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English-speaking community => Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942 => Topic started by: hemisent on May 09, 2011, 10:32:07 PM

Title: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 09, 2011, 10:32:07 PM

After going thru FW's guide I'm now into the editor following his instructions. So far I've gotten up to the point of assigning contours and copying the initial T34 tank. On pg 20 the guide directs you to copy the tank and assign it as the players unit.

My problem is that in my ME the right hand screen seems to be cut off short at the very bottom. My screen stops just below the sliders for "morals %" and "experience %" There does appear to be the very top of "chance of occurence" panel but only the top outline is there. The entire screen needs to be expanded downward but I cannot figure out how. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks guys
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 10, 2011, 01:35:49 AM

Hi,

You'll have to left-click & drag the side panel upwards, to see the rest of it :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 10, 2011, 12:10:27 PM

What can I say....Thanks Kyth.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 10, 2011, 01:43:32 PM

Hemi just a few tips from one ex noobie to another to avoid mishaps due to inexperiecne s happened to me early on:

1) Don't forget to save your mission before loading it otherwise you'll lose everything you have created

2) careful not to click on reload instead of load otherwise same thing you just erased your mission!

3) when you decide to set a certain weather into your mission click on the small white arrow on blue background so the weather settings you desire to keep remain what they are.In my experience just saving it through the save function is not always a guarantee of success.

4) when assigning tanks using the division tab set the morals and experience factors to 100% .This will ensure better behaviour and responsiveness of the AI.

5) you can assign the spped you want the AI to move in your mission.Click on the Mission tab on the left side of the Mission Editor screen and one of the options is Speed.Set the AI speed at very slow to avoid a rush of the tanks at the beginnign with resulting flipped over tanks and a melee of tanks crawling over one another.

Luck!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 10, 2011, 02:12:34 PM

Quote from: frinik on May 10, 2011, 01:43:32 PM

4) when assigning tanks using the division tab set the morals and experience factors to 100% .This will ensure better behaviour and responsiveness of the AI.

A matter of preference, actually. ;)
The experience settings should reflect the level of expertise you want to represent in each unit, and they can go a long way in 'balancing' the mission.
As for the morals setting (morale ???), this affects how soon the unit reaches breaking point, as they take casualties.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 10, 2011, 03:24:31 PM

I agree it's purely personal but my experience using various settings seems ot have shown better behaviour and agressiveness /responsiveness from the AI.May be subjective though ???

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 10, 2011, 09:00:28 PM

Thanks to Frinik and Kyth
Obviously I've got a lot to learn but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it. One of my biggest problems and the reason I like the FW written tutorial so much is that I have about 60% hearing loss with a lot of ringing (tinitis). A gift left over from my time in the Marine Corps. I don't hear certain sounds or frequencies equally.

Anyway, I'm off to the ME to see what else I can bug the two of you with. ;D

Cheers All!

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 11, 2011, 09:56:46 PM

First test mission actually worked-pretty much a clone of the FW example except I added one addl zone and all worked out.

How do I set/change the orientation of the units/divisions in the editor. Right now I have my 3 tanks in zone one placed on a road. They are all heading in the opposite direction at mission start. I need to be able to orient them in the correct direction. I'm going through the video tutorials but i must be verklempt or something.

Thanks Guys

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 12, 2011, 01:27:26 AM

Here's how I do it:

Select the contour where they're positioned,

spin the map to face the direction you want,

then click the icon that looks like a 'right-turn' sign (arrow in a yellow diamond).
It's in the tool-bar along the top of the screen.

This will orientate all the countour points in the direction you're viewing.
Units will be positioned following the facing of their contour's points.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 12, 2011, 03:03:37 AM

Thanks Kyth, I'll go check that out.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 12, 2011, 03:08:32 AM

Forgot to mention, you'll have to save the changes and reload the mission, :-[

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 12, 2011, 05:57:23 AM

Hey Hemi looking forward to testing your first mission or should I say Hemission ;D

BTW I also have tinitis( whistling sound in the ear) result of an ear infection.

Cheers BTW Hemi if you assign a set zone(using the movement option) where you want your tanks to go to they will automatically turn around and head for that area....

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 12, 2011, 12:01:57 PM

Thanks guys
Right now all is working out although rather slowly. I need to get my head around movement scripts and the vids unfortunately show what the author does but are accomplished too fast and without a lot of understandable explanation, still they are very helpful.

More ??? to follow I'm sure

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 13, 2011, 08:47:56 PM

New ME questions guys.

So far I've played the test mission a few times and after quite a bit of basic refining I'm getting a little happier with the outcome. The enemy(Russian) forces are pretty much doing what I want. It's my unit I'm working with now.

I'm trying to get my 3 tank unit to follow along a road (in line formation)to a given area and set
up a defense position in trees 3 tanks abreast. I've got the outlines set and I set the operations to "defense" but upon running the mission in the ME, my tanks go everywhere but the desired location. Do I need to set the operation to "movement" first to get them to the site? If so how do I have them take the defensive posture on site in the trees. Does that call for a second outline on top of the first?

Also, how do I go about placing the different symbols when in map view, such as "defensive line" and the colored arrows showing lines of advance.

I know there were a few threads dealing with including text. Mission orders and description, messages, instructions, etc at start up and during the course of the mission. I've looked but cannot come up with them.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 14, 2011, 12:45:58 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 13, 2011, 08:47:56 PM

I'm trying to get my 3 tank unit to follow along a road (in line formation)to a given area and set
up a defense position in trees 3 tanks abreast. I've got the outlines set and I set the operations to "defense" but upon running the mission in the ME, my tanks go everywhere but the desired location. Do I need to set the operation to "movement" first to get them to the site? If so how do I have them take the defensive posture on site in the trees. Does that call for a second outline on top of the first?

May I have a look at the script for the unit? It's in the <mission name>_scripts.engscr file.

I'll reproduce some of my earlier instructions here:

If your tanks aren't dug-in, and they're on the move, you'll want to prepare some 'defensive contours' for them, single-point ones, at their destination:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_Hbtk24rNEPw/TYtostFuNuI/AAAAAAAAAQo/fQDamC7n-_U/s800/3dots.jpg)

Those 3 contours are grouped into a position, simply called 'hill', in the mission editor.

Viewed in the script file, they're listed as:

cs_positions()
{

   ext, add_trench, 1, def1, -1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, def3, -1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, def2, -1, 1, hill;
}

(the format for each line is ext, add_trench, type ( 0 = infantry 1=vehicle ), contour name, number of positions (-1 = autocalculate), type (again!), defense position name)

To restrict each contour to one vehicle only, edit the block:

cs_positions()
{

   ext, add_trench, 1, def1, 1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, def3, 1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, def2, 1, 1, hill;
}

To use the defensive position, the script for the tank unit has to look like this:

   ext, ai_move, germove2_02b, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_defence, hill, 15, 150;

Quote from: hemisent on May 13, 2011, 08:47:56 PM

Also, how do I go about placing the different symbols when in map view, such as "defensive line" and the colored arrows showing lines of advance.

There's quite a lengthy section in the 'Editor Manual' about placing map objects (page 54 - 61).
Basically, you need to place a single-point contour on the map, and link it to a 'map sprite' in the script file using the 'add_mo' command, with all the related options.

Quote from: hemisent on May 13, 2011, 08:47:56 PM

I know there were a few threads dealing with including text. Mission orders and description, messages, instructions, etc at start up and during the course of the mission. I've looked but cannot come up with them.

The threads are here:

http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=528.0 (http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=528.0)

http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3679.0 (http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3679.0)

It's a good idea to look at the Editor Manual to get an overall understanding about editing the Mission Script and Map.
These are done using a text editor. Once you get an idea how they're supposed to fit together, it's as easy as copying and pasting the lines, with a few minor changes.
You just have to know which lines to copy and edit, so get the Editor Manual and start reading. :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 14, 2011, 01:36:00 AM

I second Kyth!

That's why we not only have Grammar teachers but also dictionaries ;D

In addition to reading the manual one thing I did and still do is to open some of the stock missions or Kyth's excellent ones in the ME and take a look at the scripts.You can always copy them once you have identified moves or tactics you'd like to emulate.It's like a good complement to any tutorials or manual.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 15, 2011, 04:25:50 PM

Still trying to come to grips with the script files as they aren't making much sense to me yet. Have gone through the manual repeatedly but...not comprehending much of what is there so far.

In one of the later Fabienfreds videos he makes reference to correctly placing an AT gun and he use the ctl+F5 key ( I think, hard to make out with the noises) to go to 3d view in the map. I've tried this, gone through the manual but cannot find any reference to the 3d view. How exactly do I get to the 3d view. I've been able to place my units but only after much trial and error to make sure they are in visual range of the approaching enemy.

I'm reading the previous threads supplied by Kyth(thank you sooo much, these are really helpful) and I just found the short tutorial made by Rends, great stuff, again thanks Kyth. I guess I'm at the stage where Nodlew was. I'm able to put together a basic mission with multiple units advancing and various units in place.

Thanks guys.

Cheers!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 15, 2011, 04:38:43 PM

I think he's referring to the "Right-Ctrl 5" key command, which toggles between bird's eyeview and worm's eyeview.

It might be easier to use the mouse-wheel to zoom up and down; Right-Ctrl-8 and Right-Ctrl-2 to tilt up and down.

Don't worry, practice makes perfect. ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 15, 2011, 05:42:54 PM

Thanks Kyth
I'm also stuck on checkpoints. Trying to get my unit to follow a road to a given destination. I stumbled upon what looked like a "road/checkpoint" set of icons that came up on the toolbar but cannot duplicate it and cannot find anything but referencing to "among the road" in the manual. No clue as to how to accomplish this.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 16, 2011, 01:46:22 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 15, 2011, 05:42:54 PM

It's further down on the 'Scripts' side bar. You'll have to select the 'mode of movement' script command to open up this option:

(http://wp1055681.wp040.webpack.hosteurope.de/bilder/SF_resetparameter.jpg)

I would recommend to explore everything available in the side-bars; there are quite a lot of things not mentioned in the manual :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 16, 2011, 02:33:36 AM

But Kyth don"t you have to trace the path you want the units to follow?I tried that feature a couple of time and they did not obey they scattered.Unless you have to add a formation order as well to make sure they go in a column???

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 16, 2011, 03:36:33 AM

Correct. The mode of movement is tied in with the unit's movement path.

For example,

ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1; (Turn on "Along the road")
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4; (Turn on "Imperceptible")
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_001, false, -1, 15; (Waypoints 1 to 6)
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_002, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_003, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_004, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_005, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_006, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_setstate, 0x4, 0; (Turn off "Imperceptible")
ext, ai_setstate, 0x1, 0; (Turn off "Along the road")

It's also a good idea to set the formation as 'column'.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 18, 2011, 10:09:25 PM

I have duplicated Kyth's example above with the exception of the last two lines for now. The one thing I don't have a clue of is:
Kyth's:
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1; (Turn on "Along the road")
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4; (Turn on "Imperceptible")

mine:
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0x1, 0x4; [
   ext, ai_move, road wp01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp02, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp03, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp04, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp05, false, -1, 15;
}

In my test I have a formation of 3 tanks starting in column. When I hit the ME's "start AI" button the vehicles start to go spasdic and eventually re align themselves in column and head in the general direction of my waypoints but never actually hitting them, all the time criscrossing the road but never staying on it but keeping in column while they meander all over.

The formation is set for column(which works), the parameters are "among the road".

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 19, 2011, 01:24:02 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 18, 2011, 10:09:25 PM

In your 2nd line, you turned off the 'Along the Road' setting. That might be the problem.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 19, 2011, 12:41:18 PM

Thanks Kyth
Success at last! I added a few waypoints and my group pretty much followed the path. They seem to go off track at intersections though. Do I need to insert waypoints closer together at each intersection.? Also, how do I control the interval or spacing between my units. They like to bunch up and follow right on top of one another.

Slowly this is making sense.

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 19, 2011, 01:00:45 PM

Okay, from this point on it's all about experimentation :)

You might want to set different speeds for the different units, which might space them out a bit.

I find that trucks seem to be best behaved in following a road or path.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 19, 2011, 08:08:20 PM

Drat! I was hoping you would say there is a handy dandy slider or some other easy solution that I overlooked in the manual. I have the speed set to the slowest setting, the 3 test tanks are spaced a good distance apart at startup but they all just jam themselves up once they get into column.

I guess I'll just play around and see what I can come up with

Thanks Kyth

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 19, 2011, 08:21:38 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 19, 2011, 08:08:20 PM

3 test tanks are spaced a good distance apart at startup but they all just jam themselves up once they get into column.

Try to make some changes in tanks config files. Means, change parameter bb_round on value "10" and see what happen.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 19, 2011, 09:26:17 PM

Thanks Lockie
I'm a total noob at this and I really haven't gotten into the individual files yet..at the risk of sounding dumb, I have no clue yet how to do that.

BTW-Been following your past posts and the stuff you come up with is really informative. Keep it up please.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 19, 2011, 11:39:05 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 19, 2011, 09:26:17 PM

BTW-Been following your past posts and the stuff you come up with is really informative. Keep it up please.

OK, it's quite simple ;)
Let's start - u've 3 tanks(PzIV) in column and they quite often got in jam. So, goes to file:
...Steel Fury - Kharkov 1942\data\k42\loc_rus\levels\LEVELS\tech_cfg\pz4.engcfg
Find a line:

Code:

	//The size of technics at check of crossing
	bb_round	=	5.0;

Change this parameter, i.e. on "8" or "10" and see at er mission.

Code:

	//The size of technics at check of crossing
	bb_round	=	10.0;

but be careful, 'cause the value of this parameter affects AI to cross the narrow river badly ;) Simply, tank gets more risk to drown.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 20, 2011, 03:03:40 AM

Ok, cool. Will give it a try-thanks

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 20, 2011, 03:21:25 AM

Quote from: Kyth on May 14, 2011, 12:45:58 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 13, 2011, 08:47:56 PM

On another note to Kyth-
Just now got this to work. However, all three of my test tanks parked in exactly opposite the direction of directional arrow. I know I did this right because I have an AT gun nearby that set itself perfectly.
Any thoughts on what might have happened.

As a side question. Are there any maps that have a rail line or rail tracks in them?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 20, 2011, 04:13:52 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 20, 2011, 03:21:25 AM

It might be easier if I have a look at your script file, (the entire script file)

Quote from: hemisent on May 20, 2011, 03:21:25 AM

As a side question. Are there any maps that have a rail line or rail tracks in them?

There aren't any railroad tracks in the maps,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: whukid on May 20, 2011, 04:28:22 AM

Quote from: Kyth on May 20, 2011, 04:13:52 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 20, 2011, 03:21:25 AM

It might be easier if I have a look at your script file, (the entire script file)

Quote from: hemisent on May 20, 2011, 03:21:25 AM

As a side question. Are there any maps that have a rail line or rail tracks in them?

There aren't any railroad tracks in the maps,

To the all-knowing Kyth,
What files do I need to copy/edit to create the Finnish vehicles? I've edited just about every single one of them, but to no avail. :(

Secondly, and more on topic, is there a way to enable an "ambush" mode in the Mission editor?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 20, 2011, 05:00:58 AM

Quote from: whukid on May 20, 2011, 04:28:22 AM

[What files do I need to copy/edit to create the Finnish vehicles? I've edited just about every single one of them, but to no avail. :(

It's like importing new models to the game. Take a look at the Vehicle import tutorial (section 2) on this forum.
You need new .go files, separate from the existing ones - copy and rename them.

You'll have to setup a new nationality in the Common_res file.

- Name of the nationality and 'call-signs'
- Friend or Foe relationship with other nationalities.

Incidentally, other than German, Russian and 'target' there are some others like Rumanian, Hungarian and Italian, which already exist - you could take a look at how they're set up,

Quote from: whukid on May 20, 2011, 04:28:22 AM

Secondly, and more on topic, is there a way to enable an "ambush" mode in the Mission editor?

There's a script command for 'ambush'; specify the distance to open fire.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: whukid on May 20, 2011, 06:19:52 AM

Quote from: Kyth on May 20, 2011, 05:00:58 AM

Quote from: whukid on May 20, 2011, 04:28:22 AM

[What files do I need to copy/edit to create the Finnish vehicles? I've edited just about every single one of them, but to no avail. :(

Quote from: whukid on May 20, 2011, 04:28:22 AM

Secondly, and more on topic, is there a way to enable an "ambush" mode in the Mission editor?

There's a script command for 'ambush'; specify the distance to open fire.

Thank you very much :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 20, 2011, 01:04:21 PM

Ok Kyth
Here it is. This is my mission testing different types of vehicle movement. They come out of woods scattered and form into a column following a road to a wooded area then move freely to an ambush/defence area. everything is working ok now except for the tanks not parking in the right direction.

Have I got this right or are there errors I'm not catching? Do you need anything else.?

ext, ai_form, 2;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0x1, 0x1;
   ext, ai_move, road wp01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp02, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp03, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp04, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp05, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0;
   ext, ai_form, 0;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0;
   ext, ai_move, path wp06, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, path wp07, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, path wp08, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, path wp09, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, path wp10, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, amb01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_defence, hill, 15, 150;
}

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 20, 2011, 01:21:15 PM

The following lines don't appear to make sense:

ext, ai_form, 2;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4;
ext, ai_setstate, 0x1, 0x1;
ext, ai_move, road wp01, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp02, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp03, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp04, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp05, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0;
ext, ai_form, 0;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0;
ext, ai_move, path wp06, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp07, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp08, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp09, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp10, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, amb01, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_defence, hill, 15, 150;

What state do you want to set / turn off? Refer back to my earlier example of switching modes on and off.

Also, you might want to turn off the 'imperceptible' setting, or don't use it at all, unless you really want them to save ammo :)

By the way, I'd like to look at the 'cs_positions' block.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 20, 2011, 03:37:27 PM

Thanks Kyth
Here you go. I wasn't really sure what "imperceptibly" did other than you recommended turning it on along with "among the road" in perimeters box.

cs_positions()
{

   ext, add_trench, 1, amb01, -1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, amb02, -1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, amb03, -1, 1, hill;
}

Also, I just checked my ME.

ext, ai_form, 2;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4; mode of movement to imperceptibly
ext, ai_setstate, 0x1, 0x1; mode of movement to among the road

ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0; you're right-this does nothing-i'll delete it
ext, ai_form, 0;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0; this changes mode of movement back to none-getting rid of "among the road" I want the vehicles to move freely through the woods.

Also I just noticed this:
ext, add_trench, 1, amb01, -1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, amb02, -1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, amb03, -1, 1, hill;
I changed these to read 1 per your instructions-now I see they reverted back-how do I save them correctly?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 20, 2011, 03:55:10 PM

Okay I see the problem(s) 8)

4 points I need to make:

Use Notepad to edit and save the cs_positions() block.
The 'Imperceptible' setting is to prevent the unit from firing or taking any aggressive action. Better switch it off when they reach the battle zone.
Either set (switch on) or reset (switch off) a state; don't do both to the same state in the same line,
The last movement point appears redundant: ext, ai_move, amb01, false, -1, 15;. Just make sure that the previous point, wp10, is within 150 metres of the defense position.

Do take a look at the actual example I gave, they're not just random squiggles :)

Quote

ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1; (Turn on "Along the road")
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4; (Turn on "Imperceptible")
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_001, false, -1, 15; (Waypoints 1 to 6)
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_002, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_003, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_004, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_005, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_006, false, -1, 15; "
ext, ai_setstate, 0x4, 0; (Turn off "Imperceptible")
ext, ai_setstate, 0x1, 0; (Turn off "Along the road")

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 20, 2011, 11:46:47 PM

Kyth I must say that I am impressed by the depth of your knowledge( I am sure I am not the only one!) of SF, of the ME and of the technical details that go into mission creation etc.Sometimes it feels like you created the game :D

I am awarding you a honorary Master's Degree in SteFulogy from the University of Kharkov for your extanksive knowledge and your outstanding contribution to our love and appreciation of this great sim and its intricacies! 8)

Jokes aside, you truly have an encyclopedic knowledge and if we had you writing both the editor and users manuals I think we wouldn't need this forum anymore....

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 20, 2011, 11:57:47 PM

;D

I hope everyone can follow this little discussion, it's not total gibberish,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 21, 2011, 12:07:57 AM

Kyth
Thanks for the help. I've redone a few lines as you suggested and the units move as I want them to. The only problem remaining is that when my units actually park themselves in their 3 respective locations they all turn 180 deg opposite the directional arrow(away from the enemy). This I don't get. I'm going to try to reverse the arrow and see what happens.

Also, I'm trying out Lockie's suggestion about the tank cfg file and the files all open in notepad but they're mostly gibberish. Any easy ways to make them readable you can suggest?

Cheers All
H

Update**
Tried changing the directional arrow-made no difference. The tanks parked in whichever direction they felt like. ???

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 21, 2011, 12:56:43 AM

???

I hope you can show me the script and positions again.

If all else fails, send me the mission that you're creating and we'll see.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 21, 2011, 03:09:11 AM

Kyth
Here's the scripts

   ext, ai_form, 2;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1;
   ext, ai_move, road wp01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp02, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp03, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp04, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, road wp05, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0;
   ext, ai_form, 0;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0;
   ext, ai_move, path wp06, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, path wp07, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, path wp08, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, path wp09, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, path wp10, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_move, amb01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_defence, hill, 15, 150;

After changing 1, in the actual game folder it stuck. Seems the changes to script file from the ME don't save all the time.

   ext, add_trench, 1, amb01, 1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, amb02, 1, 1, hill;
   ext, add_trench, 1, amb03, 1, 1, hill;

If you want the actual mission let me know.

Thanks again
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 21, 2011, 03:42:34 AM

Try the following script and see if it works:

ext, ai_form, 2;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1;
ext, ai_move, road wp01, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp02, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp03, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp04, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp05, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_setstate, 0x4, 0;
ext, ai_setstate, 0x1, 0;
ext, ai_form, 0;
ext, ai_move, path wp06, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp07, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp08, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp09, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp10, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_defence, hill, 15, 150;

I hope you're learning something from all this,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 21, 2011, 07:02:01 PM

Quote from: Kyth on May 21, 2011, 03:42:34 AM

I hope you're learning something from all this,

Are you kidding? A week ago I couldn't figure how to make heads or tails out of this, now at least I think I have a shot at it. Couldn't have done it without you guys and all the assistance.

