 30, 2014, 08:26:47 PM
    So, it is not early but middle  ;)

    With ausf N this is really hard question.
    Both with turret screens and w/o screens at all are 1942 prod, ie early  ;D.

    I am not that sure  :(

    I can't find many pictures with only turret spaced armour.

    There are some with a full complect but most of them summer 43 or late. Like this two
    aug 43
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-TIKA4W.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-TIKA4W.html)
    july 43
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-3FJOGK.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-3FJOGK.html)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: FB_AGA on July 30, 2014, 08:30:19 PM
    At the same time prior summer goes with out any:

    Tunis, late 42
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-2FMZ0F.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-2FMZ0F.html)
    Sinyavino wint 42/43
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-69CGRT.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-69CGRT.html)
    Spring 43
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-K4NONZ.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-K4NONZ.html)
    Stalingrag trophies
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-K99IAL.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-K99IAL.html)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: FB_AGA on July 30, 2014, 08:38:30 PM
    Ok, maybe Pz3N with turret spaced armour have escaped a camera. You do a great job  8)

    It is a vast field for creativity  ;D , so some provocations

    Pz3J (lg) Late (summer 43)
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-LDFA0F.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-LDFA0F.html)

    Pz3J (lg) Mega Late (aug 43)
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-6IO4XD.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-6IO4XD.html)

    Pz3M (Fl) Late (1945)
    (http://geekpic.net/dt-G1SZ7O.jpg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-G1SZ7O.html)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 30, 2014, 08:43:11 PM
    I can't find many pictures with only turret spaced armour.

    Early N with only turret screens
    (http://panzerw.narod.ru/pz3n05.jpg)

    Late N with only turret screens
    (http://panzerw.narod.ru/pz3n06.jpg)

     :D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 30, 2014, 08:52:17 PM
    Early again
    (http://www.luftwaffe.no/pzIII/16.jpg)



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: FB_AGA on July 30, 2014, 08:58:53 PM
     Ok, ok. ;D ;D

    However it looks like after spring 43  ;)  Especially with the Zimmerit.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 30, 2014, 09:21:52 PM
    Ok, ok. ;D ;D

    However it looks like after spring 43  ;)  Especially with the Zimmerit.

    1 and 3 photo is an early N, see on commanders cupola


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: FB_AGA on July 30, 2014, 09:45:41 PM
    Ok, ok. ;D ;D

    However it looks like after spring 43  ;)  Especially with the Zimmerit.

    1 and 3 photo is an early N, see on commanders cupola

    Ok, I named them as late or early according to the spaced armour. I was not right. But about amount of screens I won't give up  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 30, 2014, 10:03:52 PM
    Ok, I named them as late or early according to the spaced armour. I was not right. But about amount of screens I won't give up  ;D

    N is a hard tank, too many variants  ;D

    Yes "turret only screens" is somthing like transit series, not decribed carefully in books  ::)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 31, 2014, 12:49:29 PM
    ausf N w/o screens
    (http://i.imgur.com/9vuAWyw.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on July 31, 2014, 12:50:53 PM
    Any new gameplay stuff?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 31, 2014, 01:01:54 PM
    Any new gameplay stuff?
    Yes but is mostly hidden in code and hard to show.

    -right simulation for constant and variative delayed detonators.
    -bullets and shells physically modelled as convex objects with real sizes, not as material points.
    -new paths tracing system for shell fragments -> now near to real counts of fragments is used
    -more broken parts and more randomness in vehicles

    and lot of other staff in modelling and game-data organisations


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 31, 2014, 02:34:51 PM
    Long time since I published a "plans"  ;D

    +1) Remake all interface
    +2) Add new game features
    #3) Add new UI tools
    *4) Readjustment necessary equipment and weapons
    *5) Make rosters 
    *6) Remake some simulation basics
    7) Polishing pass
    8 ) Make ops and missions
    9) MP mode in tac battle
    10) New graphics features
    11) Work hard on AI

    *- now at work


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: chaudard on July 31, 2014, 03:00:32 PM
    9) MP mode in tac battle
    Ultimately, you will add a multiplayer mode? ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 31, 2014, 03:05:17 PM
    9) MP mode in tac battle
    Ultimately, you will add a multiplayer mode? ;D
    As I asked before, release will be somthing from 8 to 10.
    May be yes, may be no.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Void on July 31, 2014, 07:13:00 PM
    12) release? this year? Say yes please ;)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 31, 2014, 08:04:31 PM
    12) release? this year? Say yes please ;)

    8.5) release open beta - this is most real state of things


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on August 02, 2014, 06:23:04 AM
    Any new gameplay stuff?
    Yes but is mostly hidden in code and hard to show.

    -right simulation for constant and variative delayed detonators.
    -bullets and shells physically modelled as convex objects with real sizes, not as material points.
    -new paths tracing system for shell fragments -> now near to real counts of fragments is used
    -more broken parts and more randomness in vehicles

    and lot of other staff in modelling and game-data organisations

    Wow sounds great!

    But sad we won't get a new WW2 tank sim to use it in too, well not yet at least.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Lemonade on August 03, 2014, 02:16:35 AM
    (...)
    -bullets and shells physically modelled as convex objects with real sizes, not as material points.
    (...)
    Surely you don't mean MG bursts, Andrey? ;)
    I hope it won't clog our video cards during intense fire exchanges. Especially because of those nasty buzzsaws.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on August 03, 2014, 05:33:24 AM
    I do not think this will have much effect on performance.  I mean its only going to have the shell/bullet on lowest level of LOD right? 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on August 03, 2014, 06:57:43 AM
    I think you misinterpreted it.

    It's not going to give the shell a 3d model (I think).  It's so a 88mm shell can't pass through a 10mm hole anymore.  I doubt it would need to apply to things as small as mg bullets.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 03, 2014, 08:43:25 AM
    (...)
    -bullets and shells physically modelled as convex objects with real sizes, not as material points.
    (...)
    Surely you don't mean MG bursts, Andrey? ;)
    I hope it won't clog our video cards during intense fire exchanges. Especially because of those nasty buzzsaws.

    -bullets and shells physically modelled as convex objects with real sizes, not as material points.

    your video card is not in danger  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 03, 2014, 08:45:10 AM
    I think you misinterpreted it.

    It's not going to give the shell a 3d model (I think).  It's so a 88mm shell can't pass through a 10mm hole anymore.  I doubt it would need to apply to things as small as mg bullets.

    Yes you are absolutely right. "88mm shell can't pass through a 10mm hole" - this is main goal, to remove some sad penetration bugs which are inherent in the model with the "material point".


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on August 04, 2014, 05:44:07 AM
    How will a impact of a shell onto only part of the front of the shell behave?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: chaudard on August 05, 2014, 11:28:35 AM
    So, a new tactic will be: destroying an enemy shell by targeting his shell ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 06, 2014, 09:22:56 AM
    How will a impact of a shell onto only part of the front of the shell behave?

    Don't understand what you mean  ???

    In armor penetration calculations shell described as object that have a geometrical sizes. Ie to direction, velocity and shell type (used in traditional modelling) already added size, as result "so a 88mm shell can't pass through a 10mm hole"


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on August 06, 2014, 10:23:35 AM
    I mean what happens if the shell hits the edge of an armor plate so that only part of the shell impacts.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 06, 2014, 10:40:17 AM
    I mean what happens if the shell hits the edge of an armor plate so that only part of the shell impacts.
    What are the options?
    This is what _always happens_ because the projectile is wedge-shaped. In first moment only shell part impact to the plate, in next moment next part, etc.
    This is typical process for armor penetration.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 09, 2014, 11:10:34 AM
    May be last PzIII mod  ;D
    PzIII ausf J Bef
    (http://i.imgur.com/vgs6jmr.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on August 09, 2014, 11:19:54 PM
    Andrey,

    Are you still entertaining the idea of adding infantry 1/2 squads to the quick battle force mix for Mius Front?

    My reason for asking is, I mostly play quick battles and sometimes I have some decent ones and would like to be able to carry over the same battle again in my next quick battle and infantry 1/2 squads would help to simulate casualties incurred during the previous battle.

    I'm not much of a campaign player and like to simulate other battles that don't take place on the maps in this game and 1/2 squads would help in carrying those battles over again for a semi campaign feel in my next QB.

    I've tried to learn your modding tools, but I neither have the skill, time or patience to put that to a workable solution.

