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Author Topic: DLC ''Operation Hooper'' (released 28.03.13)  (Read 35123 times)
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andrey12345
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« on: March 09, 2013, 06:35:46 PM »

DLC ''Operation Hooper''

DLC will focus on the operation "Hooper" - Angola in February 1988.
Participants of military operations, on the one hand - the Angolan army supported by Cuban volunteers, on the other UNITA battalions with the support of South Africa forces.

The DLC will be devoted to an attack on the Cuito Cuanvale base in 20th of February 1988.
DLC adds to the game:

1) Two new combatants for operations and quick battle are Angolan army and SADF.
2) The new area 120 square kilometers wide.
3) 3 operations for Angola, UNITA and SADF.
4) Weapons and equipment that was used in the conflict.

Buy and Download
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 01:24:13 PM by admin » Logged

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andrey12345
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 06:41:27 PM »

Screens
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3748235#Post3748235
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=79097&p=1975199&viewfull=1#post1975199
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Dane49
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2013, 06:41:48 PM »

Any idea when it will be available for purchase on Gamersgate?
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andrey12345
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2013, 06:43:35 PM »

Any idea when it will be available for purchase on Gamersgate?
I hope - 1-2 weeks with updates for previous DLCs and March patch.
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Dane49
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2013, 06:44:47 PM »

 8) 8) 8) Cheesy
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2013, 08:22:08 PM »

Wow that fast!   8)
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2013, 08:28:58 PM »

Is there a total run down of units/equipment in game.   Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Roll Eyes

Like landrovers or zsu23-4's lol.  OOOOOO t34-85?  Cheesy
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Dane49
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2013, 08:59:30 PM »

https://sites.google.com/site/sabushwarsite/maps
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?117771-Angolan-War-Cuito-Cuanavale-Battle
http://books.google.com/books?id=_r701h-tWZwC&pg=PA83&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false


These are interesting sites about the Operation-Hooper,with maps and general info,no great TO&E references though.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 09:53:10 PM by Dane49 » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2013, 09:20:30 PM »

Was able to find this in a forum online about the 2 consecutive Operations Hooper and Packer

FAPLA
 He lists 9 FAPLA brigades (in addition to aircraft which he says number 80+ jet aircraft and 123 helicopters) :
 47th, 59th, Tactical Group 1 (essentially T55 tank battalion)
 16th, 21st, Tactical Group 2 (essentially T55 tank battalion)
 
13th, 24th (at Cuito Cuanavale)
 25th, 66th (at Tumpo, near Cuito Cuanavale)
 8th (protecting link between Menongue-Cuito Cuanavale)
 
He also describes a FAPLA brigade as being 1,500—2000 (typically 1,900) men, so I guess that equals 13,500—18,000?
 He describe each brigade as consisting of:
 
- 3x Motorised Infantry battalions ... BTR-60 (APCs)
 ........6x 82mm mortar
 ........6x Sagger (ATGM)
 ........6x AGS17 (grenade launcher)
 ........3x SA-7 teams
 ........4x 14.5mm ZPU (AA)

 - 1x Tank company (10x T54/55 tanks)
 
- 1x Artillery battalion
 ........2x batteries each with 6x 120mm D-30 (2A18)
 ........2x batteries each with 4x 76mm
 ........1x battery with 8x BM-21 (MRLs) and
........6x 120 mm mortars
 
- 1x Recon company (PT-76 tanks, BRDM-2 apc)
 
SADF
 
MODULAR
 (split into 3 battle groups, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie)
 
- 5x rifle companies — 32 Battalion
 - 2x companies — 101 Battalion
 - 1x battery MRL (Valkiri 127mm)
 - 1x battery 120mm mortar
 - 2x troops of 20mm AA ("Ystervark" self propelled truck)
 - 1x battery (8 pieces) G5 155mm artillery — 4SAI (South African Infantry regiment)
 - 1x "battery" (3 pieces) G6 self propelled 155mm

- 61 Mechanised Infantry Battalion
 - 55x Ratels (Ratel-20 apc, Ratel-90 with 90mm tank-gun)
 - 62x logistical vehicles
 
- 1x squadron Olifant tanks (13 tanks)
 
HOOPER
 Similar, but 4SAI rotated with 82 South African Brigade
 
PACKER
 (troops again rotated)
 - 1x squadron Olifant tanks ...... Regiment President Steyn
 - 1 sqdn x Ratel-90 .................. Regiment Mooi Rivier
 - 2 Bn. x Mech. Infantry .......... Regiment de la Rey / Great Karoo
 - 1 troop x 120mm mortar ....... 44 Para Brigade
 - 1 troop x MRL ...................... 19 Rocket Regiment
 - 3 company x infantry ........... 32 Battalion
 - Recon elements ................... 4 Reconnaisance Regiment ("Recce")
 - 3 battalion x regular ............. UNITA 3rd, 4th, 5th
 - 2 battalion x semi-regular..... UNITA
 
https://sites.google.com/site/sabushwarsite/Home/modularhooperpacker2/the-sadf-and-unita-during-ops-modular-hooper-and-packer/sadf-oefen
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 07:09:36 AM by Dane49 » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2013, 09:37:04 PM »

Where this data?
It seems a strange mix, which considered all that was in the distant vicinity of where the combat.

