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Author Topic: A total conversion of APOS to a vietnam mod HEAVY on the 11th ACR? Thoughts?  (Read 12624 times)
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Flashburn
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« on: May 27, 2012, 04:42:55 PM »

I have a vary embryo concept........it may go nowhere. 

But gauging interest in a total conversion mod of APOS to a historical Vietnam mod.  Would be VARY heavy on m113 ACAV.  This is a HUGE undertaking and would require a deticated team of people.  Not to mention a massive investment of time over the long haul.  There are many pieces missing in the editing department............no way to make maps........  Lack of sample/source models etc. etc..  But any idea worth persuing starts with baby steps.....  But this is just feeling things out. 

Would be fun to have ARN forces.
Would be fun to have 11th cav
Would be fun to let the Aussies in with their m113 with saladin turret
Would be fun to have the viet cong
Would be fun to have NVA

Comments?  Interest?


Little blurb about me.  19D Iraq vet.  My mother served in Vietnam as a Nurse in the Navy.  (Those 2 things influence interst in this concept for me).  Had my schooling for modeling/animation interupted by my service in Iraq.  Got a stupid injury (getting OLD Cheesy).............the US Veterans Adminitration is Satan incarnate.  They get their jollies by screwing over guys that have allready been thru enough. 
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Dane49
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2012, 05:38:06 PM »

Since your throwing concepts out there.I always thought it would be cool to have some American units in the mix in APOS.For playing quick battles and duking it out with the Red Army on the Ukranainian maps post WW2.
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USMC_GRUNT
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 07:49:56 PM »

Would Be great addition even thou does not seem much interest.
Am reading Nolan's search and destroy about 1/1 cav '68 '69 great
book. Army unit designation's make my head swim thou.. USMC so much
easier Wink.

Am retired 52 year old with way too much time on my hands.
If you decide to take on the project let me know will help all
I can.

Sorry about your trouble with VA.. When i used phoenix VA I could agree...Ann Arbor Michigan
VA has been outstanding for me...saved my life and always been treated excellent.
 
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Dane49
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 08:48:54 PM »

I have to agree not all VA Hospitals are the same,I spent 3 months last year in the VA Hospital in Tampa,Fla.The care was very good,I'm sure if I  had went to the local Hospital here in town instead,I probably wouldn't be alive right now.I'm ex-Army Infantry(1981-89).Spent most my tour at Ft.Benning ,Ga. and Ft.Sherman,Panama.Did a 3 week Winter warfare training exercise in Ft.Greely,Alaska.(50 below zero every day,got frostbite on all my finger tips Sad)and can imagine just how difficult it must have been for the soldiers on each side to try and survive in such unforgiving weather and combat,coupled with the no quarter attitude both sides displayed against each other,it must of been a true nightmare for the average soldier.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 09:07:10 PM by dane49 » Logged
Flashburn
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2012, 12:19:20 AM »

Ya, not all VA hospitals are the same........Seattle, WA = BAD.  American Lake next to Ft. Lewis = better.  The disability system is my largest beef.  Nightmare of silly.  Army said..ya your back seems to be messed up, well it was not like that a year before.  Va says your getting old (early 30's at the time) and magicly calls it degenerative arthritis.  Well whatever it is extremly painful.  Went to the local king tut display a couple weeks ago and after limping around the family made me get a wheel chair (that was a bash to the pride).   Years later on 3rd claim/appeal to those ******* as the pain gets worse.  I am not sure exactly what 10 percent is suppose equal on quality of life impact......but this is not a 10 percent issue.  On the other hand when I have seen the health care providers and I mention that 10 percent thing, I get the WTF look..  Angry......  enough of that however.


As far as the Mod concept is concerned.  If I go forward with this......... it is looking like SABOW is better suited do to.  But a fully modeled and playable m113a1 ACAV would be a blast to zip around in.  I mean heck, 1 .50 MG , 2 M60's ( or 1 m60 and one recoiless 106mm rifle) off the side.  Generally not buttoned up..........better situational awareness and can watch the caos in all its glory.  While still being able to order your crunchies around. Tongue
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Dane49
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2012, 12:44:18 PM »