    Infantry 1/2 squads would be a better solution for people like me with no modding skills.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 10, 2014, 09:54:25 AM
    Andrey,

    Are you still entertaining the idea of adding infantry 1/2 squads to the quick battle force mix for Mius Front?


    (http://i.imgur.com/oue947A.jpg)

    see "supply" row  ;)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on August 10, 2014, 01:49:59 PM
    Very nice  8)

    Very much looking forward to Mius Front and hope it will be released this year. The new game looks spectacular!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on August 10, 2014, 03:27:48 PM
    Very nice  8)

    Very much looking forward to Mius Front and hope it will be released this year. The new game looks spectacular!

    Hmm around Dec would be nice...LOL!   :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

    I have been shopping around for any damned game with some brains.  Crap its hard to find anything that is really worth my time.  The AAA titles are generally BORING sauce dumb down fare.  Ugh... I dont know what is going on with modern PC games.  But it is not a good thing for the brain people on the whole.  This shift and epic market saturation of free to play is not helping!   



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on August 10, 2014, 05:27:07 PM
    I'm especially looking forward to designing some quick battles with the new game and the fact that the new game will allow you to alter the force structure and share these scenarios with the community is a very exciting idea that makes me wish for Mius Front even more.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Txema on August 10, 2014, 09:45:50 PM
    Being able to play quick battles designed by other players will add a whole new dimension to the game for me. Really looking forward to that feature !!!

     :)

    Txema


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 15, 2014, 09:16:40 AM
    Now PzIV ausf F full of hand-made track holders

    (http://i.imgur.com/KzgDnEW.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on August 15, 2014, 05:42:41 PM
    Very nice  8)

    Very much looking forward to Mius Front and hope it will be released this year. The new game looks spectacular!

    Hmm around Dec would be nice...LOL!   :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

    I have been shopping around for any damned game with some brains.  Crap its hard to find anything that is really worth my time.  The AAA titles are generally BORING sauce dumb down fare.  Ugh... I dont know what is going on with modern PC games.  But it is not a good thing for the brain people on the whole.  This shift and epic market saturation of free to play is not helping!   



    Command Ops:Battles From the Bulge


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on August 16, 2014, 10:57:54 AM
    Command Ops:Battles From the Bulge
    Why all units shoot from the middle of the counter in Command Ops? They have only one gun for all?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on August 16, 2014, 04:06:46 PM
    Command Ops:Battles From the Bulge
    Why all units shoot from the middle of the counter in Command Ops? They have only one gun for all?

    You've kind of given the answer in your question.  It is a counter representing a whole unit, not an individual squad or machine gun.  And the game represents a different scale.

    It's not a lead soldier, table top type of game the way the GT games are.  And it's not pretending to be.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on August 16, 2014, 04:08:26 PM
    Every gun is modeled in Command Ops..the fire lines are just to show you the unit is engaging. How else could you show it at a game at that scale?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 16, 2014, 04:36:29 PM
    Every gun is modeled in Command Ops..
    How to check it?

    P.S. Theoretical fire area can't be a circular if we have more than one gun due to the fact that between the arms definitely have a gaps.. But in Command Ops wiil be :(

    How else could you show it at a game at that scale?
    Model any unit as material point with specific options.
    No other way.
    Company or even squad is too complex structure, can't modelled carefully as geometric primitive or square with homogeneous properties and single position.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 16, 2014, 05:25:00 PM
    P.P.S I think more realistic from top-down wars is Armored Brigade
    http://armoredbrigade.com/


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flashburn on August 16, 2014, 07:30:18 PM
    P.P.S I think more realistic from top-down wars is Armored Brigade
    http://armoredbrigade.com/

    This looks like a company level and above command simulator from the late 90's.  No really it does.  Saw something vary similar at some army post while on a tour when I was in college back in like 97/98.  But in that thing each  nato vehicle symbols but doing los checks with the terrain per vehicle. 


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on August 17, 2014, 05:21:15 AM

    P.P.S I think more realistic from top-down wars is Armored Brigade
    http://armoredbrigade.com/

    Cool, I like armoredbrigade too.
    It's a good free game, it seems to struggle a bit with modern technologies and how they effect warfare (lots of abstractions) if it were WW2 it would be better suited.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Tanker on August 18, 2014, 02:55:48 PM
    I think the Command Ops series and The Operational Art of War are two of the best operational level games I've encountered.  I think Command Ops has the edge for ease of use and UI and understanding what is going on.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: whukid on August 25, 2014, 06:02:05 PM
    P.P.S I think more realistic from top-down wars is Armored Brigade
    http://armoredbrigade.com/

    Funny you should mention this. One of my favorite strategy games of all time, along with Ultimate General: Gettysburg. (the latter was such a good game I manage to look past the Civil War era)

    PS
    Please make Mius Front Windows 8.1 compatible. Steel Armor and GTOS are unusable for whatever reason and it's killing my inner tank rat :(


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on August 29, 2014, 06:40:59 PM
    Andrey due to the scale of the game some things have to be abstracted one of those is obviously the range ring..I have asked for the ring to change when you click on a weapon in the ES.

    You have to change your mind set when going form a tactical scale game to a coy scale one. There are things that can be abstracted in a coy level Grand tactical compared to tactical scale game and as wargame scales go up more abstraction is possible.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 29, 2014, 07:06:03 PM
    Andrey due to the scale of the game some things have to be abstracted one of those is obviously the range ring..I have asked for the ring to change when you click on a weapon in the ES.
    This is not so much scale, to do abstraction like 1 ring for group of weapons.

    You have to change your mind set when going form a tactical scale game to a coy scale one. There are things that can be abstracted in a coy level Grand tactical compared to tactical scale game and as wargame scales go up more abstraction is possible.
    In one side we have a detail list of weapons, and individual ranges for each type, but in other we have all weapons stacked one up to other and as result strange abstraction like ideal circle. I think it is brutal damage of realism w/o any reasons.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on August 30, 2014, 07:17:30 AM
    The circle is just to give you an idea of the max range of the main weapon be it anti armour or anti inf or bombard. As I said I have asked that it would chnage if you click on a weapon in the ES.

    How would you show max range of a coy's weapons? I'm struggling to work how how you want the info displayed.

    The rings don't have any impact on the game as such..they are just a guide for you to work out how close you need to be for a COy to be able to use weapons against Inf or armour or the range it's main arty can bombard.

    Under the hood Andrey lots is going on..all weapons are being monitored and fired and I believe unit footprint\formation is taken into account on how many of the weapons will be firing. This is all detail  you don't really need to know  at this scale so the info is abstracted for you otherwise you the player would end up with info overload and I expect the UI would start to become overly complex.nd up bombarding you with endless info\details. So keep what you can under the hood and give the player a UI they can easily digest.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 30, 2014, 08:41:55 AM
    (http://i.imgur.com/P8ZEeNL.png)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on August 30, 2014, 04:19:28 PM
    Not sure you understand the weapons all have the proper range..the circle is just there for your benefit so you can quickly judge when it gets into combat. You also need to remember the terrain is abstract aswell as I think it's 8 or 10 meters a pixel. Your still thinking on the lines of Graviteam tactics and other lower scale games where the terrain and nearly every thing else is abstracted to some degree.

    I hate to much abstraction in games..one reason I like games the scale of Graviteam tactics and Combat Mission. However some abstraction is needed once you start abstracting terrain. You can see the unit footprint in the game and the distance would go from the edge of the footprint and as I said each formation will modify fire intensity. Not every weapon used for anti inf say will fire out to that circle it will stick to it's parameters.

    I can see what you mean in away but your no taking into account terrain abstraction in higher scale games which then has a knock on effect.

    I can say it's not as abstract as your saying it is in that drawing.

    The circle is just a quick simple way guide for the player. If you modeled range circles in the actual minute detail the game works under the hood you'll just have a whole confusing mess or wobbly circles.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 30, 2014, 06:33:25 PM
    Not sure you understand the weapons all have the proper range..the circle is just there for your benefit so you can quickly judge when it gets into combat.
    I think they  shots on this range too ;)

    You also need to remember the terrain is abstract aswell as I think it's 8 or 10 meters a pixel.
    Your still thinking on the lines of Graviteam tactics and other lower scale games where the terrain and nearly every thing else is abstracted to some degree.
    In this aspect you are talk about quantity, not quality as ranges. For example in this game about 50-100 m horizontal discrete in SF 1 meter, in GTOS - 0.5 m - this is quantity and can be described by pure abstraction - number.
    Yes all games (and any models) has problems with quantity due to errors in computations, discretisation etc
    But I am talk about _basic_ principes, I think they cant be broken if we call game or model as realistic.
    For example WOT. It have less or more right models of tanks, armor thikness and penetration etc. But it have a "broken" scales - speeds/sizes/ranges, and as result right models, thikness and penetrations not have any sence in terms of realism. Due to "broken" basic principes.


