Graviteam

  First , thanks for the Panthers , they look great .

   now , this just confuses me ?

  2) Disabled the deployment option for units which had moved before the battle.

So now when I start a battle , those units have to start where ever they randomly land ?    Just why ?  :facepalm:

So , you know that platoon with the 88's that arrived this turn ?
Yep .. what about it ?
Well , you cant move them anywhere .. so . .. you're screwed .


So .. you want to deploy the few units that did not move before the battle ?
And these units were here before the others arrived ...  
But I cant deploy where I want to because the units that turned up later ,  decided to stand around where I had planned to dig trenches .

These changes are made so that tactical battles are not so uniform in terms of initial conditions. The newly arrived troops cannot take the most advantageous positions and are forced to turn around directly in the battle. I do not see anything strange here.
But you can arrive in advance and then you will be able to deploy the troops as you wish.

The 88's are a good example of why this doesn't work . You cannot tow them .
I lost some mortars because they had to move due to illogical deployment , support weapons still just get lost if you move them .

This is such a big mechanic change , I only got 2 turns into the last DLC and now deployment just feels like a shit show .

"These changes are made so that tactical battles are not so uniform in terms of initial conditions. The newly arrived troops cannot take the most advantageous positions and are forced to turn around directly in the battle. I do not see anything strange here."

I just had a battle , some troops arrived after .  
The ones that were there the whole time should get to deploy first  , where ever they choose , because they were there before .
But as it stands now .. troops that arrived after can some how move through time , and stop troops from digging in , by deciding to stand where the positions were going to be .

Why would fresh troops into an area arrive facing away from the enemy ?

Why does not work?
Heavy cannons that suddenly got into battle without preparation will be unprepared for it.

I do not understand what it means to move through time? Please provide screenshot.
The troops arriving on current turn cannot be deployed in advance and, therefore, can't move in time.

Please show on the screenshots how it looks and what it means facing away from the enemy? Where do the units before meeting with the enemy know how they are facing to him?

You seem distracted from my point . Please read again without my attempt at mild humor .

 "just had a battle , some troops arrived after . 
The ones that were there the whole time should get to deploy first  , where ever they choose , because they were there before ."
 Take this point first , you talk in terms of timeline , who arrived first or after etc etc .
So , in this case , the troops that were in the area first , and dug in .. should be able to deploy anywhere they want .

"But as it stands now .. troops that arrived after can stop troops from digging in , by deciding to stand where the positions were going to be . "
I cant explain that any clearer ?

And as for your question about why troops would not arrive facing away from the enemy ...
If I am defending an area , and my guns and troops are deployed facing a certain way .. explain please why any fresh troops arriving would not keep the same facing as the troops that were dug in , as it has already been determined where the enemy is , by virtue of the fact he is in front , not behind .

Same reason why 88's would not start a battle , in the middle of a field .. in front of my trenches .

I understand what you mean. Yes, this is an insoluble contradiction, as we essentially have units in each battle being re-exposed.
For turn based mode, such assumptions are inevitable.

Actually, the game has a lot of similar assumptions, such as a sequence of battles in the turn, changing the weather in the turn, digging trenches, etc.


Because they have different tasks, and the enemy is also not some kind of single concentrated object. Well, and besides, they move, and the direction of movement does not always coincide with the direction of movement strictly at the enemy.
And naturally they will have a different facing.

Split deployment into 2 phases , 1st being initial troops who can dig in  ,  after this is complete .. the fresh troops will deploy into the area on the remaining ground available , hopefully into the areas already being defended .

I can't play it like this.

random deployment is indefensible literally and figuratively.

My best heavy unit deployed right at the front line instead of along the boarder of the map where they came from?

They are randomly deployed at the other end of the map ! This breaks the game and is intolerably annoying.

Here is a screen shot of my rocket artillery spotter. The most powerful and important unit in the battle group, deployed at the opposite edge of the map from where they came. It makes no sense. It is not realistic and
It is NOT FUN. At he very least, if you want to punish your self by playing like this, give us the option of turning it off so we can make our own decisions.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1009275106631114151/7022F50B88B67E5B63C8D670710FA2300C11BABD/

If you have ever played total war series, they resolve this issue by having reinforcements arrive on the the edge of the map from which they came after the battle has started.

The idea that they would deloy the whole army randomly, piecemeal  and into nonsensical positions is laughably bad. And then you try to tell us it's more realistic !

How can we ever move battle groups toward the enemy again with out this happening?!  I am not going to play a single battle where my forces are deployed like this so it is game breaking.

