Beginning work on a SFK42 Campaign/Mission Editor.

[Kyth]

That's great news Kyth and thanks for the positive reviews so far!  Waiting for the tips on the scripting etc? 

Hi,
Some suggestions:

1. As mentioned by Lockie, it's better for all the in-mission message text to be written to the <mission name>_loc_data.text file.
The mission name, history and quotes (if any) are written to <New name>.text file, in the text folder.
'New name' means, anything other than the existing files such as mis_text.text, which are intended for the stock missions. 

2. Every text string has to be terminated with a semi-colon like this:

txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack() { Advance and provide fire support\n; }

The text for objectives' on-screen display is normally labelled with a '_sh'. This consists of a short text (for display with the objective icon) and a long text (for the message box):

txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack_sh() { Fire support; Advance and provide fire support\n; } 

3. Every 'add mission objective' line has the following format:
                    a        b       c                 d                         e
ext, add_misobj, order1, gertigplay, 1, txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack, txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack_sh;

a. Order name. The naming convention is 'order1' followed by 'order2', 'order 3' and so on.
b. Map object name. Something that has to be defined in the 'cs_map()' section.
c. The code number for the 'active' state.
d. Long String to display in the Briefing Screen.
e. Strings to display in the Game Screen. A short text for the icon, followed by a long text for the message box.


4. Every 'add map object' line has the following format:
               1       2           3            4       5             6            7       8       9   10   11
ext, add_mo, map0, attack_rub, 0xc0000080, 0x80202020, 4.0, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;

1. Name of the object, or group of objects. Useful for changing colours, or removing later on.
2. Symbol or sprite name. Refer to table 9.2 for a listing.
3. Symbol colour (0x, alpha, red, green, blue)
4. Text colour (0x, alpha, red, green, blue), if any.
5. Size of the object. At any one size, some symbols are already larger than others, so play around to see what's suitable.
6. Text string for (4), if any.
7. Skew / tilt angle of the symbol in degrees. Ranges from -180 to 180. '0' = symbol follows the map contour heading.
8. Map contour for the placement of the symbol.
9. Contour point number. Default '-1' (not specific). Anyway, try to use one-point contours for placement of symbols.
10. Rotate along with the map, true / false. Flag symbols should always be upright, hence, 'false'. (Flag placement contours should point due north).
11. Offset value for text, left-right.  Default value '0' (centered).

5. To link the Mission orders with an actual map location, the following labels have to share the same name: Section b in the Objective entry, and Section 1 in the Map Object entry.   

That's all for now, good luck!

[frinik]

The line you mentioned needs to be posted in the camp_list.engcfg file in the \camp folder NOT the user_camp_list.engcfg in the user_camp folder?  Hope that fixes it?  Also, the file SB_camp.engcfg needs to be in the \camp folder too?

Let me know if you have any more problems ok?


Oh silly me! I didn't read properly the instructions.....

Thanks Minimi...

[frinik]

HI Minimi!

Ok this time following the instructions( hem  ) it worked but then something happened once finished loading my game would crash but without any error message. I knew what this meant.So I opened your mission in the MIssion Editor and I almost fell off my chair when I saw the number of entries 45 plus tons of infantry. My Qosmio simply could not handle that much load an dsimply gave up! Your Asus is a beast!!!!

One rule with this game ( based on my own experience tinkering with the ME), don't saturate your missions with infantry as they gobble up fps and most people won't be able to play the game.You can field as many as 90 tanks ( I have done it) but the moment you start putting too much infantry( that includes AT and Artillery guns, MGs mortars etc) the game simply becomes sluggish and impossible to play. I edited your mission looking at your script and eliminated a lot of infantry and then it worked but I had the feeling that I lost the gist of what you did.Still very impressive put together; you have the Kyth, LOckie or Rends in you no quesiton about it and SF just gained one more talented mission maker.May I suggest you edit your mission, cut all infantry but at least half( that includes trucks and apcs with panzersternegruppen) and increase the number of tanks.Make your mission 2/3 armour and 1/3 infantry and guns.Also mind the balance of strength; the Tiger II and Panthers are very strong in this game( as in real life) and you have to give the Soviet tank a 2 to 1 edge if you want your mission to be challenging.In fact replace the Panthers with Panzer IVH put more T-34/85 and JS-2s. Otherwise it was enjoyable but as I said it wasn't your original...Congrats!