I plugged in your script file and ran the game-played out very well. The tanks continue to park in every direction but the intended one but other than that I'm a happy camper. ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 21, 2011, 08:13:22 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 21, 2011, 07:02:01 PM

The tanks continue to park in every direction

I had the same problem, but managed to resolve it. U've to use Kyth's advice how to place technics at defense positions and MANUALLY adjust every contour position to the desired direction. Each time start the mission and see how tanks parks and again... and again... I was about to become crazy ;D
I've a mission vs SU-100 and u'll see an example, when it'll be released ;)
But infantry still doesn't obey my wishes, they take ONLY ONE direction, which is not appropriate to my desire :(

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 21, 2011, 08:53:14 PM

Thanks Lockie
Yes, it's driving me crazy. I've manually adjusted the directional arrows individually a number of times and the blasted tanks continue to have a mind of their own. In the real mission I suppose the player can order "do as I do" and they can be made to sort of re align themselves but there should be a way around this.

Going to try out your suggestion to modify the tank cfg files to eliminate the bunching up. The files open up in that crazy code and just now I got that inupad program to work-a huge pain in the ass but...

Cheers!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 21, 2011, 09:23:00 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 21, 2011, 08:53:14 PM

Going to try out your suggestion to modify the tank cfg files to eliminate the bunching up. The files open up in that crazy code ...

Try to use a small program "Shtirlitz IV" ;)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 22, 2011, 01:02:26 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 21, 2011, 07:02:01 PM

I plugged in your script file and ran the game-played out very well. The tanks continue to park in every direction but the intended one but other than that I'm a happy camper. ;D

Okay, I have one last idea to try:

Get the tanks in line formation for the final leg:

ext, ai_form, 2;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1;
ext, ai_move, road wp01, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp02, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp03, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp04, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, road wp05, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_setstate, 0x4, 0;
ext, ai_setstate, 0x1, 0;
ext, ai_form, 1;
ext, ai_move, path wp06, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp07, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp08, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp09, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_move, path wp10, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_defence, hill, 15, 150;

I find that the AI responds better in line formation for normal movement orders, except for river crossings, where it's better to have no formation.

If this doesn't work, please send me your mission files :P

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 22, 2011, 03:12:04 AM

Kyth
Thanks for replying. Actually I thought of this already. I put them in line formation at the last waypoint and they go to their positions much easier now, however they still all turn roughly 90deg to the left of the directional arrow.

Lockie.
I changed the values you recommended to 8.0 and it worked. Much less jamming up now.

Thanks all
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 22, 2011, 04:17:22 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 22, 2011, 03:12:04 AM

Okay, this is much better :) At least they're not facing backwards,

There's something in the AI that's a little hit or miss, ???

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 24, 2011, 09:01:49 PM

Back to the problem with vehicle placement. Thinking/hoping that perhaps the problem was related to my(player)unit, I set up a single tank starting from a separate location and had it move to a single defensive position.The script was written for defense and there was no formation set. I set the directional arrow and ran the AI. Same thing happened, all my units point in a certain direction and now the single AI unit mirrors it.
I then set up an enemy force hoping this would spur the AI into positioning itself in their direction...nope.
Very odd. Will keep playing around with this.

Cheers all
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 25, 2011, 04:27:16 AM

Hemi I remeber reading something about positioning of units in the Mission Editor manula page 35.So I decided to do a little test mission called simply Hemi ;D

I created 2 German zones( the initial area and the defence position area) and one Sov one.I ascribed myself a player tank as observer and another AI tank who would fulfill the mission.I put abotu 8 Sov trucks as enemy group(just trucks so I could observe my AI tank without being shot at...).

I ascribed myAI tank a script consisting of 3 commands;1) movement to defined area, 2)defence position(don't forget to indicate defined zone and distance (I put 500 metres so the Ai does not wait too long to shoot at incoming enemy) and 3) sector.Apparently this command is supposed to ensure that your unit faces the right direction as it includes the rotate command. Itested and it worked.May have been fluke but why don't you try a dummy script like thta with more thna one unit and put some token enemy(give the enemy a dual command movement to the enemy defensive position and then the Mode of kovement command with the attack parameter.Try and see if it resolves your issue.As well you cna zoom in on the map and see your units while in the mission creation mode.There's a command thta allows you to launch the mission you just created and observe how the units move.It's useful to try.

Cheers!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 25, 2011, 08:26:07 AM

Quote from: frinik on May 25, 2011, 04:27:16 AM

... 3) sector.Apparently this command is supposed to ensure that your unit faces the right direction as it includes the rotate command. Itested and it worked.

it's interesting. As far as I know, command "sector" doesn't work, at least as my point. I'd be pleased to see er part of code vs mentioned command.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 25, 2011, 12:42:46 PM

Thanks Lockie
I know it's something I'm not doing right or don't understand. I'll try to duplicate what you just did and report back. Could you maybe post your script file of this test?

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 25, 2011, 01:07:28 PM

Lockie,Hemi let me further testing with more units and with opposing units coming from a different direction to see if it works like the first time(i.e friednly units face proper direction.Then I'll post the script.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 25, 2011, 07:20:33 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 25, 2011, 12:42:46 PM

Could you maybe post your script file of this test?

but I don't know how command "sector" works either :)
Perhaps, it's smth vs "sector fire".

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 25, 2011, 08:59:20 PM

Quote from: lockie on May 25, 2011, 07:20:33 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 25, 2011, 12:42:46 PM

Could you maybe post your script file of this test?

but I don't know how command "sector" works either :)
Perhaps, it's smth vs "sector fire".

Perhaps the all knowing, magical, mystical Kyth might know ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 26, 2011, 06:39:52 AM

Here's what it says at page 35 of the Editor manula:

6) "Sector" - division is turning in a necessary direction. Rotation angle
required.

In other words, it allows you to point to the direction you want your AI unit to face. I tried yeterday with AT guns and Flakc36 as they are very prone to facing the wrong direction in a mission.I first used the mode of movement script to give max fire ranger i.e. 500 metres,Then set the move back to sector and it worked.I observed from 700 metres aways safely tucked in a Panther(without intervening strictly neutral observer.I had a Swiss White Cross painted on my tank!) and I observed the action I had put 2 groups of Soviet tanks and infantry attacking from 2 different directions a total of 9 PaKs and 3 Flak36.They runed in the right directiosn and took out all 14 Sov tanks(T26, BT5s, Mark II, Mathildas and T34s) from 1100 metres to almost point blank.Only 2 Paks and 1 Flak were left intact. So I guess now I'll have to test with combo of infantry, tanks/SPGs and AT guns to see if it works as well with a combo of many units spread over several positions.Tha...thaaa, that's it for now Folks!Stay tuned!

That being said I agree wholeheartedly; Meister Kyth will likely bring the whole matter to a shining clarity! :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 26, 2011, 08:15:53 AM

Quote from: frinik on May 26, 2011, 06:39:52 AM

6) "Sector" - division is turning in a necessary direction. Rotation angle
required.

In other words, it allows you to point to the direction you want your AI unit to face. I tried yeterday with AT guns and Flakc36 as they are very prone to facing the wrong direction in a mission.I first used the mode of movement script to give max fire ranger i.e. 500 metres,Then set the move back to sector and it worked.

Sounds good! Waiting to see er training mission how command "sector" works. At my part it doesn't metter, which rotation angle I gave to the "sector", tanks always turned into one position and angle always the same.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 26, 2011, 11:50:32 AM

Sorry ti was not the movement script it was the defence script of course otherwise my guys would be pushing their guns! ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 26, 2011, 11:53:00 AM

Guys question off topic.Are the national identification signs: black cross and red star located in the texture folders??? If not where and what are they called?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: norm on May 26, 2011, 01:16:56 PM

I'm pretty sure there in a folder called "marks" in the textures folder, I will check when I a home.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 26, 2011, 04:39:16 PM

Frinik
I created a test mirroring yours. My tank as observer, a single tank as the test unit and 8 rus trucks approaching. I included a wait time for the trucks so my units have plenty of time to set up. Here's the script file.

ext, ai_move, defense zone, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_defence, , 15, 500;
ext, ai_rotate, 0;

I'm having dificulty understanding how to use "sector" option. I've read and reread the manual and I see no instructions on how to implement it. I tried to highlight it and rotate the map in the desired direction then hit the yellow box/arrow to set it. That doesn't work. Do I need to manually adjust the "rotate, 0;" setting the 0 to a compass degree, that would make sense to set it to a certain heading of the compass (90 deg =east, 180deg =south etc etc)

Right now my units head for the waypoint/contour they drive over it, stop for a bit then move away and park, always in the same direction but never in the desired direction.

What am I doing wrong here?

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 26, 2011, 05:43:24 PM

It's one of the options just above Mode of Movement if my memory serves me right?I don't have my game on the laptop I am using to write this post.You click on defence , then then click on add another script click on sector then rotate the ai.The thing missing in your line 2 is sector instead of defense

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: norm on May 26, 2011, 07:01:30 PM

How are scripts made? I have some mission ideas, and I would like to know if their is any sort of "fire when I fire" script it would be good to have doing ambushes.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on May 26, 2011, 10:06:29 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 26, 2011, 04:39:16 PM

ext, ai_rotate, 0;

ai_rotate +/-180

ext, ai_rotate, 0; (North)
ext, ai_rotate, 90; (West)
ext, ai_rotate, -45; (NorthEast)
ext, ai_rotate, -90; (East)
ext, ai_rotate, 180; (South)

(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/739/angle.th.jpg) (http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/739/angle.jpg)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 26, 2011, 10:39:28 PM

Iceman
Thanks, that's what I kind of thought. Right now in my tests I have the sector set to let's say 90(west)
My AI test unit goes to that waypoint/contour perfectly and rotates to the exact position I desire (west), pauses then moves off some distance and parks in the direction he wants.

I then set the sector to -90(east) the AI unit goes right to the same waypoint/contour, rotates to the new direction (east), pauses then moves off to wherever he desires and rotates to the same heading as before but definately not the one I want.

Here's the two scripts from the same unit trying it two different ways.

ext, ai_move, defense zone02, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_rotate, -92;
   ext, ai_defence, , 15, 500;
___________________________________________________

ext, ai_move, defense zone02, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_defence, , 15, 500;
   ext, ai_rotate, 92;
}

As you can see the rotate angles are opposite, I have tried this with the "sector" line in the 2nd position as well as the 3rd position with the same results. If I could keep the unit from wandering off after the initial pause I'd be good. Also, I am notmessing with the directional arrows at this time.

A thought: Does the game AI take into account the terrain and decide it doesn't like the placement I chose for a good defense? Does it go looking for a better location to defend? In this case the terrain is rough and hilly with a few trees.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 26, 2011, 10:43:18 PM

Quote from: norm on May 26, 2011, 07:01:30 PM

How are scripts made? I have some mission ideas, and I would like to know if their is any sort of "fire when I fire" script it would be good to have doing ambushes.

I'm a complete noob at this but this is a perfect starting point.
http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=7343.0

Then, read everything you can regarding the ME by Kyth, Frinik and Lockie for starters.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 26, 2011, 11:04:22 PM

Quote from: Iceman on May 26, 2011, 10:06:29 PM

ai_rotate +/-180

Iceman, thanks for er replay, but I'm still, don't get anything.
Would u be so kind to create a training mission, which'll be devoted to command "sector"(how it does) and upload it kinda tutorial?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on May 26, 2011, 11:06:22 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 26, 2011, 10:39:28 PM

A thought: Does the game AI take into account the terrain and decide it doesn't like the placement I chose for a good defense?

yes

-------

Quote

defense zone02

change to defense_zone02
Scripts do not like spaces in the names of contours

---------

Quote

ext, ai_defence, , 15, 500;

You must specify the name of the position for the defense

for example

Quote

ext, ai_defence, village , 15, 500;

And you must have "village" positions in cs_positions()

for example

Quote

cs_positions()
{

   ext, add_trench, 0, ger_infb_01, -1, 0, village;
   ext, add_trench, 0, ger_infb_02, -1, 0, village;
   ext, add_trench, 0, ger_infb_03, -1, 0, village;
   ext, add_trench, 0, ger_infb_04, -1, 0, village;
   ext, add_trench, 0, ger_infb_05, -1, 0, village;
   ext, add_trench, 1, ger_tanks_01, -1, 1, village;
   ext, add_trench, 1, ger_tanks_02, -1, 1, village;
}

ger_infb_* - contours on map for (for example) infantry positions
ger_tanks_* - contours on map for (for example) tanks positions

Otherwise your divisions will go in search of a place for defense

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on May 26, 2011, 11:16:48 PM

Quote from: lockie on May 26, 2011, 11:04:22 PM

Would u be so kind to create a training mission, which'll be devoted to command "sector"(how it does) and upload it kinda tutorial?

there is no command "sector"
for ambushes use the command ai_ambush

Quote

ext, ai_ambush, 350;

350 - Fire distance in meters

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 27, 2011, 12:10:59 AM

Quote from: Iceman on May 26, 2011, 11:16:48 PM

there is no command "sector"

(http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/6/9/thumb/thumb_a86bfeef.jpg) (http://xmages.net/view.php/85187_sector-jpg.html)

!?
How it could be?
There're commands to units:
1. unknown
2. movement
3. in cars
4. off cars
5. defense
6. ambush
7. sector
8. formation
9. movement mode
10. wait trigger
11. repeat
12. wait time
-----
OK, let it be "operation type", but operation type "sector" doesn't work at all, or I've misunderstanding. Plz, clear picking up one. Training mission vs appropriate script would be fine.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 27, 2011, 03:56:28 AM

What I gathered of my expereinces with the Sector option is that it tells the AI to basically stick to that particular area where you are assigning them.If you give the AI a defence script and add sector then they stick to that area they have to defend.But if you add ambush it's trickier because they AI can't reesist the urge to rush forward and face the attacking force and often get killed stupidly because they don't have the human instinct of look at the odds they are facing!

What Iceman said about assigning area rather than layer is very much on the spot.I never use layers when making amission but rather a closed area big enough to ensure the AIO does not crawl all over themselves...

I find Iceman's explanations very clear about assigning rotation angles§ I will try it!

Thanks Iceman!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on May 27, 2011, 07:32:01 AM

Quote from: lockie on May 27, 2011, 12:10:59 AM

How it could be?
There're commands to units:
1. unknown
2. movement
3. in cars
4. off cars
5. defense
6. ambush
7. sector
8. formation
9. movement mode
10. wait trigger
11. repeat
12. wait time
-----
OK, let it be "operation type", but operation type "sector" doesn't work at all, or I've misunderstanding. Plz, clear picking up one. Training mission vs appropriate script would be fine.

Text "sector" in the editor - it's "ai_rorate" in the script

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 27, 2011, 10:57:05 AM

Iceman is there a command in the Mission Editor that can help the AI not fall into rivers or lakes????

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 27, 2011, 01:49:03 PM

Frinik
Since you've had some success with sector could you post your mission file. I'd like to copy it and see what yours looks like compared to mine. I've changed a few things as Iceman suggests and still not having too much luck. I think I'm getting close to what I want but.....

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 27, 2011, 02:19:55 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 27, 2011, 01:49:03 PM

Frinik
Since you've had some success with sector could you post your mission file. I'd like to copy it and see what yours looks like compared to mine.

Me also :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 27, 2011, 04:04:15 PM

Tommorow guys as I am still testing some things in a mission I modified usiong Iceman's indications!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 28, 2011, 04:39:39 AM

OK what I am doing with the sector option is not terribly mysterious.What I have done is placed some AT, Flack and Marders on amap with an incoming heavy Soviet attack( it's one of my combat mission in which you are the Sov player).I put a defence script for the respective zones where the units are.Then I simply enter a sector and using the slider hailstones underneath (that what it's called in my ME)I am ascribing a rotation angle in degrees(the slider is set at 0 by default, to go all the way to + 180 moving it to the right and to minus 180 moving it all the way to the left) until I find the right bearing.The problem is that there's no compass on the maps in the ME so you have to figure out where the North,East,West and South are in orert o give your units proper direction.I naively through that perhaps the maps were automaically defaulted to the top of the map being the North, the bottom the South, left the East and right the West.But my assumptions were not correct.You have to find where the North is on a particular map before you can ascribe the desired rotation angle to your units so they face the incoming opponent.It works but you really have to experiment .It would have bene helpful to have a compass included with each map in the ME or at least some arrows indicating North and South.There's got to be way of finding out the proper direction.May be in the layers which are used by the units you place on a map can you find the location???

I'll let you know.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on May 28, 2011, 06:48:01 AM

Quote from: frinik on May 27, 2011, 10:57:05 AM

Iceman is there a command in the Mission Editor that can help the AI not fall into rivers or lakes????

In the editor of missions of such commands isn't present. :( AI itself should define impassable zones for tanks.
For example, if depth of water is more than 0,5 meters, or at considerable differences of heights in a square 2x2 meter (defines only from a texture of heights during generation of polygon).

P.S. It is possible to put forbidding zones only in the editor of polygons(maps) when you create the polygon(map).

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on May 28, 2011, 07:17:50 AM

Quote from: frinik on May 28, 2011, 04:39:39 AM

All maps are focused to the north (but the editor remembers last position of the camera before exit).
For instant turn of a map to the north use keys Numpad5(twice) and CTRL+Numpad5

To take a correct angle use this button
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6850/anglej.th.jpg) (http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6850/anglej.jpg)

P.S. For easy navigation of the camera in the editor you can hold down Right Mouse Button for moving and Middle Mouse Button to rotate.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 28, 2011, 07:39:53 AM

Thanks for the useful tip Iceman! :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 28, 2011, 03:20:15 PM

Iceman, thanks for the valuable tips for pointing the map north. Also, the part about positions and layers. It all helps a lot.

I'm wondering if there is a quick way to zoom in when using the ME. Getting a sore finger scrolling my mouse wheel down,down,down to zero in on a desired area. I know that I can center on a zone by using the binocular icon in the toolbar but that still leaves you way out in the disatance.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 28, 2011, 03:55:53 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 28, 2011, 03:20:15 PM

I'm wondering if there is a quick way to zoom in when using the ME. Getting a sore finger scrolling my mouse wheel down,down,down to zero in on a desired area. I know that I can center on a zone by using the binocular icon in the toolbar but that still leaves you way out in the disatance.

The 'Right-Ctrl 5' key command will toggle down to ground level.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on May 28, 2011, 06:20:22 PM

Quote from: Kyth on May 28, 2011, 03:55:53 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 28, 2011, 03:20:15 PM

The 'Right-Ctrl 5' key command will toggle down to ground level.

and CRTL+F for jump to selected contour

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 29, 2011, 04:51:04 AM

Iceman,

Now I have a question about the Mission Editor too. :)

What do the script commands "load_gv" and "save_gv" do, and how do I use them in a script?
The editor manual isn't very clear about how to define a 'global variable' - is it a Null trigger, or is it defined elsewhere?
Or maybe, like the "ai_rotate", it doesn't really function?

(Okay, my 3 questions = 1 question ;D)

Quote

A thought: Does the game AI take into account the terrain and decide it doesn't like the placement I chose for a good defense?

yes

-------

I've looked over the missions that used 'ai_defense' and it looks like the AI definitely kicks in:

Units prefer to go into 'hull-down' position; which may not be hull-down relative to the enemy :-\
Units appear to prefer the rear-slope vs forward-slope as a defense position; again, not always the correct choice vs the enemy.
Units appear to go looking for some combination of the above, and charge ahead if no suitable position's found

'Hull-down' positions are obscured by terrain, 250m - 500m out.
That might explain why they point the wrong way, sometimes :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 29, 2011, 08:07:14 AM

iceman i have a question of my own.The sector script in which you give the rotation axis to the unit of your choice(from - 180 to + 180) should it be enabled first in your line of script?I have tried to impart a direction to my units using the rorate AI function and itr works Ok with infantry and guns bu the tanks and APCs keep looking towards the North no matter what I tell them to do through the sector script( i ahev tried 45, 90, 180, 135, -45 dgrees and no go they just are facing the north at the onset of a mission?Could this be a bug in the coding? Or something I am nto doing right?
Please advise.

Thanks

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 29, 2011, 08:19:48 AM

Quote from: frinik on May 29, 2011, 08:07:14 AM

Exactly the results I got, they're all like little compasses, always pointing north :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 29, 2011, 11:08:18 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 25, 2011, 08:59:20 PM

Quote from: lockie on May 25, 2011, 07:20:33 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 25, 2011, 12:42:46 PM

Could you maybe post your script file of this test?

but I don't know how command "sector" works either :)
Perhaps, it's smth vs "sector fire".

Perhaps the all knowing, magical, mystical Kyth might know ;D

Half-knowing Kyth would venture a guess that the sector / rotate command doesn't work for AFV's.

He would recommend looking at the 'lay of the land' to see whether defense zones are satisfactory to the AI.

Kyth would also recommend experimenting to see which is which.

In his great mercy, he will now stop referring to himself in the third-person. ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 29, 2011, 03:17:50 PM

Quote from: frinik on May 29, 2011, 08:07:14 AM

I've pretty much mirrored the above with tank units and no luck whatever. Haven't tried any other units yet. Playing with the directional arrows has no effect. And after actually inspecting the lay of the land I agree that my units do seem to search for the best terrain, still always pointing north wherever they choose to park.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on May 29, 2011, 05:29:16 PM

Quote from: Kyth on May 29, 2011, 04:51:04 AM

Iceman,

Now I have a question about the Mission Editor too. :)

What do the script commands "load_gv" and "save_gv" do, and how do I use them in a script?

I don't know :). I never used this command, and I think that our programmers will also don't remember any more :D

Quote from: Kyth on May 29, 2011, 04:51:04 AM

I've looked over the missions that used 'ai_defense' and it looks like the AI definitely kicks in:

Units prefer to go into 'hull-down' position; which may not be hull-down relative to the enemy :-\
Units appear to prefer the rear-slope vs forward-slope as a defense position; again, not always the correct choice vs the enemy.
Units appear to go looking for some combination of the above, and charge ahead if no suitable position's found

'Hull-down' positions are obscured by terrain, 250m - 500m out.
That might explain why they point the wrong way, sometimes :)

If in command ai_defence aren't specified exact contours (position), then divisions will search for special tactical places for defense within the zone set by you (250-500 m).
For example, for most of the trenches for the tanks and infantry in the polygons(maps) was added special tactical features. If divisions don't find in a zone for defense of such places they will search for something approaching, and will probably find not so good place.
AI here isn't ideal. :)

Quote from: frinik on May 29, 2011, 08:07:14 AM

You can use not only command ai_rotate. You can set a direction for the technician and infantry by contours.
Press the button #1 (from picture) and you will appoint all to contour points an identical direction by default.
(http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/696/angle2.th.jpg) (http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/696/angle2.jpg)

Here you can see that the tanks before the start of the mission are turned in the necessary direction (not North). Also, when divisions become in contours for defense, they will be guided how contour points are turned.
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9035/angletank.th.jpg) (http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9035/angletank.jpg)

-----
P.S. Also forgive me my bad English :)
P.P.S. to frinik. Please, put space characters between a dots and the first letters of the following offer. As I spoke - my English is poor, and my stupid auto-translator can't decipher it. :)
P.P.P.S. I joke. :) I put space characters in the auto-translator manually ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 29, 2011, 06:22:37 PM

Thank you very much Iceman and don't worry your English is quite fine!

