Graviteam

Thanks!

Krabb replied: "certainly not in a near future".

Well, that is disappointing.  I guess I will just wait.  As I don't like running the Steam client.

Are you the same guy who made that awesome utility for Command Ops?

What utility is that?

Panther Games Enhancer- a program that allows a player to add hotspots to quickly jump to certain areas and zoom levels by a keystroke.

Yep.  I had asked Dave back in 2001 for that feature in RDOA.  Finally, when he came out with BFTB (3 games later), I decided I would roll my own.  :)  The same code worked for HTTR, COTA, and BFTB; but required considerable rework for CO2 due to the multiple floating windows.  (That's why there are separate PGE1 and PGE2.)

I searched but only found a link for PGE2.  Is PGE1 still available?

Here you go. Markshot, I can pull this down if its not o.k.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=18132480203477583605

Thank you.

I still have PGE1 if needed.  Perhaps, I should ask LnL if I can upload it even though they do not sell the older games.  It is after all the same community of players.

I would also like to second the request by MarkShot. "Will this game be offered on Gamersgate or for direct purchase?"

I prefer not to run steam client as well--in fact I won`t. I have all the other Graviteam offers and feel somewhat "biffed" that the developer refuses to offer the former option. I am certain that I am not the only fan that feels this way. Cannot understand why any developer would opt out of other sales options for those who don`t want to obligate themselves to steam in order to continue support for the developer (sounds Orwellian).

Please spare me Piracy Polemic and the Steam Apologetic. Why? Look at how Home World has been offered to all their loyal direct buyer fans. I doubt most loyal fans (with integrity) pirate games anyway.

How does this (Piracy) relate to the STEAM, it is not clear?

Steam by fact won. Sales on other markets homeopathic. Those. the costs of the launch and other logistics much more than profit.
Exactly the same story with our shop. It's sad but true.

P.S. I do not see any logical reason not buy on Steam (it is not different from GG or our store, such as the same bytes transmitted over the internet).

"I don`t see any logical reason not to buy Steam"

I stated that I am not interested in "Steam Client" (or any form of DRM) running on my personal Computer. Why is that not logical if my desire is conservative?

"How does this (Piracy) relate to the STEAM, it is not clear"

Please let me clear it up for you. Steam is about "monopoly" while offering the euphemism of security while ignoring indifference. Like I said, it`s "Orwellian" in nature and stifles other market competition by default which is why I choose not to support it in the same way I don`t support the socially derived and politically correct facebook.

You are entitled to sell or publish wherever you want. I won`t be buying "Mius" if the condition is to obligate my self to Steam as I logically described above, which is why I asked, unlike the "silent" others who share the same sentiments who were initially loyal to the development of your earlier versions of Kharkov 43, GTOS, etc.

Not hard to understand when you live in a western democracy that promotes competition in the face of social marketing giants like Steam, who conveniently stifle those (with their sanctified policy) who don`t agree by asserting they postulate illogical reason when they disagree.

Thanks for GTOS anyway. :facepalm:

Oh, now we have the conspiracy theories! ::)

We do not put DRM in any form on their games, Steam version is not exception.
Steam Client itself it is not DRM. it is rather an analogue of the Internet browser.
Here you have to write this message in the forum and use the Google or Microsoft Client, or God forgive Apple client. Are you not afraid of this terrible DRM?  ;D

Here the answer is simple. Make your own Steam with indifference and safety. No one is prohibited. If you start now, after 10 years, you'll be on a horse :)

Krabb

Keep sipping the milk.

...in a tinfoil hat. :D

To be fair to the people who do not like Steam, while Steam itself might not be considered DRM (just a distribution platform), the fact you need the client running and checking your ownership of the game, is in fact DRM. Try running the game without Steam running, it will crash. This is because of the presence of steam_api64.dll and calls made to the API. If this requirement was removed, then GTMF could be said to be DRM-free.

Personally I like Steam, and I am glad to hear that Graviteam has gotten a lot of sales from moving on to there. I do believe, if you look back a couple of years, Andrey said something about how he saw no reason to move to Steam  ;)

I also think GamersGate is a dead end unfortunately, and I'm wary of buying games there if they just go under in the near future.

However I would love to see Graviteam games on GOG.com - DRM-free - and the GOG client does a fine job of auto-updating games just like Steam.

To Shadrach.

I agree with the Gamersgate assessment. I have done business with GOG.com. In fact I repurchased the Home World Remastered series from them during the same period that it was available on Steam. I gladly paid more for it as well. I am certain there are many who would jump on the purchase option to avoid what you mentioned about Steam. It would be interesting to know how many purchased the latter on GOG.com for the reasons mentioned. My initial appeal was that Graviteam might consider offering the alternative purchase option with another store rather than take a concrete stand with Steam, unless they signed away the option.

In the meantime I have always enjoyed the Graviteam product from its first release. Especially all the DLC.

Cheers.

STEAM is a simple choice:

(1)  Developers say "buy" games as this is psychologically acceptable.  But you do not "buy", you, in fact, "lease" games.  You own NOTHING.

