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Author Topic: Steel Panzer Mod 2.0  (Read 271217 times)
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Antipov
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« Reply #160 on: September 24, 2013, 08:40:59 PM »

Thanks, Kyth. I was using SF in 2008-10, but had to store my game computer while traveling until this year, and have returned to SF. I am rusty. My tactics have been like Rommel's in France in 1940---the "bull in the china shop" school. I never learned how to use the map in SF, and I am doing so now. I am having to learn how SF relates to real tank tactics. All very interesting.
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frinik
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« Reply #161 on: September 25, 2013, 06:05:26 AM »

Antipov; buy yourself a laptop, they're so performing and affordable nowadays that you can play SF or anything else while on travel or away from home. You can get a decent , game-friendly laptop for less than $ 750.00.
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Antipov
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« Reply #162 on: September 25, 2013, 04:24:40 PM »

I have a 2006 MacBook Pro. No more laptops! I am cash poor as hell right now.

I have found getting the maximum performance out of the opposition depends the most on putting them on 4 proficiency. This put the zip in my 1942 Germans. Giving the opposition 4-10 makes for quite a party, especially if you put the Sovs on 2 for 1942. 4 Opposition no longer sit there like dummies and let you shoot at them.

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frinik
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« Reply #163 on: September 25, 2013, 06:01:07 PM »

I have a 2006 MacBook Pro.

Is this a desktop? What kind of specs does it have? From what I heard Apple products have high prices and low specs at least from a gaming standpoint!

The Ai is unpredictable in SF. At times they are very aggressive and at other times dumb and passive... But compared to the AI in TvsT they are one step above and they don't have X ray eyes. Apparently the Ai in Graviteam RTS is very good. I wish we could upgrade the game to get the map sizes and AI proficiency that Graviteam has put into Steel Armor Blaze of War and their Graviteam Tactics RTS. That'd be bliss! Roll Eyes

Sometimes the AI abandon their vehicles even though they were not hit nor damaged. I have no clue why? May be the morale factor? I have seen that quite a few times. Perfectly functioning JS-2s or Tiger I s abandoned by their crew without any reason. This infuriates ME... Deserters, Traitors, Cowards! Shocked
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fabianfred
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« Reply #164 on: September 25, 2013, 06:57:42 PM »

excuse my ignorance....but how does this whole balance thing work? Is it set by the mission maker or in our start settings...I don't understand it at all. Huh?
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frinik
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« Reply #165 on: September 25, 2013, 08:21:39 PM »

when you start your game go to game options and chose difficulty settings (the icon at the bottom of your screen with a huge exclamation mark! You can then set the experience level of each side using a slider. Supposedly it makes the AI more or less proficient depending on the side you set the slider rule to.(to the left maximum, to the right minimum)The balance slider from 0 to 10 increases the balance of enemy forces 10 being the maximum .the higher you set the slider the more likely you are going to face the maximum number of enemies on the battlefield. It's based on probabilities/randomness. If you set the balance at 5 it means the forces in presence should be even.
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Antipov
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« Reply #166 on: September 27, 2013, 12:07:16 AM »

The 0 through 10 balancer sets the weight of equipment given to one side or the other. As I understand it, set to 0 the Germans get the advantage in numbers and weapons. Set to 10 the Sovs get the advantage. Set to 5, nobody, but this is the setting recommended by the designers because it is supposed to generate the most interesting types of vehicles.

My old MacBook Pro is a flop with games. It overheats, and the fans can't deal with the temperature. I had to retire it from gaming.

Hey fabianfred, I'm leitmotiv!

I have to admit there are things which are just ridiculous about SF, which are probably curable, unlike the older AFV "sims." The maps are clumsy. Too many times formations deviate from a set route. I can never get a tank to stay on a road. In my game F does not work too well. SF did make a heroic attempt to make the commander and gunner communicate. I appreciate this. Nobody has ever modeled the T-34 Model 1941 turret like they have. I have learned tactics just for this tank, including crowding my other two tanks next to me as extra eyes! I see why they moved in packs! If I get annoyed, I remember the plusses.