Thanks for coming to this forum as your presence is very much appreciated with all the unaswered questions we all have!

Everything you say help us enjoy this great game that Graviteam made :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on May 29, 2011, 06:37:17 PM

Here is a simple script (http://www.4shared.com/file/gnI91Kwe/09_b_polyana.html) to check out how command "ai_rotate" works. And u may see that this command doesn't work at all. The infantry(almost all soldiers) is always looks to the north and tank to the west. It doesn't matter what degrees to rotate u'll apply or which direction the contours are oriented.

(http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/5/a/thumb/thumb_d15879db.jpg) (http://xmages.net/view.php/85313_sector-jpg.html)

Code:

//script
sc_sov_move_01()
{

	ext, ai_form, 2;
	ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x2;
	ext, ai_move, sov_tac_01, false, -1, 15;
	ext, ai_exit, false;
	ext, ai_form, 0;
	ext, ai_defence, sov_def_01, 10, 500;
	ext, ai_rotate, 180;
	wait_time, 1;
	ext, ai_rotate, 180;
	wait_time, 1;
	ext, ai_rotate, -90;
	wait_time, 1;
	ext, ai_rotate, 90;
	wait_time, 1;
	ext, ai_rotate, -45;
}

//positions
cs_positions()
{
	ext, add_trench, 0, sov_inf_def_02, -1, 0, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 0, sov_inf_def_01, -1, 0, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 0, sov_inf_def_03, -1, 0, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 1, sov_pos_teh_01, 1, 1, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 1, sov_pos_teh_02, 1, 1, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 1, sov_pos_teh_03, 1, 1, sov_def_01;
}

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 30, 2011, 07:46:57 PM

I'm finding that when in the ME and I pull up the scripts file to edit it I notice that whatever changes I make manually are never saved. I can Save/Reload as often as I can and still nothing saves. If I go into the actual directory and modify the scripts file it saves in the directory but not in the ME's version of it. Only if I save the directory file then start the game itself, then exit will I find my changes are now in the ME's version. What am I doing wrong here?

Also, starting to get into editing, placing map symbols and texts...boy that's another can of worms, Sheesh!

Cheers all
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on May 31, 2011, 01:35:57 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 30, 2011, 07:46:57 PM

I'm finding that when in the ME and I pull up the scripts file to edit it I notice that whatever changes I make manually are never saved. I can Save/Reload as often as I can and still nothing saves.

The script file can be saved separately. I assume you use Notepad, so just save the file using Notepad first, before closing it. Back in the Mission Editor, don't save again, just reload the mission for the script-file changes to take effect.

Quote from: hemisent on May 30, 2011, 07:46:57 PM

Also, starting to get into editing, placing map symbols and texts...boy that's another can of worms, Sheesh!

Now, that's the most fun part (after AI testing) ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on May 31, 2011, 09:37:37 AM

Quote from: lockie on May 29, 2011, 06:37:17 PM

maybe really bug in command ai_rotate

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 31, 2011, 02:38:38 PM

Quote from: hemisent on May 30, 2011, 07:46:57 PM

Also, starting to get into editing, placing map symbols and texts...boy that's another can of worms, Sheesh!

Now, that's the most fun part (after AI testing) ;D

And guess who I think has most of the answers........ ;D ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on May 31, 2011, 03:09:11 PM

MMMMMM a wild guess somebody whose first name happens to start with the letter that come before L but definitely after J???? ::)

I am afraid Iceman that indeed there's a bug with the ai rotate sector command.It only works sometimes but based on our collective, empirical experience yes....

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on May 31, 2011, 09:47:23 PM

Ok, here's my first question on adding symbols to the map in the ME. After having gone over the manual along with every thread relating to the ME & texts or symbols on this forum here's where I'm at(hopelessly lost as usual).

I've used the short tutorial by Rends as my starting point to add road signs and it worked perfectly.

here's the mission scripts file:
cs_map()
{
ext, add_mo, map0, arrow0, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_orel1_vesniny, 0, map_road_vesniny, -1, true, 0; road sign to vesniny works perfectly

ext, add_mo, map0, arrow0, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_attack_rub, 0, attack_rub, -1, true, 0; does not work?
}

And the mission .text file:
loc_rus()

{
txt_md_orel1_vesniny () { To Vesniny; } this works
txt_md_attack_rub() this does not work?
}

Using the symbols in the manual pg57 I chose the "attack_rub" symbol to start. I've used Rend's example to begin but it will not show up on the map in the game.

I've been looking at Kyth's single missions to figure out my error but can't come up with what I'm doing wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 01, 2011, 03:22:53 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 31, 2011, 09:47:23 PM

cs_map()
{
ext, add_mo, map0, arrow0, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_orel1_vesniny, 0, map_road_vesniny, -1, true, 0; road sign to vesniny works perfectly

ext, add_mo, map0, arrow0, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_attack_rub, 0, attack_rub, -1, true, 0; does not work?
}

And the mission .text file:
loc_rus()

{
txt_md_orel1_vesniny () { To Vesniny; } this works
txt_md_attack_rub() this does not work?
}

I assume you want to place an "attack_rub" symbol on the map?
Some pointers:

ext, add_mo, map0, arrow0, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_attack_rub, 0, attack_rub, -1, true, 0;

- better to name the map position and text as something other than "attack_rub", which is the actual identifier for the map symbol. A better choice would be "start" or "start_position"
- the "attack_rub" symbol identifier should be specified here instead of "arrow", which is the road-sign symbol.

txt_md_attack_rub()

- This is optional; you can specify the text to be displayed with the map symbol, for example:

{Armour deployment zone 1;}

In summary, here are the suggested changes:

ext, add_mo, map0, attack_rub, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;

txt_md_ger_startzone1() { Armour deployment zone 1;}

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: whukid on June 01, 2011, 04:05:53 AM

I pose a simple question to all of you;

What if I was colorblind? ;)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 01, 2011, 04:11:27 AM

That would depend whether it's red-green or yellow-blue! In rare cases, everything's in shades of grey, :P

How do you do your texture mods, then?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: whukid on June 01, 2011, 05:21:32 AM

Quote from: Kyth on June 01, 2011, 04:11:27 AM

That would depend whether it's red-green or yellow-blue! In rare cases, everything's in shades of grey, :P

How do you do your texture mods, then?

I was kidding :P speaking of which though, they are coming along nicely. I'm still grinding through the scripts for the Finnish mod and plan to release them both at around the same time..

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 01, 2011, 06:23:23 AM

Okay, another point to note about the "attack_rub" symbol:

ext, add_mo, map0, attack_rub, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;

- '1.5' refers to the size of the symbol. Normal size for the attack_rub ranges from 3 to 5;
- The 2 numbers refer to the colour of the symbol and colour of text.
The colours are specified in hex values ranging from '00' to 'ff' , i.e. 0x, alpha value, red, green, blue.
Typical examples:
0xc0000080 = dark blue
0xc0802020 = reddish brown
0xffc000000 = bright red
In the line above, the symbol colour is dark green, while the accompanying text is dark grey.

Suggested changes to the line are:

ext, add_mo, map0, attack_rub, 0xc0000080, 0x80202020, 3.0, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 01, 2011, 06:25:37 AM

Your reading assignment today is Chapter 9 in the Editor Manual!
Pay special attention to the sections dealing with cs_main() and cs_map(), and Table 9.2, which lists down the available map symbols and their names.
Make sure you understand these sections thoroughly.

There will be a quiz!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on June 01, 2011, 06:42:43 AM

Quote from: hemisent on May 31, 2011, 09:47:23 PM

cs_map()
{

ext, add_mo, map0, arrow0, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_attack_rub, 0, attack_rub, -1, true, 0; does not work?
}

you must have contour attack_rub.
For attack arrow you also can use special symbol attack_dir

Quote

ext, add_mo, map0, attack_dir, 0xc0800000, , 4, , 0, some_contour, -1, true, 0;

0xc0800000 - red color
0xc0000080 - blue color

Quote from: hemisent on May 31, 2011, 09:47:23 PM

And the mission .text file:

Quote

loc_rus()

{
txt_md_orel1_vesniny () { To Vesniny; } this works
txt_md_attack_rub() this does not work?
}

txt_md_attack_rub { must be some text; }

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 01, 2011, 05:50:08 PM

There will still be a quiz! No doubt about it.

Heh-heh
;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on June 01, 2011, 06:43:16 PM

Additional. Once I did decoding of blocks for mission of Russian video-lessons (http://1ceman.110mb.com/sfkh1942/lesson_data.zip). And also has added the new block cs_radio().
Unfortunately is only in Russian.
Russian text (http://1ceman.110mb.com/sfkh1942/new_mission_01_scripts.txt)
Google translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://1ceman.110mb.com/sfkh1942/new_mission_01_scripts.txt&hl=en&langpair=ru|en&tbb=1&ie=windows-1251)

I think it will help to understand logic of blocks cs_main() and cs_map()

P.S. You can have not one block cs_radio(), and to have on each trigger the block cs_radio().
I.e. cs_radio1(), cs_radio2(), cs_radio3(), etc
And all of them will be run in parallel.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 01, 2011, 08:26:21 PM

Thank you all for your help. All I can say is.... AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on June 01, 2011, 08:38:44 PM

Quote from: hemisent on June 01, 2011, 08:26:21 PM

All I can say is.... AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's OK :D Just pay attention that radio message is only a feature to add more atmospheric to the game ;)
(So, be on guard to have ability to add a voice ;)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 02, 2011, 02:53:24 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 01, 2011, 08:26:21 PM

Thank you all for your help. All I can say is.... AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take it one step at a time... Do the map-symbol thingies first...

Then you get to take a quiz!

Heh-heh
;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 02, 2011, 03:16:10 PM

Definitely more atmospheric than having a green arrow point at the next objective or rendez-vous location.

You know Hemi one experiemnt you could do in the ME to see if the sector ai_rotate fetaure works insome condition would be to set a movement script to your units to a designated area.Once there assign a sector script with the direction you want them to face.Then add a defence or ambush script.Once the Ai has moved they tend to be more responsive.Might try that and see if it gives good results?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 03, 2011, 02:40:23 AM

Hey Frinik
Actually I tried that before I gave up. Thought I'd tackle something a bit different like texts and stuff....my GOD what was I thinking. Where's that purple microdot when you need it? LOL!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 03, 2011, 02:58:31 AM

Like I said, one step at a time...

Just pace it out,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 04, 2011, 07:59:57 PM

Hi Guys, after a week of being sick as a dog I'm back and getting into the text stage, taking Kyth's suggestions I'm taking one thing at a time.

Quote from: Kyth on June 01, 2011, 03:22:53 AM

I assume you want to place an "attack_rub" symbol on the map?

Kyth, yes, looking for simple directional arrow/pointer to begin with.

Quote

Some pointers:

ext, add_mo, map0, arrow0, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_attack_rub, 0, attack_rub, -1, true, 0;

- better to name the map position and text as something other than "attack_rub", which is the actual identifier for the map symbol. A better choice would be "start" or "start_position"
- the "attack_rub" symbol identifier should be specified here instead of "arrow", which is the road-sign symbol.

txt_md_attack_rub()

- This is optional; you can specify the text to be displayed with the map symbol, for example:

{Armour deployment zone 1;}

Ok, I've edited my two files to look like your suggestions, also changed the outlines/map contour to read startzone1 still nothing is showing up.

loc_rus()

{
txt_md_orel1_vesniny () { To Vesniny; }
txt_md_ger_startzone1() { Armour deployment zone 1;}
}
{

ext, add_mo, map0, arrow0, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, txt_md_orel1_vesniny, 0, map_road_vesniny, -1, true, 0;
ext, add_mo, map0, attack_rub, 0x80006000, 0x80202020, 1.5, 0, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;
}

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 04, 2011, 11:04:36 PM

Quote from: hemisent on June 04, 2011, 07:59:57 PM

Hi Guys, after a week of being sick as a dog I'm back and getting into the text stage, taking Kyth's suggestions I'm taking one thing at a time.

Okay, I was starting to think you'd given up!

A couple of suggestions:

- Did you place a contour on the map named 'startzone1' ?
- Increase the size of the map symbol, and its change its colour:

ext, add_mo, map0, attack_rub, 0xc0000080, 0x80202020, 4.0, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 04, 2011, 11:57:22 PM

Kyth
Thanks for getting back to this. Nope, not giving up just a bad case of the flu. My line is now edited to this-all is the same as yours with the exception of 0, and it's still a no-show.

ext, add_mo, map0, attack_rub, 0xc0000080, 0x80202020, 4.0, 0, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;

I'm deleting the "0" to see what happens, and.......nothing. makes no difference. the symbol does not show up.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 05, 2011, 01:45:15 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 04, 2011, 11:57:22 PM

Make sure there's an actual contour in the Mission Editor map that's named "startzone1". Not "Startzone1" or "startzone01" etc.
The name in the script must match up.

ext, add_mo, map0, attack_rub, 0xc0000080, 0x80202020, 4.0, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;

should get a rather large symbol plonked down on the briefing screen:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PjvnAv9359w/Terd5lO31AI/AAAAAAAAAWg/4hPpfBQ_EOM/s640/attackrub.jpg)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 05, 2011, 06:57:22 PM

Kyth & Iceman
Success at last. Got the blue symbol but the text was gray question marks. I played around with the text line and finally found my error. ;D

Thanks-off to make copies of these working lines and sort of make a tutorial to myself-more questions to follow I'm sure.

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 06, 2011, 02:08:58 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 05, 2011, 06:57:22 PM

Okay, good :) Add this to your tutorial:

In adding any map object, (the ext, add_mo command) the following describes the relevant settings in each line:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
ext, add_mo, map0, attack_rub, 0xc0000080, 0x80202020, 4.0, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;

1. Name of the object, or group of objects. Useful for changing colours, or removing later on.

2. Symbol or sprite name. Refer to table 9.2 for a listing.

3. Symbol colour (0x, alpha, red, green, blue)

4. Text colour (0x, alpha, red, green, blue), if any.

5. Size of the object. At any one size, some symbols are already larger than others, so play around to see what's suitable.

6. Text string for (4), if any.

7. Skew / tilt angle of the symbol in degrees. Ranges from -180 to 180. '0' = symbol follows the map contour heading.

8. Map contour for the placement of the symbol.

9. Contour point number. Default '-1' (not specific). Anyway, try to use one-point contours for placement of symbols.

10. Rotate along with the map, true / false. Flag symbols should always be upright, hence, 'false'. (Flag placement contours should point due north).

11. Offset value for text, left-right. Default value '0' (centered).

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 06, 2011, 02:27:38 AM

Hem Hemi we are all impatiently waiting for your first mission.... ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on June 06, 2011, 09:52:13 AM

added to FAQ (http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2.msg15622#msg15622) :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 06, 2011, 11:18:08 AM

Quote from: Iceman on June 06, 2011, 09:52:13 AM

added to FAQ (http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2.msg15622#msg15622) :)

Thanks, :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 06, 2011, 02:47:25 PM

Hemi-ssion! We want our first Hemi-ssion ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 06, 2011, 08:35:03 PM

Kyth
That was exactly what I needed. Up to now I've been filling in the the different items with what I have gathered from the various threads and replies but a lot was left open. This helped out a bunch.

I haven't even gotten to the radio messages and triggers yet but what I would like is a short, step by step guide to the initial mission briefing. I know it seems like I don't read the manual that much but I do and I really have a hard time deciphering it the way it presented. I've read all the threads I can find about the briefing but cannot get it to show up. I'm sure it's some small error but so far unable to pin it down

Frinik
I have something in mind but still need to firm up my understanding of many of these fine points. I believe the briefing, map info and radio traffic are just as important to a good mission experience as the actual mission itself. That's why I find Kyth's missions so amazing and now I have a bit of understanding of all that goes into it.

Again, thanks to all for the help.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 07, 2011, 01:32:31 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 06, 2011, 08:35:03 PM

what I would like is a short, step by step guide to the initial mission briefing.

Hi,

Actually adding the lines for the initial briefing is one of the easier things. ;D

Take the example below:

ext, add_misobj, brief, map_ritmental, 4, txt_brief_testmission_1, txt_mis_order;
nop;

The 1st line consists of:

- The command ext, add_misobj (add mission objective)
- Name of the objective, in this case just 'brief'
- Contour on the map. Supposedly the location of the ultimate objective. But you can leave it blank also,
- Status of the objective ( 4 - information only )
- Text string for the briefing, goes into the main box in the briefing screen.
- Text string for a description, goes into the side-box in the briefing screen. In this case, use the txt_mis_order string - "Mission"

The 2nd line, which is 'nop;' (no operation) indicates that the game should pause here and wait for the player to start.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 07, 2011, 01:55:09 AM

Talking about the briefing, it's best to format it in a readable and presentable way.

Take the 'inspiring' briefing example below: :)

Quote

   Well, now it's official:

   We're surrounded!

   The breakout is planned for tonight - you and your tank platoon will take the lead, along with whatever infantry support we can collar. You will be heading in the direction of Ritmental, where we think they won't be expecting us. Watch out for ambushes!

   And one more thing, don't screw up, or it'll surely be the last time ever for you!

Formatting tags for the in-game text strings are:

\t - tab or indent
\n - move to next line

The example above would look like this in the 'xxx_loc_data.text' file:

Quote

txt_brief_testmission_1() { \n\t\tWell, now it's official: \n\n\t\tWe're surrounded!\n\n\t\tThe breakout is planned for tonight - you and your tank platoon will take the lead, along with whatever infantry support we can collar. You will be heading in the direction of Ritmental, where we think they won't be expecting us. Watch out for ambushes!\n\n\t\tAnd one more thing, don't screw up, or it'll surely be the last time ever for you!; }

The end-result should look like the screen below:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wqv55bZvurQ/Te2DxWKQ_5I/AAAAAAAAAWs/jT_ZnDV2CmE/s800/briefing.jpg)

Good luck, but you won't need it, if you follow my instructions exactly!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 07, 2011, 09:42:17 PM

Thanks kyth
This is what I was looking for. Except.......you mention the loc_data.text file. I've seen this file name in other threads and for the life of me I cannot find it. The closest thing I come up with is in the
data/k42/loc_rus/text folder, which contains three filer with the loc_ prefix:

loc_kit.text
loc_kit_subs.text
loc_kit_tools.text

Can you direct me or is this yet another folder my DL'd version is missing?

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on June 07, 2011, 10:08:19 PM

hemi
check your data/k42/loc_rus/levels/LEVELS/SCRIPTS/"campaign name" directory for the text files

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 07, 2011, 10:33:24 PM

Thanks Rends
I knew it had to be something dumb. I was looking in the wrong area.

I plugged in Kyth's example in my test mission file and I still get nothing on the initial briefing screen.

//Graviteam mission create system ver. 0.1

loc_rus()
{
//äîáàâü òåêñò ñþäà
//â ôîðìàòå txt_ldm_<èìÿ òàáëèöû íà àíãëèéñêîì>() { <òåêñò1> ; <òåêñò2>; ... <òåêñò n>; }
//ïðèìåð: txt_ldm_text1() { Òåêñòîâàÿ ñòðîêà ¹1; }

}
loc_eng()
{txt_brief_single tiger-02() { \n\t\tWell, now it's official: \n\n\t\tWe're surrounded!\n\n\t\tThe breakout is planned for tonight - you and your tank platoon will take the lead, along with whatever infantry support we can collar. You will be heading in the direction of Ritmental, where we think they won't be expecting us. Watch out for ambushes!\n\n\t\tAnd one more thing, don't screw up, or it'll surely be the last time ever for you!; }
}

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 07, 2011, 11:13:16 PM

Quote from: hemisent on June 07, 2011, 10:33:24 PM

I plugged in Kyth's example in my test mission file and I still get nothing on the initial briefing screen.

//Graviteam mission create system ver. 0.1

loc_rus()
{
//äîáàâü òåêñò ñþäà
//â ôîðìàòå txt_ldm_<èìÿ òàáëèöû íà àíãëèéñêîì>() { <òåêñò1> ; <òåêñò2>; ... <òåêñò n>; }
//ïðèìåð: txt_ldm_text1() { Òåêñòîâàÿ ñòðîêà ¹1; }

}
loc_eng()
{txt_brief_single tiger-02() { \n\t\tWell, now it's official: \n\n\t\tWe're surrounded!\n\n\t\tThe breakout is planned for tonight - you and your tank platoon will take the lead, along with whatever infantry support we can collar. You will be heading in the direction of Ritmental, where we think they won't be expecting us. Watch out for ambushes!\n\n\t\tAnd one more thing, don't screw up, or it'll surely be the last time ever for you!; }
}

The name of the text string should not have any spaces in between. Avoid dashes also. Like this: txt_brief_single_tiger_02

Did you add in the 2 lines, mentioned in my earlier post? They should be in the cs_main() section, by the way. Let's take a look at them,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on June 08, 2011, 09:40:58 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 07, 2011, 10:33:24 PM

Do not use section ~~loc_eng()~~!
Write all text in section loc_rus()
The section ~~loc_eng()~~ more isn't actual after localization :)

Additional. The program ignores the standard line breaks and tabs.
So you can divide lines for the convenience
Ie will work like this

Code:

loc_rus()
{
txt_brief_single_tiger_02() { \n\t\tWell, now it's official: \n\n\t\tWe're surrounded!\n\n\t\tThe breakout is planned for tonight - you and your tank platoon will take the lead, along with whatever infantry support we can collar. You will be heading in the direction of Ritmental, where we think they won't be expecting us. Watch out for ambushes!\n\n\t\tAnd one more thing, don't screw up, or it'll surely be the last time ever for you!; } 
}

and this

Code:

loc_rus()
{
	txt_brief_single_tiger_02() { 	\n\t\tWell, now it's official:\n\n\
					t\tWe're surrounded!\n\n
					\t\tThe breakout is planned for tonight - you and your tank platoon will take the lead, along with whatever infantry support we can collar. You will be heading in the direction of Ritmental, where we think they won't be expecting us. Watch out for ambushes!\n\n
					\t\tAnd one more thing, don't screw up, or it'll surely be the last time ever for you!; } 

}

And like say Kith, not use any spaces and dashes in name of identifiers.

