Strange AI pathfinding - a solution.

[Kyth]

Hello!

If you've ever used the Panzer III in missions, or in the 'Fridericus' campaign, you may be aware of some dim-witted pathfinding by the AI, usually happening at a very dangerous moment!
Here's a typical example, and you can just imagine the conversation:


"Ahead, Sulu! Warp Factor one!"


"What in the ...?"
"Repulsor beams, Captain! We're being deflected!"

As it turns out, the culprit here is an innocent-looking line in the tech_cfg file:
trace_map   =   3;
The intention, I think, is to prevent lightly armored or wheeled vehicles from colliding with AT obstacles and flipping over - however, medium and heavy tanks should be able to power on ahead and crunch through them!
So, you will want to comment out the trace_map line, like this:
//trace_map   =   3;

(By the way, there are some other 'crazy' vehicles like the Pz II, BT-5, Pz 38(t)...)

Here's an example of a modified tech_cfg file , which I prepared earlier 
http://www.4shared.com/file/QOPd-0Cj/PathfindingMod.html
which should at least cure some of the grief with the Pz III.

Happy crunching! 

[Rends]

Good finding! What i noticed too is that if you increase the division skill level AI behave much more realistic than if you let it to the 20 percent default entry. Try 60 percent (or hight) and you see a noticable better AI behavior.

[Kyth]

Hi Rends, glad to see you back!

Thanks for the tip, 

[frinik]

Hi Rends! Are you talking about the experience level slider in the ME when you create a new mission or something else????BTW is there are way to make the AI fire less accurate like there is in TvsT for example. I had many occasions of the AI taking me out from 1500 or more metres although they were T34/&6 with terrible optics and guns that could hardly shoot anything at that range. I find the AI way to good they rarely seem to miss.This is a feature which ruins a little bit the realism...

[Rends]

Hi Rends! Are you talking about the experience level slider in the ME when you create a new mission or something else????BTW is there are way to make the AI fire less accurate like there is in TvsT for example. I had many occasions of the AI taking me out from 1500 or more metres although they were T34/&6 with terrible optics and guns that could hardly shoot anything at that range. I find the AI way to good they rarely seem to miss.This is a feature which ruins a little bit the realism...

Yes i´m talking about the experience slider in the ME. Try it out and you will notice the difference in game.
If you to prevent AI shooting from any distance than make an ambush script and set the distance there but then AI won´t leave the position.

[frinik]

Yes i´m talking about the experience slider in the ME. Try it out and you will notice the difference in game.
If you to prevent AI shooting from any distance than make an ambush script and set the distance there but then AI won´t leave the position.

That's what I do I have set to max all SF games as I figured it probably impacted the behaviour and shooting accuracy of the AI.However whether the slider is off or all the way up it does not seem to have an impact on their shooting accuracy. AI  is very unpredictable in SF sometimes it seems to be really cunning, sneaking up on you or flanking you and at other times they stand idly by while a battle is raging just feet away.A list of peeves:

- You cannot make the AI turn their headlights off despite the fact that it makes then easy targets during battles at night.There's no command key incorportated and the "Do as I do" is ineffective at least for that.

-  AI-manned vehciles/tanks are prone to driving or plunging straight into rivers or lakes. I remember more than once losing a wingman who would stupidly race straight into a river ( with the intention of crossing it and taking on the enemy) or ravine leaving you vulnerable to flanking attacks.

- AI tanks are prone to rashly surge forward - no matter the odds - and get shot to pieces by an overwhelming force of opposing armour. Which why I avoid using the Panzerjaeger or the Marder for example as instead of staying in a well concealed position or well beyond reach of the enemy they will stupidly move out of cover and attack getting  zapped quickly and I might add uselessly.

- When you leave the AI in charge of calling the targets there's little sense of priorization. The AI commander will call or focus on enemy infantry and neglect enemy armour which poses a more serious threat.The result is your tank gets picked off fairly quickly.

- Lunatic behaviour: sometimes AI tanks wander off the battlefield and go on a short trip and stop by somewhere( on a crest, in a ravine ) out of range and just stay idle even though they're undamaged and you desperately need them by your side.