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Kyth
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« Reply #167 on: September 27, 2013, 01:27:06 AM »

The 0 through 10 balancer sets the weight of equipment given to one side or the other. As I understand it, set to 0 the Germans get the advantage in numbers and weapons. Set to 10 the Sovs get the advantage. Set to 5, nobody, but this is the setting recommended by the designers because it is supposed to generate the most interesting types of vehicles.


If you're playing as the Germans, yes.

The conventional explanation for the difficulty levels:
0 - lowest difficulty
10 - highest.
However, they'll only work if the mission designer has actually linked the appearance of units to the level of difficulty. There's a slider bar in the mission editor for this,

And the mission editor settings are pretty specific about which unit will go with which difficulty level -
so if you edit the mission further, to switch the player's side, you would find the difficulty levels behaving the opposite way!

« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 01:55:51 AM by Kyth » Logged

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Antipov
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« Reply #168 on: September 27, 2013, 04:32:54 PM »

Ah, I see. My information was based on somebody's rough translation on the Lighthouse forum years ago.
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Antipov
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« Reply #169 on: September 29, 2013, 09:53:59 PM »

I think the biggest weakness of the design of SF is the sometimes poor communication between player-commander and his AI gunner. Sometimes he swings the gun right on target and nails the threat. Sometimes you are futilely red flagging with your F as a JS-2 levels its gun at you and that's the end. It can be so bad I'll leap into the gunner's seat---which is no good because the commander is needed to spot threats. Some of the SF controls can be very troublesome---especially when you need them to work perfectly!

Another thing, SF is a spring 1942 situation sim. When all these late-war goodies are added, are the superior late-war infantry anti-tank weapons added as well?

Do any of the smoke devices on the vehicles work or the roof top smoke grenade launcher/anti-personnel grenade launcher on the late-war German tanks? Weren't most of the late-war Sov tanks fitted with smoke generators?

I know the Matilda gunner can fire smoke.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 09:57:58 PM by Antipov » Logged
Kyth
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« Reply #170 on: September 30, 2013, 01:36:31 AM »

I think the biggest weakness of the design of SF is the sometimes poor communication between player-commander and his AI gunner. Sometimes he swings the gun right on target and nails the threat. Sometimes you are futilely red flagging with your F as a JS-2 levels its gun at you and that's the end. It can be so bad I'll leap into the gunner's seat---which is no good because the commander is needed to spot threats. Some of the SF controls can be very troublesome---especially when you need them to work perfectly!

The AI gunner can't see everything that you can. Since his POV is slightly lower, the line of sight may be blocked by the ground or vegetation.

A subtle hint when assigning targets - there's a red dot underneath the ones he can see.

Also, you can directly take over the gunner's station (Ctrl-F2) and start blasting away full-time.  Grin
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 01:40:10 AM by Kyth » Logged

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Antipov
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« Reply #171 on: September 30, 2013, 04:53:40 AM »

Thanks for the tips, Kyth. I was in a Tiger II and thought for once we weren't going to get blasted to pieces. I liked the way that JS-2 coolly took our measure and sent us on our way. Completely unimpressed.
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frinik
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« Reply #172 on: September 30, 2013, 06:02:31 AM »

I think the biggest weakness of the design of SF is the sometimes poor communication between player-commander and his AI gunner. Sometimes he swings the gun right on target and nails the threat. Sometimes you are futilely red flagging with your F as a JS-2 levels its gun at you and that's the end. It can be so bad I'll leap into the gunner's seat---which is no good because the commander is needed to spot threats. Some of the SF controls can be very troublesome---especially when you need them to work perfectly!


I always use the gunner position by default.I don't trust the AI to be able to identify and priorize targets based on the seriousness of the threat.I can't count the number of times I see AI-manned tanks being blasted to pieces while they blissfully ignore their own death and go about machine-gunning infantry.

Positions like loader and driver you can entrust to the AI but the more important ones; commander and gunner you should keep for yourself to increase your chances of survival.
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Kyth
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« Reply #173 on: September 30, 2013, 08:08:41 AM »

I remember a couple years back, 1_m (Iceman?) had something to say about the AI gunner performance which I found rather interesting - it's possible for crew to gain proficiency:

Quote
Crew management system... maybe something like M1 Tank Platoon II where your crewmen gain skill with each battle survived. Or even like Steel Beasts where your personal gunnery score is reflected in the gunnery skill of your fellow tanks. This would probably tie in with an expanded campaign system.

