Graviteam

Hi,


I installed this patch to my Gamersgate installation. (patch downloaded from Graviteam site .. (sabow_mar15_patch_eng.gt2extension) )

When installed, the version number shows ..  (2410)  update: mar.15

So, the date is correct, .. but, .. surely 2410 is not the correct version number?

I see that the 3D initial deployment is working, .. unlike the 2410 that I installed from GG .. full installation.

There's also a bug, .. that crashes the program ..  :(

If you are on the 3D deployment screen, .. and you press the icon for the .. game menu .. the game crashes with the popup ...  

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Thomasew/Error.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thomasew/media/Error.jpg.html)

... clicking OK, .. returns you to the desktop.


Cheers
Tom

 

2410 mar.15 is the correct version. The bug is confirmed. Thanks for reporting!

Hi Krabb,


Isn't this going to get confusing ..  ???

I downloaded the full install of version 2410 a few days ago, .. from GG.

I purchased the Steam version yesterday, .. which gave me version 2413, .. with the 3D deployment etc.

Now, we have a patch (2410 mar.15), .. that reflects the version number of the full download at GG, .. but, with the functionality of Steam version 2413 ..  ???

 ... huh ???  ???


Cheers
Tom

 

2410 its a build number. The number that indicates how many times an exe file has been compiled. Not more.

STEAM and GG versions upgraded with two different ways:
1) Steam replace changes in initial game (and build number to ;D)
2) Standard patch only that's actually needed

As result versions have different ids (GG all time will has 2410), but practically same content and code.

mar15 is standard patch ID.

mar = March, 15 = 2015

any updates for the SABoW DvD version?

The last info about it is, if I understood well: "GT works on a stable version for the re-release on Gamersgate and Steam and after that, GT will create update for the DVD version".

ok thx for the info

I'm getting the same error, but I never get to the 3D deployment screen.  After I click the little fire icon to start the battle, it doesn't move to the deployment screen.  Then when I click the little clock icon it crashes with the same error.

I have the steam version and reinstalled in last night, still crashing  :'(

Welcome to the forum! Could you provide more details, please? What are your system specs? Did you change any options?

Mar 2015B patch, Gamers' Gate version:

M-60, Tank Commander's seat.  When pressing O key to turn the commander out so that he raises his head out of the hatch results in the hatch opening but the commander's head stays inside the tank and the binoculars cannot be used.

The loader works normally when using the O key command.

Hi Tanker,


This works fine for me. Not sure if there's a setting that controls this.  ???

I just took these pics with the Mar.15b GG version ..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Thomasew/Steel%20Armor/shot_2015_03_23_21_23_05_0000.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/Thomasew/Steel%20Armor/shot_2015_03_23_21_23_20_0001.jpg)


Cheers
Tom

Thanks Tom.  For me the commander just puts his hair out of the top of the hatch.  

Edit:Problem happens if the commander's cupola is not exactly aligned with the main gun.  In previous versions you could not even start to pop up out of the hatch but now you can get part way out but get stuck there.  Using O in this case will not cause you to go back down and pressing V will not bring your eye to the scope.  The only way to resolve it is to press 8 and close all hatches.  

It's strange that the loader can turn out even when the main gun is over his hatch but the commander must have the cupola strictly aligned with the main gun in order to turn out.

Yes of course, its not a problem its feature.

If you look at how to construct commander's seat, it can be seen that the seat for stowed position is attached to the main turret, and sit on it if the commander cupola turned not directly to main turret - is extremely difficult. In the cockpit it is all animated and working properly. Therefore, you can sit in the stowed position only if the commanders cupola is aligned.

Is it a game limitation Andrey or does it function the same way in the actual tank?  By that I mean, can the tank commander look out of the hatch regardless of where his seat is?  I hope an actual tank commander is not restricted to having to align the cupola with the main gun just to stick his head out.

I wrote before
"If you look at how to construct commander's seat, it can be seen that the seat for stowed position is attached to the main turret, and sit on it if the commander cupola turned not directly to main turret - is extremely difficult. ...."
Read bold words

I am personally not sitting in this tank. Maybe there still have some options for turning the seat, or tank commanders are taken from the descendants of apes or lemurs that can hang unsupported long time  :D. I do not know. But in fact it is constructive to do so.

Some might say that we are all descended from apes.  But let's put Darwinism to one side.

I'm just asking whether you have a factual basis to believe that an M-60 tank commander could not support himself to look out of the hatch unless the cupola was aligned with the main gun or are you speculating that he could not from looking at diagrams and photos?

