Effective range of various weapons and such talk

[Flashburn]

Ok so I am attempting to make minimod 2.0 here and have been looking into various effective ranges of certain suspect weapons I have run across in SABOW.  Top of my list of "why is that not shooting at me" is the BMP1's 73mm grom gun.  Many a time I have sat just outside of range and blown to hell zillions of bmp1's.  Thing is I was not all that far away. 

Effective range is (at least in US army land) 50 percent hits from average soldiers at a given range.  Sometimes its a moving target sometimes not.  Long story short default SABOW has the 73mm grom with an effective range of 800 meters.  That just seems a bit short to me.  I know the thing is rather close ranged as major weapons go but 800 meters is pretty damned close for an armored vic.  Mind you thats for a point target, not an area target.  Data of this thing is all over the place with some claiming insane things like 600 meters and others closer to 1400 meters.  Freaken 600 meters?   Really?  I know Im pretty damned sure I could hit a freaken thing the size of an AFV with an iron sighted akm with a canted front sight at that range, let alone a big gun. 

Ok rant concluded on that one.     So I have attempted to stay away from touching config files of weapons unless I made something new.  So for mini mod 2.0 I have changed it to 1050 meters.  I still think thats to damned close but I want to stay inline with over all SABOW.  Thoughts people?


Other thing is I am considering making an OV7 HE round for the RPG7.  Not sure if this is a good idea as infanty in game often do interesting things.  Thoughts?


I am playing around in my head is 12.7mm MG's.  Ahhhh soft spot for these kind of weapons.   It appears the dshka has a range of 1200 meters in SABOW....ya I'll buy that for a point target if its on a tripod with a T and E.  But .50 cal ball for m2 and such is 1000 meters and 700 for AP.  This I am sure is me over thinking things here.  Longest i have ever fired a .50cal MG is 1600 meters using a T and E off a HMMWV against a slow moving truck target (fake of course)  .  Two sensing bursts and I was all over it.  But of course thats the size of a freaken truck.  However without a T and E just free handing it, things get a bit difficult pretty fast.  I have watched many a soldier shoot all over the freaken place (except the target) when ranges get over 7 or 800 meters just free handing that bad boy.  Unless they have gotten ALOT of range time that is.  I guess I just don't get why one is 1200 and the other is 1000 for sabow.

[BaalCY117]

Hello...i think your quite right about the bmp1, I'm just sitting there in front of them at 500 meters and just stare each other like we are on failed date or something...Hmmm changing the range of the weapon don't know about that but sure why not and lets hope they will fire the damn thing or even pray the will fire the're freaking ATGM. RPG7 and HE I'm in still though this the thoughts of just one person . now about tripods and HMG don't know to give you any thought i was never an infantry man i was just a tank crew guy and i was trained and fired the G3 where we all still waiting the mod from you ....mg 3 coax gun and M68 gun 105 mm:P

[Flashburn]

I was a cavalry scout.......infantry yuck    Mod is coming along.  Work a bit on it nearly every day.  G3a3 is done along with a bunch of little stuff.  Expect the full deal  shortly after next SABOW patch but I may release a beta which will be primarly to test mini mod 2.0.  It would have g3a3, m1 helmet, energa rifle grenade, smoke rifle grenade, rgd2 smoke grenade, but not have m2hb or f5e.  I am finalizing basic mini mod 2.0 now which will allow me to make a mission the way I want.  New units like scouts teams for Iraq, SVD guys for cuba and iraq, visually different support personal for Iran, brdm2 for Iraq, obviously a few tweeked weapons (grom 73mm) and other little things I have forgotten right now. 

Right now I have dystopia v1.1 beta released over at simhq, but I want at least one more mission bundled in with mod berfore release.  Also playing with the idea of moding Soviet Afgan campaign.  Nothing really major, just folding the tank company into reinforced bmp/btr platoons.  Makes the most sence to support infantry and what I would have done going by my understanding of Soviet doctrine.  But if I do that I would leave one platoon as pure tanks to be able to manuver to the problem spots.  Not really sure if this would be popular which is why I have been sitting on this idea since Jan. 

Also while my m113a1 playable is stalled I hope to have it out sometime after all the things I have been messing with are done.  May have spread myself a little thin with things.   

[whukid]

gahhh. They're releasing a patch? damn

[Flashburn]

Ya but its stalled due to whatever is going on with May apos patch.  All ready been bitten twice with patches and my stuff.     March beta 1 was the worst, broke every thing.  Not going there again.  Took me a week and a half to fix everything.  Never could figure out why rifle grenades do not display ammo right any more. 

[Flashburn]

Geeez I forgot I started this post   

Anyone know if iran used Mavericks on F5e.......that is before they used them all up? 

