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Author Topic: Any update on Mius front?  (Read 278973 times)
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wodin
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« Reply #220 on: January 16, 2014, 08:06:07 PM »

Andrey what I'm asking is if the English version will be released at the same time as the Russian version..or will we have to wait like we did with APOS?

Sounds like it will all be released at the same time which is great news.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #221 on: January 16, 2014, 08:59:54 PM »

Andrey what I'm asking is if the English version will be released at the same time as the Russian version..or will we have to wait like we did with APOS?

Sounds like it will all be released at the same time which is great news.
As I say we dont plan separate versions. One version for both locales, and yes, released in same time Smiley
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
lavish
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« Reply #222 on: January 17, 2014, 03:03:29 PM »

We make it even more hardcore and realistic in terms of simulation
Kiss

softer to the players in terms of ingame tools and interfaces.
Kiss Kiss

As an ideal - maximum realism with a human face. Plus an ability to visually check the different aspects of the game by player.
Kiss Kiss Kiss

For example visibility - you can see what smoke from shot or dust from wheels hiding somthing for some time, etc.
Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss

Or example armor penetration besides regular statistics and diagrams will be right in the game in real time displayed why the weapon penetrate the target (or not penetrate).
Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss

All of course will count the game itself.
Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss

But somthing "old tools" will be removed or replaced by new ones. For example - squad icons->section icons, LOS -> removed, ALOS -> new modern ALOS, LOF -> Advanced LOF, events table -> events chain, green squares->LOF markers on the ground+immediate auto placement and more more.
Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Huh?

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andrey12345
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« Reply #223 on: January 17, 2014, 06:15:18 PM »

If have enough strength, I made ​​a short movie and show some new utility in action.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
andrey12345
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« Reply #224 on: January 22, 2014, 06:34:52 PM »

Detailed description for a number of new features in GTMF (in Russian).
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=81577

Maybe someone will translate?  Wink  Roll Eyes
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
Bletchley_Geek
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« Reply #225 on: January 23, 2014, 03:19:19 AM »

Here's my take, with the help of Google Translate. Note that I'm here paraphrasing what you're saying Andrey, maybe too liberally. Sentence structure in Russian is quite different at times from that of English or Latin languages, and the kind of word-by-word translation you get from Google doesn't make much sense.

LOS/LOF visual aids

Quote
Помощь в определении видимости при расстановке Первое что можно заметить - пропали зеленые квадратики, и им на смену пришли хитрые сегментированные стрелки, которые показывают как далеко видно в 8 направлениях из каждой клетки, где можно установить юнитов. Чем больше синих сегментов тем дальше видно. Игра позволяет смотреть (переключение идет в реалтайме мгновенно) с 3х разных высот, условно: танк (2м), присевший солдат (1м) и лежачий солдат/вид из окопа (25 см). Стуги будут расположены в окопе, поэтому выберем соответствующую высоту кнопкой сверху Обратите внимание дальности в этом случае существенно сократились. Следующее нововведение - возможность автоматической расстановки выбранных юнитов. Работает она следующим образом: 1) Выбрать соответствующую высоту (это мы уже сделали ранее). 2) Нужно расставить юниты приблизительно в тех местах где вы хотите чтобы они заняли оборону и указать им нужное направление. 3) Выбрать юниты, которые надо расставить. 3) Нажать кнопку на панельке внизу: После этого игра мгновенно подберет им наилучшие места в небольшом радиусе, в которых обеспечивается следующее: 1) видимость по текущему направлению и соседним (слева и справа - это необязательно) максимальная; 2) видимость со стороны бортов и задней проекции - минимальная; 3) направление сохраняется. Что мы можем увидеть на картинке По прежнему можно расставлять все вручную не пользуясь никакими автоматическими утилитами.

We've replaced the green squares we used in Operation Star to encode how far your units can see when placed in one action spot, by segmented arrows pointing in each of the compass directions. The more segments are displayed along a particular direction, the farther the unit can see (NOTE: not sure if the hue is encoding important info or not, as being LOS partially obstructed). You can check out visibility by setting three spotting heights corresponding to:

1) Spotter on a tank turret (2 meters) (NOTE: this height depends on the AFV model?)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173505&d=1390005101

2) Spotter is crouching (1 meter)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173506&d=1390005113

3) Spotter is prone or in a foxhole or trench (25cm)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173507&d=1390005126

(Question: I think you mixed up the screenshots, as the screenshot for 1) and 3) shows the same setting being selected).

Stugs will be dug-in (?), so choose an appropriate height through the button on the top bar. Note how ranges significantly decrease.

