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English-speaking community => Steel Armor: Blaze of War => Topic started by: Flanker15 on March 20, 2015, 10:53:36 AM



Title: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flanker15 on March 20, 2015, 10:53:36 AM
Is it the one with the laser range finder or not ?
Also what does it's gunsight reticule for the gunner and commander look like?   I can't find it anywhere.


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flashburn on March 20, 2015, 11:27:55 AM
no laser range finder for the chieftain.  uses the 12.7mm ranging mg. 

And no idea.  MK13?  ER ugh

and also no idea as its ai only. 

 :P


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flashburn on March 20, 2015, 11:43:01 AM
Ok MK5... 

Don't know where I got mk13.  That had still brew on it and was way later on I think. 


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flanker15 on March 20, 2015, 12:02:49 PM
The critical asset that's missing for it to be playable is the reticule which is why I'm looking.


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: 33lima on March 20, 2015, 09:32:53 PM
I have some sources on the Chieftain which I could dig out. One source illustrates the reticle for (and describes the functioning of) the Integrated Fire Control System (IFCS) I remember, which had an oval which 'jumped' when tracking a crossing target the same way the M1A1's does. Other sources may also show the reticle used with the ranging MG, earlier. I could scan these if they would help anyone make the chieftain playable (a 3-d interior is nice to have but not essential, as with many of the user-made tanks in Steel Fury).


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flanker15 on March 21, 2015, 10:02:57 AM
I don't think the chieftain in game has the fire control system.


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: andrey12345 on March 21, 2015, 10:11:31 AM
I don't think the chieftain in game has the fire control system.
Have.
But it is there specific - Marconi FV/GCE Mk 4. Used ranging MG (.50) over the cannon, to determine the distance. And you can see in the game that Chieftains first shots towards the target from it, and then from the main gun.


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flanker15 on March 21, 2015, 10:20:41 AM
Yep that's what I meant :)
It doesn't have a laser range finder though right or dynamic leading right?
It has to range with the machine gun then send that to the fire control which only accounts for range not movement.
Does it have any extra night vision?  NVG for the commander or just active IR sights?


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: andrey12345 on March 21, 2015, 10:35:27 AM
Yep that's what I meant :)
It doesn't have a laser range finder though right or dynamic leading right?
But it is still have FCS  ;D
Yes instead of the laser is high velocity bullet but basically the same thing , but a little slow :D

It has to range with the machine gun then send that to the fire control which only accounts for range not movement.
All tanks in the game have FCSs with only range measurements. It is typically for 60-70s made tanks

Does it have any extra night vision?  NVG for the commander or just active IR sights?
What is the "extra"?
It have typicall OEC with backlit IR searchlight.
Yes, if you'll put iindividualny NVG, the fact that is illuminates by searchlight will be seen very well.


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flanker15 on March 21, 2015, 10:58:28 AM
Extra as in goggles the commander can use when unbuttoned.


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: andrey12345 on March 21, 2015, 11:07:03 AM
Extra as in goggles the commander can use when unbuttoned.
I think this is possible even for Reno-FT  ;D

As example night vision for soviet tank crews from early 1941
(http://alternathistory.org.ua/files/users/user1088/91048838.jpg)

Mounted on BT-7/5 tank

(http://cdn.topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2012-06/1338611220_infrarot_3.jpg)


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flashburn on March 21, 2015, 11:09:30 AM
Extra as in goggles the commander can use when unbuttoned.

Who's army and what time frame?  1st gen light amplification stuff was pretty bad.  To see vary far with those you pretty much needed an IR spot light or "pointer".  FOr a vehicle it negates one massive advantage over plain near infra red active sights, being passive.  Since you would pretty much have to paint everything with an IR spot light again to see beyond a vary short ways.  With all sorts of down sides.  Grainy picture, no light filters, just not so great.  Oh and often would make guys dizzy or even want to puke after awhile using them.  

But who's army becomes the real question and when. These sorts of devices started getting good in vary late 70's and 80's.  but restricted sales and expensive.


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: 33lima on March 21, 2015, 04:27:06 PM
Here are diagrams of the reticles for the Chieftain gunner's sight and a short description of their use. The 4-dot sight is the early one, the 9-dot, later.

(http://combatace.com/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=30068&file=max)

(http://combatace.com/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=30070&file=max)

(http://combatace.com/gallery/?module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=30069&file=max)

These are reproduced in 'Chieftain' by Rob Griffin. the other stuff I have mostly describes the later IFCS (with the Tank Laser Sight) but includes lots of component and interior photographs.

You can hear the tank commander giving a quick Fire Control Order using the dot system, at about 0.24 and 1.40 in this video clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDAQV4fMaUk#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDAQV4fMaUk#ws)


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flanker15 on March 22, 2015, 03:19:48 AM
I assume the one in game is the nine dot one.
Hope there's a to scale one of it somewhere.

Also in the game encyclopaedia, the tank is said to have the laser sight which I guess is wrong.


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flanker15 on March 22, 2015, 08:43:57 AM
So with the one in game, after the range is found with the machine gun.  Is the range entered into a computer which sets the aimpoint of the sight like the m60 or does the gunner aim at the corresponding range mark on the reticule like the t62?


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: 33lima on March 22, 2015, 10:09:35 AM
This is a useful source, dated 1980:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/161967447/Chieftain-Volume-3-Pamphlet-33#scribd (https://www.scribd.com/doc/161967447/Chieftain-Volume-3-Pamphlet-33#scribd)

I think at this point they had the Tank Laser Sight (not sure if still with the RMG fitted, maybe as a backup?) but not the IFCS (computerised).


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: Flanker15 on March 25, 2015, 08:25:56 AM
Does anyone have the 70s era cheiftains gunnery manual?


Title: Re: Which chieften is in SABOW?
Post by: 33lima on March 25, 2015, 07:05:36 PM
I don't have the manual but in Geroge Forty's book, there is the following:

- a short narrative description by a loader of a shoot on the range using the RMG;

- a similar description, by a gunner, using the TLS (before IFCS was added);

- a detailed step-by-step description of a the drill for an engagement using IFCS, with annotated diagrams of each step.

I have no info on what the tank commander's sight reticle looked like.

Unfortunately only the first of these is much use for Iranian Chieftains, I believe. If you want to see it let me know and I'll post a scan.