From this you have something even right now in campaigns of SF: Kharkov 42.  Though it is not displayed anywhere.

Player may correct AI gunner's shooting. Experienced AI gunner shot better than newbe AI gunner. Look previous shoot results and say Far (Num +), Near (Num-) or Hit (Num 0 or Enter) - if do it's in correct way AI gunner shooting more accuracy.
Protect our crew form mission to mission...
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"What am I, chopped liver..?"

"Yes."
frinik
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« Reply #174 on: September 30, 2013, 08:29:28 AM »

Now that you mention it I have noticed that playing the same mission over and over again the AI seems indeed to be more aggressive and accurate .I always thought it was my imagination or wishful thinking but if Iceman says the Ai can improve with experience then it's a good thing.But based on over 4 1/2 years of playing the game regularly the AI is not consistent in its improvements. The game coding is 6 years old and based on comments made by people playing Graviteam's subsequent RTS the AI has improved markedly. I just wish there was a way to rejuvenate/refresh the coding for the AI in SF to bring it up to Graviteam's current standards... Sad
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Antipov
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Posts: 66


« Reply #175 on: September 30, 2013, 06:41:06 PM »

The problem with dropping into the gunner's seat is that you have instantly reduced your situational awareness to that of a T-34 1941 commander, which is to say, a tunnel, the gun sight. I know, it can't be helped. As you say, your idiot AI gunner is killing infantry when a tank is shooting at you. Sometimes the AI gunner just hums---he is a killing machine nailing one tank after another, in total control. If you give him a target, he nails it. Those are great battles, but usually you are destroyed because the gunner is off in dreamland, or you are shooting instead of watching for ambushes.
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frinik
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Posts: 3145


« Reply #176 on: September 30, 2013, 08:02:42 PM »

It depends what tank you like to play with. For example whenever I use a German tank even a humble panzer IV F2 or H I switch quickly from the gunner's position (F2) to the commander one(F3).As the gunner you can use you gun sight to scan the battlefield and use magnification to better find hidden targets. One thing missing in SF there's no proper periscope modeled for the commander. In Panzer Elite, for example, I found that function very useful. In SF you have to use the portholes pressing the pgup and pgdn keys which is not as efficient. Soviet tank commanders are definitely disadvantaged in game as they were in reality.
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Antipov
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« Reply #177 on: October 01, 2013, 12:29:17 AM »

My absolute favorite SF mission is the Chepel one for the T-34. When the Axis are on the ball it turns into a deadly cat and mouse or mouse and cat game between your T-34 and the German tanks up in the hills. I just played the best one I've ever played. One German tank hunted one of my tanks (and must have killed him---the fool roared off to fight the Germans at close range), and he was hiding waiting for me. I saw him because the boob had his lights burning (this really needs to be fixed!). Hit him, but didn't kill him. I had to hit him about six times with two AP and four HE before he burned (sparks flew with each impact). It was a tough flank of PzIII or PzIV. The thing was, it was 600 meters and I was shooting through a bush at night and he was moving! I guessed with about four of the shots. It was a great shoot out. And, just as I suspected, no sooner was I enjoying my conquest than a shot went right by us. Reversed like mad---and we bogged.

Game needs a bail out toggle so your virtual crew doesn't have to sit and get wasted!
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frinik
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« Reply #178 on: October 01, 2013, 06:03:13 AM »

Game needs a bail out toggle so your virtual crew doesn't have to sit and get wasted!

Sometimes after you are killed as commander your crew will bail out.But you're right once you're out of the game your crerw should be able to take over and keep fighting or at least bail out before the tank is destroyed. I don't understand why as human player once the commander is dead you're out of the game whereas the AI manned tanks keep playing even after their commander is taken out?Huh? Roll Eyes

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Kyth
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« Reply #179 on: October 01, 2013, 09:10:11 AM »

Because that's your avatar. The commander is your avatar, so try to keep him alive.  Grin
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"What am I, chopped liver..?"

"Yes."
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