P.S. Example of text from mission for video-lesson
Original (http://1ceman.110mb.com/sfkh1942/new_mission_01_loc_data.txt)
Google translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://1ceman.110mb.com/sfkh1942/new_mission_01_loc_data.txt&hl=en&langpair=ru|en&tbb=1&ie=windows-1251)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 09, 2011, 11:16:20 PM

Thank you guys
Here's the edited text in the loc_rus() section.
loc_rus()
{
txt_brief_single_ tiger-02() { \n\t\tWell, now it's official: \n\n\t\tWe're surrounded!\n\n\
t\tThe breakout is planned for tonight - you and your tank platoon will take the lead, along with whatever infantry support we can collar. You will be heading in the

direction of Ritmental, where we think they won't be expecting us. Watch out for ambushes!\n\n\
t\tAnd one more thing, don't screw up, or it'll surely be the last time ever for you!; }

And here's the cs_main()
cs_main()
{
ext, add_misobj, brief, start, 4, txt_brief_single_tiger_02, txt_mis_order;
nop;
}

Kyth, I could not locate your earlier reply about the correct structure for the cs_main although I know I've read it in my travels. I copied this from another single mission, plugged it in and now I get question marks. Now something is at least showing up-progress at last! I'm sure the problem now lies here.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Txema on June 10, 2011, 12:19:21 AM

This is not correct:

txt_brief_single_ tiger-02()

Please, use:

txt_brief_single_ tiger_02()

Txema

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 10, 2011, 01:35:05 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 09, 2011, 11:16:20 PM

Here's the edited text in the loc_rus() section.
loc_rus()
{
txt_brief_single_ tiger-02() { \n\t\tWell, now it's official: \n\n\t\tWe're surrounded!\n\n\
t\tThe breakout is planned for tonight - you and your tank platoon will take the lead, along with whatever infantry support we can collar. You will be heading in the direction of Ritmental, where we think they won't be expecting us. Watch out for ambushes!\n\n\
t\tAnd one more thing, don't screw up, or it'll surely be the last time ever for you!; }

Hi,

txt_brief_single_ tiger-02

What's up with all those spaces and dashes? There's a simple rule : avoid them! :)
When it comes to naming, use alphanumerics and underscores only.

I'll repeat the correct example yet again:

txt_brief_single_tiger_02

To make things consistent, it might be easier to do a 'copy and paste' when it comes to names of strings, contours and such.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 10, 2011, 10:10:03 PM

Thanks guys
Where I'm screwing up big time is mistaking the name of my test mission which is single tiger-02 with the way the game wants to read it single_tiger_02. I've got to be more aware of the lack of spacing and underscoring correctly.

I just edited everything to the way Txema has it and it works...only not in the way I thought it would.

Using Kyth's example in my loc_data.text
loc_rus()
{
txt_brief_single_tiger_02() { \n\t\tWell, now it's official: \n\n\t\tWe're surrounded!\n\n\
t\tThe breakout is planned for tonight - you and your tank platoon will take the lead, along with whatever infantry support we can collar. You will be heading in the direction of Ritmental, where we think they won't be expecting us. Watch out for ambushes!\n\n\
t\tAnd one more thing, don't screw up, or it'll surely be the last time ever for you!; }

and:
cs_main()
{
ext, add_misobj, brief, start, 4, txt_brief_single_tiger_02, txt_mis_order;
nop;
}

I expected Kyth's narrative to show up but it didn't. Instead what I got was a test narrative that I'd been playing with following instructions in the ME manual pg 43. I created a text file per the manual in the SF/data/k42/loc_rus/text folder. I had written my narrative in the loc_rus() section. Now this shows up but Kyth's doesn't.

The manual says that messages, briefings etc are written in the scripts file. So, if I understand correctly, the test narrative I created in the "text" file(not Kyth's) shows up on the lower center screen upon mission start but the work in the "scripts" file shows up when and how? I'm happy that something is working just not understanding why.

How then do I get Kyth's example to show...what triggers it?

Thanks again for all patience with these noob questions.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 11, 2011, 12:15:10 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 10, 2011, 10:10:03 PM

You'll have to delete the unwanted 'briefing' in the text folder. The files in the text folder are intended for general text translations, like menus, editor, campaign / mission names and for the game's stock missions.

Quote from: hemisent on June 10, 2011, 10:10:03 PM

The manual says that messages, briefings etc are written in the scripts file. So, if I understand correctly, the test narrative I created in the "text" file(not Kyth's) shows up on the lower center screen upon mission start but the work in the "scripts" file shows up when and how? I'm happy that something is working just not understanding why.

How then do I get Kyth's example to show...what triggers it?

Think of the Mission files as a set of 4. Everything mission-related has to be contained in one of these files:

- <mission_name>.level
Contains information about the map used, weather settings and links to the other 3 files.

- <mission_name>_loc_data.text
Contains all the text strings relevant to the mission.

- <mission_name>_scripts.engscr
All the scripts, triggers, units are located in this important file.

- <mission_name>_zones.engcfg
All the zones (contours) marked out in the mission map are listed down here.

If you're familiar with files and folders, every mission has a 'tree' of related files. The example below is my 'Mission 1'. Pay special attention to the files marked blue here:

<Steel Fury main folder>\data\k42\loc_rus\
|
|
|
|------------------------------------------------------------------------
| | | |
| | | |
levels\ envs\ images\ text\
| | | Mynewmissions.text
| | |
LEVELS\ M04_Bereka\ backs\
| New_KY_01_lightmap.raw Back_KY_01.tga
|
|
|--------------------------------------------------
| | |
| | |
cm_users\ scripts\ weather\
New_KY_01.level | Weather_Kyth.engcfg
|
cm_users\
New_KY_01_script.engscr
New_KY_01_zones.engcfg
New_KY_01_loc_data.text

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 13, 2011, 10:48:59 PM

Thanks Kyth
I deleted the text file and your narrative popped right up.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 14, 2011, 01:29:48 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 13, 2011, 10:48:59 PM

Thanks Kyth
I deleted the text file and your narrative popped right up.

Don't just stop there, keep going,

There are other subjects to consider:

- Map object Removal or change of colour, in response to triggers
- Map positioning
- Adding Mission objectives in the game screen
- In-game messages

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 14, 2011, 12:29:35 PM

Oh, I'm not stopping there. The next hurdle will be in game messages. And I'm just starting to read up on and play with triggers. More questions to follow ;D

Cheers all!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 14, 2011, 01:28:28 PM

Hemi you sure are dedicated and goal-oriented and it's testament to your determination! Don't let go!Under Kyth's guidance you ll be one hell of good missions maker ;)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 14, 2011, 10:27:54 PM

Frinik
Thanks for the vote of confidence, hope I don't disappoint you. If Kyth has the patience to keep answering my questions I'm sure I'll get it eventually.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 15, 2011, 01:32:11 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 14, 2011, 10:27:54 PM

Frinik
Thanks for the vote of confidence, hope I don't disappoint you. If Kyth has the patience to keep answering my questions I'm sure I'll get it eventually.

H

Don't worry, just keep those questions coming!
Remember, you're breaking new ground here, no one else has been asking the right questions!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 15, 2011, 11:47:09 PM

Ok, here's a question on defense.
I have a village which needs defending from Russian attackers. I have a contour circling the entire village and have it listed as "village" in the positions section. Now, I have three defense areas within the "village" position: def_area_north, def_area_east and def_area_south. Miscellaneous German units are scattered amongst the three defense areas.

Can I use a single script:
village_defense()
{
ext, ai_defence, village, 15, 150;
}
and attach it to each individual unit. If so will the northern units for example, stay put if attacked from the south or will they turn and repel or move toward the southern enemies. Since the script says "village" I would think that all units will try to protect whatever is inside that contour from whatever direction.

If I set up scripts for each defense area that means the units only protect that particular area? Or am I missing something here?

I'm getting a headache :P

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 16, 2011, 01:47:13 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 15, 2011, 11:47:09 PM

The "village" itself doesn't need to be a contour, unless it's for an in-game trigger.

Your defensive positions "def_area_north, def_area_east and def_area_south" should be open contours (not closed loops).
The AI will generally try to find a position in one of those contours. Assuming a unit can find a position, the AI will stick to that position for the duration.
Like I said, this is an assumption, because the AI is quite finicky about what constitutes a good defense position, especially for vehicles. The defense contours help, a little,

Read my earlier post about using single-point contours for AI vehicles defense. And, take a look at some of the existing mission scripts. A useful tool is the Mission Editor, where you can watch the battle unfold - watch it with the contours 'on' and see how the AI behaves.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 16, 2011, 02:30:13 AM

Normlly when you assign a defence area to the units they will not rush forward and move to other areas whereas with the ambush script they tend to to just that no matter what the odds are and get killed.The problem I have noticed with the defence script is that some units fight just a little 2 to 3 shots thne go awhol going off somewhere away from the action and just watch the landscape????

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 16, 2011, 03:13:48 AM

Infantry and artillery are a lot better behaved for static defenses - place them in trenches or dug-in emplacements, select 'stay in trench' and just assign a dummy script for them. They will stay in place as long as their morale holds out.

So don't pooh-pooh the infantry, they're a vital part of any defense with their satchel-charge 'grenades' ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 16, 2011, 09:05:35 AM

Not sure if you were answering me in your post Kyth but I should have specified that the problem I was mentioning had to do with the armoured units.The infantry and artillery/AT are absolutely not a problem in defence mode ( except sometimes excessive passivity until fired upon)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 19, 2011, 10:52:29 PM

Here's the status report and my next questions. I have a village which is being defended on three sides north, east and south. All the friendly(German) units are following a script to defend the village(position). The entire village is outlined and set as a position. So far the enemy units are attacking and friendlies are defending as desired except:

1. My infantry units are placed in trenches facing their correct direction. As soon as firing starts they all get up and go running around instead of staying in the trenches. How do I keep the infantry in the trenches?

2. I have a trigger set (trigger01)for the enemy assault to begin when my unit is inside a certain contour (object in)

Right now some of the enemy is visible from the start of the mission and begins trading fire immediately instead of generating upon the trigger being activated. How do I generate the enemy upon trigger and not immediately(start of mission), or do I have to physically place them all out of line of site.

Here's the script for one of my enemy units.

rus_adv_north()
{
ext, wait_tr, trigger01;
ext, ai_move, village, false, -1, 8;
}

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 20, 2011, 01:14:24 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 19, 2011, 10:52:29 PM

1. My infantry units are placed in trenches facing their correct direction. As soon as firing starts they all get up and go running around instead of staying in the trenches. How do I keep the infantry in the trenches?

You'll have to select the 'stay in trench' option in the divisions tab. The icon with the blue 'down arrow'.

Quote from: hemisent on June 19, 2011, 10:52:29 PM

2. I have a trigger set (trigger01)for the enemy assault to begin when my unit is inside a certain contour (object in)

Right now some of the enemy is visible from the start of the mission and begins trading fire immediately instead of generating upon the trigger being activated. How do I generate the enemy upon trigger and not immediately(start of mission), or do I have to physically place them all out of line of site.

Place them out of sight, they don't generate themselves :) I hope you're using the 'autoplay' tool in the Mission Editor. That's really the fun part about mission-building,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 20, 2011, 04:45:31 AM

YEAH! Autoplay is really fun!!! :D

Hwemi you ccan set or regulate the speed at which the AI ( friend or foe/Armour and infantry) is moving.There's a slider you can use in the ME( also found on the ME toolbar).This way you can delay first contact to avoid premature fighting between opposing units.Sometimes the AI can be frighteningly fast and screw your plans...

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 20, 2011, 05:51:24 AM

Timing is everything in mission design :)
Just set them loose and watch them go in the Mission Editor. I can't tell you how many times I caught the AI doing something odd and unexpected this way, so it teaches you a lot about what works in the game, beyond any written explanations. And it helps a great deal in assessing mission balance (not too easy, but not impossible).

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 20, 2011, 08:52:44 AM

Kyth do you ahve a recipe for Ai that goes awhol during a mission????
It happens to me usually with units of 3 tanks, assigned a defence script wuih a well defined defensive positon.All other units in the same area will behave correctly take up thweir position and fight off the enemy untl exterminated or vitctorious.However It seems there's always a group of 3 tanks which fight fight for 5 minutes , fire a few shots and if not killed or incapacitated in any way will then leave the battlefileld wander off far away from the action and then take position with the commander poking out of the turret and just stare into the horizon.Sometimes but not always, after 10 minutes of sightseeing, while their side has been soundly defeated or victorious ( no trigger applied) one or 2 of them will turn around and head back for the battlefield.

I have tried different tricks or tactics to solve the problem; changed the units positions, script, added triggers nothing works.This happens in various different scenarios with different tanks or spgs...Any idea???( short of court-martialling them)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 20, 2011, 02:11:02 PM

Quote from: frinik on June 20, 2011, 08:52:44 AM

Have you looked into their morale settings? 100% is the default, but I've seen some hiccups where it's set as zero,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 20, 2011, 03:41:02 PM

Can't be the problem I systematically set experience and morale at max when I create my own stuff and even games by others I edit them to have the settings at max as well...

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on June 20, 2011, 05:23:37 PM

frinik.
Please post your Script file of the mission. Maybe there is something wrong.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 20, 2011, 11:25:17 PM

Quote from: Kyth on June 20, 2011, 01:14:24 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 19, 2011, 10:52:29 PM

You'll have to select the 'stay in trench' option in the divisions tab. The icon with the blue 'down arrow'.

Initially I had the outline as a single line with multiple points placed exactly on/over the trench position (open ended) and I have the "Stay in trench" button activated. The mission starts (in the ME---very cool) and the infantry begin in the trench and jumps up and they all take off. I then reconfigured the contour to encompass the trench area and closed the contour, now the infantry starts in the general area but still takes off. This is happening upon mission start when there is no threat.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 21, 2011, 01:28:41 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 20, 2011, 11:25:17 PM

Quote from: Kyth on June 20, 2011, 01:14:24 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 19, 2011, 10:52:29 PM

You'll have to select the 'stay in trench' option in the divisions tab. The icon with the blue 'down arrow'.

I've had good results with assigning the 'dummy' script to infantry units, so they don't have a mind to go traipsing off unexpectedly :) No orders, just have the 'stay in trench' option activated.

Also, check out the 'morale' value given to the unit - 100% should be the default.

Don't close off the trench contour, it's better to leave it open-ended.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 21, 2011, 01:30:38 AM

Quote from: Rends on June 20, 2011, 05:23:37 PM

frinik.
Please post your Script file of the mission. Maybe there is something wrong.

Agreed, Frinik, if you send your datapack, I could give it a try,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 21, 2011, 12:23:58 PM

Kyth

Thanks, I'll try the dummy script. Everything else is as you describe and they continue to run off in all directions. Per your and Frinik's advice I have the moral/experience set at 100%. In this case that makes no difference tho. Will have another go after work today.

Getting close, after this I tackle in game messages-boy, that ought to be fun :-\

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 21, 2011, 03:13:27 PM

Quote from: hemisent on June 21, 2011, 12:23:58 PM

You don't have to set the experience level to 100%, unless they're meant to be elite :) It's defaulted at 20%.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 22, 2011, 03:14:38 AM

Ok, the dummy script worked for my dummy AI infantry. Now they all stay pretty much where I put them. Which leads me to ask what situation would the "defense" scenario be used? Is it only good for vehicles?

Kyth, I figured out that the 100% moral/experience level is elite but, being new at this I want to see what my AI is doing while on their best behavior. I'll tone it down later to achieve some sort of balance once the mission is completed.

Anyway, I'm thinking that the next big hurdle is in game messages. I know that a message is set up with a trigger but even looking at Kyth's single missions I'm confused. If something happens then a message text is generated. Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated. Right now it's back to reading old threads.

Thanks all
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 22, 2011, 03:28:53 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 22, 2011, 03:14:38 AM

'Defense' is good if the units were moving in from somewhere else, and you want them to take up positions at the objective.

Quote from: hemisent on June 22, 2011, 03:14:38 AM

Anyway, I'm thinking that the next big hurdle is in game messages. I know that a message is set up with a trigger but even looking at Kyth's single missions I'm confused. If something happens then a message text is generated. Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated. Right now it's back to reading old threads.

It might be easier to take a look at the stock missions, which are less complex. A good example would be 'Gusarovka' in the stock Panzer IV campaign,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 22, 2011, 10:56:10 AM

Hemi the defence scenario is ideal for entrenched infantry , artillery and AT gun crews, Panzersschreck teams and any tank/SPG you want to stay concealed in an stationary/defensive position rather than move and face the attacking force.

Unfortunately, the ambush script does not really allow your units to keep a defensive stance and spring on the enemy at the last moment as I would have expected.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 22, 2011, 12:06:48 PM

Thanks guys
I'll look at the mission you suggested Kyth and see how it is structured.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 22, 2011, 08:18:31 PM

Ok, back to the in game messages. I found an even simpler example in a mission by Rends----Rends1 is how it dl'd.

I pretty much duplicated his efforts plugging them into a simple test mission using enemy trucks. My question is; While playing through the mission in the ME autoplay will the text/message actually show up?
How do you know if it's working?

Right now nothing shows at the proscribed point in the mission. I don't know if I screwed up or do texts only become visible in the actual mission. I hate to think that one would have to play through a mission in real time to find errors.

Thanks all

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on June 22, 2011, 09:23:43 PM

No. The text doesn´t show up in the ME. But you can hear this bell sound while in ME. It´s the same you hear in game when something shows up in the top text window.
To make sure that everything works you need to play the mission in game.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 22, 2011, 11:05:03 PM

Thanks Rends
I was hoping that wasn't the case but... I'll listen for the sound, at least that"s an indication.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 23, 2011, 02:05:43 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 22, 2011, 08:18:31 PM

How do you know if it's working?

Right now nothing shows at the proscribed point in the mission. I don't know if I screwed up or do texts only become visible in the actual mission.

Those messages should only show up in the actual player's screens. You will get an occasional bell-ring in the Mission Editor, whenever a trigger goes off.

Quote from: hemisent on June 22, 2011, 08:18:31 PM

I hate to think that one would have to play through a mission in real time to find errors.

Now, don't let that discourage you; take that as an incentive to build an enjoyable mission, something you wouldn't mind playing repeatedly ;D

Seriously, there's a hotkey to speed up the in-game time (up to 2x). Just assign your player tank a suitable script in the Mission Editor, fire up the mission, enjoy the ride and check things out. Usually I'd do the on-screen messages after all the basic things are satisfactory: Force balance, scripting and play balance.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 27, 2011, 03:21:22 AM

Hey Guys
After a week of getting jammed up with my work I'm finally back into the ME. I've gotten basic in game messages and basic shelling to work in a test mission but I have a question about the messages.

In one of Kyth's missions there are five different "message_1" lines. How can five different messages all set to work at different times in the mission be under the same name "message_1"? Also, they are in the cs_radio() block. Then there are additional cs_radio blocks 2, 3 etc. I'm confused.

Also, what is the significance of the two numbers in red?

cs_radio()
{

   nop;
   wait_time, 5;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 20, 0;
   ext, wait_tr, Movetoblock;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 25, 1;
   ext, wait_tr, Blocking;
   wait_time, 30;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 25, 2;
   wait_time, 60;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 25, 3;
   wait_time, 30;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 25, 4;
}

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 27, 2011, 03:40:00 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 27, 2011, 03:21:22 AM

In one of Kyth's missions there are five different "message_1" lines. How can five different messages all set to work at different times in the mission be under the same name "message_1"? Also, they are in the cs_radio() block. Then there are additional cs_radio blocks 2, 3 etc. I'm confused.

Also, what is the significance of the two numbers in red?

cs_radio()
{

   nop;
   wait_time, 5;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 20, 0;
   ext, wait_tr, Movetoblock;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 25, 1;
   ext, wait_tr, Blocking;
   wait_time, 30;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 25, 2;
   wait_time, 60;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 25, 3;
   wait_time, 30;
   ext, add_text, txt_mi_mymission1_message_1, 0xff000080, 25, 4;
}

Hi,

txt_mi_mymission1_message_1 is a 'string array'. You can have multiple messages in that array, as long as they're separated with ' ; '

The 2 numbers are display time (seconds), and the sequence in the string array (starts from zero onwards).

As you can see in the 'cs_radio()' block, the messages are in sequence, i.e. message 4 comes only after message 3 is displayed, which is only after message 2, and so on.
The other cs_radio2() and cs_radio3() are to bypass this dependency, they're like parallel tracks. So other messages can get triggered off, outside of the original cs_radio() sequence of events.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 27, 2011, 12:38:05 PM

Thanks Kyth
As always that helps a lot.

Is there any way to get a random message like if a trigger activates "message1" but message1 may be one of three or four different messages that are available to play?

Cheers!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 27, 2011, 12:45:02 PM

Quote from: hemisent on June 27, 2011, 12:38:05 PM

I don't think there's a way to randomize messages like that.
On the other hand, it's possible to randomize division scripts that would trip off different sets of triggers,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 29, 2011, 11:30:45 PM

Hey guys

I know there is a way to have a particular division show up a given percentage of the time, this is a great function for repeated game play. I'd like to know if there is a way to have a shelling/barrage be randomized.

Right now I have my group of tanks entering a given area, they hit a trigger and like clockwork the artillery starts landing. Is there a way to either have the shelling script randomized, the shelling unit itself or perhaps make the actual trigger active only a certain percentage of the time.

Also, I have given my unit of three Tigers the task of reenforcing a village. They have the option of taking one of two routes (roads). I have the enemy attack starting when my unit enters a given contour.

rus_adv_north()
{
   ext, wait_tr, trigger01;
   ext, ai_move, rus_wp_north01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x8;
   ext, ai_move, village, false, -1, 8;
}

This works perfectly when my unit takes the primary road, but what if they take the alternate? Do I need to write/copy the entire script or is there a way to add the alternate trigger line...sort of like this:

rus_adv_north()
{
   ext, wait_tr, trigger01;or ext, wait_tr, trigger02;
   ext, ai_move, rus_wp_north01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x8;
   ext, ai_move, village, false, -1, 8;
}

How do I make the "or" work?

The first mission is nearing completion, just fine tuning now. Taking Kyth's suggestion I'll work on completing the radio messages at the end.

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 30, 2011, 01:44:31 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 29, 2011, 11:30:45 PM

You could have the barrage tied in with a randomly occuring unit, could be something minor like a truck or a kubelwagen. See below on the 'Logic' trigger to combine different conditions into one trigger:

Quote from: hemisent on June 29, 2011, 11:30:45 PM

Also, I have given my unit of three Tigers the task of reenforcing a village. They have the option of taking one of two routes (roads). I have the enemy attack starting when my unit enters a given contour.

rus_adv_north()
{
   ext, wait_tr, trigger01;
   ext, ai_move, rus_wp_north01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x8;
   ext, ai_move, village, false, -1, 8;
}

This works perfectly when my unit takes the primary road, but what if they take the alternate? Do I need to write/copy the entire script or is there a way to add the alternate trigger line...sort of like this:

rus_adv_north()
{
   ext, wait_tr, trigger01;or ext, wait_tr, trigger02;
   ext, ai_move, rus_wp_north01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x8;
   ext, ai_move, village, false, -1, 8;
}

How do I make the "or" work?

