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Author Topic: Beginning work on a SFK42 Campaign/Mission Editor.  (Read 29865 times)
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frinik
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« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2012, 11:30:55 AM »

Minimi66, I am trying to fathom - in laymen's terms - what you are trying to achieve? The Campaign and Mission Editor you are working on would achieve what compared to the Mission Editor that we currently have? Make mission-making easier based on pre defined contours, layers etc??? I am not sure I understand and perhaps others as well???
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lockie
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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2012, 12:42:36 PM »

minimi66, I'd recommend u to make a very easy mission, but only by yourself. With all details and descriptions, to be sure that u have a knowledge how it should be Wink
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Kyth
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« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2012, 02:29:33 PM »

Minimi66, I am trying to fathom - in laymen's terms - what you are trying to achieve? The Campaign and Mission Editor you are working on would achieve what compared to the Mission Editor that we currently have? Make mission-making easier based on pre defined contours, layers etc??? I am not sure I understand and perhaps others as well???

I assume he's trying to come up with a user-friendly tool that will add everything missing in the current Mission Editor, for example the Historical text, Mission Name, Mission Briefing, Briefing Map, and In-game text and messages.

Later on, perhaps, there'll be a mission-generator in the works.

A worthy goal, since most people appear to be stumped by the current Mission Editor.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 02:32:36 PM by Kyth » Logged

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lockie
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« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2012, 02:37:17 PM »

user-friendly tool that will add everything missing in the current Mission Editor, for example the Historical text, Mission Name, Mission Briefing, Briefing Map, and In-game text and messages.
That would be nice!
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minimi66
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« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2012, 09:38:21 AM »

Hi fellas,

Sorry i didn't reply last night, was out getting into the Xmas spirit....and drinking quite a bit of it too!!  Ouch!  Grin

Kyth has hit the nail on the head and the things he has listed above constitute the core of what i'm trying to achieve with this application.  Its just a tool to be used in conjunction with the existing editor and i will not be attempting to construct something that replaces what the existing editor does perfectly well itself.  That would be beyond my capability and require decompiling the existing editor (which incidentally is pretty much impossible).

I am also doing this project to further develop my knowledge and proficiency with MS Visual Studio and also with editing SFK42 missions and mods.  I would continue with it even if there was zero interest from the community, which thankfully there isn't.  Originally i was toying with the idea of not publicising this app until it was nearly completed but the fact is i will probably need you guys to provide your expert knowledge of editing to ensure i don't go off in the wrong direction?

To satisfy lockie's curiousity as to my mission editing skills i will later today post a one mission campaign that i put together while i was away working two weeks ago.  It is incomplete, hence why there is only one mission in it so far.  It is called Breakout and based on real events that occurred numerous times during the German reverse in fortunes in Russia throughout late 43-early 44. 

It contains pretty much all the elements that i'm looking to incorporate into my editor i.e. historical brief, mission brief, campaign and mission names, briefing map icons, background loading screen, intro video (with a clue to one of my favourite war films?) also includes in-game way-point indicators and on-screen orders etc.  As stated it is not finished and i have not tested it extensively for balance yet so it may still be one-sided and victory conditions also need tweaking and testing.  There is also an entire Russian counter-attack that i have planned but isn't in the mission yet.

Still, there it is, i will try and post it later today but am going out for a while so it may not be until this evening.

Chat later guys, have a great day.  Smiley
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frinik
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« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2012, 10:18:33 AM »

 Ok it's quite clear! As far as your mission is concerned it has to do with one of the numerous times the Germans found themselves encircled by the advancing Sovierts and trapped in pockets like Kowel, Kamenets-Podolsky etc?Huh?
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Panzerfaust
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« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2012, 10:32:19 AM »

Well I don't know if it's being stumped or just the lack of very clear how-to information kyth. Right now an actual "how-to" create a mission from start to finish using all the features in SFK42 is incomplete and scattered. The only person I saw who made an attempt at a very good "how-to" (pictures and text) in printable form was Friednch-Wilhelm, but unfortunatley he didn't know how to do everything in SFK42 either. I think he started it in hopes a person or persons would continue it from there but no one picked-up the ball and ran with it. I like to think that I'm of at least average intelligence but I am one who needs to be shown at least once how to do things from start to finish by a mentor or complete instructions with text and corresponding pictures.