P.S. See map from our links - only 25 Bde on Angolan side (with attached elements), only 2 UNITA bns, no semi-regular UNITA
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 09:43:45 PM by andrey12345 » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2013, 09:42:46 PM »

Quote

Andrey,I got this information from here.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?117771-Angolan-War-Cuito-Cuanavale-Battle/page3
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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2013, 09:45:44 PM »

Unfortunately, each side inflates the number of opponents (as well as the loss of those who have been present), and it is difficult to understand who is where and when to present accurately.
Even the number of tactical battles various from different sides of the conflict.

In our game everyone will be able to write his own version of the conflict.
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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2013, 09:59:00 PM »

Some clips of a South African produced video on Operation Packer (after Hooper):



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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2013, 10:02:35 PM »

Its about Hooper+Packer in one package
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2013, 10:18:01 PM »

I'm not disputing your figures Andrey,those are just some general information postings I found on a quick search of the internet.

I haven't been able to locate any official information regarding this campaign.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2013, 10:44:04 PM »

I haven't been able to locate any official information regarding this campaign.

From my first post "The DLC will be devoted to an attack on the Cuito Cuanvale base in 20th of February 1988." - At this time Feb 20-29 in Angola were battles in one place - east of Cuito Cuanvale.

But this is not important  Smiley. I just write about what happened to understand that despite the fact that there is a mass of material - is difficult. As different sides of the conflict write different, often conflicting and very confusing.

For example from your link "It was absolutely unnacceptable for South Africa to occupy a town deep in Angola."
But wait, shelling the town from MRLS and heavy artillery - it is normal, use heavy armor and large amount of troops on its outskirts is normal, ambush on columns that are moving to the city are also fine. And occupy the town is unacceptable!? Well, LOL.

What's really very sad in terms of the reconstruction of events.
It turns out that a lot has to to think out and extrapolate.
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« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2013, 10:51:48 PM »

The United States did the same thing in Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam war.We could bomb,raid and operate special forces in those countries but were not allowed to occupy them for fear of widening the war.It seems South Africa was operating under the same principal.Bomb and raid-OK.Occupy-No,for fear of world wide condemnation and sanctions.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:WdxY8pmx-oIJ:www.ajol.info/index.php/smsajms/article/download/55856/44320+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh2nDi77YUd_HNz0ZgHHqApj7CbzFMHm-lFHw_Ibj2d2188oAZXoylZOndG1xExGvcTvZNb1HExWc2YGuWL6UXAEDvl_JIV0Oxq9LfSm_V43P3s6meJ8haTIP16AC4XxfKWC4m2&sig=AHIEtbQJ_VptNIRDQps-j_OIT0eW2kS1eQ
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« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2013, 11:04:05 PM »

The information is vary convoulted.  One thing that bugs me is casulty figures of unita units in same area or attached to SADF are all mysterious.  Also in how htey where used.  Many references I have seen to shreaded unita infantry riding SADF armor and the like.  To be honest I get the impression UNITA was doing the bulk of th in the face fighting while SADF supported with armor and arty.  It is always interesting to me how SADF kia/wia are listed but never mention at all of other forces.  It is myopic and baised.  If your force is a mech and armor but bulk of force in light infantry........  Also it is hard to get real stats on Cuba Vs SADF.  But both sides did wierd things with data.  That is for sure.  But I love how the SADF historys seem to ignore the unita guys often riding the tanks.  Its a SADF VS everyone we are awesome story fest.  The real history.............well who the hell knows. 
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« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2013, 11:11:12 PM »

"General Geldenhuys also reported that 31 South African soldiers were killed and 90 hurt between July 1987 and Feb. 25. Angola has said that hundreds of South Africans died, including black South African and South-West African soldiers.

 Pretoria says it does not disclose details of black losses because of possible intimidation of the families of these soldiers, who serve in black battalions."

That was the reason the website stated that only the white soldiers were counted on the casualty list.

And another thing to remember in all wars the first casualty is the TRUTH.
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« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2013, 11:21:52 PM »

"General Geldenhuys also reported that 31 South African soldiers were killed and 90 hurt between July 1987 and Feb. 25. Angola has said that hundreds of South Africans died, including black South African and South-West African soldiers.

 Pretoria says it does not disclose details of black losses because of possible intimidation of the families of these soldiers, who serve in black battalions."

That was the reason the website stated that only the white soldiers were counted on the casualty list.


LOL...........  Figures are high then.  It seems clear to me how forces where deployed.  I totally forgot about the Black south africian soldiers.  There where ALOT of them.  That is more telling.......  A native SA soldier.......non white would have training and equipment on par with national state.  How deployed seems to be ALOT different.  And more politically motivated.  Unita on the other hand.......well it was their war anyhow.  Training levels would be all over the place and various levels of leadership.  THey most certainly would take the brunt of losses.  These simply have to me factored in on the total picture of fighting.  Commiting your armor on cherry picked occations and ignoreing everyone else........You get a weird run down of fighting.  What is clear is that oliphant desipte upgrades fari poorly in opening phases againt t55 t62.  It did fine but not up to what was expected.  This is supported by later withdrawls of armor and its later use.   Taking hits and battle damage do not seem to be in the historys of them much.  Ok great, they LOST 3 as they could not cover thaat up, as recovered by Cubans.  How many took battle damage that returned them to the rear.....or crew wia/deaths.  Its all nuts on the history and DOES need to be read with a BIG grain of salt.  IMO
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