[Kyth]

Hi,

Following on from my earlier suggestions, there's a more subtle matter to be raised about scripting:

The Life Cycle of a Mission Objective

This example is lifted off the 'cs_main()' block of the stock mission, 'ca01_taranovka':

   a)   ext, add_misobj, order1, taranovka, 1, txt_mi_ca01_siege_taranovka, txt_mi_ca01_siege_taranovka_sh;
   b)   ext, wait_tr, siege2;
   c)   ext, change_mo_cols, taranovka, 0xc0800000, 0xc0800000;
   d)   ext, change_misobj, order1, 3;

Notice the sequence of events:

a) Mission Objective, referred to as 'order1' is assigned. This is linked to the 'taranovka' map object (this appears as a blue flag and oval on the briefing map, and a light-blue square icon in the game screen). The objective is given the status of '1' or 'active'.

b) The game waits for a trigger to be activated. In this case, the trigger is 'siege2', which is a 'superiority of allies in a contour' trigger. 'Siege2' is set to activate when your friendlies achieve a force superiority of 2x in the area of Taranovka village.

c) The game then changes the colour of the 'taranovka' map object to red. This is purely optional, but it is useful if you want the change of control to be displayed on the briefing map.

d) The game also changes the state of 'order1' to '3', or 'completed'.

After this line, you may want to add on a 2nd objective, say 'order2'. To make sense from the player's POV, any subsequent Mission Objectives also need to flow the same way, a) to d).
Usually, the last Mission Objective will also be a Victory condition, i.e. to bring the Mission to a successful conclusion.

Give it a try and Good luck!

[minimi66]

Morning chaps!

Thanks to all three of you for all the positive reviews on the mission and the wealth of tips on how to improve the next one, believe me, all points have been taken on board.

Yes frinik my Asus is indeed a beast!  It runs Breakout without even missing a beat, at least 40+ FPS!!  Am well happy with it, it can even run the most demanding flight sims at full settings and get very good frame rates.  Not to mention stuff like ARMA2, BF3 etc etc.

I might just build a few infantry-heavy missions for myself and make them available to anyone with a higher end system to try out?  Kind of like a 3DMark Benchmark test!!!  Lol!! 
After all the Russians did often make use of massed infantry/tank assaults to overwhelm German strong-points so it would be a very relevant type of mission.  Point taken though, i will reduce infantry for missions that i make available for download.

Also noted is the balance of German heavy/medium tanks against Russian mediums, i did suspect it would be a bit one-sided? However the planned yet un-implemented Russian counter-attack was going to be 100% T-34/85's and KV-1's, with possibly a couple of SU-85's as well?

I think the tip about the infantry/tank ratio is a very good one and i will try and make a more workable balance between these in future. 

Just a thought and i'm sure someone has suggested this before but has anyone ever tried to do a mod that allows 3-4 Russian infantry to ride into battle on the engine grill of a T-34/JS-122 etc? I realise this would not be a simple thing to achieve at all but thought i'd ask.  Obviously we have the ability already for infantry to embuss/debuss from Sdkfz 251's etc so there are in-game animations for these actions, not sure whether it would be possible to develop an entirely new animation along these lines though?  Maybe Andrey12345 would know if this is feasible?  We've all seen countless clips of the Russians using this tactic in WW2 documentaries etc?

@Kyth, many thanks for all that very useful info you supplied, very clear and easy to follow.  One question though, at the very bottom of your post in number 5. you mention:

"5. To link the Mission orders with an actual map location, the following labels have to share the same name: Section b in the Objective entry, and Section 1 in the Map Object entry."

So, does this mean to link the in-mission orders to the map location objects the 2 lines would look like this:

ext, add_misobj, order1, gertigplay, 1, txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack, txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack_sh;

ext, add_mo, gertigplay, attack_rub, 0xc0000080, 0x80202020, 4.0, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;



I've done a complete re-install of SFK42 to try and eliminate the problem i was having with CTDs in quite a few missions (mainly Rends one's!!  Sorry Rends!  ), i haven't yet added all the main mods and tried a few of the problem missions but i will be doing that over the next few hours before i go up the pub to watch Manchester City thrash Manchester United this afternoon!!!    Hope i don't eat my words there!!

Probably worth trying to get this thread back on track now as far as the mission editor tool goes so i'll try and limit posts on here to topics related to its development and progress.  Thanks again guys for all the advice and help on Breakout, i'm looking forward to making some changes to the existing mission and adding a few more missions to it over the coming week or two.

Cheers fellas! 

[Kyth]

@Kyth, many thanks for all that very useful info you supplied, very clear and easy to follow.  One question though, at the very bottom of your post in number 5. you mention:

"5. To link the Mission orders with an actual map location, the following labels have to share the same name: Section b in the Objective entry, and Section 1 in the Map Object entry."

