Aces' SdKfz 251/2 mortar carrier WIP

[whukid]

Wow, that's awesome!

[Aces]

Hi mate,

But flawed if it doesn't work

Cheers

Aces

[frinik]

That wopuld be unforttunate because your vehicle is really looking swell!!Re the vehicle not firing you may have to add something in the anims folder for thrcrew to load and fire the mortar.

[Aces]

Thanks mate,

I have added anims and the crew go througth the paces but no firing, no sound, no smoke and no explosion ??!!.

Oh, BTW. where the rate of fire, rounds per minute setting set?.

Cheers

Aces

[frinik]

It's in the common res file:

GRW36,0,%WEAP_MORTAR%,56,50,0.2,0.25,0.1,0.1,1,0,1,1,1,0,shot_lmort,reload1,,drop1,1,txt_gun_grw36,gun_shot_pat,,GRW36;
GRW34,%FL_ART_FIRE%,%WEAP_MORTAR%,56,81,0.2,0.25,0.1,0.1,1,0,2,1,1,0,shot_mmort,reload1,,drop1,1,txt_gun_grw34,gun_shot_pat,,GRW34;

You may have to add a couple of lines in the weapons and shells paragraph of the tech_cfg file for the sdkfz251.Otherwise your changes won't be reflected .MY vguess is that you may to have to amend by adding the following entries:

something like that:

//îðóæèå
   weapons()
   {
      //íàçâàíèå, ÷àíê âûëåòà, ÷àíê îòêàòà, áàøíÿ èç êîòîðîé ñòðåëÿþò, ðàáî÷åå ìåñòî çàðÿæàþùåãî
      GRW34, s_gun, db_gun, head1, wp_loader;
   }

   //áîåêîìïëåêò
   shells()
   {
      //èìÿ ñíàðÿäà, êîëè÷åñòâî
                            MHE_82, 30;                           
   }

[Aces]

Hi mate,

Thanks for the info. Which bit of the line in the common res for the grw34 line relates to the reload time?. I have an explanation of the meaning of each line and didn't see any reference to reload time?.

I already have the weapons and shells lines in the vehicle's tech engcfg file and also the head enteries, much as you have them in your example. The "shells" section is for the shell name in the common res and 66 rounds whilst the weapons entry is as per your example.
I've checked the linking and it is the same as the static mortar model.

BTW, The wheel problem is bizare!, I know what's happening with the wheels/tracks problem but not why. Basically the wheels aren't centred to the axels (all part of the db_hull object) in-game although they are definitely centred both in 3D editor program and the objects editor. So it cannot be a model problem can it?.

If this isn't the case then it must be a config issue but, looking at the relevant entries in the vehicle's engcfg file, they are exactly the same parameters as for the other 251 variants!. I did center the pivots and align them to the world and the wheels rotate correctly and the vehicle moves in the correct direction just fine. As I've based the 251/2 on my earlier 251/1 work then I cannot see why the wheels positioning in-game has changed. So rather than (o) with "( )" representing the wheel and "o" the axel it actually looks something like (although a bit exagerated) the the example below.

   o
( )
   
Regards

Aces

Edit: Actually I just had a thought as to why the wheels might be out of alignment with the axels that I can check this evening. Maybe it is to do with pivots positioning, local co-ordinates Vs world co-ordinates in Max?. Although how these might have got changed I don't know.

I also found a nice real mortar firing sound that I'm going to use, I wanted the typical "tonk" or "farting" noise that mortars make rather than that the sound of a gun firing. I'll probably not use the existing loading sound as it is really for a tank shell etc. and not really appropriate. I might also change the shell explosion sound to that of a mortar shell. That's if I get the darned thing to fire

Also noted some strange AI behaviour in my test mission. If I use a non-vehicle-mounted mortar they will fire at an enemy tank for example quite happily until they are wiped out by return fire. With the new vehicle, maybe because it is an open-top APC, their first instinct is to "run away" or reverse like crazy and then go through the motions of loading a round. Is this because the OT-APC designation makes them behave this way? or is it something else?. I tried changing it to SPG or mort but neither really made any difference.

[frinik]

Aces the reload time is the 9th number in the line starting from the left.I have put the values in bold for you to see.

GRW36,0,%WEAP_MORTAR%,56,50,0.2,0.25,0.1,0.1,1,0,1,1,1,0,shot_lmort,reload1,,drop1,1,txt_gun_grw36,gun_shot_pat,,GRW36;
GRW34,%FL_ART_FIRE%,%WEAP_MORTAR%,56,81,0.2,0.25,0.1,0.1,1,0,2,1,1,0,shot_mmort,reload1,,drop1,1,txt_gun_grw34,gun_shot_pat,,GRW34;

Re the APCs behaviour it's probably the coding ....

[Aces]

Thanks mate,

Does that mean it takes 2 second to reload the GRW34? in which case it has a 30 rounds per minute rate of fire in which case the 15-25 rounds per minute figure I have researched would translate as a 4 second reload time for 15 RPM or maybe I'll split the difference and go for 3 seconds and 20 RPM.

Regarding the APC AI I would have thought that that could be changeable by making the vehicle behave like another unit type in which case I've only found two setting where this might be applicable in the vehicle's engcfg eg. "OT APC", "OT MORT", "OT SPG" etc. and in the common res file.

The 251/10 doesn't behave the same way and that's also clasified as "OT APC". it will slog it out with any enemy, I rewuire the mortar to behave the same way more or less. If a mortar crew exposed and out in the open doesn't run away then neither should there bretheren mounted in a 251 with some armoured protection.

Thanks and regards

Aces

[frinik]

I'll have to check but it may have to do with the fact that in the Mission Editor you can use the GRW34 for artillery strikes in mission making whereas the GRW36 is not available.