I've bought every game and DLC, even the ones I don't play, just to support you guys and this is what we get. You change the whole game backward so I can't enjoy them any more .... sigh!

Exactly this .
Didnt even get to finish the new DLC .

You should have an alpha build that tests things like this . I know the RU side of the forum is more active .. was this discussed over there or anywhere ?
Feels like you woke up and decided to just change the game .

Yes, it is. And beta, and external beta. But they are testing for bugs.
There are no bugs in this feature (at least not yet found), it works exactly as planned.

Yes, of course, like other innovations and features there is also discussing it. Probably even more dramatically than in the English part of the forums.

This is good.

I dont speak or read Russian , maybe you could highlight a few posts that state how they love the new mechanic ... and how it improved gameplay .

There is even a vote about this feature.

But this time the Russian-speaking community much more constructively than the English-speaking community, usually always the other way around.

I am pretty active on this forum .
A vote about this feature ?  OK I must have missed that one .. was it in English ?
How could I vote , when the first time I encounter it , is after its downloaded and installed .

Why not just make it a choice .. like artillery .
It should read

 2) Added the ability to disable the deployment option for units which had moved before the battle.

Either that or we go back to an old post I made called  " how do you want me to play? "

New blocking rules entered:
1) if the platoon moved farther than 1 square on operational map
2) if the platoon moved and did not attack but got attacked
3) if the platoon was ambushed
4) scouts are not blocked

Platoons are placed strictly near the place where they are located on the operational map (if it possible).

P.S. If any insurmountable difficulties arise again, write in this topic preferably with screens of the situation from the operational and tactical maps.

This is fun . This is also a minefield .

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004771706826274933/17FFEB66F8E3677CBD0D432068D51FA70AEE1D55/)

I still don't feel the new mechanic helps game play .
 
Arriving unit was positioned straddling a minefield on the rail line .
This would not have been my first choice as a deployment area .

This is not a fun, but a bug due to the fact that in this area the placement of equipment is possible in a small number of places. And it is already fixed.


It is your choice, it is you who determines where the Battle Group will arrive and whether it will be prepared for battle (and you can place its units) or not.
If you move a Battle Group into nodes with minefields under a possible enemy strike, you shouldn't regret that something went wrong. This is your choice.

The computer will simply put the units of the Battle group near the node where you moved it, nothing more.

What was your aim with this change .. to make it easier for the AI opponent or harder for player ?

The main goal is to increase the variety of battles, due to the fact that the initial conditions are different, and not always like in chess - placed the pieces and started the game.
A side effect, the player is restricted to spam the enemy with endless attacks, they must be prepared, otherwise there is a risk of getting a block. This indirectly also gives a variety of options - you can attack rapidly, but the position may not be advantageous, or attack with preparation.

Both - not

You are forcing me to micro manage a game that does not like being micro managed .

This is not compelling gameplay . I do not have the time to play for two hour battles . If you force me to relocate by not allowing initial placement ,  then I have to tow guns and port mortars , none of this is possible when the AI shells your position at the start of the game .
Spend 20 min plotting waypoints , just to watch the AI completely ignore it , within 10 mins its a shit show , everyone is out of transports and I have to re-plot waypoints .

I like to set up my troops and sit back and watch the action , maybe counter attack when I feel its time .

Did not quite understand what was going on.
Where did the amount of micromanagement increase?

No one forces to rush into battle without preparing with tons of mortars and guns. This is only your decision.

In any case, you would have to arrange these troops.
Orders can be given at once to the whole group or platoon. There is no need to give them on 1st unit. Some contrived claim.

Just one question and then I am done on the subject .

Why wont you make it optional ?

This is the basic game mechanics. Why make it optional?

Answer my question with a question . Politician level .

This was a basic game mechanic since March 4 2019 , not before . The game functioned perfectly well before the change .
  
How long was ability to plot in game artillery a basic mechanic , this is now optional .

So I ask again .... why not make this optional ?

Usually in games do not disable the basic mechanics in the settings. I hint at it.


I did not quite understand, there is also no choice in artillery. Only new mechanics. What is the essence of the example?

The options in most cases are quantitative, not qualitative.
Otherwise, developers will have to support two, three, ten games within one at once. What is impractical.

We cannot afford to support several games inside one, therefore new, more advanced mechanics (and interfaces) will replace the old ones without the possibility of a return/choice.
And the options will apply only to quantitative changes, or what is easily verified and does not require support.
I have not seen games where they would have done otherwise. It is not clear why such questions arise at all.