    The circle is just a quick simple way guide for the player. If you modeled range circles in the actual minute detail the game works under the hood you'll just have a whole confusing mess or wobbly circles.
    Circle _with right center point_ is just a quick simple way guide for the player :)
    Current circles shows bugs in modelling not more, in realism terms.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on September 12, 2014, 08:02:21 PM
    Almost all planned vehicles are ready in the game. Have a look in this Facebook album:
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.732621113463832.1073741849.590904460968832&type=1


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on September 18, 2014, 08:11:40 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/Ns1YwK7.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on September 18, 2014, 09:31:18 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/xIatPpH.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on September 27, 2014, 10:36:50 AM
    New QB extension
    https://twitter.com/graviteam/status/515810261853155328


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Lemonade on September 27, 2014, 07:07:53 PM
    Lovely tanks, Andrey. What texture resolution do you guys use for vehicles? If it's no secret of course. ;)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on September 27, 2014, 07:17:45 PM
    Lovely tanks, Andrey. What texture resolution do you guys use for vehicles? If it's no secret of course. ;)
    Like in GTOS hi-res texture pack 2048x2048
    Default value is 1024x1024


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on September 27, 2014, 07:22:46 PM
    Updated pic with Pz3s and 4s
    I think it is all

    (http://i.imgur.com/u9jH8MG.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 02, 2014, 01:23:13 PM
    Some news:
    1) MF will have a simple script editor to tune the QBs and make missions
    2) Some interface options will be removed and replaced through autosave for actual interface state

    Mius-Front will have a twice bigger codebase than GTOS, up to 500K pure lines of code, its a bad news


    P.S. I hope Shield of Prophet and Operation Hooper coming soon (~month) on Steam


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on October 02, 2014, 06:37:15 PM
    Quote
    1) MF will have a simple script editor to tune the QBs and make missions
    I am very much looking forward to this aspect of the new game.  8) ;D
    I think this feature more than anything will create a very vibrant community for this series.

    Quote
    Mius-Front will have a twice bigger codebase than GTOS, up to 500K pure lines of code, its a bad news
    Why is this bad. Potential for more bugs?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 02, 2014, 07:17:56 PM
    Quote
    1) MF will have a simple script editor to tune the QBs and make missions
    I am very much looking forward to this aspect of the new game.  8) ;D
    I think this feature more than anything will create a very vibrant community for this series.
    _simple_ editor, not a programmers toy to make anythings  :D

    Quote
    Mius-Front will have a twice bigger codebase than GTOS, up to 500K pure lines of code, its a bad news
    Why is this bad. Potential for more bugs?
    [/quote]
    Yes, to much deadcode->long time to make changes or somthing new.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on October 02, 2014, 07:38:49 PM
    Quote
    _simple_ editor, not a programmers toy to make anythings  Cheesy

    Hopefully it will be simple enough to where you don't have to be a programmer to understand it, like the other tools in GTOS.
    I'm not skilled enough in making new vehicles or maps, but think I can at least master a simple editor.

    Being able to make missions and share them with the community is a step in the right direction. Gives players other(new) things to do while they wait for your next game(DLC) to be released.  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 02, 2014, 10:23:22 PM
    Quote
    _simple_ editor, not a programmers toy to make anythings  Cheesy

    Hopefully it will be simple enough to where you don't have to be a programmer to understand it, like the other tools in GTOS.
    I'm not skilled enough in making new vehicles or maps, but think I can at least master a simple editor.

    Yes, I think it will be done for the humans in most aspects  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Lemonade on October 03, 2014, 11:04:46 PM
    Lovely tanks, Andrey. What texture resolution do you guys use for vehicles? If it's no secret of course. ;)
    Like in GTOS hi-res texture pack 2048x2048
    Default value is 1024x1024
    Thanks. Really nice job guys. :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Lemonade on October 09, 2014, 11:13:24 PM
    It's been so quiet on the forums for some time. Are you guys working on a manual by any chance?  ;)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on October 10, 2014, 02:49:43 PM
    There are some Q&A discussions going on over on the Steam forum for this game.
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/275290/discussions/


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 11, 2014, 08:14:36 AM
    Some screens from quick battles
    (http://i.imgur.com/Z391jPj.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/Enu83SR.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/YOoZTNQ.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on October 11, 2014, 02:34:58 PM
    What! Just screenshots and no information about what all this means? ???

    I've noticed some new features there, it would be nice if we had some more detail about them.  ;)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 11, 2014, 07:33:21 PM
     :D
    Small script editor, you can write script and game done all other things


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on October 11, 2014, 08:11:59 PM
     8)

    Next question?
    Will we have to open any game files and use secondary out of game editing software?
    Or will it be somewhat similar as using the current Quick Battle editor?

    As long as I'm not expected to write anything in files to manipulate the editor using other then in game software editing tools, I think I could manage to master the new editor. I could never wrap my brain around the other tools in GTOS and anything remotely similar will be just as daunting.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 11, 2014, 08:21:03 PM
    Next question?
    Will we have to open any game files and use secondary out of game editing software?
    Or will it be somewhat similar as using the current Quick Battle editor?
    2nd is a right way
    We try to do this for regular players.
    Except 1 thing - localization files, but this is optional if you want to make a text description for mission.
    We dont make a text editor and this files manipulated through notepad.

    As long as I'm not expected to write anything in files to manipulate the editor using other then in game software editing tools, I think I could manage to master the new editor. I could never wrap my brain around the other tools in GTOS and anything remotely similar will be just as daunting.

    Of course you can unpack mission files using mod tools and write it manually like hardcore modder  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Dane49 on October 11, 2014, 09:27:13 PM
    Quote
    Of course you can unpack mission files using mod tools and write it manually like hardcore modder

    No, the new feature is more attainable for me.  ;D

    I'm looking forward to the new editor as much as I am the new gameplay with Mius Front.  :D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 11, 2014, 10:49:25 PM
    Tool for platoon options replacement.
    (http://i.imgur.com/2uWBmcz.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Lemonade on October 18, 2014, 12:06:05 AM
    Andrey, will there be some instructions telling us how to convert 3D models that are in industry formats to a format readable by GT series, and maybe some utilities to do the conversion? Maybe I didn't spend enough time researching this topic, but I have no idea how could I, say, take my tank model to GT series, define its vital zones (ammo store, crew compartments, armour thickness, etc. - probably by some primitives, driven by an unknown naming convention?). Plus, how to define vehicle parameters like speed, acceleration, etc.?
    Same question about infantry. How do I take a rigged and animated (what poses does GT require from an infantryman?) infantryman into a GT game?
    Some clear guidelines for modding community would be really welcome.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 18, 2014, 11:53:55 AM
    (http://i.imgur.com/r8ner0h.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 18, 2014, 12:15:51 PM
    Andrey, will there be some instructions telling us how to convert 3D models that are in industry formats to a format readable by GT series, and maybe some utilities to do the conversion?
    See manual in GTOS docs folder
    mkmodels.pdf


    Plus, how to define vehicle parameters like speed, acceleration, etc.?
    These parameters do not make sense, so never be set.
    Vehicle description available through unpack and copy one of existing ones (modtools.pdf).
    Better to start with simple model like gun or truck.

    Same question about infantry. How do I take a rigged and animated (what poses does GT require from an infantryman?) infantryman into a GT game?
    Some clear guidelines for modding community would be really welcome.
    No guidelines on this topic. GT not supported tools for animations or rigged models, only skins on existing.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 18, 2014, 08:08:27 PM
    Abandoned but still moves
    (http://i.imgur.com/KW8ivrU.jpg)

    Hits at short range from Marders. APCR - bottom, APHE - top
    (http://i.imgur.com/sSps8W4.jpg)

    Knocked out
    (http://i.imgur.com/yxzfFAM.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/VpvtoT5.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Lemonade on October 24, 2014, 09:16:57 PM
    Thanks Andrey, I'll take a look at those documents.

    Andrey, will there be some instructions telling us how to convert 3D models that are in industry formats to a format readable by GT series, and maybe some utilities to do the conversion?
    See manual in GTOS docs folder
    mkmodels.pdf


    Plus, how to define vehicle parameters like speed, acceleration, etc.?
    These parameters do not make sense, so never be set.
    Vehicle description available through unpack and copy one of existing ones (modtools.pdf).
    Better to start with simple model like gun or truck.