The first mission is nearing completion, just fine tuning now. Taking Kyth's suggestion I'll work on completing the radio messages at the end.

Thanks
H

You'll have to use a 'Logic' trigger in this case, to combine different conditions into one overall 'tripwire'.

The Boolean operators for this trigger are:

| (OR)
& (AND)
! (NOT)
^ (exclusive OR)

In the case above, since there are 2 possibilities, trigger01 and trigger02, the logic trigger (lets name it "anyoldway") would be set like this: trigger01 | trigger02

The script above would look like:

rus_adv_north()
{
   ext, wait_tr, anyoldway;
   ext, ai_move, rus_wp_north01, false, -1, 15;
   ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x8;
   ext, ai_move, village, false, -1, 8;
}

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on June 30, 2011, 03:14:57 AM

Kyth

You're a genius!
So, just so I get this straight. Change the trigger from an "object in a contour" as it is now to a "logic" trigger and make it look like this

rus_adv_north()
{
ext, wait_tr, trigger01 | trigger02
ext, ai_move, rus_wp_north01, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x8;
ext, ai_move, village, false, -1, 8;
}

Thank you

PS. Actually, once I got a little further ahead I was going to inquire about the various triggers. I've read the threads pertaining to certain triggers but I still have questions.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on June 30, 2011, 03:21:18 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 30, 2011, 03:14:57 AM

Well, actually, no, :P

You have the set the 'Logic' trigger to encompass the two "object in contour" triggers.

rus_adv_north()
{
ext, wait_tr, anyoldway;
ext, ai_move, rus_wp_north01, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x8;
ext, ai_move, village, false, -1, 8;
}

As a side note, a finer point to mission design, since this is triggered by the player's platoon, it's important to 'expect the unexpected'. You'll have to anticipate the player coming from any direction, not just two, so it might be easier to combine those 2 trigger zones or encompass the entire area with one big zone.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on July 11, 2011, 11:33:24 PM

Hey guys.
Sure has been quiet here for the last few days. Hope everyone hasn't lost interest in the game all at the same time.

I was wondering if there is any way to link or attach two units to each other? I have a unit of three Tiger tanks set to hit certain waypoints and I want to attach a unit of 2 motorized infantry vehicles to the tanks. I have the two half tracks following the same script exactly but they always seem to wander off, act confused at each WP and they never arrive together. All speeds, moral and experience are the same for the two units.

Also, is there a way to find distances in the ME? How far is it from one point to another or how to determine effective ranges of artillery/mortars?

Frinik, I'm sending you a PM.

Cheers!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 12, 2011, 01:31:36 AM

Quote from: hemisent on July 11, 2011, 11:33:24 PM

I was wondering if there is any way to link or attach two units to each other? I have a unit of three Tiger tanks set to hit certain waypoints and I want to attach a unit of 2 motorized infantry vehicles to the tanks. I have the two half tracks following the same script exactly but they always seem to wander off, act confused at each WP and they never arrive together. All speeds, moral and experience are the same for the two units.

Half-tracks and light vehicles follow a slightly different AI, so it's difficult to get them in lock-step with the heavier vehicles. They react to the same terrain differently, unless it's flat as a billiard table :)

Quote from: hemisent on July 11, 2011, 11:33:24 PM

Also, is there a way to find distances in the ME? How far is it from one point to another or how to determine effective ranges of artillery/mortars?

The Map Grid in the Mission Editor covers an area of 2km x 2km. I assume you're not referring to the 'off-map' artillery and mortars, which don't actually have a physical presence.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on July 12, 2011, 03:23:00 AM

Thanks Kyth
Yeah, the light vehicles sure do follow something different. In this case though it's a simple "follow the road" script using five waypoints at intersections. My tank unit follows it perfectly but the light vehicles are pretty much confused. I suppose I'll have to make certain adjustments to get them where I want them to end up.

Thanks for the figure on the grid squares Kyth, I was referring to the actual on map units and how to find out their effective range.

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 12, 2011, 04:26:49 AM

Quote from: hemisent on July 12, 2011, 03:23:00 AM

Thanks for the figure on the grid squares Kyth, I was referring to the actual on map units and how to find out their effective range.

Cheers
H

Not sure about effective ranges, but I think aside from small arms, 2km would be well within maximum range of most of the weapons.
Though you might want to try them out on the 'gunnery range' maps to see how the AI behaves,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on July 12, 2011, 10:15:44 PM

Quote from: Kyth on July 12, 2011, 04:26:49 AM

Though you might want to try them out on the 'gunnery range' maps to see how the AI behaves,

Kyth
Dumb question perhaps but I've never heard of a "gunnery range" map. Please advise.

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 13, 2011, 01:30:49 AM

Quote from: hemisent on July 12, 2011, 10:15:44 PM

Kyth
Dumb question perhaps but I've never heard of a "gunnery range" map. Please advise.

Thanks
H

There are a couple of them I know of:

http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=529.0 (http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=529.0)

http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3713.0 (http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3713.0)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 19, 2011, 07:29:04 AM

Keep plugging away at it, and

Don't give up!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on July 19, 2011, 12:34:59 PM

Hey Kyth
Pluggin' away. Work is just keeping me super busy right now. I'm working on victory/defeat triggers in a test mission. Can't seem to get it right and I just know I'll have more questions for you later.

Hey, where's Frinik been?

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 19, 2011, 01:01:01 PM

Quote from: hemisent on July 19, 2011, 12:34:59 PM

Hey, where's Frinik been?

Cheers
H

Poor fellow has gotten his IP banned, I think ??? But he can still send and receive his PM here.

I wonder if he can get in to the Sub-sim forum?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on July 19, 2011, 04:16:07 PM

Quote from: Kyth on July 19, 2011, 01:01:01 PM

Quote from: hemisent on July 19, 2011, 12:34:59 PM

Hey, where's Frinik been?

Cheers
H

Poor fellow has gotten his IP banned, I think ??? But he can still send and receive his PM here.

I wonder if he can get in to the Sub-sim forum?

If it is the truth he can send me PM with banned here IP.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on July 19, 2011, 08:30:07 PM

How on earth do you get your IP banned? I PM'd him a few days ago and never heard back. Hope all works out as he is one of the great assets to the SF forum here.

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on July 19, 2011, 09:00:03 PM

Kyth
I'm in the victory/defeat trigger mode and right now I have three defeat triggers set up in a test mission. The player side is Germany(single tank)
The scenario is using four Russian trucks driving to contour "rus_end" and stopping.

defeat, 0x2, 1, rus_end;
     defeat, 0x6, 2, rus_end, 2.500, 10.000;
     defeat, 0x8;
     victory, 0x5, 2, rus_end, 2.500, 10.000;
     victory, 0xa;
     victory, 0xc, ambient1, 60.000, 0;

1. {defeat} the party(russian) in a contour
2. {defeat} superiority of opponent in the contour (the opponent of Germany in the "party" option)
threshold,time 2.5
time/min 10

3. {defeat} unsuccessful termination of mission

Question: What's the difference between the threshold,time and time/min

In both the victory and defeat triggers I'd like to know what determines superiority? Is it number of vehicles destroyed, percentage of enemy surviving or killed? How is "superiority" set? I'm thinking it has something to do with "threshold" but not sure.

Thanks in advance
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 20, 2011, 01:45:10 AM

Quote from: hemisent on July 19, 2011, 09:00:03 PM

I think, 1. and 2. are actually separate triggers?
Either 1. the trucks reach the contour, or 2. the Russians achieve force superiority in the contour. You might want to consider combining the two things in a 'logic' trigger, as I described a couple of weeks back,

Quote from: hemisent on July 19, 2011, 09:00:03 PM

Question: What's the difference between the threshold,time and time/min

In both the victory and defeat triggers I'd like to know what determines superiority? Is it number of vehicles destroyed, percentage of enemy surviving or killed? How is "superiority" set? I'm thinking it has something to do with "threshold" but not sure.

Thanks in advance
H

threshold,time: That's the level of 'superiority', in multiples. Threshold of 2.5 in this case would mean that the failure trigger kicks in, when the opposing side has 2.5x or more effective forces in the specified area, compared to your own.

time/min : There's a bit of leeway given after the threshold is exceeded, i.e. you have a certain number of minutes to allow your own reinforcements to move in and retrieve the situation. In this case, 10 minutes. To keep the level of suspense high, you might want to stick with the default value of 3 minutes. :)

There are a couple of things that determine 'force superiority', either:

- The units' numeric values given in the common_units table, or
- The 'effectiveness' values given in the tech_cfg and human_cfg files.

Or it could be a combination of both! ??? The total values for surviving units are constantly being tracked for both sides, so it's a good idea to eliminate the enemy as quickly as possible!

I usually set the trigger threshold at 3x or 4x.

Come to think of it, truck units have very little 'victory point' value, so I hope you're using them with higher-value combat units,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Iceman on July 20, 2011, 10:07:56 AM

Quote from: hemisent on July 19, 2011, 08:30:07 PM

How on earth do you get your IP banned? I PM'd him a few days ago and never heard back. Hope all works out as he is one of the great assets to the SF forum here.

Cheers
H

proxy.org

Update
Ok. I see a new subnetwork of Frinik. Subnetwork already unbanned :)
Sorry Frinik :P

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 20, 2011, 01:17:31 PM

Quote from: Iceman on July 20, 2011, 10:07:56 AM

Quote from: hemisent on July 19, 2011, 08:30:07 PM

How on earth do you get your IP banned? I PM'd him a few days ago and never heard back. Hope all works out as he is one of the great assets to the SF forum here.

Cheers
H

proxy.org

Update
Ok. I see a new subnetwork of Frinik. Subnetwork already unbanned :)
Sorry Frinik :P

Okay thanks, I'll let him know the good news :)

And Frinik, if you're reading this, get back in here, we didn't say you could go yet ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on July 20, 2011, 10:00:24 PM

Ok Kyth

I never got into the logic triggers because I took your suggestion and played with the contours themselves to accomplish the desired effect. Now we're back to the logic trigger discussion.
From your previous post:

Quote from: Kyth on June 30, 2011, 03:21:18 AM

You have the set the 'Logic' trigger to encompass the two "object in contour" triggers.

rus_adv_north()
{
ext, wait_tr, anyoldway;
ext, ai_move, rus_wp_north01, false, -1, 15;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x8;
ext, ai_move, village, false, -1, 8;
}

I"m not understanding how this is accomplished. You have the set the 'Logic' trigger to encompass the two "object in contour" triggers.
When I click on Logic expression in the trigger menu the only box available to work with is at the bottom "line of parameters".

I assume this is where you manually enter the text. If so can you please give me an example using one of the four Booleans operators as you listed here earlier.

| (OR)
& (AND)
! (NOT)
^ (exclusive OR)

I'm guessing that trigger01 | trigger02 would be entered into the parameters box. And in this case I would have to rename my triggers to something like "defeat01" and "defeat02". The operator would then change to "&".

defeat01 & defeat02
But, like I said, it's a guess only.

Thanks Kyth
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 21, 2011, 01:26:24 AM

Quote from: hemisent on July 20, 2011, 10:00:24 PM

You are spot on! Carry on, then,

The logic trigger is easy when you think logically ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 27, 2011, 06:29:09 AM

Hello!

Progressing logically, I hope, :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on July 27, 2011, 09:16:46 PM

Hey Kyth!
Thanks for checking in. Yes, all is proceeding along as well as can be expected(about as fast as a herd of speeding turtles). My work is keeping me really busy and I'm working on it when I can.

Right now the first mission is pretty much completed but still needs the in game messages to be wrapped up. I need to fine tune the victory/defeat triggers tho. The use of the logic trigger helps a lot. Hoping to have it ready for testing (maybe by You or Frinik) in about a week or two.

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on August 08, 2011, 11:04:55 PM

Working on finishing the in game messages and I'm running across a problem with the scripts file not saving in my test mission.
Here's what I initially set it up as:

cs_radio()
{
   ext, wait_tr, trigger01;
   ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message1, 0xffffffff, 10,;
}

cs_radio2()
{
ext, wait_tr, trigger02;
wait_time, 5
   ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message2, 0xffffffff, 10,;
}

cs_radio3()
{
ext, wait_tr, trigger03;
wait_time, 5
   ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message3, 0xffffffff, 10,;
}

I save the file using the "SAVE AS" function and run the test mission which plays out normally except that only the first message shows up. After checking the scripts file I find this:

cs_radio()
{

   ext, wait_tr, trigger01;
   ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message1, 0xffffffff, 10,;
}

ext, wait_tr, trigger02()wait_time, 5ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message2, 0xffffffff, 10,()
{

}

ext, wait_tr, trigger03()wait_time, 15()ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message3, 0xffffffff, 10,()
{

The lines are now messed up/corrupted, the cs_radio(2) & (3) lines are missing completely. I've tried each of these separately and they work but when put together using three cs_radio() lines they don't save.

I've tried this 4-5 times now with exactly the same results. If I close out and open the file the lines are saved but running the game causes the file to change.
Anyone ever had this happen?

Cheers All!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 09, 2011, 12:10:32 AM

Quote from: hemisent on August 08, 2011, 11:04:55 PM

I save the file using the "SAVE AS" function and run the test mission which plays out normally except that only the first message shows up. After checking the scripts file I find this:

cs_radio()
{

ext, wait_tr, trigger01;
ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message1, 0xffffffff, 10,;
}

ext, wait_tr, trigger02()wait_time, 5ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message2, 0xffffffff, 10,()
{

}

ext, wait_tr, trigger03()wait_time, 15()ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message3, 0xffffffff, 10,()
{

The lines are now messed up/corrupted, the cs_radio(2) & (3) lines are missing completely. I've tried each of these separately and they work but when put together using three cs_radio() lines they don't save.

I've tried this 4-5 times now with exactly the same results. If I close out and open the file the lines are saved but running the game causes the file to change.
Anyone ever had this happen?

Cheers All!
H

A couple of comments:

- Every line in the cs_radio block has to end with a " ; "
- Add in the message sequence number in the 'add_text' lines

For example, cs_radio2:

cs_radio2()
{
ext, wait_tr, trigger02;
wait_time, 5;
ext, add_text, txt_test_mission_message2, 0xffffffff, 10, 0;
}

Give it a try, and good luck!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on August 09, 2011, 03:13:39 AM

Once more, thanks again Kyth.

As always it's the little things that bite you in the ass. I changed it as you advised and now works like a champ. ;D

back to work

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on August 11, 2011, 08:35:47 PM

Hello all.
I'm back with another question regarding triggers.
On the triggers page in the ME there are two icons on the left side. One, a little blue house shape and below it a flag. The house icon trigger "works at switching 1 and 0". When I switch it on a ! appears in the trigger line. What does this mean and how is it used?

The flag icon I think is used for one time only trigger activation. Is it better to have the flag activated in using victory/defeat triggers? I've looked at other missions and some have it activated, others don't.

Cheers!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 11, 2011, 09:01:22 PM

Quote from: hemisent on August 11, 2011, 08:35:47 PM

The status of the trigger is inverted, i.e. it starts off 'true' and becomes 'false' when triggered. It's useful if you want to combine it with something else in a Logic trigger,

Quote from: hemisent on August 11, 2011, 08:35:47 PM

The flag icon I think is used for one time only trigger activation. Is it better to have the flag activated in using victory/defeat triggers? I've looked at other missions and some have it activated, others don't.

The one-time activation is good for intermediate goals. Again, if you want to combine it with some other trigger. Example: Task A, then wait for Trigger B, before moving on to C.
Flag off: Wait for Trigger B to kick in, only after Task A is completed
Flag on: Wait for the very 1st instance of Trigger B and remember this state - when Task A is done, you might move on immediately to C.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on August 15, 2011, 12:03:54 AM

How do I delete older missions/titles when first opening the ME screen.

Example: I have a test mission ingeniously titled... "test mission" that somehow became corrupted. Earlier today I tried opening it but got the white screen with core something error. Anyway, I deleted the mission name on the ME screen, I deleted the 3 files _loc_date.text, scripts and zones in the cm users folder but the mission still shows up as a choice in the opening window.

I have a few others I want to get rid of too but until now never really gave it much thought.

Thanks all

Cheers!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 15, 2011, 01:35:01 AM

Quote from: hemisent on August 15, 2011, 12:03:54 AM

There's one more file to delete, the <mission_name>.level file in the cm_users folder,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on August 15, 2011, 03:05:50 AM

Kyth
Thanks for the quick reply. I just checked the cm users folder and there are no files with the .level suffix.
The only files that exist are all _loc_data.text, scripts and zones with the appropriate mission names.

revision:
I just checked again and there are two "cm users" folders. One is under SF/loc_rus/levels/LEVELS/SCRIPTS and the other is LEVELS/cm_users. I guess you mean delete the unwanted mission name in the LEVELS/SCRIPTS folder.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on August 15, 2011, 10:49:49 PM

Kyth
Here's another question about triggers. Specifically "The efficiency of the division has decreased" trigger.
What I want is for a radio message to appear along the lines of "the commander is dead" or something like that. I've been testing this trigger using a single vehicle (tank and APC) as the "commander" division.

I have set the threshold/time slider from .5 all the way to 4.0 and have "killed" the unit on purpose but cannot get the message to activate. I tried this with no enemy forces in the mission.

Then, when I put a large enemy force (8 or 9 tanks) in the mission but far away I tried the whole drill again. When I had the slider set at 4.0 the message triggered immediately on mission start without me "killing" the unit yet.

To cover my bases I tried the same scenario only using the "The efficiency of the object has decreased" and got nowhere too.

In my mind if a division takes hits (or falls into a river and everyone drowns) and some part of it's complement is killed it's efficiency decreases. What am I getting wrong here? Is the slider still based on a ratio of enemy forces as we discussed earlier?

Thanks in advance
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 16, 2011, 03:22:15 AM

Quote from: hemisent on August 15, 2011, 10:49:49 PM

I'd suggest taking care with the deployment of that commander unit, don't place it in trees or in a trench, it could start off upside-down :)

If all else fails, please show us your script,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 29, 2011, 08:33:52 AM

Good evening!

I hope your scripting & triggers are okay now,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on August 29, 2011, 11:36:25 PM

Hi Kyth
Thanks for checking in. Actually I've pretty much got everything sorted out now (I think) with the exception of the damned victory and defeat triggers. No matter what values I place I simply cannot get them to work in anything other than a very simple test mission (3 friendly v 10-18 enemy tanks) The mission I'm working on has a relatively large amount of enemy tank and infantry units attacking a lightly held village with my three tigers rushing to reinforce.

Here's the latest triggers section in my scripts file.

triggers()
{
   breach_north, 0x12, trigger09 | trigger9.5 | trigger9.6;
   breach_south, 0x12, trigger11 | trigger11.5;
   crossroads_shell, 0x12, trigger03 | trigger03.5;
   defeat, 0x20011, 2, 2.000, 3.000;
   defeat, 0x8;
   defeat, 0xb, victory_rus2, 900.000, 0;
   defeat, 0x9;
   trigger01, 0x1, obs tank, start_siege;
   trigger02, 0x20001, single_ truck01, start_barrage1;
   trigger03, 0x2, 2, start_barrage2;
   trigger03.5, 0x1, obs tank, start_barrage2;
   trigger04, 0x1, obs tank, start_barrage3;
   trigger07, 0x1, obs tank, village;
   trigger08, 0x2000e, commander, 3.000;
   trigger09, 0x1, rus_tank_north, village;
   trigger09.5, 0x1, rus_inf_north02, village;
   trigger09.6, 0x1, rus_inf_north01, village;
   trigger10, 0x4, 2, village;
   trigger11, 0x1, rus_inf_south01, village;
   trigger11.5, 0x1, rus_inf_south02, village;
   victory, 0x10, 2, 3.000, 3.000;
   victory, 0xa;
   victory, 0x1, obs tank, village;
   victory, 0xb, victory_ger, 30.000, 0;
}

This is only the latest version of my victory / defeat triggers. I played the mission through last night and managed to survive along with a small amount of defending troops. Wiped out all but a few enemy troops but no victory/defeat indication. At this point I'm open to any suggestions you might have.

I was going to contact either you or Frinik to give the mission a play and critique it. It's my first one and I'd like it to be as right as possible.

Thanks for all your help so far
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 30, 2011, 02:09:47 AM

Okay! I think I see some problems here ;)

Quote

victory, 0x10, 2, 3.000, 3.000; <---- Superiority of friendlies
victory, 0xa;
victory, 0x1, obs tank, village; <---- Your tank reaches the target area
victory, 0xb, victory_ger, 30.000, 0;

- There appear to be 2 separate victory conditions here, you can't combine them this way.

- I suspect the unit name 'obs tank' isn't quite acceptable either, better rename the unit and triggers something like 'obs_tank'.

- Also, better make the Victory conditions a one-time trigger each.

- I think you'll want to group the victory conditions in a 'logic trigger', for example:

got_them_good, 0x20010, 2, 3.000, 3.000; <----- Superiority of friendlies
here_we_are, 0x20001, obs_tank, village; <---- Your tank reaches the target area
victory, 0x20012, got_them_good & here_we_are; <-----Combination
victory, 0xa;
victory, 0xb, victory_ger, 3.000, 0;

Same problem with the Defeat conditions:

Quote

defeat, 0x20011, 2, 2.000, 3.000;
defeat, 0x8;
defeat, 0xb, victory_rus2, 900.000, 0;
defeat, 0x9; <-------------- Player killed

The 'player killed' trigger is actually redundant, the game already recognizes this as 'game over'. No need to add this in specifically.

One finer point to scripting, it's easier if your trigger names are more descriptive. Examples like 'eat_lead' or 'we_blasted_them' convey the intention more clearly ;D which is good if you're reviewing the script later on,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on August 30, 2011, 02:44:35 AM

Thanks Kyth
I'll give it another go with your advice tomorrow and see what happens.

Cheers!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on August 30, 2011, 01:21:47 PM

Kyth, are you sure sure that the "Superiority of friendlies" (or enemy) is working?
I played with the trigger a while ago but couldn´t get it working right. What i got was a mission won message the second after the mission starts or nothing.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 30, 2011, 01:42:02 PM

Hi,

The superiority triggers have worked so far, for me,

What settings did you use for the trigger? I usually set it at 3x or 4x.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on August 30, 2011, 02:55:12 PM

Quote from: Kyth on August 30, 2011, 01:42:02 PM

Hi,

The superiority triggers have worked so far, for me,

What settings did you use for the trigger? I usually set it at 3x or 4x.