-  Inconsistent behaviour; I have seen many examples of AI crews abandoning their vehicle because of secondary damage( sights or tracks) which reduces but does not  entirely impede their offensive or defensive abilites.At other time the AI will not abandon their vehicle despite more serious damage.There's flaw in the programming somewhere which needs to be adjusted to a better balance is truck and the AI will not leave their evhicle unless serious damage( gun disabled, engine on fire, too many crew members incapacitated or a series of 4 or more collective secondary damages:  broken sights & track, one crew member killed, engine/ transmission damaged for example.

Compared to TvsT  for example the AI is much better in SF but it can be improved and based on multiple reviews of Achtung Panzer./Kharvov Front Raods the rts made by Graviteam there's definitely hope that Graviteam's next tanksim will have a much improved AI. Apparently the AI and physics had already been improved in Fall Blau which was meant to be a sequel to SF and regretfully never relased by the Russian publisher back in Summer 2009( I wonder what they are going to do with it?)

[Rends]

for your AI river and lake driving in problem try to add forbidden zones. It works well most times and AI use the bridges well if not under attack.

About the headlight problem. So far i know AI turns headlamps off if under attack.

What i would like to know is what does the options function do next to the formation button in ME? Is this an alternative behavior setting?

[frinik]

Yes they turn them off and right after you stop shooting at them they"ll them back on....

Finally I forgot; tanks that try to crawl on top on another tank, disabled or not, and will either flip over or will flip nthe other friendly tank.Or they will repeatedly try to force their way ramming a tank that stands in their way rather than skirt around it!

Or your wingmen pushing you around when you're aiming at a target or under fitre and getting you shot and killed!

That being said it still is a great game despite it's bugs and flaws...

Bitching over

Rends I looked for that Options button couldn't find it???

[Kyth]

What i would like to know is what does the options function do next to the formation button in ME? Is this an alternative behavior setting?

Rends,

Where's the options function?

[Rends]

What i would like to know is what does the options function do next to the formation button in ME? Is this an alternative behavior setting?

Rends,

Where's the options function?

Check image. You find "reset parameters" in the lower right corner.


I guess you can only edit it in the "Mode of movement"

[Kyth]

Hi Rends,

It's something like an 'On/Off' flag.

For example, the movement path for a truck: "Follow the road until the junction, then take a shortcut across the open field to the nearest house".

In the movement script, you need to set "Among the road" (to turn it on) at the beginning, then re-set "Among the road" (to turn it off) after the junction waypoint.

If it's a tank or halftrack, the other options to fire or hide could also be useful. For instance, if you want them to close the distance before blasting away. I haven't used those options; the map is just too small to make it relevant,

Hope this helps, 

[Rends]

Kyth,
 i try to understand what you are saying but how do i set up the junction waypoint?

[Kyth]

Hi,

The 'waypoints' are the usual closed contours, to tell the AI where to go.

For example,

ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x1; (Turn on "Along the road")
ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x4; (Turn on "Imperceptible")
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_001, false, -1, 15; (Waypoints 1 to 6)
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_002, false, -1, 15;  "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_003, false, -1, 15;  "   
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_004, false, -1, 15;  "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_005, false, -1, 15;  "
ext, ai_move, GMoves03_006, false, -1, 15;  "
ext, ai_setstate, 0x4, 0; (Turn off "Imperceptible")   
ext, ai_rotate, -90; (90 degree turn)

[Rends]

Hm, but then what is the difference to make a regular movement to contour "a" and then switch to attack/defence contour "b" or something else?

[Kyth]

I haven't seen a difference, comparing "regular" vs "attack" mode.
Could it be a subtle change of emphasis in the AI, the relative priority given to fire or movement ?
Or maybe "regular" and "attack" are one and the same?
Can't really say,

[lockie]

I haven't seen a difference, comparing "regular" vs "attack" mode.

As my point, "attack mode" means that tank will hunt for the other aims on his way. "regular" means less aggressive behavior.