    Same question about infantry. How do I take a rigged and animated (what poses does GT require from an infantryman?) infantryman into a GT game?
    Some clear guidelines for modding community would be really welcome.
    No guidelines on this topic. GT not supported tools for animations or rigged models, only skins on existing.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on November 06, 2014, 10:34:42 AM
    45 mm 53-K AT gun mod.1943 (with wheels from GAZ-AA truck)

    (http://i.imgur.com/DOYv6osl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/DOYv6os.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on November 06, 2014, 10:43:00 AM
    45 mm 53-K AT gun mod.1937 (with the spoked wheels)
    (http://i.imgur.com/rHbGaXGl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/rHbGaXG.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Ultimaratio on November 07, 2014, 05:19:20 PM
    New fan here, looks pretty good!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Lemonade on November 09, 2014, 09:59:15 PM
    The more early war stuff, the better. :)
    Spoke wheeled 53-K looks great.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on December 02, 2014, 04:32:20 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiSbVJTX8Ak


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on December 04, 2014, 12:22:08 AM
    Mius-Front map changed according to WWII maps
    (http://i.imgur.com/1AT3mHil.jpg) (http://imgur.com/1AT3mHi.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on December 07, 2014, 07:14:00 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/EuX5gbIl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/EuX5gbI.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on December 12, 2014, 08:09:57 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbvjgWqPBis


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Nokturnal on December 14, 2014, 10:39:34 PM
    Did you guys team up with the Spintires devs?!

    Very impressive work. :) Looking forward to picking off some bogged vehicles!

    Moderatorial: Quote removed.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Ultimaratio on December 17, 2014, 09:12:23 PM
    Really nice. Btw will you improve the ai which controlls my allies. Or will we be able to controll all units without penalities? Furthermore what are the specs you are aiming for?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Ultimaratio on December 28, 2014, 01:17:55 PM
    I also hope that my units have a bit more ammo or at least ammo trucks are more available oh and pls fix the infantry animation when they are using artillery.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on December 28, 2014, 02:02:52 PM
    Or will we be able to controll all units without penalities?
    There is a setting for this, and in GTOS, too.

    Furthermore what are the specs you are aiming for?
    Probably not much different to GTOS.

    I also hope that my units have a bit more ammo or at least ammo trucks are more available oh and pls fix the infantry animation when they are using artillery.
    The supply situation is based on historical documents, I don't think this will be changed. :D What's wrong with the animation, could you describe this in detail (or maybe in screenshots, etc.), please?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Ultimaratio on December 28, 2014, 04:36:48 PM
    The operator crews look like a normal soldier on knees just without the rifle: http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/46492007861198557/02BF1245AA8F493F6A10126059B68C2B9DA6E83C/ (http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/46492007861198557/02BF1245AA8F493F6A10126059B68C2B9DA6E83C/) also i dont see any shell loaded.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 03, 2015, 12:06:30 PM
    New feature: multiple platoons in one reserve node

    (http://i.imgur.com/HYtwdK2l.jpg) (http://imgur.com/HYtwdK2.jpg)

    (http://i.imgur.com/pmbgm3Il.jpg) (http://imgur.com/pmbgm3I.jpg)

    (http://i.imgur.com/HlbHJphl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/HlbHJph.jpg)

    (http://i.imgur.com/rHYhzzal.jpg) (http://imgur.com/rHYhzza.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Ultimaratio on January 03, 2015, 03:36:46 PM
    Could you explain what the pictures exactly show? and will "Fall Blau" being included in Mius? How many operations will be included in the game?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 03, 2015, 05:42:55 PM
    Could you explain what the pictures exactly show?
    Pictures show the ability to place multiple platoons in one node in reserves area.
    Placed by operations designer, but uses this the player and the AI.

    How many operations will be included in the game?
    I think exactly two.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Ultimaratio on January 03, 2015, 05:58:06 PM
    Which are divided in how many campaigns?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 03, 2015, 06:54:52 PM
    Which are divided in how many campaigns?

    2 ops = 1 campaign, probably Red Army offensive at July 43


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 06, 2015, 11:43:10 PM
    Ground surface deformation tests
    (http://i.imgur.com/jpuXKXdl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/jpuXKXd.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/jrSl4E9l.jpg) (http://imgur.com/jrSl4E9.jpg)
    (http://i.imgur.com/Vx6HWdGl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/Vx6HWdG.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Ultimaratio on January 09, 2015, 10:58:00 AM
    Looks good.Any idea when we can get our hands on it?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: bozo on January 10, 2015, 11:44:13 PM
    Ok when? game looks fantastic as for the soldiers running around on fire.....stop drop and roll!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Ultimaratio on January 11, 2015, 01:14:42 PM
    Which new vehicles will be featured? (Panther please please please)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: stephsen on January 15, 2015, 12:47:31 AM
    Hey Graviteam,

    im a new fan from your game series but a old stager with tactical games like combat mission or close combat,Achtung Panzer Operation Star with his addons is really incredible indeed it remind me on Combatmission or theatre of War but with a completely own dynamic.
    Centerpiece is definitely the tank conduct and his damage model,and the new mius project is absolut revolutionary with this love for details.Absolut Amazing ! keep it up :D

    Ps: i hope the new miusproject is good modify friendly,that holds the game alive ;)



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: SSPEIPER on January 27, 2015, 11:45:50 PM
    Is this game ever coming out....?

    Have not heard much info in a long while, not even an estimate on release...?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on January 28, 2015, 08:30:49 AM
    Main sources of info are facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam) and twitter (https://twitter.com/graviteam).


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Mucka on February 22, 2015, 04:52:36 PM
    The videos of weather and mud look great but missing one nice detail, weather, mud splatter etc on vehicles.
    Is it possible to have dynamic vehicle textures that react in some way to ground conditions even if it is at a basic level such ad muddy, dusty or dry?
    Obviously this can be done with damage textures but is it too costly in resources to just beautify the game and take realism to that extra level?
    Would it be possible to mod such dynamic textures into the game? (Dynamic meaning that react to weather/ground conditions)

    Edit:
    Just seen on Facebook dynamic mud effect pictures so fantastic that you have gone to that detail but my criticism would be it looks more like an ageing effect than mud and the tracks, which one would expect to most get muddied, appear to stay clean.
    Is there anyway to make the mud effect "muddier"  ;D so it is more noticeable and also looks more like mud (thick and splattered as in "caked in mud" and also add the effect to the tracks? (If it can't be done with animated parts then the textures as close to these as possible)

    Finally any news at all on possible release date?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Nordland on March 13, 2015, 10:42:16 PM
    I was wondering, will operations from the previous game be added later on throughout development? If not, will they be added later, after the games release?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: SSPEIPER on March 19, 2015, 02:35:42 AM
    Main sources of info are facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Graviteam) and twitter (https://twitter.com/graviteam).


    I keep checking both and yet there seems to be no ETA on when this will be released.

    I expected it would have already been released by now.

    Very much looking forward to this one.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on March 19, 2015, 07:15:57 AM
    Any news for mius?  :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: hamrock on March 19, 2015, 02:19:25 PM
    Yes the waiting is awful.. I will certainly by this on release. I;m just desperate for news as well.

     :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: unsobill on April 15, 2015, 01:14:03 AM
    Hey guys any news on alpha/beta release on STEAM ?
    Thanks !


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on April 16, 2015, 10:34:55 AM
    I'm hoping this long painful wait means we get one awesome game!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: SSPEIPER on April 24, 2015, 05:49:41 AM
    I'm hoping this long painful wait means we get one awesome game!


    Its getting to be a bit of a joke now.... It is over a year past when I expected it to be out!!!

    No recent news either....!!!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on April 24, 2015, 06:20:02 PM
    At now lacks of resources to support 3 projects simultaneously.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: unsobill on April 28, 2015, 02:01:49 AM
    At now lacks of resources to support 3 projects simultaneously.

    Thank you for an update. Don't worry about the slow or fast pace, as long as you consistently moving you progressing !


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Flanker15 on April 28, 2015, 12:04:24 PM
    Makes sense.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Void on May 13, 2015, 05:41:03 PM
    At now lacks of resources to support 3 projects simultaneously.

    Thank you for an update. Don't worry about the slow or fast pace, as long as you consistently moving you progressing !

