Diary of a Campaign Maker (or How Hard Can It Be?)

[frinik]

I agree; Maleshkin's Winter mod looks really very good and nicely complements Lajcak's late autumn one.I hope he releases it because hisa work is goignt o change my mind about not being keen on winter mods....

[kapulA]

Wow, that mod does look excellent indeed! Could permission perhaps be attained from Graviteam to use some inf. models from AP: Kharkov 43 if non-appropriate winter infantry models are the main issue?
Also, the fire effects in the 3rd screen look much improved as well - is that also a mod feature or?
Looking forward to an eventual release!

[lockie]

non-appropriate winter infantry models are the main issue?

I hope that Aces will help us vs a soldier (winter camo)

Also, the fire effects in the 3rd screen look much improved as well - is that also a mod feature or?

As I remember, Maleshkin did some tweaks to the fire.

[kapulA]

I'm sure that Aces will do his best, but it's hard to make believable winter infantry, at least for the German side, if they're all wearing summer uniforms; you would need some parka or greatcoat models, I think. I guess reskinning the Soviets would be more feasible as you could have them all wearing telogreikas, which bore some resemblance to their summer uniforms. Porting the models from AP is a no-go then?

[Kyth]

There isn't a perfect solution, even with the best seasonal mod, uniform mod and custom-built map. Because they won't turn running water to ice  and you're still restricted to a 2km x 2km area. 

On the positive side, none of this prevents you from creating a (semi) historical, and more importantly, enjoyable, mission.

[Estnische]

Given that the historical events have the Russians establishing a bridgehead on the west bank and then losing it, with the limited details, semi-historical is the way to go.

Lockie is volunteering to make a map for me! 

I’m thinking something along these lines:

Mission 1 - German forces are dug in on the low ground of far (west) bank, in the village cemetery, supported by the Mk I Tigers of Carius. Their HQ is in the
village of Siivertsi, on the high ground i.e. the Russian objective.
The Russian armoured forces advance from east of the river and attempt to cross the river. The German
success will be to prevent or beat back the crossing.

Mission 2 - Having been denied at the first crossing, the Russians dig
in and establish artillery positions at the heights of the east bank.
They attempt another crossing and with the support of the artillery,
cross the river in force and over-run the German trenches to establish
a bridgehead on the low ground, taking over the original German trenches. The German success will be to prevent them from taking the HQ position at the village higher up.

Mission 3 - The Germans counter-attack the bridgehead. German success
will be to eliminate the Russians on the west bank.

Mission 4 - Having regained the west bank, the Germans cross the river
to roll-up the Russian east bank forces.

How hard can it be?

[whukid]

It'd be cool if you had victory conditions for both sides so the player could choose which side to play for.

[Estnische]

Whukid – you are right of course. I can get two to three missions happening for the Soviets.

Lockie is working on a map for ‘Siivertsi’, which should enhance the historical aspect. In the meantime, I’ll work on my mission building knowledge with the Peremoga map.

Now is the time would I needed some help with the Soviet armour, but I don’t have a lot of knowledge of their units. Here is where the SFK42 community shines. I asked Mistwalker in a PM and this was his response:

“46th (in 2nd Shock Army), 260th and 261st (in 42nd Army) Separate Guards Tank and 1902nd (in 42nd Army) Separate Self-propelled Artillery regiments and 3rd Guards Tank Corps (didn't participate in combat).

1902 regiment had SU-76.
46 regiment had KV. But I don't know about type. Definitely not ones we have in the game now (that's early model, they've all been lost by mid-43). Most likely KV-1S, but there's no KV-1S model in SF. You can try KV-85 from the latest update though (english version will be released today). Only 150 units were made and I know where half of those went, but no info about the other half, so... That's exactly the time for this tank.
260th regiment had some KV (probably KV-1S too) and some medium tanks.

Now about units, not mentioned in wikipedia. You probably need 2nd Shock Army.
In 2nd Shock Army: 30 Guards Tank Brigade, and 222 separate tank regiment. Here you need T-34-76 (late model) and T-70 in lesser numbers. Too early for T-34-85, too late for KV-1.

Also: 1439, 1495, 1811 self-propelled artillery regiments. 1439 - SU 122.
1495 and 1811 - most likely SU-76, less likely SU-85.

42nd Army had more tank units too if you need.

So to summarize you may use 5 types of vehicles - T-34-76, SU-122, T-70 in small numbers and maybe (if you consider it as possibility) KV-85 and SU-85. And the Winter mod of course. “

So, now I’m off to play with the Mission Editor. I’ll start with four Tigers on the west bank, and see if I can get the Soviet forces to attack them by using the river fords.

How hard can it be?

[frinik]

One piece of advice don't put too few Tigers against too many Soviet ones because the AI ain't too wise and the Tigers may be tempted to rush forward against overwhelming odds and get killed in a few minutes through side shots ect...Better put them in a cocnealed, static postion where thye cna take advantage of their more powerful Kwk36 and avoid serious damage. A ratio of 2 to 2.5 against one is the max you can expect your Tigers ot last long enough....