Well i played with the trigger some time ago in the early days of modding this sim so i cant remember much. But i´m pretty sure that i didn´t set any slider to 3 or 4x . Just selected the "superiority..." trigger . so this this might be the (my) fault that it wasn´t working?!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 30, 2011, 03:58:21 PM

Yes that could be it,
the default value is "0.5x" which just would not make any sense for a superiority trigger, :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 03, 2011, 01:05:48 AM

Hello it's me again,

I hope the victory / defeat conditions are okay now,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on September 03, 2011, 02:20:12 AM

Hi Kyth
Actually, I'm having a bit of crappy luck here. I may be forced to rewrite my entire triggers file or the entire mission.
I have a case of my scripts.engscr file not saving data (using the "save as" function). I had this problem a few months ago and it somehow cured itself, altho I have no idea why. Anyway I have a shortcut to the Scripts file on my desktop and last night I was making changes to the cs radio blocks, saving then playing the game, changing etc etc. The messages were not happening and I found that my changes to the cs radio section never saved no matter what I did. Tonight I just played the entire mission through for kicks (victory still not working BTW) Closed out of the game, checked my scripts.engscr file and not only did the cs radio block not have my changes again, my entire triggers block disappeared. I opened up the ME and sure as hell the entire triggers section is deleted.

I just did a system restore hoping to bring back yesterdays data but that did not bring back the missing triggers. Is there any way you can think of to get them back? At this point I'm probably going to scrap the entire mission and start from scratch. Shouldn't take too long because most of the trial and error stuff I've gone thru.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 03, 2011, 02:44:45 AM

Hmm quite a mystery ???
I hope you're not trying to save it in a folder like 'Program Files'?

Better to start over, you don't have to scrap the whole mission, just re-do the triggers,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on September 03, 2011, 03:46:51 AM

Actually Kyth,
My SF game folder is in C/Program Files/Lighthouse Interactive/Steel Fury Kharkov 1942.
I think that's the default location for my games. I take it that's a problem?????

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 03, 2011, 03:52:05 AM

Quote from: hemisent on September 03, 2011, 03:46:51 AM

Actually Kyth,
My SF game folder is in C/Program Files/Lighthouse Interactive/Steel Fury Kharkov 1942.
I think that's the default location for my games. I take it that's a problem?????

H

Sometimes it is :P
Never mind, just make sure you have backup copies for your saved files,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on September 03, 2011, 09:42:24 AM

Well not sure if this is the case here but don´t edit the script files with a texteditor and having the same mission loaded in the mission editor the same time. Even a simple reload in the ME will overwrite the the editings you did with the texteditor.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 03, 2011, 10:40:47 AM

;D

Yep that could happen too,

Hemisent, try copying back the trigger block you posted here earlier:

Quote from: hemisent on August 29, 2011, 11:36:25 PM

triggers()
{
   breach_north, 0x12, trigger09 | trigger9.5 | trigger9.6;
   breach_south, 0x12, trigger11 | trigger11.5;
   crossroads_shell, 0x12, trigger03 | trigger03.5;
   defeat, 0x20011, 2, 2.000, 3.000;
   defeat, 0x8;
   defeat, 0xb, victory_rus2, 900.000, 0;
   defeat, 0x9;
   trigger01, 0x1, obs tank, start_siege;
   trigger02, 0x20001, single_ truck01, start_barrage1;
   trigger03, 0x2, 2, start_barrage2;
   trigger03.5, 0x1, obs tank, start_barrage2;
   trigger04, 0x1, obs tank, start_barrage3;
   trigger07, 0x1, obs tank, village;
   trigger08, 0x2000e, commander, 3.000;
   trigger09, 0x1, rus_tank_north, village;
   trigger09.5, 0x1, rus_inf_north02, village;
   trigger09.6, 0x1, rus_inf_north01, village;
   trigger10, 0x4, 2, village;
   trigger11, 0x1, rus_inf_south01, village;
   trigger11.5, 0x1, rus_inf_south02, village;
   victory, 0x10, 2, 3.000, 3.000;
   victory, 0xa;
   victory, 0x1, obs tank, village;
   victory, 0xb, victory_ger, 30.000, 0;
}

And remember my advice about the victory conditions,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on September 03, 2011, 12:48:21 PM

Hey Kyth
I already started to rewrite the triggers last night. Glad I posted the triggers block here as it gives me a starting point.
Shouldn't take too long...just frustrating is all.

Thanks again
H

ps
Still doesn't answer the underlying question of why my saves in the script.engscr don'tsave but the changes at the same time in the loc.data.text file do. With the ME closed. I always save using the "save as file name" function as per Frinik's (i think)advice awhile back.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on September 04, 2011, 12:25:12 PM

Not sure what the root of your problem is perhaps because your game is defaulted into your C drive(Do you have Windows Vista????), I avoid as a rule doing that creating partititions to put my installations there.

One good idea is to save your scripts on notepad and keep them in a separate backup folder so all you need to do is paste thme into your scripts folder.

BTW despite a crippling back problem which is keeping me off the computer and the forum for long stretches of time I have been tinkering/tweaking the explosions, fire and smoke effects into the common res files with satisfactory results.I have been working on that for 5 weeks.I will publish my results.I have managed to increase , in my biased opinion, the game immersion through bigger explosions, denser smoke and higher flames.As well I have redone the shell settings increasing the values for many of tanks and the results are also to my taste.

Natalia is temporarily out of the picture for personal reasons but she has indicated that very soon she ll be back to work on the armour files.
. As for me I have compiled new sounds for shots, explosions and collisions which are a much neede dimprovement over the game stock sounds.I have been unable to email it except one guy who tried it and said he was absolutely delighted with them.I will upload it on Kyth file sharing webpage with instructions( actually very minimal work).

Luck Hemi!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 04, 2011, 03:55:44 PM

Get well soon! I hope you get back in action without delay. :) Natalia, also.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on September 04, 2011, 09:10:44 PM

Hey Frinik
Great hearing from you again, was wondering where you went. Get well soon. The work you're doing sounds great, look forward to checking it out.

As for my scripts saving problem, I have XP and the game installed to the C/program files section just as all my other games have in the past. Is there a better/more compatible location for it? If so, how do I switch it's location?

I now have all my triggers rebuilt and working again. Back to where I was a couple days ago fine tuning messages and the cursed victory/defeat triggers. I tried a logic trigger as Kyth suggested but that does'nt work either. I'm now going back to the manual, scrubbing what I have and starting from scratch...I've got to be missing something but..... ???

Hopefully I'll have the mission ready for you to take a test drive shortly.
Cheers

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on September 05, 2011, 06:02:51 AM

Hemi just partition your hard drive.Create 2 new partitiond call them D and E.Then simply copy your entire game folder into one.Start the game it should work.Then simply delete all your SF game/files in the C drive.ON all my pcs/laptop my installtions are all in newly created partitions I don't keep the game in the C drive.No issues and no amdinsitrators rights requored whenever you need to make a change.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 05, 2011, 06:24:00 AM

Quote from: hemisent on September 04, 2011, 09:10:44 PM

I now have all my triggers rebuilt and working again. Back to where I was a couple days ago fine tuning messages and the cursed victory/defeat triggers. I tried a logic trigger as Kyth suggested but that does'nt work either. I'm now going back to the manual, scrubbing what I have and starting from scratch...I've got to be missing something but..... ???

Lets look at your script file again, :D

I hope you took note of my observation about "obs tank"; it's advisable in the script file to make all names, tags and labels one-word only, for example, "my_tank", "the_tank" or "any_tank".

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on September 06, 2011, 12:32:57 AM

Kyth & Frinik
I took your advice and changed a lot of the unit names. I played the re-triggered mission and it ran nearly perfectly...Success at last I thought. Shut down figuring I'd start up the next am but first I DL'd that 3rd mission from the guy on the sim hg site. Made all the changes he listed. Anyway, long story short, I fired up the ME to get back into the mission and got a core 001 error. Nothing I did helped and the mission appears to be lost/corrupted. Cannot get it to open/run and always crashes at 99%.

I've begun redoing the mission and it's surprisingly going pretty well in just a couple hours time it's nearly half completed. I guess the good thing is I'm learning a lot and most of the trial and error is behind me. I will be taking off for a few days out of state and will finish upon return.

No clue as to why the mission corrupted as there were no changes made whatsoever. I think on my return I'll ask you guys more about this partitioning.

Thanks for everything
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 06, 2011, 02:13:02 AM

Quote from: hemisent on September 06, 2011, 12:32:57 AM

Shut down figuring I'd start up the next am but first I DL'd that 3rd mission from the guy on the sim hg site. Made all the changes he listed. Anyway, long story short, I fired up the ME to get back into the mission and got a core 001 error. Nothing I did helped and the mission appears to be lost/corrupted. Cannot get it to open/run and always crashes at 99%.

???

I guess you didn't have backup copies? Are you still able to open up the mission files in Notepad?
So near yet so far, most inconvenient. Good luck with your re-partitioning.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 16, 2011, 05:15:30 AM

I have a question related the Mission Editor (Mission, rather).... are we there yet? ???

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on September 16, 2011, 11:46:35 AM

Is this thread captured in a timeloop?

Since days it says last post "today" and the thread title gets the new button.
But there isn't something new in this thread!?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 16, 2011, 11:59:31 AM

Not a time loop, but things are certainly going round in circles. :(

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on September 16, 2011, 01:16:26 PM

Hey guys
Yeah, there's something odd going on here. Maybe something to do with the time-space continuum.
Seems really quiet here lately.

Cheers all!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Donken on September 16, 2011, 02:48:06 PM

Quote from: hemisent on September 16, 2011, 01:16:26 PM

Hey guys
Yeah, there's something odd going on here. Maybe something to do with the time-space continuum.
Seems really quiet here lately.

Cheers all!
H

Haha, i have been wondering that too. Looks like all ppl are busy with their lives to much atm :D

But you have had som serious bad luck with your mapmaking. Hope it goes well now. But we are still waiting for your final map :D Its gonna be interesting!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on September 16, 2011, 02:58:13 PM

How do I go about saving/backing up an in-progress mission from the ME to avoid going thru this all over again. I assume it would be similar to packing up a completed mission as if I were to put it out there for you guys to try out. If a corrupted mission occurs I would delete it and plug in the "saved" in-progress mission.

Actually, this whole episode was probably a blessing in disguise as I'm able to streamline a lot of my division names, triggers, scripts etc. Make things a whole lot more understandable. Great learning experience at least.

Better than poking myself in the eye with a dull stick :'(

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 17, 2011, 12:02:45 AM

Quote from: hemisent on September 16, 2011, 02:58:13 PM

Yes, the 'packing' option will be useful,

Make a backup before any significant change,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on September 20, 2011, 07:19:54 AM

:P

I hate to be a noodge, but

Are we there yet? ???

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 12, 2011, 08:57:56 PM

In the ME Triggers section "The efficiency of the unit has decreased" line, at the bottom under perimeters. I understand this is where the designators AA, AB etc can be placed. If I have a division(player) with 3 vehicles(tanks) as I understand it they would be designated AA(player/commander) AB and AC. If I add a second identical division of 3 tanks would they be labeled BA, BB, and BC? And a third? CA, CB and CC?

I've read and re read the past threads dealing with this and I'm still confused.

What I'm trying to do is link a message to the loss of vehicles. Such as: "One of third platoon's Tigers just got hit" or "Second platoon only has one Tiger left"

I got this idea from the recent remake of yl's mission using Rends' map where he's linking the survival of units to mission failure or success.

And Kyth, yes the mission is just about ready-was out of town plus work is crazy lately...at least I have a job so I'm not complaining.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on October 12, 2011, 11:10:22 PM

For tanks, its AA, BA, CA (1st, 2nd and 3rd tanks) in each and every platoon.

I recall one useful discussion:

http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3679.0 (http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3679.0)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 13, 2011, 09:17:42 PM

Hi Kyth
Thanks for the fast reply. Your example is the one I was referring to. So lets say there are three tank divisions:
tank_div01 (player)
tank_div02 (2nd platoon)
tank_div03 (3rd platoon)

I would link the trigger "The efficiency of the unit has decreased" line with tank_div01
and the individual units are AA, BA & CA.

Does that mean that if I link the division tank_div02 the individual units would still be
AA, BA & CA?? And the same with tank_div01??

Where then does the designator BA, BB and BC come into play as you were discussing in the thread? That's where I'm confused.

And since we're talking about the loss of a single tank in a 3 unit division would the "threshold/time" slider be set at 3?

Thanks again
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on October 13, 2011, 11:30:03 PM

Quote from: hemisent on October 13, 2011, 09:17:42 PM

Does that mean that if I link the division tank_div02 the individual units would still be
AA, BA & CA?? And the same with tank_div01??

Yes,

Quote from: hemisent on October 13, 2011, 09:17:42 PM

Where then does the designator BA, BB and BC come into play as you were discussing in the thread? That's where I'm confused.

Grenadier platoons are designated this way, (1st squad, 2nd squad, 3rd squad, 4th squad). It depends how it's listed in the 'common_units' file:

Quote

An infantry platoon (for example a platoon of grenadiers) is defined this way in the ''common_units.engcfg' file:

wer_platoon_gren1,0,1,wer_com_gren,1,wer_squad_gren1,3,,,,,,;

The entire platoon is a "subgroup" labelled A.
The vehicles / squads are labelled as AA, AB, AC and AD respectively.

A mixed platoon ( for example 3 Panzer III & Grenadier Platoon):

wer_platoon_mtank2,0,1,wer_mtank,3,wer_platoon_gren1,1,,,,,,;
There are 4 subgroups ( 3 'wer_mtank' and 1 'wer_platoon_gren1' ) which are designated as A, B, C and D.

The various vehicles are designated:

AA (1st Panzer III)
BA (2nd Panzer III)
CA (3rd Panzer III)
DA (Sk251/10 & Command squad)
DB (Sk251/1 & 1st Squad)
DC (Sk251/1 & 2nd Squad)
DD (Sk251/1 & 3rd Squad)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 14, 2011, 02:50:01 AM

OK!
I think I've got it. I was unclear on the distinction between the tank only units and the infantry related units. The light bulb just went off 9even tho it's still a bit dim).

As always your wealth of knowledge on this is amazing.

Cheers!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on October 14, 2011, 08:51:56 AM

Kyth's knowledge on SF's inner working is uncanny.I think he knows more about the game than its creators.Unless he happens to be one of them? ;)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on October 14, 2011, 09:13:30 AM

You all just need to apply yourself a bit more, to reach the same levels of amazing and uncanny. :o

Remember if I can do it, so can you ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on October 14, 2011, 03:13:16 PM

You are absolutely right Kyth!However my interests lie more in the tweaking I am afraid ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on October 14, 2011, 11:41:38 PM

Is there a way to fail a mission if a friendly platoon got destroyed?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on October 15, 2011, 12:23:34 AM

That would be using the 'efficiency of group / object has decreased' triggers. The threshold would be either 3 or 4,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 23, 2011, 09:37:13 PM

Hi guys
I'm noticing something stupid recently and wondering if anyone's had this happen. My old bugaboo from quite awhile ago, the text brief in the loc_data.text file is rearing its ugly head. I have had this operating for quite sometime now with no problems. However recently I discovered that for whatever reason the brief is not showing up on game start. All the in game messages are ok but the actual initial brief is absent.

The downloaded mission briefs are there but whatever I personally enter is missing. Thinking that perhaps I've screwed something up I went back over the earlier replies in this thread and checked my work. I've even copied/pasted entire text briefs from others' missions but no luck.

Below is the simplest of tests in a mission titled test_mission and even the word Boo! will not come up.

loc_rus()
{

txt_brief_test_mission() { BOO!; }

What I do notice is that on mission start where the briefing screen is blank the slider on the right is half way down, almost as if the game recognizes something is supposed to be there but it will not show the words/text. Could this be from me recently cleaning out the JSGME and re enabling the patches and mods when I installed NTA 1.3?

Thanks in advance

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on October 23, 2011, 09:50:11 PM

Did you check your mapname_scripts.engscr file?

In the cs_main section there should be the entry with the exact same name:

This is from one of my missions (rds1)

cs_main()
{

   ext, add_misobj, brief, map_rds1karte, 4, txt_brief_Rds1, txt_rds1_order;
   nop;
   ext, sel_waypoint, Dorf_ziel1, 0xff00a040, txt_md_zwischensiegcontour, 0;

Where i marked it bold there should be following entry: txt_brief_test_mission in your mission

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 23, 2011, 10:16:37 PM

Rends
That was it. I never thought to confirm in the cs_main section

Thank you
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on October 24, 2011, 06:39:37 AM

Arrgh...

Here's a blast from the past:

Quote from: Kyth on June 07, 2011, 01:32:31 AM

Quote from: hemisent on June 06, 2011, 08:35:03 PM

what I would like is a short, step by step guide to the initial mission briefing.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 29, 2011, 10:35:59 PM

Hi Guys
I find myself going back to Kyth's missions for ideas and one thing that I've not found in any threads is a question dealing with multiple "string array" messages. I have a working string array in my cs_radio() block in a test mission. I have 5 messages showing up in sequence...no problem. I wondered what would happen if I made a second string in cs_radio2(). I put an additional 5 messages together in cs_radio2() and they are now working however it seems like the game over rides the first. Since I inserted the 2nd radio block the original CS_radio() now only shows the very first message in the string and ignores the rest.

Has anyone ever tried this before and if so is it possible? I may have something wrong but can't see what as both arrays work, only not together.

Cheers All!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on October 30, 2011, 05:31:20 AM

Quote from: hemisent on October 29, 2011, 10:35:59 PM

If you could show us the cs_radio() and cs_radio2() blocks, we might find the problem,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 30, 2011, 03:40:55 PM

Hi Kyth
Here's the two radio blocks. I am playing with the idea of having one block specifically for the player unit and the second block for a separate unit. Both of these blocks are happening at roughly the same time in game.

cs_radio()
{

   wait_time, 2;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 0;
   ext, wait_tr, trig01_woods;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 1;
   ext, wait_tr, waypoint02;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 2;
   ext, wait_tr, waypoint02;
   wait_time, 10;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 3;
}

cs_radio2()
{

   wait_time, 8;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 0;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_woods;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 1;
wait_time, 5;
ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 2;
ext, wait_tr, adler_outofwoods;
wait_time, 10;
ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 3;
ext, wait_tr, adler_outofwoods;
wait_time, 15;
ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 4;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_endzone;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 5;

As I said, both strings play ok by themselves.When both blocks are used then cs_radio1 only plays the initial message and radio2 plays out in full sequence.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the timing but..............

Anyway, thanks Kyth for giving it a look.

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on October 30, 2011, 05:16:47 PM

Quote from: hemisent on October 30, 2011, 03:40:55 PM

Here's the two radio blocks. I am playing with the idea of having one block specifically for the player unit and the second block for a separate unit.

I think, u've everth. mixed up :)
What I'd like to suggest, make for each trigger - only one message radio. For example, see a mission for "Churchill", as my point it'll be more easy and u won't be confused, imho.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 30, 2011, 06:43:35 PM

Thanks Lockie
This is just something I was playing around with. One of those "what if" ideas. Don't know if the game limits you to a single string or allows more than one message string. You're right, it does get confusing.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 30, 2011, 07:34:09 PM

Hey Guys
Success! After playing around with timing I got three message strings to play out. One string for the lead unit, one string for a second unit and a third for an overall back and forth between the two units.

cs_radio()
{

   wait_time, 2;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 0;
   ext, wait_tr, trig01_woods;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 1;
   ext, wait_tr, waypoint02;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 2;
   ext, wait_tr, waypoint02;
   wait_time, 10;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 3;
}

cs_radio2()
{

   wait_time, 8;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 0;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_woods;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 1;
   wait_time, 5;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 2;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_outofwoods;
   wait_time, 10;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 3;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_outofwoods;
   wait_time, 15;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 4;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_endzone;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 5;
}

cs_radio3()
{

   ext, wait_tr, adler_endzone;
   wait_time, 15;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message3, 0xff000080, 5, 0;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_endzone;
   wait_time, 25;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message3, 0xff000080, 5, 1;
   ext, wait_tr, rus_wp2;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message3, 0xff000080, 5, 2;
   ext, wait_tr, forward_zone;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message3, 0xff000080, 5, 3;
   ext, wait_tr, rus_dead01;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message3, 0xff000080, 5, 4;
   ext, wait_tr, rus_dead02;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message3, 0xff000080, 5, 5;
   ext, wait_tr, rus_dead03;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message3, 0xff000080, 5, 6;
}

I think this may help out a lot in a more complicated, longer mission. Lockie you're sooooo right...it gets a bit complicated but it's kind of neat too.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on October 30, 2011, 09:13:08 PM

Quote from: hemisent on October 30, 2011, 07:34:09 PM

It's too much complicate :) But if it works, then should we know it's a Christmas? ;)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on October 30, 2011, 11:47:07 PM

Just a few comments:

- Message display times are very short, just 5 seconds each? It's easy to miss them if they just flash by,

- Some of the entries below depend on the same trigger more that once. They could be separated using just the 'wait_time' interval. (by the way, why is cs_radio2 indented after the 4th line?):

Quote from: hemisent on October 30, 2011, 03:40:55 PM

cs_radio()
{

   wait_time, 2;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 0;
   ext, wait_tr, trig01_woods;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 1;
   ext, wait_tr, waypoint02;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 2;
   ext, wait_tr, waypoint02;
   wait_time, 10;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message1, 0xff000080, 5, 3;
}

cs_radio2()
{

   wait_time, 8;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 0;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_woods;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 1;
wait_time, 5;
ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 2;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_outofwoods;
wait_time, 10;
ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 3;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_outofwoods;
wait_time, 15;
ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 4;
   ext, wait_tr, adler_endzone;
   ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 5;

- I suspect the game can only handle 10-second blocks, so it's possible that cs_radio() and cs_radio2() are interfering with each other if they're spaced too closely together,

- Or if they share the same triggers.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on October 31, 2011, 05:22:24 AM

Hi,

As a general point on mission-making and cs_radio blocks, I use each one for a sequence of events,

ie. Trigger 1, followed by Message 1, then an interval or wait for another trigger, then Message 2, then another interval or trigger, then Message 3, and so on.

The problem with the above is that Message 2 must follow Message 1. Message 3 must follow Messages 1 and 2, like a railroad.

If you have a lot of different messages to trigger off, this could be a problem since they don't always follow one after the other.
You can get around this restriction by using multiple blocks, and have several tracks running in parallel:

cs_radio1 : Trigger 1, followed by Message 1, then an interval or wait for another trigger, then Message 2, then another interval or trigger, then Message 3, and so on.
cs_radio2 : Trigger a, followed by Message a, then an interval or wait for another trigger, then Message b, then another interval or trigger, then Message c, and so on.
cs_radio3 : Trigger x, followed by Message x, then an interval or wait for another trigger, then Message y, then another interval or trigger, then Message z, and so on.

Try not to have too many unnecessary parallel tracks running at the same time, I suspect it may slow down the game,

ps. The same principle applies to 'cs_main' and 'cs_map'.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 31, 2011, 09:46:09 PM

Hi Kyth
Thanks for your input. This was something I was playing around with and found that it actually did work. The short message times (5) were simply because I thought one message might be interfering with another so I condensed them to see what might happen. The end result was, yes the 5 second time does show up and yes, it is so short it may be missed...the point is that in my test scenario it all worked.