    What 3 projects? Mius, Sabow and OP Star? Or are you working on something new ?
    .....something new with the panther? :))


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 04, 2015, 01:37:37 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/vhgad3Kl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/vhgad3K.jpg)

    (http://i.imgur.com/oy8mO9Yl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/oy8mO9Y.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: SSPEIPER on July 12, 2015, 05:52:36 AM
    Thanks for the images andrey....

    Will it be possible to shoot down planes in Mius Front....?

    Will we have AA/Flak assets to protect our ground forces from air attack...?

    Also I always thought that trench systems offered very little protection for infantry
    against enemy tanks in Operation Star, will this be improved...? I remember my
    infantry were slaughtered from long range and KV's and T-34's could bombard
    the trench system from afar even if I had ordered my troops to stay hidden.

    Any chance we will see this released this year...?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on July 12, 2015, 07:38:33 AM
    Will it be possible to shoot down planes in Mius Front....?
    Yes, as in GTOS from 2013

    Will we have AA/Flak assets to protect our ground forces from air attack...?
    No

    Also I always thought that trench systems offered very little protection for infantry
    against enemy tanks in Operation Star, will this be improved...?
    Will hardly, the land is the same (even more soft due to the lack of frost), still does not have the armor-piercing properties. Any special bonuses is not expected.

    I remember my
    infantry were slaughtered from long range and KV's and T-34's could bombard
    the trench system from afar even if I had ordered my troops to stay hidden.
    Operate covertly is not equal to become invisible.
    But in the Mius, covert actions will be extended for infantry.

    Any chance we will see this released this year...?
    We still have two games in the support, will depend on how much it will take time.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on July 15, 2015, 12:31:20 PM
    f#@k the other two games..get Muis out first! ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: hamrock on July 24, 2015, 09:27:20 AM
    What Wodin said!!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 02, 2015, 08:47:48 PM
    f#@k the other two games..get Muis out first! ;D
    We still work on this


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on August 07, 2015, 05:53:05 AM
    Hi, what about a some map/mission editor for mius?I mean if there will be a user friendly editor then it will attract more peoples from other ww2 games.I would like to place my own units on the field like three Tigers here and six T-34 here and here, then unpause the game and play.Current battle editor in GTOS is very slow I still dont know what units certain group contains.It would be nice to place units right on the 3D map.

    Also will there be a vehicle like Panther or King Tiger?Thanks.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on August 07, 2015, 08:40:13 AM
    Hi, what about a some map/mission editor for mius?
    Same as in GTOS

    I mean if there will be a user friendly editor then it will attract more peoples from other ww2 games.
    GTOS have the very user-friendly mission editor (Quick battles) but it does not help in this case.

    Current battle editor in GTOS is very slow
    ???

    It would be nice to place units right on the 3D map.
    It is necessary to make a lot of unnecessary work fro player. It is not clear why this should be, visible only drawbacks: it is necessary to load the 3D view, low replayability (position of units are always the same), someone (player) has to put each unit (it is not clear why, if they can placed by your computer). In general, the idea is too strange, looks like Stone Age editor vs Computer Era editor (like GTOS QB). We not plan downgrade anything in Mius  ;D

    Also will there be a vehicle like Panther or King Tiger?Thanks.
    Of course no


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on August 08, 2015, 02:23:52 AM
    Hi, what about a some map/mission editor for mius?
    Same as in GTOS

    I mean if there will be a user friendly editor then it will attract more peoples from other ww2 games.
    GTOS have the very user-friendly mission editor (Quick battles) but it does not help in this case.

    Current battle editor in GTOS is very slow
    ???

    It would be nice to place units right on the 3D map.
    It is necessary to make a lot of unnecessary work fro player. It is not clear why this should be, visible only drawbacks: it is necessary to load the 3D view, low replayability (position of units are always the same), someone (player) has to put each unit (it is not clear why, if they can placed by your computer). In general, the idea is too strange, looks like Stone Age editor vs Computer Era editor (like GTOS QB). We not plan downgrade anything in Mius  ;D

    Also will there be a vehicle like Panther or King Tiger?Thanks.
    Of course no
    No you dont understand what I mean.Did you ever played a GEM engine game(men of war,faces of war, soldiers:Heroes of WW2)?These game have absolutely fantastic editor(and I dont think that it is a Stone Age Editor).I mean a classic editor where you can place any unit on any position at map and not just in a 3x3 tiles(and pre-defined battlegroups).The current quick battle editor isnt that bad but I want more freedom in creation.I believe that you ever used an editor from other WW2 games and now you know what Im talking about.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 13, 2015, 09:57:49 AM
    No you dont understand what I mean.Did you ever played a GEM engine game(men of war,faces of war, soldiers:Heroes of WW2)?These game have absolutely fantastic editor(and I dont think that it is a Stone Age Editor).
    Yes, but MoW have a small not linked to realistic areas. A small number of units, not used historically states and so on. Ie conceptually different game, and it looks fine to setup individual units and even unfolding weapon crates.

    I mean a classic editor where you can place any unit on any position at map and not just in a 3x3 tiles(and pre-defined battlegroups).The current quick battle editor isnt that bad but I want more freedom in creation.I believe that you ever used an editor from other WW2 games and now you know what Im talking about.
    Yes, there is a good editor, but he did not need the same for our games. Just because uncertain what to do with the results of this editor's work.

    Here, hypothetically, you set the individual unit. Start the game, then what? Who will command them? What are its objectives? (I hope you do not offer even write scripts for units? :)) With what forces it can act together?

    All these questions should have  specific answers. As part of the editors that there is: a simple (quick battle) and complex (operations editor) have these answers. Within the "editor of units" - will not.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 13, 2015, 09:58:22 AM
    Will the 64-bit version only


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on October 17, 2015, 02:52:59 PM
    No you dont understand what I mean.Did you ever played a GEM engine game(men of war,faces of war, soldiers:Heroes of WW2)?These game have absolutely fantastic editor(and I dont think that it is a Stone Age Editor).
    Yes, but MoW have a small not linked to realistic areas. A small number of units, not used historically states and so on. Ie conceptually different game, and it looks fine to setup individual units and even unfolding weapon crates.

    I mean a classic editor where you can place any unit on any position at map and not just in a 3x3 tiles(and pre-defined battlegroups).The current quick battle editor isnt that bad but I want more freedom in creation.I believe that you ever used an editor from other WW2 games and now you know what Im talking about.
    Yes, there is a good editor, but he did not need the same for our games. Just because uncertain what to do with the results of this editor's work.

    Here, hypothetically, you set the individual unit. Start the game, then what? Who will command them? What are its objectives? (I hope you do not offer even write scripts for units? :)) With what forces it can act together?

    All these questions should have  specific answers. As part of the editors that there is: a simple (quick battle) and complex (operations editor) have these answers. Within the "editor of units" - will not.
    Ok here is my idea of how the custom battle editor in this game could work.
    The editor should contain:
    3D rendered world just like when you are in mission except that there will be only a spawn menu of units.Player should be able to place any unity and anywhere at the map.A little example:I will place a 3 rifle soldiers with a tank close to each other, select them all and create a new squad and name it for example "My Squad" then I will save this squad so I can use it in the future or copy & paste it at the map again(or even use them in the current battle editor).And for the enemy I could select an already created squad.

    For the other questions: 1.Who will command them? It will be just like a normal mission so player can select if he want to command enemy or ally 2.What are its objectives? What are the objective in the current battle editor?Again player will decide if he want to attact or defend.(For the custom scripts...why not?I like it arma 3 already :))

    Additional thing should be: waypoint editor, custom triggers and objectives,..This is one of the most realistic game on the market now and I belive that many mission makers would appreciate more freedom in mission creation.I know that you are scared of bugs but I belive that you can make a good and polished editor(just like your great games).

    Also a small tooltip for units in the current battle editor would be helpful to see what it contains - (http://i.imgur.com/C88mRsV.png) (http://i.imgur.com/C88mRsV.png)(MS Paint)

    Krabb: Fixed screenshot.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 17, 2015, 03:42:42 PM
    3D rendered world just like when you are in mission except that there will be only a spawn menu of units.Player should be able to place any unity and anywhere at the map.A little example:I will place a 3 rifle soldiers with a tank close to each other, select them all and create a new squad and name it for example "My Squad" then I will save this squad so I can use it in the future or copy & paste it at the map again(or even use them in the current battle editor).And for the enemy I could select an already created squad.
    No, in Mius we can operate coy/platoon as smallest unit.