[whukid]

well.. unless you're the one playing the Tiger, of course

Then again, maybe Kyth can offer some insight; I believe one of his Panzer III missions involved waves upon waves of T-34's, T-60's, and KV-1's, of which drastically outnumbered the German armored force by atleast 3:1

[Kyth]

well.. unless you're the one playing the Tiger, of course

Then again, maybe Kyth can offer some insight; I believe one of his Panzer III missions involved waves upon waves of T-34's, T-60's, and KV-1's, of which drastically outnumbered the German armored force by atleast 3:1

It's all a matter of scripting; the 'Defend' command usually works quite well,

[frinik]

My own experience is that the "defence " mode works better than the " Ambush " one in protecting the AI against it's rash and reckless nature .However if you are faithfully trying to recreate a historical mission with absolute accuracy  - for example pitting 4 tanks against 40( a 10 to 1 ratio) - as may have been the case in a real battle and the outrome was still favourable to the defending side despite the odds then in SF you won't able to pull it off because it wille exceed the AI 's ability.Thus you may have to modify the size of the forces in presences to a more reasonable ratio...

[lockie]

My own experience is that the "defence " mode works better than the " Ambush "

Absolutely agree vs u! Mod "Ambush" much better than ordinary "defense", which is completely unpredictable.

[Rends]

My own experience is that the "defence " mode works better than the " Ambush "

Absolutely agree vs u! Mod "Ambush" much better than ordinary "defense", which is completely unpredictable.

For me it sounds that you disagree!?

[lockie]

For me it sounds that you disagree!?

Yes, I agree that defense mod is more preferable at some cases, but much better to use "ambush". It's kind of universal defense.

[Mistwalker]

One piece of advice don't put too few Tigers against too many Soviet ones because the AI ain't too wise and the Tigers may be tempted to rush forward against overwhelming odds and get killed in a few minutes through side shots ect...

I'd say that if you try to play without external view and without target indicator, as a real tanker should - you also may look not too wise from the side in some situations. 

But seriously, 4 Tigers in defence positions and on the other side of the river - it's the shooting gallery even for AI. A good commander should not send his tanks in attack in the situation like that, at least not without calling for heavy artillery and air support.

[frinik]

True enough Mistwalker however in SF:

A) the artillery is not terribly effective against tanks at least not as much as it should be.Also artillery and infantry take a heavy toll on the fps.

Yes I do play without external view but I keep the target markers when I play on a small screen or night missions.

RE the shooting gallery it depedns how many tanks you pit against the 4 Tigers and what type.If you respect the odds whe recreating many battles that took place in 1944/45 when the Germans were hugely outnumbered by the Soviet in very category then you will find the AI is not up to the taks.

Let's face it SF is a very good game but the AI needs improvements.Even in games which have good AI or better the human player has a definite advantage.

[Estnische]

Mistwalker makes a good point. But in February 1944 the Tigers were like the fire brigade, rushing to a point under attack by overwhelming forces. In this case the German Narva bridgehead was at risk of encirclement if the Soviets broke out at Siivertsi. There was no chance to back out of it and air support was unlikely without priority planning. As the American hot-rod saying goes, it was “run what ya brung”.

Lockie has been very patient with me, fixing my installation of SFK42 and educating me on generating polygons. He is also building a custom map so I can place objects where I need, to  make it close to the historical narratives. The SKF42 community comes to the rescue!

He also made some changes, so by the time we are finished, the weather will match this look:




Maybe, something like this? 



There are so many variables in map making, so Lockie has set me some homework to see how it is done on a completed map. When I have something constructive to add to the diary, I'll be pack

(Kyth - we need an Arnie smilie)

How hard can it be?

[frinik]

Estnische what could the Germans field against the Soviets in terms of armour?Mistwalker do you know how many SUs and tanks the Soviet side had available for their offensive?

[Estnische]

Well, here is where I put the 'semi', in semi-historic. My four missions are based on the Soviets establishing a bridgehead and then losing it. Carius does not mention tank-on-tank encounters in his actions at Siivertsi. Mostly he talks about supporting the Nordland infantry in eliminating Soviets in the trenches on the west side of the river AFTER they were established as bridgeheads. Mostly these were infantry actions supported by tanks and artillery. If you don't have the book, you can read more of the infantry side at the following links, where the focus is on the actions of Harald Nugiseks in winning a Ritterkreuz. Keep in mind that the German high command found it difficult to hand out the RK to foreigners:

Pt 1: http://www.eestileegion.com/?home/estonian-legion/estonian-legions-leaders/harald-nugiseks---the-silent-hero/the-bridgehead-of-vaasa---vepskuela---siiverts.html

Pt 2: http://www.eestileegion.com/?home/estonian-legion/estonian-legions-leaders/harald-nugiseks---the-silent-hero/forest-guards-house-on-fire.html

Pt 3: http://www.eestileegion.com/?home/estonian-legion/estonian-legions-leaders/harald-nugiseks---the-silent-hero/the-attack.html

So, the answer to your question is that a company of the 11th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nordland fought the action supported by a platoon of Carius' Tigers.