(2)  Sole distribution by STEAM may also be said to have a long list of benefits, the one obvious one never mentioned is "Monopoly".  There is no free market competition.  Years ago the price of games on CD/DVD came down over time.  With STEAM they can be kept artificially high forever; there are no market forces at work.

(3)  Ebay and the secondary market was real and worked.  STEAM forbids resale.  Every sale is primary market (meaning:  full price).  No customer pays anything less than full price and all sales equal developer/publisher revenue.

These are the reality of STEAM.  Say "play anwhere", "always updated", "simple installs", "piracy/malware free" ... but let's be honest, it maximizes profits at the legal consumers' expense.

Graviteam and other companies are entitled to pursue the best business plan possible; but I would appreciate a little honesty.  As opposed to STEAM is always portrayed as an altruistic choice for my benefit.  It is not.  LESS is LESS.

This is the wrong poor analogy. Using API is not DRM. But then so, too, can be called Windows is a DRM or DirectX is DRM or Chrome/IE/Firefox, even Linux is a DRM  ;D.
Any program under OS uses at least one DLL to take out the API. That's the way the modern world of software. It makes no sense to repeat this nonsense about Steam is a DRM.

But why is GOG DRM free but STEAM is not?
It's really inexplicable mystery of Millennium
 :facepalm:

GOG, GamersGate, any other Internet shops do the same.
This is illogical. Moreover, even when the games were sold on physical media, just the same thing, you are licensed and owned nothing, except for the physical media.

Why here specifically Steam?


Again, it is unclear where does STEAM? Prices put publishers or developers. Steam only offer discounts, so that it does not address the claim entirely.

There's just a different policy - a gradual decline in sales and prices. The analogue resale, but the distribution of the money goes to developers (rather than some obscure resellers).

This is paranoia, except for the last paragraph, is irrelevant to STEAM.

In my opinion, if a game requires a client to be running for it to start, and this client checks if you are the owner of the game, then this is DRM. Not *invasive* DRM like the Sony case and hidden rootkits, but still a kind of DRM.

The GOG Client is not required to either update or play the games. You can copy the game to your laptop and continue playing. You can bring it to a friend on a USB stick and play.

Games distributed through Steam *can* be DRM-free if they do not require the Client to run. There are not a lot of them, but some software like Zoom Player does not require the client running in the background. This is up to the developer how they want to use the API and if they build in robustness to handle cases where the Steam Client is not running. If they just expect the client to be running, and if not crash, it is effectively DRM.

@MarkShot:
On Steam being a "monopoly" and keeping prices high, I totally disagree.

Steam has plenty of competition, GOG, Humble Bundle, Origin, UPlay etc etc, and developers are free to choose where to distribute their games. If anything, Steam games are ridiculously cheap these days, with constant sales, which again causes the problem for developers that gamers wait for the inevitable sale than buy the game on release.

At least for us oldies who are used to games always costing $60 or more, since the 80s, $10-20 for a good game is peanuts.

Game requires DirectX "client", Visual studio "client", MS Windows "client", etc.
But why STEAM client is exception?  ;D

Well, you do not know how it works, and on this false basis make strange assumptions. But why? :facepalm:

Will Graviteam consider selling Mius on GOG.com? Yes or No?

No. They do not take these games that we make, as reported many times. Not their specificity.

Lol ;D

Markshot, Ezra, we're on the same boat.
When I buy a game, I expect to own the copy. Not rent it.

With the advent of the digital era, it is impossible.
 Even the imagination of this opportunities in the form of a CD is not available.

You have two options - make the game your own, or a time machine and to go back 20 years ago :)


P.S. Stop this nonsense already  ;D. It makes no sense to fight with the progress  :D.

Well, I have to disagree with you, Andrey, because I have a different definition of a progress. :)
GoG allows me not only to own copies of games that I have purchased, but I also don't need any client software to run them. So even if GoG goes out of business, I can still play games that I bought there. Can you say the same about Steam?

However, if you (GoG and Graviteam) couldn't come up with some sort of agreement (and I really hoped that you would, considering that Achtung Panzer: Kharkov showed up on GoG some time ago), then I understand it. I just won't buy Mius Front until it hits GoG or GamersGate as pure DRM and clientless software, that's all. No big deal and not my problem. It's you guys that are loosing revenue, not me *shrugs*.

I will buy GT:MF if it comes without butt plug.

But you still need: Visual studio "client", DirectX "client", MS platform SDK "client", MS Windows x64 "client", AMD/nVidia "client", AMD/Intel "client", etc.
Most of them are much more unpredictable and buggy then the Steam. And I do not really understand why no one requires that there is no reference to these clients?
It looks very illogical. And it makes me think that people who fight vs STEAM are under the influence of some sort of stupidly marketing.


Yes, the same thing. Steam same as GoG does not own the games, and what will happen, it does not define.
But DirectX/Windows will be abandoned first, If I were in your place, I worried about this  :D.


Perhaps you are not our client. Fortunately in the world there are plenty of games and a lot of shops, a buyer is always have a choice, and that's good.
And as I said before the games from Graviteam not have any sort of DRM, not matter where they are sold, on Steam, or somewhere else. Not need to repeat this obvious nonsense about Steam = DRM.