    For the other questions: 1.Who will command them? It will be just like a normal mission so player can select if he want to command enemy or ally
    What the arcade heresy? Units command from the hierarchy - the commander of a platoon -> company -> battalion.

    2.What are its objectives? What are the objective in the current battle editor?
    Those that are selected as the tasks. Obviously if you set individual units then it's not going to work are very common for whole platoon/coy/bn, and not have any sense for individual units.

    Again player will decide if he want to attact or defend.(For the custom scripts...why not?I like it arma 3 already :))
    We do not make the simulator of programmer, what scripts do you mean?

    Also a small tooltip for units in the current battle editor would be helpful to see what it contains
    This level of detail is not necessary.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on October 18, 2015, 03:51:02 PM
    Quote
    No, in Mius we can operate coy/platoon as smallest unit.
    What the arcade heresy? Units command from the hierarchy - the commander of a platoon -> company -> battalion.
    Those that are selected as the tasks. Obviously if you set individual units then it's not going to work are very common for whole platoon/coy/bn, and not have any sense for individual units.
    So if I make a one man squad and tell him to move then he will stay on where he is because there is no commander?If soldiers on missions have their commanders then why we need player?Its not an arcade heresy its just how the RTS games work.Player is always the commander of units assinged to him.This is what I mean by freedom in mission making.If it is possible to command a fireteam or section or squad then why not?Im not telling you to make it arcade.
    Quote
    We do not make the simulator of programmer, what scripts do you mean?
    I dont know exactly.Ability to make custom scripts like spawn vehicle at designated position after this square was captured by player forces?Custom scripting will enable ablitity for mission maker to make a very realistic missions or just a simple and more arcade missions(but hey not everyone is a programmer so not everyone will be able to make a very customized mission).It will not make the whole game a programming simulation or arcade.There will be just ability to program or make it more arcade in editor and it will be player decision so your game will still be realistic at its core.
    Quote
    This level of detail is not necessary.
    Not necessary but very helpful(at least for me).

    Also a small side question: Is it possible in the battle editor to add or rotate deployment nodes?Just like in the operation editor?Or is it possible for a user to access the code so I can try to change it?I believe it is just one piece of code applying to every map(4 nodes in the center, 3 at every side, 2 at every corner).


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 18, 2015, 04:28:47 PM
    So if I make a one man squad and tell him to move then he will stay on where he is because there is no commander?If soldiers on missions have their commanders then why we need player?Its not an arcade heresy its just how the RTS games work.Player is always the commander of units assinged to him.This is what I mean by freedom in mission making.If it is possible to command a fireteam or section or squad then why not?Im not telling you to make it arcade.

    For RTS it is definitely, but OpStar/Mius-Front not RTS, and it is natural that such strange things will not present.
    We do not operate units, and even very rare operate squads. Orders for management of individual units to a groups etc, is meaningless.

    I dont know exactly.Ability to make custom scripts like spawn vehicle at designated position after this square was captured by player forces?Custom scripting will enable ablitity for mission maker to make a very realistic missions or just a simple and more arcade missions(but hey not everyone is a programmer so not everyone will be able to make a very customized mission).It will not make the whole game a programming simulation or arcade.There will be just ability to program or make it more arcade in editor and it will be player decision so your game will still be realistic at its core.

    However, scripting style like Arma/OFP, contrary to the whole concept of the game, because a lot of questions that have no answers. For example what if the script of the unit contrary to the instructions of the whole platoon?
    In game to many units and no sense to "program" them individually. It is a titanic work, such as scripts for 1,000 soldiers to do, even in small groups. The mechanisms for this someone has to do, and they are 100% will not be used by developers of the game, and I'm sure no one in their right mind would use them from the players.

    This does not mean that there will be opportunities to make custom missions, but this option will not covered individual units or squads, only for platoon+ level.

    Also a small side question: Is it possible in the battle editor to add or rotate deployment nodes?Just like in the operation editor?Or is it possible for a user to access the code so I can try to change it?I believe it is just one piece of code applying to every map(4 nodes in the center, 3 at every side, 2 at every corner).
    It is possible, but what is needed is not so clear?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on October 18, 2015, 07:24:35 PM
    Quote
    For RTS it is definitely, but OpStar/Mius-Front not RTS, and it is natural that such strange things will not present.
    We do not operate units, and even very rare operate squads. Orders for management of individual units to a groups etc, is meaningless.
    However, scripting style like Arma/OFP, contrary to the whole concept of the game, because a lot of questions that have no answers. For example what if the script of the unit contrary to the instructions of the whole platoon?
    In game to many units and no sense to "program" them individually. It is a titanic work, such as scripts for 1,000 soldiers to do, even in small groups. The mechanisms for this someone has to do, and they are 100% will not be used by developers of the game, and I'm sure no one in their right mind would use them from the players.
    This does not mean that there will be opportunities to make custom missions, but this option will not covered individual units or squads, only for platoon+ level.
    As far as I know you cant command only one unit in the squad in GTOS.You can command only squads in platoon so you cant tell one soldier in the squad to go left and the rest of the squad to go right.For this there should be a waypoint system so you can tell your squad to go somewhere.Arma editor would be just perfect for this.Imagine the current battle editor combined with Arma editor.What I dont like about current editor is unit placement(deployment nodes).I want to place my platoon anywhere on the map and not be limited to some nodes.Or place them on those green squares.Basically what this battle editor need is the squad editor(I know that you can operate only platoons+ but those platoons are created from squads so when I place in game one German MG platoon I got 6 MG squads and one inf. command squad under my control) and better platoon placement with waypoint system(not a completely new editor but just overhauled the old one and I belive that developers can also use it)
    Quote
    It is possible, but what is needed is not so clear?
    There is a 24 deployment nodes in the quick battle editor but the maximum should be 36 nodes(4 nodes for every square).I need more deployment nodes in the quick battle editor.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 18, 2015, 11:27:26 PM
    As far as I know you cant command only one unit in the squad in GTOS.You can command only squads in platoon so you cant tell one soldier in the squad to go left and the rest of the squad to go right.For this there should be a waypoint system so you can tell your squad to go somewhere.
    Strictly speaking it is not right, but the player has no interface to do it. In your original example figured units (individual soldiers?)


    Arma editor would be just perfect for this.
    Arma editor operates fewer units. For ~100 units this can be justified.
    if you have 10 units you can do for them the choice of clothing and items management
    if you have a 100 units it is possible but not good
    if you have a 1000 units this is a completely unnecessary feature

    with unit scripts it the same case

    Imagine the current battle editor combined with Arma editor.What I dont like about current editor is unit placement(deployment nodes).I want to place my platoon anywhere on the map and not be limited to some nodes.
    Or place them on those green squares.
    Any additional functionality should give a positive effect, or do not understand why it should be done. What will get this manual placement of units anywhere? What's the point of this?
    Imagine we can do it, but whats next?

    Basically what this battle editor need is the squad editor(I know that you can operate only platoons+ but those platoons are created from squads so when I place in game one German MG platoon I got 6 MG squads and one inf. command squad under my control) and better platoon placement with waypoint system(not a completely new editor but just overhauled the old one and I belive that developers can also use it)
    I do not quite understand, it's all there for a long time, if we are talking about a group of platoon+. It is not clear why we need to do another one like it.

