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Author Topic: Any update on Mius front?  (Read 297392 times)
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andrey12345
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« Reply #540 on: June 17, 2014, 06:40:08 AM »

More humane and realistic version of this algorithm



Tank returns for a short distance, "on their traces" (where the probability of getting stuck is small). And then covertly moves to a new position.
Bold blue line - mostly covered from enemy
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
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« Reply #541 on: June 17, 2014, 03:34:19 PM »

Well that will work better than the present behavior.

Humane has nothing (much) to do with crew members actions in battle.  Effectiveness is what counted.  If you read most accounts of WW2 combat, the TC HAD to risk exposing his head in the hatch to gain any sufficient degree of situational awareness, especially against hidden anti-tank guns.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #542 on: June 18, 2014, 03:21:43 PM »

Well that will work better than the present behavior.
Present behavior somthing like as your picture (in attack mode) in miniature Smiley (with short distances) - occasionally advance as letter V. As you can see this is not good. No hard criteria - not have a sence.

Humane has nothing (much) to do with crew members actions in battle.  Effectiveness is what counted.  If you read most accounts of WW2 combat, the TC HAD to risk exposing his head in the hatch to gain any sufficient degree of situational awareness, especially against hidden anti-tank guns.
Of course yes.
But you must admit, this look very strange - do the max safe maneuver (by design in your picture) but with unbuttoned commander that dramatically increase the probability of loss control and/or combat capability of the tank (if commander wounded). What the sense?
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
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« Reply #543 on: June 18, 2014, 03:46:34 PM »

I don't know what sense it would make other than that's the way it was actually done.  Unfortunately with games there is always a mathematical probability that the TC will be hit.  In actual combat they knew they were more vulnerable but felt that they had to take the chance to be effective or just to survive.

We're not talking about traveling for miles or km in reverse.  We're talking about the tendency for the armor to expose it's sides and rear to enemy fire and to move aimlessly about.  It may make sense to a programmer but it makes no sense to a player.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #544 on: June 18, 2014, 05:24:02 PM »

I don't know what sense it would make other than that's the way it was actually done.  Unfortunately with games there is always a mathematical probability that the TC will be hit.  In actual combat they knew they were more vulnerable but felt that they had to take the chance to be effective or just to survive.

This is just baseless speculation. How many from the 10,000+ TCs tank commanders that they felt and should? How often they do it - every day, year, month? These are questions which no answer. Therefore felt / should etc - such terms are not suitable if we talk about the simulation.

We're not talking about traveling for miles or km in reverse.  We're talking about the tendency for the armor to expose it's sides and rear to enemy fire and to move aimlessly about. 
Units in the game do just that if they can. For this mandatory criterion is visibility (knowledge) about enemy. And it is obvious that for a player flying over the battlefield and the tank in which visibility is limited with observation devices, this knowledge will be different. You try having a significantly greater knowledge (as a player) to criticize the behavior of a particular unit with less knowledge and limited mobility.

It may make sense to a programmer but it makes no sense to a player.
Reveal a terrible secret of gamedev  Grin. Opinion of the players absolutely not important in such matters. Ie if we were arguing about the color of the buttons in the menu or style of music, then perhaps someone should have take in account player's opinions.
In simulation questions rules only robust algorithms with strong criteria. Not programmers and not players  Grin.
Safe moving back at long distances or always rotate front armor to enemy - not robust. This work only at clear plain surfaces and for one target - a very rare situation in the game.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
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« Reply #545 on: June 18, 2014, 06:11:47 PM »

It's just as much baseless speculation to suppose it did not happen often.  Common sense militates against that.
I admit the only basis I have for supposing it did is memoirs, and interviews I have seen in the past.  Michael Wittman said that his greatest fear was AT guns and that the only way to spot them was to have his head out of the hatch.  He can't have been the only one.
You won't find everything that happened listed in a Military Archive.  To exclude everything that you don't find in triplicate in an Archive is being too rigid and mechanistic.

As far as criteria for how armor behaves.  In real life, which you are simulating, every private would have a pretty good idea of his local situation and the likely direction to the nearest threat.  Not even a private tank driver would turn his vulnerable side towards that direction, even if he had not seen an enemy or heard a shot for a long time.

Thirdly, you can't really claim that a tank leaving it's revetment to deal with a new threat to the side, while staying in the revetment would have given it the best protection to fire from the front and sides is an example of strong criteria and robust algorithms.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #546 on: July 09, 2014, 08:09:04 AM »

Some upgrades on tanks


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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
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« Reply #547 on: July 09, 2014, 09:39:43 AM »

very pretty, the new tool bar on the left looks interesting too.
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Wörghern
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« Reply #548 on: July 09, 2014, 01:52:35 PM »

Beautiful 3D model indeed; well seen for the moving parts on the gun mantlet. Is this a Panzer III Ausf. N ?



The Ausf. N was used to provide close support for the Tigers because the smallest vehicles were more agile in confined areas, whereas the Tiger was rather slow and vulnerable.
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Panzergranate Neun und Dreizig Geladen! Schuss!
lavish
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« Reply #549 on: July 09, 2014, 03:08:44 PM »

Closed, open. Spot the difference.  Smiley
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andrey12345
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« Reply #550 on: July 09, 2014, 04:38:52 PM »

Is this a Panzer III Ausf. N ?

Hard to say about photo. May be newed build with some issues like gun mantlet from L (this is not right for N on 1943).

I dont see any historical (WWII times) photo with this type of mantlet on N mod.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
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« Reply #551 on: July 09, 2014, 05:14:26 PM »

HMMM that pz3 N.... its hmm missing a road wheel!   I think that maybe a reproduction mock up using something else as a base.... 
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andrey12345
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« Reply #552 on: July 09, 2014, 05:18:26 PM »

HMMM that pz3 N.... its hmm missing a road wheel!   I think that maybe a reproduction mock up using something else as a base.... 
With high probability is newly made. With some bugs. As it called in Russian "novodel" Smiley
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
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« Reply #553 on: July 09, 2014, 05:59:30 PM »

Bravo ! Well seen guys for this replica !  Shocked


Here a pic again:





...Those are not replicas  Grin



This German tank as well as another one of the same type were encased in concrete and half-buried excepting the turrets in 1953 for using it as a close defense of the Bardufoss Air Force Base, Norway.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 06:06:47 PM by Wörghern » Logged



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Ballacraine
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« Reply #554 on: July 10, 2014, 06:44:25 PM »

I agree with Flashburn.

Whilst it is not a bad mock-up from a distance, a genuine Pz III would have 6 wheels, not the 5 larger wheels there.

The one covered in concrete is indeed a Pz III variant of some sort.

Balla.  8)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 06:46:27 PM by Ballacraine » Logged
andrey12345
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« Reply #555 on: July 12, 2014, 08:35:58 PM »

https://twitter.com/graviteam/status/488058553966792705
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
Flanker15
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« Reply #556 on: July 13, 2014, 08:35:27 AM »

Do they effect the damage model or just decoration?
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andrey12345
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« Reply #557 on: July 13, 2014, 09:36:12 AM »

Do they effect the damage model or just decoration?
As any other parts of tanks tracks affect to armor penetration and damage model.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
andrey12345
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« Reply #558 on: July 29, 2014, 08:00:03 AM »

Pz IIIs in GTMF

PzIII ausf J (kz)



PzIII ausf J (lg)



PzIII ausf L

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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
andrey12345
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« Reply #559 on: July 29, 2014, 08:01:26 AM »

Pz III ausf N (late)



Pz III flamm based on early M



Pz III ausf M

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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
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