Hi Flashburn,I'm curious.Are you allowed to import the maps from APOS into SABOW?I've never had an interest in SABOW because (1)Never had an interest in those conflicts-Iran vs Iraq, and Angola etc...(2)The game is more of an armoured sim than infantry.(3)After previewing some of the YOU TUBE videos about the game,I find the 3D maps in SABOW rather dull and uninteresting.Now,on the other hand.If the maps from APOS were to be incorporated into the game,along with a free camera view from all units plus a wider variety of nationalities and weapon systems to choose from,for quick battles and possibly campaign editing.I think I could find myself very interested in SABOW.But,as the game stands now,there really isn't anything there that holds an interest for me.APOS,so far is the only game that really does it for me.Hopefully,down the line. Graviteam with the APOS game will add a wider variety of unit options(Paratroopers,ski troops and other nationalties)and a wider variety of maps to maneuver on(Eastern Europe ,Northern and Centeral -West Russia)with an option for seasonal changes for these maps(Summer,winter Fall and Spring).Not being a modder myself Cry,I know this is a very tall order and not everyone shares my same interests,but I can still hope  Smiley
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 12:55:02 PM by dane49 » Logged
Capt Sam
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2012, 01:03:39 PM »

I would prefer that mods center more around Eastern Front WW2, basically what all the DLC addons are already, because there simply aren't enough Eastern Front WW2 games in the first place.  But I do believe the AP game engine would be quite good for a Vietnam mod, because the maps are so big and many of the fights are often less than a company size and tend to be "search and destroy" type of engagements.
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Dane49
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2012, 01:59:37 PM »

A Vietnam Mod would be interesting,though Company sized S&D OP's would probably all play out the same way.Hump the bush searching for Charlie till you step into some shit and get ambushed.Then fall back on a suitable LZ to evacuate your casualties and call in massive amounts of air and artillery assets to suppress the enemy until all your casualties are evacuated,then sweep the area for a body count.Unless the Cong or NVA Army had overwhehlming force on the ground,they would bug out(unass the AO) before the first arty support shoot impacted.Some of the  battalion sized Marine OP's along the DMZ in 67 would probably be cool or airmobile assaults around the central  RVN coast could be interesting also.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 02:57:42 PM by dane49 » Logged
Flashburn
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2012, 03:09:05 PM »

Hi Flashburn,I'm curious.Are you allowed to import the maps from APOS into SABOW?I've never had an interest in SABOW because (1)Never had an interest in those conflicts-Iran vs Iraq, and Angola etc...(2)The game is more of an armoured sim than infantry.(3)After previewing some of the YOU TUBE videos about the game,I find the 3D maps in SABOW rather dull and uninteresting.Now,on the other hand.If the maps from APOS were to be incorporated into the game,along with a free camera view from all units plus a wider variety of nationalities and weapon systems to choose from,for quick battles and possibly campaign editing.I think I could find myself very interested in SABOW.But,as the game stands now,there really isn't anything there that holds an interest for me.APOS,so far is the only game that really does it for me.Hopefully,down the line. Graviteam with the APOS game will add a wider variety of unit options(Paratroopers,ski troops and other nationalties)and a wider variety of maps to maneuver on(Eastern Europe ,Northern and Centeral -West Russia)with an option for seasonal changes for these maps(Summer,winter Fall and Spring).Not being a modder myself Cry,I know this is a very tall order and not everyone shares my same interests,but I can still hope  Smiley

APOs to SABOW map conversion.  It is possible, but I have no clue how.  It has been stated that Graviteam can do that conversion using there tools.  I totally agree that many of the maps are way to "flat".  My biggest beef is with susangerd (iran) map.  Graviteam did a map/google earth/photo study of the area.  I can tell you from experience that the area is not so flat as it appears on a map or google earth.  Most of the mild terrain elevations do not show up on a map.  Anyone remember the battle 73 easting during the 1st gulf (or 2nd if you prefer).  It occured because there was a mild elevation shift in the terrain.  Basicly lead elements hit a rise and low and behold there was a company of Iraqi tanks in defensive coil. But late 80's tech vs 70's tech was no match whats so ever. 
Oh and most Youtube videos on sabow are gawd awful.   Wink  Angola map has many good elevation changes.  Mardga (afgan) map actually does better as tank on tank map than a tank on infantry deal.   Susangerd is pretty bad in the middle, but the out skirts on it are quite good.  Im guess the middle of the thing got rushed. 