    There is a 24 deployment nodes in the quick battle editor but the maximum should be 36 nodes(4 nodes for every square).I need more deployment nodes in the quick battle editor.
    This is possible, but in the average case stable performance is not enough for a 24 nodes, fully-filled units, in worst case this give up to 4K units, it is too much.
    Perhaps when 24 will always be achievable will be the extended scheme for 36 nodes or more.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on October 19, 2015, 03:43:13 PM
    Quote
    Strictly speaking it is not right, but the player has no interface to do it. In your original example figured units (individual soldiers?)
    Arma editor operates fewer units. For ~100 units this can be justified.
    if you have 10 units you can do for them the choice of clothing and items management
    if you have a 100 units it is possible but not good
    if you have a 1000 units this is a completely unnecessary feature
    with unit scripts it the same case
    Well we dont need to make the editor exactly same as Arma editor.In arma you can operate every soldier but in GTOS you can operate only squads and individual vehicles so the scripts or waypoints will not apply for only one soldier but for the whole squad.The editor should be build on the game possibilities and if player cant control one soldier then why the scripts should apply only on one soldier?For example: You put a tank on the field and place some waypoints and tank will follow them.Then in the middle of the road you will place a trigger and when the tank will enter this trigger it will explode(to simulate a mine explosion for example).The scripts will apply for the whole unit(tank) and not just for the tank driver or loader(individual soldiers).If you place a 1000 units then you probably dont want to script each one(I dont even know why) but just select them all and place a waypoint(considering that you want to move your army).
    Quote
    Any additional functionality should give a positive effect, or do not understand why it should be done. What will get this manual placement of units anywhere? What's the point of this?
    Imagine we can do it, but whats next?
    It is the same problem as with HD textures.Yes you will make them look nicer and more detailed but what next?Nothing because it is just an enhancement of the old texture.Another example is the Arma 3 editor.Current 2D editor is good so why we need the 3D Eden editor?Because it is a great enhancement.Why be limited to some nodes if we can place it anywhere?It could be like il-2 sturmovik editor style on the 2D map or something like this(example): (http://i.imgur.com/807wr0b.png) (http://i.imgur.com/807wr0b.png) select what you want to spawn, click on place button and click on one of those green squares to place it.
    Quote
    I do not quite understand, it's all there for a long time, if we are talking about a group of platoon+. It is not clear why we need to do another one like it.
    Yes there is a platoon "editor" where you can edit platoon by adding squads from reserves or disbanding squads but Im takling about squad editor.Something like this(example):
    (http://i.imgur.com/pkI2PSS.png)
    (http://i.imgur.com/d2mKbon.png)
    Quote
    This is possible, but in the average case stable performance is not enough for a 24 nodes, fully-filled units, in worst case this give up to 4K units, it is too much.
    Perhaps when 24 will always be achievable will be the extended scheme for 36 nodes or more.
    I dont need to full-fill every node I just want to edit them.
    This is the current QB Editor node layout:
    (http://i.imgur.com/l5AxmRz.png)
    But I want to achieve this:
    (http://i.imgur.com/fTkQB4q.png)
    Delete nodes I dont need and Add more nodes where I want them

    Krabb: Fixed screenshot.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 19, 2015, 04:25:02 PM
    All this dialog boxes with strange design from 90s, is suitable only if you make  1-2 squads, not more
    In our games used 1000 times better tool for this
    (http://i.imgur.com/D9LnnTV.png)

    no need to reinvent square wheel


    But with different node  layouts is good idea, we thinking about it


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on October 19, 2015, 06:01:31 PM
    Quote
    All this dialog boxes with strange design from 90s, is suitable only if you make  1-2 squads, not more
    In our games used 1000 times better tool for this
    It doesnt matter how they look the most important thing is that they are simple to use.It can create as many squads as you want if it contains all available soldiers.For example: make a squad with 6 soldiers and one MG42, then make an infantry command squad, create a new platoon with 6 of those MG42 squads and one inf. command squad and you get one HMG platoon.The spawner can also be different(example):
    (http://i.imgur.com/4fzcXmh.png)
    Quote
    no need to reinvent square wheel
    I asked if it is possible for a user to change the layout.Can I mod it and make it like in my screenshot in previous post?Can a user access the code where it is defined and change it?
    Quote
    But with different node  layouts is good idea, we thinking about it
    If you can make the option to place units anywhere not relying on the nodes then we dont need any other pre-defined layouts.If you cant make it then at least let the user make his own node layout.It is in the engine already you can add,delete,rotate nodes in the operation editor so I believe you can do it in the QB editor as well.More options are always a nice things.
    Also will there be a map editor in Mius or it is a proprietary thing?
    Thanks for all replies by the way.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on October 21, 2015, 12:34:21 PM
    Quote
    I asked if it is possible for a user to change the layout.Can I mod it and make it like in my screenshot in previous post?Can a user access the code where it is defined and change it?
    I found this in the opgame.loc_def.program file but I cant find these .cfgpack files
    Code:
    i_qbattle:qbattle=()
    {
    config[s] = tabs\qbattle.cfgpack;
    ui_config[s] = tabs\int_qbattle.cfgpack;

    } //endof i_qbattle:qbattle
    Or they are those loc_def.config files?Or these nodes are stored here adv_qbattle.codelib where I cant access them?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on October 29, 2015, 10:20:40 PM
    It doesnt matter how they look the most important thing is that they are simple to use.
    if you need to make 1-3 squads, then your system is working fine, if you need something around 5-10 sqs both yours and Excel well but if necessary to make 100+ sqs as in the game, then yours not good at all. Since it needed a terrible labor intensity. If you do the somthing a little harder than fighting a battle for the forester's hut, it is unacceptable.

    As a result, in the game it never will be - the developers do not have a second life in the reserve to manually make the squads from soldiers.

    Not to mention all the other disadvantages: a fixed states, not an opportunity to diversify the hvy weapons and ammunition, making losses and so on. What is now done fully automatically.


    It can create as many squads as you want if it contains all available soldiers.For example: make a squad with 6 soldiers and one MG42, then make an infantry command squad, create a new platoon with 6 of those MG42 squads and one inf. command squad and you get one HMG platoon.The spawner can also be different(example):
    As I said the game is not working with squad, the minimum unit - a platoon. It makes no sense to make it from individual soldiers, it is counterproductive.
    Likewise, it makes no sense to place them in 3D in an editor, it's a longtime and uncomfortable, leading to unnecessary loss of game productivity due to the impossibility of effective caching.

    I asked if it is possible for a user to change the layout.Can I mod it and make it like in my screenshot in previous post?Can a user access the code where it is defined and change it?
    Yes, it's always possible to do through mod tools.
    No access to code for users of course (do not see any reason why it can be useful), but the configuration files can be changed.

    If you can make the option to place units anywhere not relying on the nodes then we dont need any other pre-defined layouts.
    Of course no. We will not to do this for obvious reasons. But some layouts its a good idea.

    If you cant make it then at least let the user make his own node layout.
    No, only predefined

    It is in the engine already you can add,delete,rotate nodes in the operation editor so I believe you can do it in the QB editor as well.
    Yes, there it is largely justified.

    More options are always a nice things.
    More options are always a _bad_ things.
    They must be checked and maintained in good working condition, need to watch that they do not interfere with each other and do not give rise non predicted combinations.
    And in Mius we strongly reducing them.

    Also will there be a map editor in Mius or it is a proprietary thing?
    As in previous games in the series (SABOW/GTOS) - it is open to everyone who is able to combine 8x8km wide height map in WGS 84 with detail maps in a cylindrical transverse Mercator projection, and convert the result in two flat images.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on November 01, 2015, 11:08:13 AM
    Quote
    if you need to make 1-3 squads, then your system is working fine, if you need something around 5-10 sqs both yours and Excel well but if necessary to make 100+ sqs as in the game, then yours not good at all. Since it needed a terrible labor intensity. If you do the somthing a little harder than fighting a battle for the forester's hut, it is unacceptable.
    As a result, in the game it never will be - the developers do not have a second life in the reserve to manually make the squads from soldiers.
    It was just an idea.It can be changed so it can be useful for both players and developers.
    Quote
    Not to mention all the other disadvantages: a fixed states, not an opportunity to diversify the hvy weapons and ammunition, making losses and so on. What is now done fully automatically.
    What do you mean by "fully automatically"?Is there a tutorial for your excel tool so I can see how it assemble squad automatically and learn it?
    Quote
    As I said the game is not working with squad, the minimum unit - a platoon
    But I can command a platoon of one squad.
    Quote
    Yes, it's always possible to do through mod tools.
    Read my PM please.
    Quote
    Of course no. We will not to do this for obvious reasons. But some layouts its a good idea.
    Well I dont exactly know the reasons you mean but I think I know why.
    Engine\Time\Knowledge can be the reason because not everyone has the time and knowledge for this.Especially if your engine hate nice new things.But I fully understand this.Some modern rts games completely lack any editor.
    Quote
    No, only predefined
    Yes, there it is largely justified.
    So it will be too complex to add OP editor features to QB editor?Predefined still better than this stock layout(hope to see 9x4 layout in the future) but it would be good as free update for GTOS and already implemented in Mius for free.Dont make it as DLC layout pack or worse as part of the big campaing DLC.Well you can add new QB layout to every new bigger(units, campaing) DLC and also make a QB layout pack DLC for those who dont want to buy the big dlc just because they want the new layout.Nah bad idea it should be free.
    Quote
    More options are always a _bad_ things.
    They must be checked and maintained in good working condition, need to watch that they do not interfere with each other and do not give rise non predicted combinations.
    And in Mius we strongly reducing them.
    I fully agree and understand this but you dont feel good when you create a nice new thing which was hard to create but community love it?
    If every new game will be just a new campaing with little additions then it will get old.It will be like another call of duty.But hey who would not want another at least 10 titles from various fronts with this engine(I wish it to Graviteam).
    Quote
    As in previous games in the series (SABOW/GTOS) - it is open to everyone who is able to combine 8x8km wide height map in WGS 84 with detail maps in a cylindrical transverse Mercator projection, and convert the result in two flat images.
    What if I have time and want to learn it?Still open for me?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on November 21, 2015, 02:27:20 PM
    Please wait Mius release, there will be a little differently than in the OpStar. Just now, it seems we are discussing two different things altogether.