So, does this mean to link the in-mission orders to the map location objects the 2 lines would look like this:

ext, add_misobj, order1, gertigplay, 1, txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack, txt_mi_cc02_siege_attack_sh;

ext, add_mo, gertigplay, attack_rub, 0xc0000080, 0x80202020, 4.0, txt_md_ger_startzone1, 0, startzone1, -1, true, 0;

Yes that would work, but it would be more logical to have 'gertigplay' located in one of the objective locations, instead of the starting position.

[minimi66]

Ah yes, i see what you mean!  I wasn't paying attention to the startzone entry at the end of the line!  Point taken.

Thanks Kyth.

[minimi66]

Hello all,

I have just received the following message from the guy who has been advising/helping me with the coding behind the planned mission editor tool:

"Re: VB Forums - Mission editor update.
I haven't forgotten you but I have to admit, even after several hours reading and cross referencing, that I'm still finding it hard to get a grasp on how the file structure works and what parts of it might reasonably be separated into a new editing utility.

I did consider creating a class for each file in which properties would hold the editable parts while the template would be built around these on saving to file. However, this quickly became a major project even for the simplest files needing separate routines for parsing existing files and dividing them up between properties and internal structure and for creating a file from scratch, taking account of all the variations of adding or deleting sections and infinite other subtleties.

I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the flexibility of the human in dealing with such complications may well be superior in this case. There are just some things people do better than computers. I can see some value in creating a dedicated editor which loads all the relevant files separately (a tabbed interface perhaps?) into text boxes for editing possibly accompanied by hints and tips on what can be edited and how to go about it. But I'm less convinced than I was about the need for and practicality of dividing the editable content from the rest of the text."

Not sure how much of the above means much to some of you (no insult intended as some of it doesn't mean much to me either! ) but the bottom line is guys that if this guy thinks it is too much of a mountain to climb then i doubt whether i will have the knowledge to complete it?  I am however, if there is enough interest, happy to look at the "dedicated editor" that is mentioned above?  This i am pretty sure is within my capabilities and i actually have a sample VB project that already does what this text editor would do.

Another option i am looking at is a web-based application that would open the actual text file in question in a web browser interface but would have text boxes and/or drop down listboxes to choose new text entry options etc or add completely new ones such as mission names?

So, i doubt based on the above whether an application along the lines of my original intentions is feasible at this time, sorry guys but i will as stated still push on with other options.

Also, as in my conversation with Panzerfaust yesterday i am convinced there is a need for a new "Unofficial Guide to Mission Editing Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942."  Possibly either as a .pdf, .doc or .html  document (or all three?) complete with photos, diagrams and sample code etc?  Would welcome collaboration on this from anyone interested?  I would see this as a step by step guide right from planning and researching the historical background and "plot" for your mission up to testing, debugging and uploading it.  I think the existing mission editor manual is ok but but it can be confusing and some of its formatting is a bit haphazard.  Also, some of the English translations are not ideal and actually confuse the issue more than they help (this applies to the tool tips in the mission editor itself as well!!)  Apologies to all the Russians out there, but thats just my point of view as a Brit!!

So, i would welcome any thoughts fellas?

Cheers.

[Kyth]

Not sure how much of the above means much to some of you (no insult intended as some of it doesn't mean much to me either! ) but the bottom line is guys that if this guy thinks it is too much of a mountain to climb then i doubt whether i will have the knowledge to complete it?  I am however, if there is enough interest, happy to look at the "dedicated editor" that is mentioned above?  This i am pretty sure is within my capabilities and i actually have a sample VB project that already does what this text editor would do.

Why not create a wizard-type application that will go through each area step by step:

Step 1: Creating a Name text, Blurb text and Mission Briefing
Step 2: Doing up the Briefing Map
Step 3: Doing up the Mission Objectives
Step 4: Any additional in-game text
Step 5: Assigning the Historical map, Loading background and Video

That should cut down the number of complications.

[minimi66]

Ok Kyth i will look into that as a possible way forward?

Thanks.

[Kyth]

Do it in baby-steps 

I think assigning a name, blurb and briefing sounds like an easy target. Once we're done with that, we can move on to more complex tasks.

Remember, nothing succeeds like success,

[frinik]

What Kyth is proposing makes sense and would be simpler and probably encourage people to give it a go.However your idea of a web-based application sounds intriguing as well. How would it work?

RE a New MIssion Editor Manual I agree with you and would be willing to help when and if required.

[Kyth]

I suspect any web-based application would require scripting of equal complexity.