A big thank you to minimi66, the program you are attempting will help quite a bit with guys like me  Smiley

Cheers
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minimi66
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« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2012, 03:15:11 PM »

Hey Panzerfaust,

I couldn't agree with you more, i still marvel at the sheer complexity of it all!  There must have been a good reason for it when the designers put the game together but i doubt if we'll ever know what it was?  I may well put together a how-to document as an aide-memoire to assist me in writing this app.  If i do i'll obviously make it available to all to use, see how things go over the next week or two?  There are several others on here who could also do this job, just depends on how much time we all have to devote to this kind of stuff?  Smiley

Anyway, back to work!

Cheers. Grin
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minimi66
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« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2012, 09:28:10 PM »

Hi guys,

I've done enough on Mission One from my Breakout Campaign for now so i thought i'd let you have a play with it and recommend any improvements or highlight any errors you might find?

As i already said its not really 100% complete and i am going to add a Russian counter-attack from the North and South at the end, when i get a chance to add this i'll upload it.  Also going to change aspects of the mission briefing and add a historically accurate map and brief.  Please ignore any glaring historical inaccuracies or falsehoods in the existing briefs as i made a lot of it up.

Please also remember that this is my first ever mission for SFK42......so don't be too hard on me ok? Lol!  Grin

For now though i'm heading back to work on the mission editor tool ok?

Here's the link to the mission:

http://www.4shared.com/zip/noWfLLWQ/Breakout.html

Please add the following line to your camp_list.engcfg file in the levels\LEVELS\camp folder of your SFK42 folder:

   camp\SB_camp.engcfg, cm_stu_1,               txt_cm_camp_stu_1,           true,  img_user3;

Let me know if anyone has crashes or problems loading it etc?

Cheers fellas.  Enjoy!

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lockie
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« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2012, 11:30:44 PM »

Good news! But I've a couple questions:
1. What the recommended installation order?
2. Did somebody test mission before release had taken place?

============
Finally, I've managed to start er mission Wink
Almost all details were counted and I'm impressed by the mission structure. It's not easy to make it from the very beginig. Of course, there are mistakes, which makes mission impossible to start, but I may say sincerely that u know what u're doing. It's just a lack of experience.
Some remarks, which I think affects the mission core:
1. Mission is completely OVERLOADED by the techniques! My fps was no more than "10". It's too low. Give me a chance to get at least "20" Wink
2. There's no user point map, where to start from the beginning position.
3. There are no original citations.
4. I had to remark the next blocks to start the mission:
a) cs_main - as my point they doesn't work properly (I'm picky Smiley).
b) i_scriptman:scriptman() - doesn't work at all, though there's a very original idea to use two scripts for the user unit: angriff1, angriff2.
5. I don't see a point, why did u enclose file "mis_text.text"?

All mentioned things are just first-time to pick up. Anyway mission works somehow and there is a way to improve it Wink
Thanks for the work and a good starting for the very promising mission(campaign)!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 12:35:57 AM by lockie » Logged

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frinik
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« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2012, 01:52:37 AM »

Great stuff Minimi !Going to try it but is it compatible with the June or November Updates???
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Panzerfaust
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« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2012, 02:11:39 AM »

Hey Panzerfaust,

I couldn't agree with you more, i still marvel at the sheer complexity of it all!  There must have been a good reason for it when the designers put the game together but i doubt if we'll ever know what it was?  I may well put together a how-to document as an aide-memoire to assist me in writing this app.  If i do i'll obviously make it available to all to use, see how things go over the next week or two?  There are several others on here who could also do this job, just depends on how much time we all have to devote to this kind of stuff?  Smiley

Anyway, back to work!

Cheers. Grin

Hi minimi66,
The complexity could be from several factors. Graviteam did produce a military training sim (BTR-70 I think) for the Ukrainian Army. Also the devs have stated many times that they are passionate about making these kinds of sims to a high degree of accuracy. Piracy in the Ukraine is another issue both Vladimir Zayarniy (Graviteam CEO) and Andrei (andrey12345) Zuev (Graviteam Lead Programmer) has expressed concerns about, but I'm not to sure how that may fit into the picture.

A big thank you for also considering doing a "How-To" tutorial. I know it's not a promise but nevertheless it's the best news I have heard on this matter in a long time.
Cheers
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minimi66
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« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2012, 12:12:26 PM »

Hi lockie, frinik, Panzerfaust,

Firstly thanks to lockie for checking out my new campaign/mission, i'll post separately about the issues you raised as i need to look further into a couple of them to see if i can spot where the problems lie. 