Have you spoken with M-60 crew members?  Have you read technical manuals that warn that the commander cannot look out the hatch unless the cupola and the turret are aligned?  I'm curious if there is some other basis to this feature than conjecture.

the seat is connected to bottom of the chassis and unmovable, when the turret spins, he cannot use it to stand on, so he'll basically have to do a robert deniro from cape fear and hold himself up like a beast while simultaneously using binocular, etc.

You would IRL just find something to boost yourself up.  A bit O radio or whatever to support you.  But in game terms this would be bad as the model would just be hanging from nothing or clipping threw the seat frame. 

(http://i.imgur.com/Q1ANM2Kl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/Q1ANM2K.jpg)

Speaking in general human sense, a human can do different strange things, it certainly.
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/yuripasholok/765139/2030481/2030481_original.jpg)

But the game for obvious reasons only simulates only some situations from full set available.

And your pic show a bow in the mounting for the radio.   I wonder how that got there?   ;)

But in terms of simulation it would be best to have that capability and darn the appearance.  The game is unrealistically crippling an important function just because the TC can't use the seat.  I would rather be able to pop my head out of the hatch, just like I could in the actual tank, whenever I needed to and worry about the appearance of the model later. 

How much time do players actually spend looking around the inside of the tank models anyway?  Only the loader or gunner could see the suspended TC and the TC would not be looking out that way if it were under AI control.

BTW thanks for your answer.

No, you would actually do what Flashburn said.  You would stand on some piece of gear in the interior.  I doubt very much if actual TCs allowed themselves to "imprisoned" by a folding seat.

Thanks for the pictures Andrey. ;D  I looked all over the net without finding good ones. 

I understand your point about not being able to simulate all possibilities, but I think functionally important ones should be simulated.  Since a real TC would not let himself be restricted by a folding seat I think the player should not be also.

At time 1:35 in this clip the narrator speaks about and shows a standing seat for the TC to use when looking outside the tank.  The standing seat was located beneath the seat he used when he looked through the scope.  I think you can see that standing seat at the beginning of the clip when they show the view through of the interior through the TC's hatch.

It appears to me that the TC was not dependent on the folding seat on the turret to look out of the hatch.

http://fox17online.com/2014/09/09/visiting-an-m60-military-tank/ (http://fox17online.com/2014/09/09/visiting-an-m60-military-tank/)

As far as how much time people use the interior of the tank... NOT enough.  Since most features can be used via the UI, you have little real reason to interact with the interior of the tank.  Which is too bad...  In fact the only thing I really use inside the tank is the level gauge.  I really want to see more switches that work.  Lights and maybe engine starter would be nice as well .   

But I think need to be realistic

(http://worldof-tanks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/M60_Patton-1.jpg)

(http://i49.tinypic.com/rh691l.jpg)

(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2074/M60_Patton_tank.jpg)

(http://www.murdoconline.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/ng-m60a3.jpg)

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pdK6gQxM9Nw/maxresdefault.jpg)

(https://lh5.ggpht.com/DTpElgyIogTAdIbwvAou0ztcr4BtKdz_t0o4zChKSCPN0aWx2DCRXH9tG_HLa67yA0I=h900)

(http://www.davidshort.org/images/IMG_0017.JPG)

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2pr74er.jpg)

(http://www.patton-mania.com/M60_Patton/M60_the_real_thing/m60a1_09.jpg)

(http://www.worldwide-military.com/Army%20Material/EU,US%20Tanks%20plaatjes/groot/M60_1.jpg)

(http://www.military-today.com/tanks/sabra_l4.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/Bosnian_M60_A3_tank.jpg)

(http://www.turnertankers.org/m60a1.jpg)

(http://i57.fastpic.ru/big/2013/1029/8e/b4495782498e9c4e19cd14b6511a018e.jpg)

(https://lh3.ggpht.com/maN5k8GCYjykbtzyJWPp0WxPy6ePjDIIqU5j6r2Q4ZKrfaBgvkfK0n2EmFTqvuXR_g=w300)

(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/m-60-main-battle-tank-1.jpg)

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1645/17521743.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4121/4744990061_6f2e1ec65d.jpg)

(http://i62.tinypic.com/2ev5g9j.jpg)

Your turn  :D

Great new patch!  ;D I especially like how you improved the driver.

I have one issue though... the new graphic settings (2.26 and 2.27) are not correctly saved and after re-starting the game revert to default value.

edit: gamersgate version.

.. also option 2.28 .. animation smooth, .. changes back to disabled (from enabled), .. every time you start the game.


These options all work fine in the Steam version.  :)


Cheers
Tom

Will be checked in mar15c.