As for the indentation you mentioned. beats me, after I ran the game and closed it that was what showed up when I opened the scripts folder.

As for this:
ext, wait_tr, adler_outofwoods;
wait_time, 10;
ext, add_text, txt_testmission_message2, 0xff000080, 5, 3;
ext, wait_tr, adler_outofwoods;
wait_time, 15;

You're right, in this scenario with the same trigger a simple wait time would have worked out better-I did not know so I entered this way.

The reason I got into all this was because I have a mission in which I eventually had 19 messages that I wanted to show up. After entering them all I found that my cs_radio section looked like this:

cs_radio()
cs_radio10()
cs_radio11()
cs_radio12()
cs_radio13()
cs_radio14()
cs_radio15()
cs_radio16()
cs_radio17()
cs_radio18)
cs_radio19()
cs_radio2()
cs_radio3()
cs_radio4()
cs_radio5()
cs_radio6()
cs_radio7()
cs_radio8()
cs_radio9()

The blocks were out of sequence and messages were not showing up. I think the game was confused. I was going to post a question when I came up with the idea of multiple strings. Hence this test exercise.

If there is a way to have more than cs_radio() thru cs_radio9() blocks work I'd rather do it that way...this gets very confusing after a bit.

ps. The same principle applies to 'cs_main' and 'cs_map'. Kyth, I'm stumped on this. What is the purpose of multiple 'cs_main' and 'cs_map' blocks? I've seen it but have no idea why.

As always thanks for your help.
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on October 31, 2011, 09:55:27 PM

Quote from: hemisent on October 31, 2011, 09:46:09 PM

ps. The same principle applies to 'cs_main' and 'cs_map'. Kyth, I'm stumped on this. What is the purpose of multiple 'cs_main' and 'cs_map' blocks? I've seen it but have no idea why.

When the scenario has multiple objectives, the human player might not always oblige by following the same sequence. :)
So it's a good idea enable multiple parallel tracks for assignment of objectives and map changes. A non-linear mission, so to speak. Makes the mission less easily broken.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on October 31, 2011, 11:25:46 PM

Thanks Kyth

Do you have any thoughts on a way to get more than 9 cs_radio lines to work without using a message string as per my example of 19 above?

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 01, 2011, 02:19:30 AM

Quote from: hemisent on October 31, 2011, 11:25:46 PM

Do you have any thoughts on a way to get more than 9 cs_radio lines to work without using a message string as per my example of 19 above?

The question is why would you want to? ???

You can also use the "add_text" command for single messages, also a 'Text' sub-trigger. The detailed explanation is in the editor manual,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 02, 2011, 10:17:58 PM

An odd thing just happened. I'm test playing a mission which I'm wrapping up in the ME. The mission plays fine, a few tweaks and it's done. I want to make a small change to one of the contours so I close the game, open the ME, go to the mission and... ALL MY TRIGGERS ARE GONE!!!!. The entire trigger list is empty. I then go to the scripts file (not through the ME access icon) and they are totally gone. Luckily I've been backing up my mission files and copy/paste the saved triggers back where they're supposed to be and all is well.

Does anyone have an idea what causes this or what I could have done to prevent it. Damn near had a heart attack.

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 02, 2011, 11:27:42 PM

Is it possible you're putting too much into one mission script?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on November 03, 2011, 12:33:56 AM

Quote from: hemisent on November 02, 2011, 10:17:58 PM

..The mission plays fine, a few tweaks and it's done...

May I suppose, that this mission w'll be devoted to PzIII?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 03, 2011, 12:40:08 AM

Or you accidentally clicked on the Reload or New MIssion buttons????

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 03, 2011, 04:47:11 AM

Hemisent,

If I may make a suggestion, quickly compile your mission into a datapack and e-mail it to anyone who is interested. With suggestions and edits, things will go a lot faster,

I'd like to have a copy, by the way, :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 03, 2011, 07:55:50 AM

Me too! :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: murkz on November 03, 2011, 08:09:18 AM

Me three :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 03, 2011, 10:35:43 AM

I guess that makes us the 3 Murkzketeers ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 03, 2011, 03:23:00 PM

Quote from: Kyth on November 02, 2011, 11:27:42 PM

Is it possible you're putting too much into one mission script?

Hi Kyth
I never thought of that to be honest. The mission plays perfectly with no glitches but to be honest there are quite a few triggers. I seem to recall seeing other missions with large scripts tho. Is there a general guideline to be kept in mind? The only thing I still have problems with are the victory and defeat conditions.

Quote from: lockie on November 03, 2011, 12:33:56 AM

May I suppose, that this mission w'll be devoted to PzIII?

Lockie,
Sorry no, it involves a group of three Tigers sent to help defend a hilltop village from
assault.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 03, 2011, 03:29:43 PM

Quote from: Kyth on November 03, 2011, 04:47:11 AM

Kyth
How do I do that? Great idea as I could use some input from more experienced minds.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 03, 2011, 03:38:52 PM

Quote from: hemisent on November 03, 2011, 03:29:43 PM

Quote from: Kyth on November 03, 2011, 04:47:11 AM

Kyth
How do I do that? Great idea as I could use some input from more experienced minds.

H

Select your mission and use the 'Pack' button:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HbulnKKjoiw/TcADkz70xWI/AAAAAAAAATU/7G0_HqbRBi8/s800/createmis.jpg)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on November 03, 2011, 04:37:45 PM

Kyth,
if i try to pack one of my mission it won´t be packed all files into one big. Just a few files will be packed. If i remember correctly the ones from the levels/envs folder. But the other mission stuff or the files from loc_rus_envs won´t be packed into the datafile.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 03, 2011, 05:15:16 PM

Yes, just the bare essentials, nothing else,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Rends on November 03, 2011, 06:37:33 PM

But is it worth to pack if you still need to add the dozen others?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 03, 2011, 11:35:42 PM

It's a quick way to share missions for further testing / discussion, assuming it uses all the standard maps etc.
Not much required for beginners,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 20, 2011, 11:11:20 PM

Upon cleaning up a mission to send to Kyth for his comments, I noticed something odd. In my loc_data.text file I was changing a few things in the mission brief(spacing, indents etc), the mission brief has been showing up properly up to now and just needed some minor touchups. I made my changes and saved them. I ran the game and the changes were not there-it stayed the same. I checked my work and all appeared to be ok but after running the game again the changes remained. ok, a good question for the forum. I moved on.

I then went and made a few changes to the cs_radio file for in game messages, a couple weren't activating when I wanted--again minor touchups. Made my changes, played the game and no difference.
It was as if the game was reading some other file from somewhere.

I then made backups of everything, I deleted the entire mission brief to what you see below in the loc_data.text file.
loc_rus()
{

{

and ran the game.

The complete mission brief with the full text still showed up. I then put all my backups into a JSGME format and deleted the entire mission from both the ME and the game itself. Ran the game and the mission was gone. I re installed the mission and enabled it.

The mission runs properly as before but the mission brief is STILL SHOWING even tho there is nothing but the empty space as in the example above. I even went and made obvious changes in the cs_radio log as a test just to see and they never activated.

I'm completely baffled by this one.

Kyth, I'm sending you the mission to see what your views are on this.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 21, 2011, 02:15:27 AM

Hemi did you remove your mission from the user_camp folder( I assume it's a user made mission?)?Even if you delete it from your ME it still remains in that folder until you manually erase it.Also check your SCRIPTS folder to see whether it's still not there along with the loc_data, and zones engscr.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 21, 2011, 04:33:57 AM

Quote from: frinik on November 21, 2011, 02:15:27 AM

Hi Frinik
Yes, I deleted the actual mission line from the user_camp.engcfg also I deleted the zones, scripts.engcfg and loc_data.engcfg files. Also the text file. I deleted all traces that I know of pertaining to that one particular mission. That's what has me stumped. I know in Silent Hunter there where separate files in My Documents that the game also read from but I can't find any elsewhere.

Somehow the game isn't picking up the changes(or deletions) in the scripts and loc_data files I think. I can e mail it to you also if you're interested? I welcome any thoughts on this as I've not read of this happening before. If I'm screwing up I sure want to know about it and correct it if I can.

But, and this is a huge but, this would explain why some changes I've made previously in the ME don't seem to have any effect after I run the mission.

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 21, 2011, 10:05:19 AM

Suire Hemi email me the file I'll see what I can do or find out.But you don't mention the SCRIPT file did you look into it????

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 21, 2011, 12:17:47 PM

Quote from: hemisent on November 20, 2011, 11:11:20 PM

I then made backups of everything, I deleted the entire mission brief to what you see below in the loc_data.text file.
loc_rus()
{

{

and ran the game.

The complete mission brief with the full text still showed up. I then put all my backups into a JSGME format and deleted the entire mission from both the ME and the game itself. Ran the game and the mission was gone. I re installed the mission and enabled it.

The mission runs properly as before but the mission brief is STILL SHOWING even tho there is nothing but the empty space as in the example above. I even went and made obvious changes in the cs_radio log as a test just to see and they never activated.

I'm completely baffled by this one.

Kyth, I'm sending you the mission to see what your views are on this.

I gather that you're trying to get rid of your old briefing text? It's possible that it resides somewhere else, other than the loc_data.text file. For instance, there are plenty of other files in the text folder.

I've taken a look at your mission, and you may be glad, there's no briefing text:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3dOgUWIfgtE/TspCbmsTI2I/AAAAAAAAAfY/1SiLVC1SSPk/s800/brief.jpg)

Some time ago, in this very thread, there was some discussion about the 'cs_main' entry, regarding the string name for the briefing:

Quote

ext, add_misobj, brief, start, 4, txt_brief_shamonin, txt_mis_order;

You might want to try renaming it and create a new briefing text with that name.

Good luck,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 21, 2011, 12:40:56 PM

By the way, I hope you haven't installed the game in the Program Files folder?

A lot of odd things can happen with that, like what you've been describing, with the system playing 'bait and switch' on you. ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 21, 2011, 02:45:40 PM

Hemisent,

As promised, I've played through your mission a couple of times to check out the scripting. Some observations:

- The zig-zag movement script at the beginning could do with some simplifying, since it appears to be going through open country. Although the scenic route reminds me that the Taranovka map is lovely and highly replayable ;D

- The 'total defeat' condition requires your tank to reach the village and the enemy to achieve superiority there? Is that correct? Seems to me you could avoid defeat by skulking around outside the village to take pot-shots :)

- Some helpful waypoint objectives could be useful, if the player would like to issue his own movement orders.

- The 2nd platoon's delay could be simplified to use a Timer trigger.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 21, 2011, 10:59:54 PM

First off, Thanks Kyth for checking it out. I welcome the comments.

Quote from: Kyth on November 21, 2011, 12:40:56 PM

Actually, yes I have it in the Program files. This also was discussed here earlier but I just am unsure of how exactly to install it elsewhere. I really don't want to uninstall/reinstall the entire game as it was a huge pain initially. Can you advise me if I can simply cut/paste the game from Program files to a different location?

Quote from: Kyth

You might want to try renaming it and create a new briefing text with that name.

Eureka! That did it! Thank you. I wonder if that's the problem I'm having with the cs_radio messages too? It's reading from somewhere other than the files I deleted and reinstalled.

Quote from: Kyth

- The zig-zag movement script at the beginning could do with some simplifying, since it appears to be going through open country. Although the scenic route reminds me that the Taranovka map is lovely and highly replayable Grin

- Some helpful waypoint objectives could be useful, if the player would like to issue his own movement orders.

The scenery in this map is so cool that I wanted the tank units to go on a road march following unfamiliar maps to get there but I will add waypoint markers, great idea. If you had the "correct" mission briefing it may have made more sense to you.

Quote from: Kyth

- The 'total defeat' condition requires your tank to reach the village and the enemy to achieve superiority there? Is that correct? Seems to me you could avoid defeat by skulking around outside the
village to take pot-shots Smiley

That's one of the problems I get with the defeat/victory conditions. No matter what I do or change I cannot be defeated unless my tank is destroyed. But, now that I know the game may be reading files other than the ones I'm working with that may be the reason for all this confusion.

Quote from: Kyth

- The 2nd platoon's delay could be simplified to use a Timer trigger.

There actually is a random delay set for the second unit. It apparently didn't trigger for you.

Quote from: Frinik

Also check your SCRIPTS folder to see whether it's still not there along with the loc_data, and zones engscr.

Yes Frinik, that was the first thing I thought of---wish it was that simple. BTW, I think I still have your address and will e mail it shortly.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 21, 2011, 11:07:39 PM

Quote

Quote from: Kyth

You might want to try renaming it and create a new briefing text with that name.

Eureka! That did it! Thank you. I wonder if that's the problem I'm having with the cs_radio messages too? It's reading from somewhere other than the files I deleted and reinstalled.

Hi,

I forgot to mention, I got all the messages fixed,

You'll need to be careful about the loc_data.text file, each message string array needs to have a set of curly brackets. '{' to begin, and '}' to end each string array.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 21, 2011, 11:47:51 PM

Quote from: Kyth on November 21, 2011, 11:07:39 PM

I forgot to mention, I got all the messages fixed,

You'll need to be careful about the loc_data.text file, each message string array needs to have a set of curly brackets. '{' to begin, and '}' to end each string array.

Hi Kyth
Thanks.
You mean like this?

loc_eng()
{
txt_shamonin_message1(){ \n White One to all units....follow me!;
=RADIO MESSAGE=:White One this is Four...be advised that White Six has stalled and is trying to restart. The maintenance trolls are on the way....will contact you as soon as we can get him up and running.;
Driver! Turn left, the main road is off to the left!;
}
{
txt_shamonin_message2(){ \n =RADIO MESSAGE=:White One...this is Four, we are on the move and will try to catch up.;
Driver: Luetnant! Can we get through that! What about the road to the North?;
}

Could I ask you to post or e mail me the corrected messages to see what I have wrong?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 22, 2011, 01:25:25 AM

Quote from: hemisent on November 21, 2011, 11:47:51 PM

No, like this:

loc_eng()
{

txt_shamonin_message1(){ \n White One to all units....follow me!;
=RADIO MESSAGE=:White One this is Four...be advised that White Six has stalled and is trying to restart. The maintenance trolls are on the way....will contact you as soon as we can get him up and running.;
Driver! Turn left, the main road is off to the left!;
}

txt_shamonin_message2(){ \n =RADIO MESSAGE=:White One...this is Four, we are on the move and will try to catch up.;
Driver: Luetnant! Can we get through that! What about the road to the North?;
}

}

Those open and close curly brackets are very important from a programming point of view, so you need to make it a 'second nature' :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 22, 2011, 02:27:06 AM

Hemi you didn't send me your mission?

Anyway yes you can copy entire your entire game folder into a different drive.Just copy the folder it will take up to 45 minutes depending on how big the folder is qnd how fqst your processor is.Then go to the original game in the program Files and uninstall it.This way you 'll avoid tehcnical issues.Don't cut it qnd paste it.Just copy the original instead and then uninstall after you have pasted and tested your new copied install.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 22, 2011, 04:02:50 AM

Quote from: frinik on November 22, 2011, 02:27:06 AM

Anyway yes you can copy entire your entire game folder into a different drive.Just copy the folder it will take up to 45 minutes depending on how big the folder is qnd how fqst your processor is.Then go to the original game in the program Files and uninstall it.This way you 'll avoid tehcnical issues.Don't cut it qnd paste it.Just copy the original instead and then uninstall after you have pasted and tested your new copied install.

Well, that's good news. And re-create any desktop shortcuts too,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 22, 2011, 09:01:19 AM

It works Kyth believe me.I have done more than 50 times and never had any problems.I have SF installed on 1 desktop and 2 laptops and all are copies.What I do is keep all the installs on an external hard drive so I can easily copy new installs on any laptop or pc should one install become corrupt.The external hard drive acts as back-up copy for all.A new installation is fine as long as you don't lose and full installs with mods and missions installed and you simply need a separate installation for testing.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 22, 2011, 02:17:33 PM

Quote from: frinik on November 22, 2011, 02:27:06 AM

Frinik
Great news-thank you. What location other than Program Files would be best. I have XP.
Mission on the way now.

Cheers!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 22, 2011, 02:47:18 PM

Hemi is your hard disk partitioned?If not then just create a new folder which you can call SF Beta or something in your C: drive main folder.It's always a good idea to partition a hard drive so you can create a special partition to host your games.Or even 2 depending on the size of your HD.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 22, 2011, 02:55:45 PM

Hi Frinik
I'm pretty sure it's not partitioned and I have no clue how to do that. I think for now I'd like the simplest way to do this. So I just create a folder in C:drive, name it and copy the game to that new one? Do I need to do anything with the mod installer like disable or remove mods & mission ?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 22, 2011, 04:11:52 PM

No you copy the game folder entirely.Don't open it to individually copy every single file.What I do is simply copy the folder9 right click and just copy.Once you have made the new copy uninstall the other one completely otherwise having 2 copies of the same game in the C;drive mean the original game install would override the copy.Your copy of the game will contain verything the original one had mods enabler, missions, mods etc.It's just a clone basically.

As to partition even a noob like me can do it.It's very easy.Open your control panel.Then click on the System and Security folder which is the first one on top.Then you'll see at the bottom the Administrative Tools subfodler containing seevral files including; free up disk space, defragment your hard drive and create and format hard disk partition.This is the one you click.You open it and will see on the upper ledt side of your screen a small wiondow callwed disk management opening up.It shows a graph of your hard disk including the total size of it.It says primary partition( healthy, boot etc).Right click on it qnd you'll hqve q vqriety of options including shrink.Click on it qnd decide by how much you want to shrink your primary partition to creaate a new one.Once you enter your value says 100 gigabytes then click Ok.It will create a new partition which you will have to confirm and name.Call it what you want B or D or E.It will appear on your Duisk management screen as a retcangle with green borders and the size of it.Close and save if asked to and it's ready to be used.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 23, 2011, 09:58:46 AM

Hi Hemi!

I got your mission and had the chance to play it only once and not completely because it was very late and had to go to bed.Still quite nice! My Tiger almost got maimed by the surprise artillery barrage on the road to Taranovka village.Retaking the village from the Soviets was not difficult just the pesky infantry that needs time to eliminated.All in all good fun! Just one comment; I would suggest altering the balance of forces a bit in favour of the Soviets; they only have pea shooters like the Mark III and some T34s and KV1s while the Germans have lots of Tigers and Paks.To make the mission more challenging I would suggest replacing the Valentines with Churchills and the T34/40 or 41 models with T34/42 s or 85 and the KV-1s with KV-1es????You could also add SU-122 or 152 acting as heavy artillery.I would also switch some of the Tigers to Panzer IVsF I or II or Stugs III F or G. You keep 2 or 3 Tigers only backed with Stugs or Panzer III/IVs and Panzergrenadiere.Playing the mission at balance 10 as I always do that would make it tougher for the German player.I 'll try my ideas in your mission and I can email it to you for playing and testing if you want?

Anyway it's good to know that you and John are following in the footsteps of Kyth and Rends!!!!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 23, 2011, 01:44:18 PM

Quote from: frinik on November 23, 2011, 09:58:46 AM

Frinik
Thanks a lot. That's exactly what I needed to know. I sometimes get stuck in the Tiger or Panther only.
You're very experienced in what makes a good and replayable mission and I value your opinion. Looking forward to getting your changes.

Also, a big thanks to Kyth for setting me straight on the minor fixes to the radio messages-all are working perfectly now.

Cheers
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 23, 2011, 01:49:46 PM

Yes we hope to see the finalized mission(s) soon,

It's been delightful target-practice in the Tiger ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 23, 2011, 04:16:16 PM

OKidoki I will work on Hemi's mission or should we call it Hemission ;D?BTW why do you call the village Sheimolin?It's Taranovka isn't it?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on November 23, 2011, 09:30:49 PM

Quote from: frinik on November 23, 2011, 04:16:16 PM

OKidoki I will work on Hemi's mission or should we call it Hemission ;D?BTW why do you call the village Sheimolin?It's Taranovka isn't it?

No reason. I was looking for a name for an out of the way village and found this name in my search of Russian villages and towns. It was different and I'd never heard of it before.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 24, 2011, 02:09:34 AM

OK as long as you don't call it Potatov ;D

Anyway i changed the tanks as explained and the mission is tougher.NOwe there are 3 Su-122s,9 T-34s, 6 KV-1s and 3 Churchills.I fet the Paks 38 but replaced all the Tigers save 2 by Panzer IVs, Stugs III F and G.Tested it but unable ti finsih as it was late and I had downloaded and installed Jagdtiger which I did nto get a chance to try various types.Will finish ti and release it Friday.BTW I am getting all the radio messages fine!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 24, 2011, 05:51:18 AM

Quote from: frinik on November 24, 2011, 02:09:34 AM

OK as long as you don't call it Potatov ;D

Potatopov would be a fine name ;D

Other bright ideas:

- Tomatovka
- Chugaluga
- Blubs

;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 24, 2011, 10:13:00 AM

Hem re the Blubs I object since the name is already taken by a well-known Panzer III mission taking place on another map which has a well known river river called by that name."Quiet Flows the Blubs" for those not well versed is Steelfurology.... ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on November 24, 2011, 12:41:56 PM

Sad to say, 'Glug' is also taken.

Never mind, these are still available:

- Meeskamooska
- Peepski

;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on January 02, 2012, 03:54:57 AM

Hello,

I'm still eagerly awaiting the finalized version of Shamolin, hope to see it soon ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on January 02, 2012, 06:49:38 PM

Quote from: Kyth on January 02, 2012, 03:54:57 AM

Hello,

I'm still eagerly awaiting the finalized version of Shamolin, hope to see it soon ;D

Hi Kyth
The mission is done and thanks to Frinik's tweaks to the units both the victory and defeat conditions work much better. I am just trying to insert the squarish colored waypoint or position markers (your suggestion) and am having a problem getting them to show up. I've been trying to duplicate the map object from a simple single mission of YL's.

What I have done is create a couple single contours in a test mission and named them: The_proposed_site and Village. I then copied into my loc_data.text

loc_rus()
{

txt_ldm_text1() { The proposed site; }
txt_ldm_text2() { Village; }

}

In my scripts file I copied what I think are the related lines:

cs_main()
{
ext, sel_waypoint, The_proposed_site, 0xff00a040, txt_ldm_text1, 0;
ext, sel_waypoint, Village, 0xff00a040,txt_ldm_text2, 0;
}

Kyth, can you please advise me what's missing here?

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on January 03, 2012, 01:51:07 AM

Quote from: hemisent on January 02, 2012, 06:49:38 PM

I am just trying to insert the squarish colored waypoint or position markers (your suggestion) and am having a problem getting them to show up. I've been trying to duplicate the map object from a simple single mission of YL's.