Next to answers frinik's question about compatibility i assume that lockie has an up to date installation so if he at least managed to run it (albeit very slowly  Grin) then the mission should run fine with June and Nov updates.  More feedback from other players who try it will no doubt reveal any major compatibility issues.

Unfortunately i have had lots of the dreaded white CTD's when i've had the Ultimate Update and the UU Patch installed so i've been playing without them for the last month or so.  About 10 of the missions i've downloaded from other players will all CTD when i play them with UU/UU Patch installed. 

I intend going back soon to trying to figure out what the problem is so i can install them successfully and then add the Nov update.  Maybe have to do a complete re-install from scratch and see, but i have done that twice already and it didn't solve it!!!  Any ideas guys??  I posted separately about this when i first joined the forum about a month ago?  Original thread below:

http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=10930.0

@Panzerfaust, i totally agree with all you say about Graviteam and their mindset in designing hi-fi military simulations, after all thats why we are all spending so much time playing them and talking on this forum about them.  Can't fault their desire to thwart the pesky pirates either, and its not just a problem in Ukraine either as we all know? 

As to the How-to tutorial, i am starting to see that this may be something i am going to HAVE to do in order to get this mission editing tool right.  Its very difficult to try and design a piece of software when you are forever trying to remember which part of one file is linked to which other ones and which keyword string refers to in-mission orders and which refers to historical briefs etc!!!  I can see me digging into MS Visio and trying to put together a flowchart of some sort to simplify the understanding of all this. So much to bloody do???  Grin

Anyway all good food for thought!

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minimi66
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« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2012, 01:26:05 PM »

@lockie,

Ok mate, to the mission then?

1.  Haven't got a recommended installation order, have to say i didn't consider this as the mission was built purely on my system and i tested it as i went along, extensively!  However you are of course correct it needs third party testing and it needs testing on several different installations to see how it will play on different players installations.  A really good point and one i will introduce from now on.

2.  It was only tested by me....and now you!   Wink  Thanks for the feedback!

Thanks for the comments about the structure, i spent 23 years in the military so i have quite an in-depth knowledge of military operations and their planning, although i was a Marine not a tanker!  I intend to inject as much of my personal knowledge and experience into the mission-building process as i can.  I've also been a tank sim fan since the days of M1 Tank Platoon 2, Panzer Elite etc, etc.

Ok, onto the individual points you found with the mission:

1. I did wonder whether i had overloaded it a bit!!   Grin When you say "techniques," do you mean units?  Or just everything?  It does run fine on my system (prob 30-40 FPS); i'm running an Asus G74SX Gaming Laptop, Core i7 2.2 Ghz, 16GB RAM, nVidia GTX560M 3GB VRAM, Crucial M4 256GB SSD.  Guess i will have to tone future missions down to allow for lesser systems, not that i'm implying for one minute that yours is "lesser" at all!! Grin

2. When you say "no user point map" do you mean historical map?  I did annotate the briefing map with German lines, target/objective area and main axis of advance etc?  Can you just clarify which map you mean?  If you mean the in-game pop-up waypoint markers then you will not have seen the ones i put in because you had to remark out the cs_main macro block which is where all the waypoint markers were  called from.  Actually i'm not sure at all why you had to remark that macro block out at all...very strange?  On my system, the in-game orders and way-point markers all worked fine?  Will have to look into this or maybe Kyth or frinik will be able to shed some light when they have a go of the mission?  Also if you had to remark that block out then you won't have seen the mission briefing either as that is called from line 1 of that block.

3.  Agreed on the original citations, have to say i didn't really consider putting too much time/effort into this aspect as the main purpose of this mission was to learn about editing and see what was possible.  Will do better next time!  Smiley

4. a) Already covered above ref cs_main will look into that, but as said it all works cool on my rig?

b) Not sure what the problem is with i_scriptman:scriptman() either as all the scripts in that macro block work fine and have been tested by me, the only one i am not sure about is the movement of the German supply column to its RV after the main assault has reached the objective area.  Also, i've no idea where the two scripts you mentioned are? angriff1, angriff2Huh?  Did searches in all my script files and i can't find them anywhere?  Still its good if you're impressed with them and i didn't even know i'd put them in? Lol!!