Let's face it, there isn't any magic solution to the problem, to create something user-friendly and reliable, we'll just need to knuckle down, put our collective noses to the grindstone, burn the candle at both ends etc. etc.

[minimi66]

Hello fellas,

Been away from the pc over the last couple of days in order to stay married for a while longer!!  Lol! 

All good suggestions above guys and i am still beavering away at looking for the best solution.  The idea suggested by the VB guru of a dedicated SFK42 text editing tool is i think going to be the way ahead?  But only if the end product offers a substantial benefit over using an existing test editor.  I do however already have code and other information on building a text editing utility so developing something bespoke from there could be the road to go down.  See how things go eh?

Speaking of text editors, not sure if you guys have found these two rather nifty text editing utilities on the web but i have acquired them and they are ideal for improving the process of editing the script files in the game.  They are called TextPad and WildEdit, they are both from the same site and although not free you can try them first to see how you get on with them.  I bought both of them as i will definitely use them in my mission editing until the new tool i'm doing hits the streets.

http://www.textpad.com/products/index.html

Another one to try if you haven't already is Notepad++ which is free:

http://notepad-plus-plus.org/

Anyway, sure that most of you hard-core eddies (editors!) will have them but thought i'd mention them.

@frinik, thanks very much for the offer of help on the tutorial/mission editor manual edit.  Will be in touch by PM once i get started with a format/framework for it, feel free to fire any ideas or suggetions my way on here or message me?

Thats all for now chaps, will keep an eye on the threads over the coming days.

Cheers fellas.

[Kyth]

Now, to suddenly veer off-topic. 

The intro video to the mission - what movie is it from? Inquiring minds want to know,

[frinik]

It's from Cross of Iron a 1977 film by Sam Peckinpah one of my favourite war movies!!!!Very classy touch!Starring James Coburn , Maximilian von Schell and Ernest Borgnine.

Apparently the incident in which Coburn's character hits some SS mistreating POWs was inspired by real life Panzer Ace Kurt Knispel who punched a SS guard who was mistreating some Soviet POWs.An act which almost incurred him a court martial and cost him the supreme German award - the Knight's Cross - despite having over 162 tank kills to his name and possibly as many as 192....He died in battle with his crew in late April 1945 not even 24 years old.

[minimi66]

Hey guys,

frinik is correct on all points apart from one, Ernest Borgnine was not in the movie.  I think the character you are mistaking being played by Borgnine is actually James Mason?  He plays Steiner's CO, Colonel Brandt.  But yes, most likely the best movie ever made about the Russian front in WW2, the film Stalingrad comes close but the actors are not as good as in Cross of Iron.

The clip i put in was a very rough and ready edit, it needs some encoding tweaking to get the resolution better, there are some great bits of the film that would make good video intros for your missions.  Unfortunately there are NO German tanks featured in the movie at all???  However given the general shortage of tanks in the German forces at this time its actually probably quite realistic that none are portrayed.  Pity though, would have been great to see some T34 vs Panther/PzIV etc?

The movie was filmed in Yugoslavia and the T-34's shown belonged to Yugoslav Army! 

Very interesting story about Kurt Knispel frinik?  Not sure where the bit with the SS guard you refer to is in the film though?  Do you have a Directors Cut version or something?  Its definitely not in any of the versions i've ever seen and i probably first saw this film in about 1981-82?  The version i have is a BRRip that i downloaded.  Must have watched it about 1000 times!!

All good stuff though, can't recommend the movie enough to those who haven't seen it yet?

Cheers.

[frinik]

 Minimi I actually made 2 mistakes:

You are right; now that I think of it Ernest Borgnine is not in the film.He played in All Quiet on the Western Front and somehow I misplaced him in Cross of Iron. It's British actor David Warner I had in mind.

2) the aprt inpsired by Kurt Knispel is acutally not this film but anothger good one statting James Coburn as again a German officer Steiner in the film The Eagle has Landed written by British writer Ken Follet and losely based on a real German plot to assassinate Churchill in 1943. Because Coburn plays both main roiles as a German I confused both films.At the beginning of the Eagle has Landed Steiner hits an SS wachtmann who is beating or maltreating prisonners.This I read was inspired by Kurt Knispel's famous intervention.Not sure where or how Follet heard about it though.

The T34-85s depicted in the film are post war production models of course.

As for the shortage of Germna tanks it's a myth ; the Germans were never short of tanks.They were, starting in 1944, short of fuel and trained crews and spare parts but not of tanks.In fact German tank production peaked in September or October 1944 despite round-the-clock Allied bombings.