In the end everyone has their thing Tongue  But I bet in future when Gravi does another tank sim it will not be on flat ground.  What, noone cares about Khramshahr, the stalingrad of Iran.  Well thats what military history buffs and the Iranians call it.   Tongue  Both the ANGOLA campaign (angola/cuba VS South Africa/Unita) had quite a bit of tank on tank fighting.  The Bush war lasted for freaken ever and is pretty interesting.  In area of Susangerd in Iran one of the largest tank on tank battles since WW2 occured.  Freaken nigthmare WW1 and ww2 style warfare.  Yes, if Gravi had done another tank sim like K42 it probably sold better.  But I find SABOW SO refreshing in theater choices. 

On vietnam.......Gross misconception about figthing.  Yes alot of the middle of US involment was small unit stuff.  The end was anything but.  Full on battles between RVN and NVA.  Ok turned into a rout.....for RVN. BAd leadership.  But the tet offensive was massive.  No one has ever done much with Aussie or New Zealand forces either.  But for the most part Vietnam was a text book example of what not to do.  Way to many parrellels to current US conflicts.  I still don't know WTF I was doing in Iraq. Stupid, pointless, dumb war.  I would have perferred to go to Afganistan.  At least I would understand why I would have been there.  Freaken stupid retards starting multiple conflicts at the same time.  Why the hell where 30000 guys sent to Afganistan to oust the Taliban and kill that rat ****** and 100000 send to some stupid **** hole country that could not even maintain its roads or freaken collect garbage right?  I hate stupid politicians and dumb voters that elect them.  I degress.......again........i have.............issues........... Tongue

But I do think APOS mod could be intersting.........leaning towards SABOW now.  But on the list of thing I want to do is some sort of way to have a 3rd person view on platoon/company commanders in SABOW.  So you can more easily boss around your infantry with more than just a map view but with ability to jump into a tank or apc to lead the battle from the front.  You know, where a good soldier belongs.  Finish the Hybrid tank sim/tactic game Gravi started. 
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Redmarkus4
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2012, 05:02:04 PM »

+1 on the Iraq rant Smiley

For me the issue with Iran v Iraq etc. isn't whether the battles were big and complex or not, it's simply that I can't put myself in the position of either side.

When I play APOS or CMBN, I think of my relatives who were either there or affected by those events and I think, "My God, how did Uncle John cope?"  I can't do that with Angola or I vs. I.
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Flashburn
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2012, 11:19:46 PM »

I hear you on the empathy thing.  Cant seem to go one generation without someone in my family being in one war or another.  Yes, people relate to context on different levels.  A good point for sure. 
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Flashburn
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« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2012, 02:39:26 AM »

I forgot about this youtube promo vid I did for operation Safari (my 1st legit campaign) http://www.youtube.com/embed/YG9xXv2kpi0

Ok its sabow.....forgive me here, but picture and m113 acav with some sort of improved interface for interaction with infantry and other units.  I know this started as a concept for APOS....I know!  But it is still just a concept and worth exploring posibilities.  I should point out as far as tank sim land is concerned the memorys of playing the north africa campaign of Panzer Elite still reside in me. 

is it bad that I want my cake and to eat it too.  Playable vehicle/s with the command aspect of APOS on small and medium scales.  Hell i liked old school Battle zone to.  Well not the old old school battle zone...........well no i like that too.   Tongue
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Dane49
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« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2012, 05:29:28 AM »

Being ex infantry,I always enjoy the infantry aspect of APOS.I think I would get claustraphobic having to command my units from a tank all game LOL.APOS is the 1st RTS game I've ever played,for some reason I never liked the small map areas of games like Theatre of war or Combat mission.I started playing those soon after APOS and decided that APOS is much better suited to my tastes and haven't looked back at those 2 games.This game is what I had always hoped the board game Squad Leader could be(certainly easier to learn).During my HS years a friend and I would create all sorts of post WW2 scenarios with Squad Leader, pitting the Soviets against the Americans(I grew up during the Cold War and Communist Russia was considered our arch enemy).We eventually decided we wanted something a little more modern to add to our tactical Cold war scenarios and started merging the two board games Panzer Leader and Arab Israeli Wars together to satisfy our Cold War interests.We made a huge East European map(40x60 inches)Those little geometric maps in the game didn't cut it,we wanted all out "Blitz" maneuver warfare(With Paratroops and Airmobile assaults included).If I recall correctly some of the units were platoon sized elements of T-62's,M-60's,T-55's,M-48's,BMP's,M-113's and Sagger and TOW missiles(That occupied our Cold War fantasies for a whole Summer).We even made a map for the American invasion of Southern China,with the Soviet units substituting for the Chinese.Of course in our scenarios the Americans almost always won   Grin,the object for the Communist player was to inflict as much damage as possible on the Americans before eventual defeat at the hands of the victorious Americans LOL.With that in mind I think I would love to see something similiar imported into the APOS engine or a hybrid of the 2 games SABOW and APOS.I think it would be an interesting retro gaming excursion back to my Cold War youth.
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Flashburn
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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2012, 06:41:59 AM »