Did you watch the video clip I posted showing the platform below the TC's normal seat that he could stand on to look out of the hatch?  He did not need to use the seat that you show folded up against the turret.

Here's 2 pictures for you.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/128983831@N04/15538075027/in/pool-m60tanks/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/128983831@N04/15538075027/in/pool-m60tanks/)



(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p293/invertedombligo/m-60-tank-920-24_zpsvf7o6tym.jpg)
Apparently there are two positions for the TC to assume.  One, which your photos show, where he is exposed from the waist up.  The second one, shown in my photos, where just his head is exposed.

My photos don't show the whole upper body above the edge of the hatch but they do show the head is above the edge of the hatch and that the TC could look outside without the cupola and main gun being aligned.  Binoculars could be used in that position also although he could not see over that box at the front of the cupola.

So the real life TC can stick his head from the cupola hatch without having the cupola aligned with the main gun but the player cannot in the game.
The ball is in your court. :D

This pic shows it a bit better ..  :)

The Commander is halfway out of the Cupola, .. and it's about 90 degrees off from the Main Turret.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_Patton#/media/File:DM-SC-92-03658.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_Patton#/media/File:DM-SC-92-03658.jpg)


Cheers
Tom

Please read what I write.
Practically all things is possible, but some are rare or strange.

In the game, everything will remain as it is now in this aspect.

This is not stowed position - the commander is not sitting on the seat.

Both are not stowed position - the commander is not sitting on the seat.

Next turn  ;D

Now you are just being stubborn.

I have said that it is possible for the commander to be looking out of the cupola hatch when the cupola is not stowed.  You have said it is not possible, except by being an ape.  3 pictures have shown that I am correct and it is possible without being an ape.

You are incorrect to say that it is not possible for the commander to look out of the hatch except when the cupola is stowed.

That's exactly my point Andrey!  He is not sitting on the seat and the cupola is not stowed and he can still see out of the open hatch.  That's what I've said all along.  Thanks for helping me make that point clear.

That's what I've been trying to get you to understand  The picture clearly shows that the cupola does not need to be stowed for the commander to look out of the hatch.  He's clearly supporting himself in that position.  He's not doing it by levitation, and he's not sitting on the edge of the hatch opening either.  He looks quite comfortable there.

If you don't wish to simulate something in your game that's fine, but don't say it's because it's not realistic or that it was not done.

That's fine Andrey.  It's your game to develop as you see fit.  But don't say it's because it's rare or strange or unrealistic because it was none of those things.

according to the pictures, it seems pretty rare.

You can't tell by how many pictures you find on the internet how rare or common it was.  It's obvious that you would normally keep all your weapons pointed at the perceived threat.  Therefore the cupola would be normally aligned with the main gun and thus you would get more photos of it.  I've written my local American Legion Posts to try to make contact with former M-60 crewmen or maintenance folks just to satisfy my curiosity.

The point is the game allows you to open the hatch with the O key, no matter where the cupola is.  You get this really stupid animation where the hatch opens and you seem to be ready to stick your head out but you never make it if the cupola is not lined up.  It just confuses people that don't know this is a "feature".  Either make it so you can stick your head out, no matter the alignment (as you could in real life) or get rid of the half baked animation.  

The origin of this debate was that Andrey said that you couldn't turn out from the cupola hatch unless the cupola was aligned with the turret or unless you hung from the hatch like an ape.  3 pictures and a video prove you could.  Posting a billion pictures of the cupola in alignment with commanders turned out doesn't change that.

The standing step, mentioned in the news video even shows that the tank was designed and built to do that.  You didn't need to depend on that little folding seat that was fixed to the turret.

Referring to the swing away seat that Andrey shows in his photo, it appears that when it swings out into the unstowed position it would be located directly below both the opening in the turret top and the hatch in the cupola above it.  If that is the case, (it would be logical to design it that way) then the commander could sit on that seat and the turret could do 360s all day and since he is at the center of both circles formed by the turret top opening and the cupola hatch opening, nothing at all would happen. The alignment of the turret and the cupola is immaterial since both openings are concentric, not eccentric.

The attachment point of the seat support arm is on the circumference of the turret opening and it looks like the center of the seat would be at the center of the circle formed by the turret opening and the cupola opening directly above it.  I don't see why the commander couldn't sit in that seat no matter what the angle was between the cupola and the turret.  I don't see what the problem is.

I'm still trying to get someone to tell me how it was concluded that the cupola needed to be aligned in order for the commander to turn out of it.  No one has quoted any source other than supposition up to this point.