5.  I put mis_text.text in because its how i've been coding the in-game orders i.e. "Advance forward and provide fire support" etc?  What i did is add the following 4 lines into mis_text.text:

        txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack() { Fire support; Advance and provide fire support\n }
   txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack_sh() { Fire support; Advance and provide fire support\n }
   txt_mi_cc03_siege_attack() { Main Attack; The 2nd Kompanie is advancing to your left!\n }
   txt_mi_cc03_siege_attack_sh() { Main Attack; The 2nd Kompanie is advancing to your left!\n }


i then called these orders lines in cs_main using the following:

       ext, add_misobj, order1, gertigplay, 1, txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack, txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack_sh;

and

      ext, add_misobj, order2, geradv01, 1, txt_mi_cc03_siege_attack, txt_mi_cc03_siege_attack_sh;

However i am aware that i think you can add the txt_mi lines to the loc_dat.text file and call them from scripts.engscr.text and that works fine too?  Is that correct as i haven't tried it myself yet?

So there it is, thanks lockie for the constructive critique and for the positive comments, i will take it all on board and aim to improve on the next mission, i will also rectify as many of the above issues as possible that i can.

All comments welcome from anyone else who tries the mission?

Cheers!  Smiley
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frinik
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« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2012, 02:22:52 PM »

I installed your mission MInimi and pasted the required line in the user_camp folder but it doesn't show in my game user missions menu?Huh?

I think my Qosmio laptop with its i5 2.4gz , 8gbs of RAM and an Nvidia GTX560 M 1.5 gb of ddr5 can holds its own playing your mission. I'll try again to enable it and hope it shows in my game so I can sample it and give you my feedback!

RE your crashes\:

OK you enabled Steel Panzer Mod Beta 1.5 first correct? Then the Ultimate Mod( I think the latest one is the February version) second, then the Ultimate June Update 3rd.The November Update comes 4th. IF you are follwoing that order and still getting ctds then it means one of the mods that you enabled is missing some files.

Try making a new installation and just test the vanilla game without anything enabled just to be sure that your original game is not corrupted.Then only enable SP Mod Beta 1.5 and test.Play one of the missions that crashed, play a stock one, anything. Once you are satsified Beta 1.5 ain`t the cause of your problem thne enable the Ultimate Update Mod and try again the same missions.And so on and so forth until you have found the culprit.My own hunch is that its either the June Update or the November one that`s causing you the ctds.... The elimination process is a pain but the only sure way to ensure that you have a well running game
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minimi66
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« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2012, 02:31:07 PM »

Hi frinik,

The line you mentioned needs to be posted in the camp_list.engcfg file in the \camp folder NOT the user_camp_list.engcfg in the user_camp folder?  Hope that fixes it?  Also, the file SB_camp.engcfg needs to be in the \camp folder too?

Let me know if you have any more problems ok?

And yeah, i reckon your Quosimo should gobble it up no problems!!

 Smiley
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minimi66
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« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2012, 02:34:11 PM »

Oh and yes i will be doing a re-install and slowly working through getting everything running and up to date.  I'm pretty certain that everything up to and including SPM 1.5 works fine?  It was the UU/UU Patch that caused most of the mission crashes.

Will keep you posted mate.
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Kyth
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« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2012, 02:54:28 PM »

Good news, I've played it through (twice!) with no problems.

The activated mods are in this order:

Quote
Unofficial Patch Sf v.01
Steel Panzer Mod 1.5 Beta
SPM 1.5 Ultimate Update 1.1 (ENG)
Update Nov 2012 (NTA)
Return of Panzergrau
Breakout

Good first effort! You already have a near-complete mission right there. Congratulations!

There are a few points I want to make about the cs_main and scripting, but that can wait, till later.  Grin

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minimi66
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« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2012, 03:12:23 PM »

That's great news Kyth and thanks for the positive reviews so far!  Waiting for the tips on the scripting etc?  Smiley
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lockie
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« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2012, 07:47:42 PM »

2. When you say "no user point map" do you mean historical map? 
I meant    ext, set_map

Quote
4. a) Already covered above ref cs_main will look into that, but as said it all works cool on my rig?
b) Not sure what the problem is with i_scriptman:scriptman()
Now it works, my mistake Smiley

Quote
5.  I put mis_text.text in because its how i've been coding the in-game orders i.e. "Advance forward and provide fire support" etc? 
As my point it's better to use er personally created txt file.
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