What I have done is create a couple single contours in a test mission and named them: The_proposed_site and Village. I then copied into my loc_data.text

loc_rus()
{

txt_ldm_text1() { The proposed site; }
txt_ldm_text2() { Village; }

}

In my scripts file I copied what I think are the related lines:

cs_main()
{
ext, sel_waypoint, The_proposed_site, 0xff00a040, txt_ldm_text1, 0;
ext, sel_waypoint, Village, 0xff00a040,txt_ldm_text2, 0;
}

Kyth, can you please advise me what's missing here?

Thanks
H

Try renaming the contours and their references without caps: 'the_proposed_site' and 'village'.
They should show up in the game when you press the '+' key,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on January 03, 2012, 10:40:56 PM

Kyth
No joy! I changed the single contour to lower case, changed the file below to lower case and nothing happens. I should mention that I changed the contour in the Outlines>Maps section as I've seen others do. I can't see how this should make a difference.

cs_main()
{
ext, sel_waypoint, the_proposed_site, 0xff00a040, txt_ldm_text1, 0;
ext, sel_waypoint, village, 0xff00a040,txt_ldm_text2, 0;
}

I've gone over this backwards and forwards and can't figure it out, as before the answer is usually very simple.

Thanks
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on January 03, 2012, 11:04:11 PM

Code:

cs_main()
{
              ext, sel_waypoint, the_proposed_site, 0xff00a040, txt_ldm_text1, 0;

}

I'd suggest u to avoid confusing, name all waypoints as map_wpt01, map_wpt02...
Try to name txt file for waypoints as txt_fg_uni_wpt01.
So, finally:

Code:

cs_main()
{
              ext, sel_waypoint, map_wpt01, 0xff00a040, txt_fg_uni_wpt01, 0;

}

In the ***_loc_data.text:
//WAYPOINTS
txt_fg_uni_wpt01() {Task#1;}

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on January 04, 2012, 02:23:26 AM

Quote from: hemisent on January 03, 2012, 10:40:56 PM

Hi,

I'd like to clarify that the waypoints aren't objects on the Briefing map, they're actually seen in the game itself.
They're visible as little square, green icons and you can use the '\' key to get them to show up, and '+' key to run through each one.

One more thing that comes to mind: Your other text entries in the loc_data text file are under 'loc_eng()'. So its best to group your waypoint texts under 'loc_eng()' as well.

Remember, its either 'loc_rus()' or 'loc_eng()', but not both.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on January 04, 2012, 12:39:47 PM

One final thing (actually the main thing):

Make sure your waypoint entries appear after the briefing and 'nop;' lines.

For example:

Quote

cs_main()
{
ext, add_misobj, brief, start, 4, txt_brief_shamonin, txt_mis_order;
nop;
ext, sel_waypoint, the_proposed_site, 0xff00a040, txt_ldm_text1, 0;
ext, sel_waypoint, village, 0xff00a040,txt_ldm_text2, 0;
}

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on January 08, 2012, 02:49:49 AM

Just a slight update. I'm still eagerly awaiting the finalized version of Shamoleon ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on January 08, 2012, 03:11:02 AM

The Hemission is coming Kyth just cool your Panzer III!Ah the impatience of youth! ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on January 16, 2012, 09:01:11 AM

This news is just in:

I'm still eagerly awaiting the finalized version of Shimoleon. ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on January 16, 2012, 02:06:24 PM

Kyth this is going to be the mission of the century !Patience!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on February 09, 2012, 10:41:36 PM

Is there any way to get dismounted infantry to hop aboard a tank and ride to a given destination similar to Achtung Panzer.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on February 10, 2012, 01:51:47 AM

Yes, using the T-34/85.

On top of a tank (outside it) is actually not a very good place to be, in a battle,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Estnische on February 10, 2012, 02:03:51 AM

Meeehh, it beats walking... :D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on February 10, 2012, 02:23:42 AM

I think I saw pics on the Avia/Sukhoi forum of infantry riding on the T34/85.Not sure if the mod ever came out?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on February 10, 2012, 04:02:54 AM

Quote from: frinik on February 10, 2012, 02:23:42 AM

I think I saw pics on the Avia/Sukhoi forum of infantry riding on the T34/85.Not sure if the mod ever came out?

It became available with SPM 1.5 Beta.

By the way, it seems that SPM 1.5 has been a Beta since forever? :o

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on February 10, 2012, 06:31:08 AM

I think the Alpha release was conditioned on the making of new missions to go along with the new vehicles and which never came to fruition.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on February 10, 2012, 06:43:32 AM

Quote from: frinik on February 10, 2012, 06:31:08 AM

I think the Alpha release was conditioned on the making of new missions to go along with the new vehicles and which never came to fruition.

Well I'd like to think my Pz 38(t) missions help a little. ;D

But overall it's not very likely to happen, it's quite a strict precondition,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on March 18, 2012, 05:31:58 PM

Hey Folks!
I was trying to get a new mission to play at night with flares going off so I was messing around in the "weather" section of the ME. As usual the instructions are less than vague but I managed to get the night scenario I was looking for (except for the darkness level). Anyway the mission plays out, flares go off as expected.

Is there any kind of tutorial on using the weather section? The darkness level in the ME is set at black but in game it's very much like a darker twilight, everything is still visible. I recall other night missions where it's very dark and the flares are actually useful.

Cheers!
H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on March 19, 2012, 03:27:07 AM

Quote from: hemisent on March 18, 2012, 05:31:58 PM

Is there any kind of tutorial on using the weather section? The darkness level in the ME is set at black but in game it's very much like a darker twilight, everything is still visible. I recall other night missions where it's very dark and the flares are actually useful.

There isn't any real tutorial dedicated to the weather settings, I guess the trail has to be blazed :)

Which night missions do you have in mind, with the darkness level?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on March 19, 2012, 01:25:14 PM

Hey cool stuff1I am going to try it! I really miss not having the option of nights with a full moon in the ME weather options...Or starry skies

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on March 19, 2012, 01:33:18 PM

Hemi re the night missions in the weather options you'll see light source options just click on the off for Main and underneath you have the Main Source Parameters those are the sliders for the source of light in the game.You can adjust the intensity and exposure of light to 0 and see the results. It's not difficult to get pitch dark nights if you try playing with the different weather parameters.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on March 19, 2012, 05:55:07 PM

MMMMM thanks Kyth but not terribly impressed by what they are offering.The one I have in mind is the one made by Zeewolf in his remake of the third Soviet mission in TvsT.A wonderful , huge full moon, beautifully rendered...

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: hemisent on March 19, 2012, 10:25:33 PM

Thanks guys
I will just have to muddle through. I will play with the sliders and see what happens. Is there a way to set the time of mission at a specific time? Say 0500 hrs and as the mission plays out it gets lighter as day breaks?

Anyway, thanks again.

H

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on November 07, 2012, 07:52:48 AM

Accidentally, I found a new AI commands, which doesn't has description in manual:
ai_stop, ai_leave, ai_commander, ai_snd
What these commands does? ??? ::)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 07, 2012, 11:51:53 AM

Uh Lockie in the Mission Editor manual you 'll find:

ai_stop = Stop

ai_leave = Leave vehicles

ai_snd = Search and destroy but it says this is not implemented in the ME.

ai_commander = Assign leader of division Leader code but it says not to use it

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on November 07, 2012, 11:54:14 AM

Quote from: frinik on November 07, 2012, 11:51:53 AM

Uh Lockie in the Mission Editor manual you 'll find:

ai_stop = Stop
ai_leave = Leave vehicles
ai_snd = Search and destroy but it says this is not implemented in the ME.
ai_commander = Assign leader of division Leader code but it says not to use it

Thank u! Can u send the manual to me by e-mail? I'd be pleased!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 07, 2012, 01:11:06 PM

Sure thing ! Still have the same email?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on November 07, 2012, 03:21:40 PM

Quote from: frinik on November 07, 2012, 01:11:06 PM

Sure thing ! Still have the same email?

Yes! :)
I think I should install eng version.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 08, 2012, 01:42:55 AM

Why????Is it more complete than the Russian one????

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on November 08, 2012, 11:46:36 AM

Quote from: frinik on November 08, 2012, 01:42:55 AM

Is it more complete than the Russian one????

I don't know, maybe :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on November 08, 2012, 11:59:42 AM

OK Lockie Care Package on the Way! Check your email.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on July 01, 2013, 10:45:19 AM

Just checked out a command "ai_stop" and I may say - it almost didn't work.
i.e.
if tank is under fire then ai becomes unpredictable (mostly it goes forward/back, thus can't shoot precisely)
code sample:

Code:

sc_ger_01()
{

	ext, ai_move, ger_tac_01, false, -1, 40;
	ext, ai_stop;
	ext, loop_tr, tr_sov_lv;
	ext, ai_move, tr_p_01, false, -1, 40;
}

if tank(in may case vw-82) moves at the normal conditions - no fire at all, then ai obeys to script "ai_stop"
code sample:

Code:

sc_btr_01()
{

	ext, ai_move, ger_tac_02, false, -1, 15;
	ext, ai_stop;
	ext, loop_tr, tr_sov_lv;
	ext, ai_move, ger_tac_01, false, -1, 15;
}

Here's a sample: http://www.4shared.com/rar/0x5_3wY2/000_check.html

Conclusion: no need to use command "ai_stop" at all, if a unit is under fire. Instead it use "wait_tr". Use command "ai_stop" only in some a VERY rare cases. Well, I can't give u a hint what types of these cases are :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on July 02, 2013, 02:12:46 AM

The tactical AI will take over whenever there's enemy in sight,

Could you let us know how to use the 'ai_loadscript' command?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on July 02, 2013, 07:07:41 AM

Quote from: Kyth on July 02, 2013, 02:12:46 AM

Could you let us know how to use the 'ai_loadscript' command?

I never used this command :( I may guess that this command is designed for the common case to avoid the same block code writing.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: fabianfred on July 05, 2013, 09:22:05 AM

I made this topic into a pdf file...download here..
http://www.4shared.com/office/X6-uT2n0/SFME.html

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on July 31, 2013, 08:47:49 PM

And here is a very interesting and non-documented sequence of the commands.
Task:
- force tank to go along the road to the contour `point_01`.
Here's a simple code, where first line is mode `move along road`, second - appointment contour `point_01`.

Code:

ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1;
ext, ai_move, point_01, false, -1, 15;

BUT this code doesn't work! AI will come to the contour, but not on the road.
To force him go exactly on the road, u MUST specify a command `line up`(column, line, free). Let it be `free`.
Finally:

Code:

ext, ai_form, 0;
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1;
ext, ai_move, point_01, false, -1, 15;

It's simple, but I was abt madness, coz I didn't understand why this stupid AI didn't want to go `along the road`??? ;D Now, I know how to do that :P

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: fabianfred on July 31, 2013, 09:34:04 PM

I had this same problem yesterday...how to get vehicles to follow the road and cross that bridge of yours ...(making as mission on your map)

I was using the column setting... I'll try yours now..

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on July 31, 2013, 11:03:17 PM

Quote from: fabianfred on July 31, 2013, 09:34:04 PM

I was using the column setting... I'll try yours now..

`Free`line up is a kinda universal formation.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on August 05, 2013, 06:29:46 PM

I started to play with a command `ai_leave`. If u type simply:

Quote

ai_leave;

then ONLY commander will leave a tank, but I can't figure out how to force all other crew members put them out of the tank.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on August 08, 2013, 05:59:29 PM

Today I'd like to share with u friends, a very interesting script!
As u know for some reasons a troops were removed from the tank T-34/85. Suppose, it happend after `UU mode` was released. Anyway, `T-34/85+troops` didn't work properly. So, I decided to fix it.
There are: a tank T-34/85+6 soldiers (desant).
A TASK:
1. pick up 6 soldiers on the armor
2. move to the point #1
3. drop out 6 soldiers
4. move to the point #2

In theory everything must works, but AI of the troops didn't want to come to the point #2 after drop out. After a couple of experiments, I forced only a commander (sergant) of the troops come to the #2, but it wasn't satisfied me. Then I decided to cheat AI :D
Instead 6 soldiers, I wrote down there were 7! It does: 5 members of crew plus 7 troopers of desant (one trooper - fake). And it worked :D
Here is a mission-test for everybody who interested to invent smth. new in the script. Re-d/l a new fix_SPM(NTA_1.6)_01.1.

Recommended installation:
- SPM 2.0
- SPM (NTA) 1.6 (http://www.4shared.com/file/ZIVLOVKc/spm__nta__1.html)
- FIX_SPM(NTA)1.6_01.1 (http://www.4shared.com/rar/D58i6fbM/fix_spm_nta_16__01.html)
- Desant_T-34-85 (http://www.4shared.com/rar/_JzBeSUi/Desant_T-34-85.html)

Add the next entry:
desant_t3485, desant_misn, 1, 0, desant_t3485.jpg, txt_cit_01, 30, txt_desant_misn, hist_map_teach, levels\levels\cm_users\desant_t3485.level;

to the file:
...\data\k42\loc_rus\levels\LEVELS\camp\user_camp.engcfg

PS
I'd recommend to have a look this mission in the editor, but of course u may play it as a usual one ;)
Don't forget to press a knob "to machines" to drop out a desant at the point #1.
(http://s5.postimg.org/y4hkd1yxf/01_d.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/y4hkd1yxf/)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: fabianfred on August 09, 2013, 06:25:08 AM

nice little mission ... and the smoke was OK...but could do with being more.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on August 09, 2013, 03:35:30 PM

Quote from: fabianfred on August 09, 2013, 06:25:08 AM

nice little mission ...

Thanks :)
I've made one trick in this mission. There are hidden tank rkka_mtann4(T-34/85 with 11 places), which is absent in the editor and a separate group of the soldiers (6 units - desant).
The trick does that tank and group works together as a whole unit!
It does that we can make a mission kinda `Saving Private Ryan`;)
For example, somewhere a platoon of infantry fight against german troops and they need a help badly! And a soviet command decided to send a group of tanks to save and pick up a very urgent person - general!(or just ordinary group from 6 soldiers). After, get back to the start point. If general survived (or at least one soldier) then mission completed :)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: fabianfred on August 10, 2013, 10:41:19 AM

How do we map a key to allow ascent and descent from vehicle?

and the Sherman in that mission has no tracks!!!

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on August 10, 2013, 05:59:34 PM

Quote from: fabianfred on August 10, 2013, 10:41:19 AM

How do we map a key to allow ascent and descent from vehicle?

There are commands:
ai_enter
ai_exit

Quote

and the Sherman in that mission has no tracks!!!

It's funny, coz Sherman should not `ve been there :)
Check out the line:
usr_tnk_02, rkka_mtann4, ger_p_05, -1, 2, sc_usr_t_3485d, 1, 1, 0.7, 0.6, 1.0, 0x2, rkka_11_guard, 0.0;

PS
PM me.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on August 23, 2013, 01:23:57 PM

In SF there is an old bug (hex flag), when u can't place properly a soviet artillery.
There are some hints, which have to put manually in the script.
i.e.
sov_min_01, rkka_mtbat_med, sov_pos_min_0, -1, 2, dummy, 1, 1, 0.8, 0.7, 1.0, 0x1, rkka_comp_1, 0.0;
0x1 - remove contour after fill up
0x2 - group in one contour
0x4 - unit in the trench
0x5 - remove contour after fill up, unit in the trench
Flag 0x5 is more preferable, coz unit thinks he stays in the trench, thus - don't move.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on August 23, 2013, 02:24:55 PM

Well, actually I've managed to fix this bug and now - nomore manual script editing :)
The error was in the "1", it must be "0".
i.e.
This is wrong entry:
rkka_lgun2,txt_med_lgun2_rkka,%SIDE_RUSSIAN%,txt_med_gr_aa_artillery_rkka,1,0,,,gunaa,;

This is right entry:
rkka_lgun2,txt_med_lgun2_rkka,%SIDE_RUSSIAN%,txt_med_gr_aa_artillery_rkka,0,0,,,gunaa,;

Now all soviet artillery is available for the feature in the editor - "remove contour after fill up". This fix will be included in the SPM (NTA) 1.7 version.
(http://s5.postimg.org/42ku7f9xv/gun.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/42ku7f9xv/)

PS
It took only five years to fix this bug ;D

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: fabianfred on August 24, 2013, 09:57:04 AM

One thing I was wondering about....
the minefields you can put on a map ...do they explode?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on August 24, 2013, 10:12:37 AM

Quote from: fabianfred on August 24, 2013, 09:57:04 AM

the minefields you can put on a map ...do they explode?

YEAP! But mostly a mines effects a tracks and nothing else, sometimes a gunsight.
I placed a minefield in the polygon `sherman_nt`. Here is a source files:
http://www.4shared.com/rar/0TT7RlUb/sherman_nt.html

Place folder `shermant_nt`:
...\data\k42\loc_rus\levels\envs\

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on August 24, 2013, 02:52:29 PM

Mines are not really effective right now. However you can tinker with their damage settings in the common res file and probably make them more lethal if required....

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: fabianfred on August 24, 2013, 10:36:37 PM

Quote from: frinik on August 24, 2013, 02:52:29 PM

Mines are not really effective right now. However you can tinker with their damage settings in the common res file and probably make them more lethal if required....

That would be good.... I tried them out....you have to place each mine in a spot...no area coverage...am I correct?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 25, 2013, 12:37:58 AM

Quote from: fabianfred on August 24, 2013, 10:36:37 PM

Quote from: frinik on August 24, 2013, 02:52:29 PM

Mines are not really effective right now. However you can tinker with their damage settings in the common res file and probably make them more lethal if required....

That would be good.... I tried them out....you have to place each mine in a spot...no area coverage...am I correct?

You could set up a fairly large closed contour, and 'plant' it with mines. A minefield, in other words,

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on August 25, 2013, 05:09:00 AM

Fabian fred, try the following open your common res folder with notepad and look for these 2 lines in the shells() paragraph:

AT_MINE,0,%SHELL_HE%,AT_MINE,500,1,0.2,0.1,0,1,1,0,5,1,0.1,9.81,0,0,0.1,0,0,0,0,expl_gndm*,expl_techm*,expl_buildm*,expl_water*,expl_human*,fly1,0,0,0,txt_shell_at_mine,he_expl_pat,rico_pat,piece_pat,0,1,1,1,1,0x60000000,0,1,-1,-1,-1;
AP_MINE,0,%SHELL_HE%,AP_MINE,300,1,0.2,0.1,0,1,1,0,0.6,0.3,0.1,9.81,0,0,0.1,0,0,0,0,expl_gndl*,expl_techl*,expl_buildl*,expl_water*,expl_human*,fly1,0,0,0,txt_shell_ap_mine,he_expl_pat,rico_pat,piece_pat,0,1,1,1,1,0x60000000,0,1,-1,-1,-1;

Just increase the 0.2 value I have highlighted in bold from 0.2 to 0.3 or even 0.4 and save and test to see whether the damage is greater... These values correspond to the penetration of a given projectile.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on August 25, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

Speaking of the ME it needs urgent attention it' a jumble of redundant units, sometimes duplications with some glaring lacks ( for example in the mix units there are no Stugs F or G with infantry whereas they were clearly intended as mobile artillery and infantry support)..Why a Jagdpanther with desert tan camo when none were ever deployed in any desert????? Why so many Tiger Trophy combos on the Soviet side when they were told to use captured Tigers until they broke down and simply dump them???? No Panzer IIIs even though the Soviets captured hundreds of them??? On the German side on the T34/76 as Beutepanzer, no T-26s, BTs, T-60s, T-70s, KVs even though they were captured in the 100s if not thousands????

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on August 25, 2013, 06:29:02 PM

Quote from: frinik on August 25, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

No Panzer IIIs even though the Soviets captured hundreds of them??? On the German side on the T34/76 as Beutepanzer, no T-26s, BTs, T-60s, T-70s, KVs even though they were captured in the 100s if not thousands????

As my point, it's boring to play for the same unit even if it was captured by enemy. As my point, it's more suitable for the tactics like Operation Star. A trophy unit for the tanksim - doesn't matter, imho.
But, if u've a good scenario for the trophy mission, then I'm ready to take a part ;)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: Kyth on August 26, 2013, 01:23:41 AM

Quote from: frinik on August 25, 2013, 06:12:39 PM

I agree with many of your points. Additionally, for mission designers it would also be good to have units with some of the tanks starting off as 'broken down' or immobilized, especially on the defensive.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on August 26, 2013, 11:36:51 AM

Quote from: Kyth on August 26, 2013, 01:23:41 AM

it would also be good to have units with some of the tanks starting off as 'broken down' or immobilized...

Yeah, that'd very cool to start the mission with a broken engine ;D ::) :D

BTW
There's already prepared mission, where Ferdinand had a broken engine. And a brigade from the service center `Porsche` replaced it under field conditions during a ~5 minutes ;)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on June 01, 2014, 03:13:31 PM

Here's how AI found the best place to hide. In spite there were trenches, he preferred a slope area.
(http://s5.postimg.org/xbxthuf4j/def_01.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xbxthuf4j/)

Some soldiers finally found trenches and rotated exactly on the North. It doesn't matter which angle was specified for them to rotate, they face are always to North, even if enemy from other direction.
(http://s5.postimg.org/rz4dpz1ub/def_02.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rz4dpz1ub/)

General has a very trusted bodyguards.
(http://s5.postimg.org/9m8dt5gr7/def_03.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9m8dt5gr7/)

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 01, 2014, 03:48:58 PM

All AI including vehicles and guns face North by default.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on June 01, 2014, 04:10:44 PM

Quote from: frinik on June 01, 2014, 03:48:58 PM

All AI including vehicles and guns face North by default.

Nope. Tanks AI is rotating depends on contour orientation.

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: frinik on June 01, 2014, 06:17:44 PM

AHHH? How do you give orientation to a contour?

Title: Re: ME question
Post by: lockie on June 01, 2014, 07:08:16 PM

Quote from: frinik on June 01, 2014, 06:17:44 PM

How do you give orientation to a contour?

It's easy. Place contour on the polygon, then orient camera/view into desired direction, then press "Ctr+C" and all arrows of the contour will be oriented according to the camera view.
If u want orient tank in the direction of the enemy attack, u've to give command "defence", then manually set up necessary angle of the contour orientation.
Usually, I make 4 contours with: 90, -90, 180, 0 degrees and place 4 tanks with command "defence"/"rotate". Then pick up more suitable contour.
Well, practically u may force the infantry to orient in the necessary direction, if u change the whole polygon orientation :)

PS
There's a very interesting trick. U give command to the infantry "defence" and note trench, then command ai_stop.
It does that AI infantry is in trench, but thinks he is on the empty place. Sometimes soldiers started crawling towards approaching tank. This look quite realistic and funny :)