[Flashburn]

I have been debating increasing a few weapons default range.  Most of the data Graviteam used for ranges came from effective range charts.  In US ARMY that is usually 50 percent 1 shot hits from average soldiers at a given range.  But maximum range is often many times larger.  For example....an RPG7 has usually a stated effective range of somewhere around 300 meters.  Its MAX range is 1000 meters when the thing self destructs.  So long as you engage outside of this range infantry will just sit there and take it.  I don't know about you, but I would not give a crap about what the stated max effective range is when getting shot up by tank fire.  Theres many weapons in SABOW where this is the case.  Infantry COULD engage you with low probabilty of a hit, but just sit there and die enmass because the cfg states max effective range. 

As of now the only weapon range I have changed in mini mod V1.9 is the bmp1 grom gun.  It will now engage out to 1050 meters.  About 200 more than default sabow.   I am going to leave it that way but increasing weapons range (where realistic) could change the difficulty to a bit harder.  I am thinking about a stand alone mod as an option for increased range.........with lower hit probability.  Pretty much just for default RPG7and all the recoilless rifles.  I have data on most of these and thinking of increasing engagement ranges out to where the data suggests 25% hit probabilty.  In most cases this is beyond where average AI infantry will even detect you unless your blowing stuff up.  So it should work out ok and provide a greater challenge to SABOW vets.

What do you guys think?   

[Flashburn]

OH my!  I found an oops in range of dragon atgm.  The version used by Iran was the 1000 meter ranged not the much later 1500 meter ranged version.   

Hmmmmm should I fix it for mod?   HMMMMMM

[Flashburn]

http://www.scribd.com/bawb-2/d/79021433-Revisiting-the-Rifle-Grenade

Interesting read on rifle grenades........

[Flashburn]

Anybody have good referances for an m29 mortar?  Better still blue prints or good line drawings?  If I have to I will generate them from photos.  But looking for the easier way.  Also any good referance on older m113 mortar carrier.  Probably slap that saladin turret smack on the m113a1 to make a Aussie beast fire support APC.  Who knows..........may make it playable......  The turret on my saladin is hollow and of someone close internal proposions of the real deal...
If only I could find good referance material for the inners of the thing.  Just a stupid fun vehicle.........   Go around in quick battle yelling Fosters.....its Aussie for beer..  Well BAD beer.   

[Dane49]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29937915/TM-9-1015-200-30-P-Depot-Maintenance-Manual-81mm

[Flashburn]

HA just saw this about m29......will help if I get to it.   

But now after info and effective everything on the British L5A1 76mm gun.  Actually need the ammo info not the gun.  Anyone have any info on its HESH and HE rounds?  Or even its canister round......that could be fun.   

[whukid]

Hey flashburn, any ETA on the patch?

[Flashburn]

Hey flashburn, any ETA on the patch?

Andrey says August..........they hope.  Ya I have been asking that one as well.  From the sounds of things they are bringing in a few more models.  And I have no idea what.......well a certain F5E.     MAybe a Russian PK on tripod?  Will be fun finding out.    

[whukid]

hopefully more playable tanks (cuts down on the workload quite a bit)

[Flashburn]

LOL........unlikely. 

Gravi will not touch a playable tank unless they can do it 100% right.  AND a playable tank like t62 and m60 tank took quite a while to do and get right.  If you know what your doing 2 weeks for an ai vehicle is do able.  How long the t62 or m60 took........eeek! 

But we can wish .  But I think the t62 model cost them like 20000 dollars or something.  So unless they had some model payed for that did not make the ship date..................or some rich guy threw money at them for their fav vehicle.  I would love to be wrong on all this.............

[whukid]

why would one vehicle cost so much money..?

[Flashburn]

Time and man hours. They also did research in the field as it where......so travel I bet as well.  Its ALOT of work.  If they do not have people on staff under salary it means out source.  People with the experience to deliver on time cost $$$$$$.  My best guesses.   

[grenvill]

50% hit probabilty at 800m looks right IMHO. Afaik, BMP-1 gun  is recoiless rifle from SPG-9.

[Flashburn]

50% hit probabilty at 800m looks right IMHO. Afaik, BMP-1 gun  is recoiless rifle from SPG-9.

Slight differences but yes.  800 meters is not vary far for a large weapon.  If memory serves.........in sabow config that was for HE rounds, not Heat rounds.  But every Army will measure this slightly different.  US critera was average soldiers firing at a moving target with a bmp1 (who knows where they got it).  Non moving target would be higher.  In default ai will not shoot at you unless your in the effective range.....even if getting hammered by fire.  But granted........bmp was suppose to support their infantry when dismounted.  You certainly did not need a weapon with massive range to do that.