Do these battles look fine to you ?


(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116337486701/82D3D6138E1B9D74A60BB3B0F7DCA4279CEC256F/)
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116337488199/98D3F1D7520F295ACF7051E5D38AF9184E296104/)

Odds are look great in favor of Russia , how did they manage to only include these two units on German side ?
With the original system , I might have stood a chance here , If I could place my units where they might have best success , but this time I have no chance to move , just sit and die  ... this is the fun bit ? Or is that later ?

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116333960433/321800007D5E8DF2C9199959DEB58920BF8E5D16/)

This battle started with my heavy tanks deploying only a few meters short of the enemy infantry and AT guns . Please explain how this might have occurred .


My rig - i7 4770K  , 32GB vengeance ,  MSI GTX 1080 8GB  -  Runs MIUS FRONT @ 9fps during fog , nothing to fix here ?

"
I did not quite understand, there is also no choice in artillery. Only new mechanics. What is the essence of the example?"   Do you play the game much ?

Battle as a battle. I see nothing special here.

You for some reason retreated from prepared positions. What result did you expect to get?
For what reasons should retreating troops that attacked by an enemy, should be given the opportunity to take good positions?



The enemy advanced a reconnaissance group or set up an ambush. You can do that too.



It is in the fog, and if there is no fog, then the FPS is higher?

Prepared positions that are the wrong side of a minefield , genius placement , indefensible so I pulled back .
Look here again , there are two obvious battles taking place , North West top .. and Center , but the battle was chosen somewhere in the middle , taking 1 unit from each battle  ??? Nothing to do with the patch  , just odd .
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116337486701/82D3D6138E1B9D74A60BB3B0F7DCA4279CEC256F/ (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116337486701/82D3D6138E1B9D74A60BB3B0F7DCA4279CEC256F/)

Its like the game decided what could be the least fun for the player ... ahh perfect .



wait wut ... In reference to this battle
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116333960433/321800007D5E8DF2C9199959DEB58920BF8E5D16/ (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116333960433/321800007D5E8DF2C9199959DEB58920BF8E5D16/)

So , they advanced a recon group up to set an ambush ...and the several platoons of men and guns just behind the recon unit .. what about them ?
Why would a heavy tank unit advance so close ?
They didnt even advance , they just moved to the side to protect a flank and then they got attacked . So these hundreds of men just sneaked up , seems legit . :-X
Look at the Russian initial placement , they are in a decent line with guns and troops set out , these are the troops that advanced on ME , they didnt suffer from being placed in a blob . I pressed deploy , and the Russians spread out nicely , move unit mechanic not applicable to AI ?
The center unit is the only one I could place , in good position with NWr behind in support . Tell me what you would do to win this scenario ?




Usually play between 15 - 40+ .
I am sure I got higher FPS with the R9 290X 4Gb Radeon .  

Here are some example screen shots of different complexity

Smoke and fog
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116337934800/A3432A76FF0EC6ECC920B0EDFC6C51415C7138FB/ (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116337934800/A3432A76FF0EC6ECC920B0EDFC6C51415C7138FB/)

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116337932300/1A697C7D29A19DC11B801941EAD260E0595340F2/ (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116337932300/1A697C7D29A19DC11B801941EAD260E0595340F2/)

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116333976002/B6B0A8CB4571FBB33E1ACFA59CB92308AED57A78/ (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004772116333976002/B6B0A8CB4571FBB33E1ACFA59CB92308AED57A78/)

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004771706826282299/F094F6937A82D5A07AE8E0E0CB39B8EBD567F5D8/ (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004771706826282299/F094F6937A82D5A07AE8E0E0CB39B8EBD567F5D8/)

Panther is ....  :o
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004771706826277759/F62292439178FE1AF81510BA41E3536AFB485094/ (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1004771706826277759/F62292439178FE1AF81510BA41E3536AFB485094/)

The new DLC is amazing , the first few battle I had before the patch were some of the most awesome games I have played  :D ........ post patch has seen the most rage quits in a single player game   >:(

Nothing to add ?

What is the wrong side of a minefield? It has 4 sides, how do you discern which is wrong and which is not?

What does it have to do with the minefield - you personally moved the battle group, the game placed the troops near the place where you personally moved it.
If you have moves BG to the "wrong side of a minefield", then the game will place on the "wrong side" whatever it means.

The game chooses battle priority as the minimal total distances to the key points. Takes the nearest battle groups located near the direction of attack (indicated by the arrow). This is already happening 2+ years.