    Quote
    As in previous games in the series (SABOW/GTOS) - it is open to everyone who is able to combine 8x8km wide height map in WGS 84 with detail maps in a cylindrical transverse Mercator projection, and convert the result in two flat images.
    What if I have time and want to learn it?Still open for me?

    If you can do this - yes.
    But statistics says that the probability of this is low (~1/10). In fact, the development of a new realistic battlefield area, not as fun and interesting as it sounds.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on November 22, 2015, 01:26:04 AM
    I do hope Muis front is near release.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on November 28, 2015, 03:00:41 PM
    I do hope Muis front is near release.
    I hope too


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on November 28, 2015, 03:01:28 PM
    In Mius will be achievements, trading cards, backs, emoticons and bages on the STEAM.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on December 24, 2015, 12:34:15 PM
    Really hope it gets released in 2016!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on December 25, 2015, 07:10:25 PM
    Really hope it gets released in 2016!
    I hope too  ;D


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wiggum15 on January 01, 2016, 11:06:26 AM
    Hi !

    Will there be a way to play GTOS content (DLC campaigns) with the Mius front engine ?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: chaudard on January 04, 2016, 12:26:25 PM
    Hi !

    Will there be a way to play GTOS content (DLC campaigns) with the Mius front engine ?
    This would be amazing!


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on January 25, 2016, 08:27:56 AM
    (http://i.imgur.com/zKUbkmg.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Veteran66 on January 25, 2016, 03:37:47 PM
    wauu, the flowers look good, nice textures


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on January 25, 2016, 06:25:40 PM
    Stop teasing and release the game...for the love of god!!!! :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 14, 2016, 12:19:09 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/VmMRNou.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 14, 2016, 07:27:07 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/SHe8Pkb.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 14, 2016, 11:55:25 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/y7wVvQY.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 20, 2016, 01:14:10 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/6qs3nyu.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 21, 2016, 11:43:02 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/ZxELa7u.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on February 22, 2016, 02:09:14 PM
    Does this flurry of screenshots mean the game is getting close to release?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 22, 2016, 03:02:11 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/VEssJ91.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 22, 2016, 03:06:18 PM
    Does this flurry of screenshots mean the game is getting close to release?

    Evidently, yes


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Veteran66 on February 22, 2016, 06:10:39 PM
    Does this flurry of screenshots mean the game is getting close to release?

    Evidently, yes


     :)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on February 22, 2016, 09:15:57 PM
    WOW that trailer really was a tease..

    So finally it looks like it's soon to be released. Veyr excited.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Asid on February 23, 2016, 12:11:36 AM
    (http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b498/Asid_1/Strategy%20Sim/Graviteam%20Tactics%20Mius%20Front/Brace%20MF%20is%20coming_zpsuesr9rds.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 24, 2016, 09:48:10 PM
    Mauled but did not give up
    (http://i.imgur.com/MdS0cWt.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: russkly on February 25, 2016, 05:13:18 PM
    So, at last it seems that we may be getting close!

    For those of us, who don't use Facebook, how will we know when you release the game, and where will it be available from?

    Looking forward to it.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 25, 2016, 07:35:36 PM
    how will we know when you release the game,

    We will make an announcement in this thread and on Twitter

    and where will it be available from?

    I dont know



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Asid on February 25, 2016, 08:51:46 PM
    Mius-Front Stukas bombing run

    Video: https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CcEtc6cW8AE8kzI.mp4

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/t31.0-8/12783550_1067886189937321_7574529180265392971_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlt1/t31.0-8/12764648_1067886179937322_7750640220808375624_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/12768195_1067886129937327_602455822948692906_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/12771849_1067886126603994_4732485938971407217_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12764864_1067886099937330_7913352442797772176_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12747441_1067886096603997_883637134577408954_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/12778883_1067886056604001_7739317048854438756_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12768323_1067886049937335_7744557700344698563_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/t31.0-8/12496318_1067886029937337_1910206606714750547_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/12768125_1067886023270671_786258827804113572_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/12747976_1067886006604006_5958327015571316299_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/1933718_1067885989937341_7950264880403426340_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/12771673_1067885979937342_6226791485749207715_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12764802_1067885973270676_5277161374063634662_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12771780_1067885936604013_3493347442136324659_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/12768297_1067885896604017_2545682220719260864_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/t31.0-8/12792166_1067885893270684_6852670625047061925_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/701913_1067885886604018_1620332757655153738_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/t31.0-8/12779099_1067885873270686_7079467568144516064_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/t31.0-8/12778987_1067885816604025_7748144182632439538_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/10683717_1067885813270692_6947394756505860043_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/t31.0-8/12719379_1067885809937359_7866714477182515081_o.jpg)

    (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/12792315_1067885806604026_2819839782201504977_o.jpg)



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on February 25, 2016, 09:00:17 PM
    Scale looks alot bigger..epic even.

    Love the detail on the Stukas. Though wish they had actual  transparent glass so we could see the pilot and gunner.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 28, 2016, 02:13:58 PM
    I think release date is 30.02.201?


    Please wait for the official announcement, it is not necessary to post strange things from incomprehensible forums.



    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on February 28, 2016, 02:31:39 PM
    Scale looks alot bigger..epic even.
    Its is small battle


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: wodin on February 29, 2016, 02:48:52 PM
    So excited.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on March 01, 2016, 03:32:28 PM
    Interface in tac battle (both tac map and 3D view)

    (http://i.imgur.com/nBuDJPr.jpg)

    (http://i.imgur.com/8zCJQC7.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on March 02, 2016, 06:27:33 AM
    (http://i.imgur.com/3qtAXns.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on March 03, 2016, 02:19:50 PM
    (http://i.imgur.com/9AZERgb.jpg)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Asid on March 03, 2016, 02:46:11 PM
    (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CjFQem7UIVI/SmZ5ezk2JAI/AAAAAAAAAc0/0lmBgSiYSNg/S1600-R/Real+and+Simulated+Wars+1Reducido.jpg)

    Graviteam Tactics Mius Front - Screenshots

    (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--a_po3Xcw2w/VteR31t-NwI/AAAAAAAAURI/Uosm3Z5Qpyg/s640/2016-03-01_00009.jpg)


    Read on: Click Here (http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/graviteam-tactics-mius-front-screenshots.html)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on March 03, 2016, 07:08:29 PM
    In some video I saw that there are two editors the Quick Battle and Battle Editor.What is the difference?


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on March 03, 2016, 07:13:41 PM
    In some video I saw that there are two editors the Quick Battle and Battle Editor.What is the difference?
    What?  :o


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on March 03, 2016, 07:16:20 PM
    In some video I saw that there are two editors the Quick Battle and Battle Editor.What is the difference?
    What?  :o

    In Sim Deck video there is Quick Battle and Battle Editor.What are the differences between them?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ9R283c55w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ9R283c55w)


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: andrey12345 on March 03, 2016, 07:23:24 PM
    In Sim Deck video there is Quick Battle and Battle Editor.What are the differences between them?
    Why did you decide that the Quick Battle is the editor?

    Quick Battle it is only quick battle, nothing more.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on March 03, 2016, 07:29:38 PM
    Why did you decide that the Quick Battle is the editor?

    Quick Battle it is only quick battle, nothing more.
    I think that Quick Battle is renamed Battle Editor in GTOS.So in Mius QB is just randomly generated battle and Battle Editor is the same one as we know it GTOS?

    Krabb: Fixed quotation.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krabb on March 03, 2016, 07:43:36 PM
    QB is a list of tutorial missions, missions saved in the battle editor and campaigns (custom missions), and a randomly generated battle. Battle editor is the old thing in a new guise.


    Title: Re: Any update on Mius front?
    Post by: Krylolrian on March 03, 2016, 07:46:36 PM
    QB is a list of tutorial missions, missions saved in the battle editor and campaigns (custom missions), and a randomly generated battle. Battle editor is the old thing in a new guise.
    Nice, thanks.