[Aces]

Ah, that might well explain it, it would make perfect sense thanks,

There must be some classification somewhere as to  how certain "types" of units behave AI-wise. I thought that the "OT APC" or whatever setting might be it but it would appear not to be else the 251/10 would behave the same way. Does a weapon have a minimum range as well as a maximum? I found the maximum range parameter for the grw34 just fine but wondered if there might be a minimum range parameter, there should be one as the mortar (or gun) has a minimum elevation and thus a minimum range. Maybe it won't open fire because the enemy are too close and it is reversing to open up the range, just a thought. The GRW34 had a minimum range of 60m in real life.

I just noticed why I didn't spot the relod time as this is what I've been using on the sukhoi forum:

-> Common_res.engcfg

weapons () - Weapons
1 Title
2 Flags
Type 3
4 Length of the barrel, cal
5 Caliber, mm
6 Coefficient. impact
Rollback 7, m
8 Time rollback
9 Time overrun with
10 Number of charges in the cassette
11 Recharge time a projectile with
12 Time change of the cassette with the
13 Dependence on the experience of charging
14 Number of smoke when fired
15 The quantity of dust lifted
Sound 16 shot
Sound loader 17
19 Audio cassette change
20 Sound drop-down sleeves
21 Number of shots in the queue for the AI
22 Textual name
23 shot pattern
The geometry of the arms 24 (only worn)
25 Marker gun

----

11. Recharge time a projectile with

32. Effective range, m  is clear enough but that's the maximum range.

I guess that "12 Time change of the cassette with the" is the time taken to change amunition types? and that "13 Dependence on the experience of charging" is the effect of crew experience on the reload time?.

I only have one suitable mission to test with and maybe as it was written with a 251/1 in mind maybe the scripting is wrong it uses a "dummy" script, maybe this should be an artillery fire script I don't know anything about such things. What I'd like is a mission with a few "soft" enemy targets  that don't fire back or maybe a village or other geographical feature as a target and a german artillery piece within 2 km or so range, that I could swap in the mission editor for the 251/2 with a suitable script to artillery fire on the enemy target that would help.

God I hate scripting!, texturing great, modelling very intersting but scripting is, IMHO, bad enough at the best of times even harder when it is in another language!.


--

[frinik]

This is Russenglish at its best . Yes your guesses are correct.You really have to read between the lines as the translations are really more a matter of interpretation

A test mission as you describe I could do easily.I could put a Lefh18 on the map and just make an artiellry strike script on designated soft targets( trucks or artillery/AT positions). I'll work on it....

[Aces]

Thanks mate, that would be great, it'd really help me to test the thing out.

I guess that this would be an excellent potential use for the 251/2. Sculking in some ravine or other cover and laying down some artillery support and then maybe moving to a new location as required. Should make for some potentially interesting mission possibilities.


Cheers and thanks again for all your assistance.

Aces

[Aces]

Hi chaps,

Sadly, no further progress to report. I spent yet another frustrating evening trying to solve the wheels/tracks problem and also the darned thing still doesn't fire. I'm hoping that I can resolve these issues over the coming weekend but I'm getting quite frustrated and tired so, if not, I'll set it aside for the time being and come back to it when I have further ideas. Maybe Frinik's mission will help iron the firing problem out but the wheels issue is simply beyond me. Everything in MAX looks good, everything in the editor looks good and the vehicle's tech.engcfg and the common res file looks good, I've been through them all time and again,  but still the wheels don't align correctly to the axels. I re-checked  and re-did all the pivots etc. and they were fine so clean out of ideas. Even if I get the thing to fire, I cannot release it with the wheels problem.

I wish I could find a game that would take my mind of things, I fired up Iron Front last night but got fed up after about ten minutes and returned to the problems in hand. I simply cannot get interested in gaming any more.

Cheers and regards

Aces

[frinik]

Started working on a test mission but it`s turning out to be more complicated than I anticipated.Mostly because artillery and AT guns are not playable. You can`t write an artillery strike assigned to a particular artillery gun because of that. I am trying to modify the script but I think I`ll have to limit the targets to one zone mostly because the AI artillery crews cannot target several positions in succession.Still, I am not giving up simpoly limiting my ambition to something you can actually use to test your mobile mortar.

[Aces]

Brilliant thanks mate, sorry it is bieng a bit problematical.

Cheers

Aces

[frinik]

It's not really problematic it's due to the fact that unfortunately the guns(AT/Artillery/AA) are not playable thus it complicates a bit making test missions .Not to owrry I'll find a solution!

Cheers!

[frinik]

 Ok I have done a test misison which I tested.Basically I placed a German 105 mm gun on aslope on the Izum map and 4 »Sov trucks with infantry on the opposite slope 500 metres away.Since neither are playable to observe the action I have put the player in a SKFZ 232 just behind the 105 gun.Thus you can safely observe the action and if need be intervene( I had to MG some of the infantry that was sniping at the gun crew killing some.The survivors lobbed 16 shells and destroyed 2 trucks and 25 infantry.

All you need to do is go into the ME open the mission called with high originality: Acestest2( the first one flopped).You can then swap the 105 mm for your SKFZ251/2 and observe the experiment.It`s very basic but should serve your needs...It`s in datapack format so all you need to do is simply unpack it using the editor _mission of your ME  once I email it to you.

[Aces]

That's great mate, thank you veyr much. I'll report back as soon as I've tried it out. This will be so useful to help test thing out.

Cheers

Leigh (Aces)

[frinik]

Aces you 'll have to PM me your email address!

[Aces]

Thanks mate, pm sent.

Cheers

Aces