Well being ex cavalry  Wink............  Which means really confussed as to WTF you are depending on the day. Wait im in a bradley...Huh?  Wtf....now Im clearing rooms?  HAYYYY im really confussed..........im sitting in a hole on an LP/OP.  Wait now im calling in mortars?  WTF am I?Huh?Huh??? Tongue
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Redmarkus4
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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2012, 03:15:49 PM »

Nice video Flash.  But I still can't get into it without T34s and Mark IVs... 

Also I agree with the command perspective Dane49 was talking about and the whole infantry thing - I was a 1980s rifle company officer (it was all drug enforcement ops and a bit of counter insurgency during my time) and I still work in security and I do Airsoft weekends about 12 times a year to keep myself active. 

I need to see grunts getting stuck in and I need the whole combined arms thing going on, but it's got to be WW2 themed to keep me interested.
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Capt Sam
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2012, 03:55:03 PM »

*edited for rudeness.

Is even making such a mod even possible?

I presume someone has read the mod guide and actually understands it??
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 07:17:08 PM by Capt Sam » Logged
Flashburn
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 06:03:48 AM »

Is it possible......yes, totally.  Only issue major issues which remain question marks are polygons (aka maps modified or custom) AND animations for soldier characters/rigging them within apos/sabow engine.

And what where your rude comments did you make.  lol.

What is currently known own how to do...and what I have made so far.

weapon models like rifles and grenade.  (made a g3a3 rifle for sabow ingame and 3 various grenade models (2 rifle greandes and 1 smoke grenade all in game)
Low complex stuff M2hb on tripod and its movement broken up models.  in game not complete yet...almost. 
Complex stuff like tanks and apcs is just a matter of time when I have it available.  M113 model i have been working on is vary close to done.
Aircraft.....I have an f5e model complete and lods done/textured......last bit is propper rigging for SABOW (same as apos on this one.)
Addins for soldiers.......m1 style US steel pot helmet.......done in game sabow. 
campaigns and missions.......Have now made 5 legit campaign for sabow (exactly the same as how it is done in apos) and 1 modified graviteam campaign. 

Well I thought of doing this mod (if it happens) for APOS I am currently leaning towards SABOW.  But the thing is it could be done with either game with vary small tweeks to certain things.  SABOW already has a huge part of weapons done (it uses a modified APOS config.....in fact if a modder wanted you could bring in each games models into the other with little effort.  A Russian modder brought in t34 from APOS into SABOW already).  But SABOW contains most of the correct weapons of NVA of the era.......ak47/akm, b10, b11, the 82mm mortar that sabow apos share, the zis3 that apos shares....amoung many others.  See why this project is so appealing?  What shocks me is no one in west at least seems to realize how easy bringing into sabow many of apos models to do a ww2 tank sim in sabow.  You require new models for playable tanks but all the others would work just fine. 

But at some point I bet Graviteam will do another ww2 tank sim game.  They could do it relativly quickly as they would not have to start from scratch.  Or even an addon mod for cost to APOS to have playable units.  This makes the most sense.   But what they are plannning in future is anyones guess.  APOS is vary good and they are working on so many neat things.   Grin  but a good modder can try and do things that would be risky for a game company to attempt.  How do you think the ww2 fps games started?  mods.  Wolfenstine does not count, lol. 

Honestly I did consider doing a north africa mod for either apos or sabow.  Just would be much faster to use what sabow has while attempting to come up with a hybrid command system for SABOW that has some of the features of APOS.  I like sims, I like tactical thinking games.  I want both in one ..........that works.  That is my over all goal.   Tongue

I build my portfolio further and maybe I find a good job along the way making something I love by making enough waves in the sim/tactical game mod markets.  Wow combine my love of history, with being a former soldier and combat vet, with my love of modeling and messing with game engines......ya that would make me vary happy.   Tongue
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