The next feature is that of deploying automatically selected units. It works in the following way:

1) Set the 'spotter height' setting (as we did previously) to what makes sense (i.e. when deploying a StuG, the 'tank turret' setting)

2) Place your units in the general vicinity of the area you want them to be deployed in, and specify the desired facing.

3) Select the units you wish to be automatically deployed

4) Press the button in the bottom panel

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173508&d=1390005138

The engine will determine the best location within a small radius (Question: How small?), so that:

1) Visibility is maximized along the front of the vehicle or unit. Optionally, you can require the engine to factor in visibility to the flanks of the unit.

2) Minimize the exposure of the rear and flank aspects of the unit.

3) Comply with the facing given by the player.

As shown in this picture

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173508&d=1390005138

you can still set it manually, and override the decisions made by the engine.
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Bletchley_Geek
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« Reply #226 on: January 23, 2014, 03:37:11 AM »

Quote
На скриншоте хорошо видно что у стуга максимальная дальность видимости весьма велика, но есть мертвая зона на средней дистанции. Смотрим что видит второй стуг Видим что в двух направлениях с длинными синими стрелками видно достаточно далеко. Теперь проверим что видно в обратную сторону и действительно ли стуг скрыт от наблюдения Как видим за исключением небольшой области рядом весь ландшафт окрашен в красный цвет и с высокой вероятностью дальше 100 метров с тыла и фланга нас не заметят. Это понятное дело тривиальный вариант, в следующий раз я покажу более интересные места, где выбор клеток для расстановки не так прост для человека.

We've improved the way the field of view of units is represented, to make easier to assess how well we have deployed our units. By selecting the button in the bottom panel (Note: the one with the three 'waves' on top a tank)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173509&d=1390005821

you get a depiction of the area the unit can see from its current location, without taking into account possible obstacles (such as smoke or dust clouds) that only arise when the simulation is running. The less intensely shaded is a spot, the more likely is that the unit spot enemy units in that particular spot. Here we don't get an explicit sense of the maximum spotting range, but rather of what units can actually see. In the screenshot above, we can see that the Stug location allows to dominate well the hill in front of it, but it - as expected - can't see anything in the gully nor the reverse slope of the hill it is standing on. Note that the nearby Stug is blocking line of sight. Yet the range arrows indicate that the maximum spotting range in that direction is quite high outside of the blind spot induced by the second Stug.

Selecting the second StuG

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173510&d=1390005829

we can see how the field of view changes. Rotating the camera we can check how well the StuG spots towards its rear and flanks

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173511&d=1390005838

In this particular case, it's quite easy to determine without this tool what can be spotted, but we find it very helpful in more complex and ambiguous situations.
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Bletchley_Geek
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« Reply #227 on: January 23, 2014, 03:53:45 AM »

Quote
Расстановка в "плохих" условиях.

На скриншоте видна деревня на этапе расстановки Как и в Звезде, можно увидеть: 1) Внешние квадраты оранжевого и красного цветов, которые показывают места где нельзя вырыть окопы и нельзя ставить технику (красный цвет), они обрабатываются специальным образом на дальних дистанциях, таким образом чтобы области проблемной расстановки были заметны издалека. 2) Внутренние квадраты разных цветов, которые интегральный показывают уровень скрытности квадратика (зеленый самый лучший). Посмотрим на зеленый квадратик вблизи Несмотря на то что скрытность обеспечивается весьма хорошо, одновременно видно что и обнаружить противника и как следствие вести по нему огонь из такого квадратика затруднительно.

Automatic deployment taking into account LOS area

This screenshot depicts the deployment phase in a village

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173583&d=1390210867

As in Operation Star, the colour of the border of a square lets you know whether the selected unit can't be dug-in in that terrain (orange) or placed (red). The colour of the inner square lets you know how exposed will be the unit in that particular location (where green means the unit will be hidden from view, orange means it will be partially exposed, and when the square has no colour it means it will be fully exposed).

Let's take a close look at one of the locations reported to conceal the selected unit

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173584&d=1390210882

Quote
Поставим стуг в такой квадратик и проверим это Как видно вокруг красная зона и скорее всего техника размещенная в этом месте никого не заметит. Нажмем кнопку авторасстановки и посмотрим куда игра переместит стуг Направление сохранилось, борта закрыты и видно относительно далеко в основном направлении.

Let me show you how the automated deployment routine works in this constricted environment, by placing a StuG in that spot

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173587&d=1390211321

it can't see much of use. By clicking on the auto-deployment button the StuG gets deployed a short distance to the right of the location we had put it

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173588&d=1390211331

and note that the StuG can now spot some stuff at a distance, along the direction we had originally specified.

Stug deliver in such a box and check it As can be seen around the red zone and likely placement techniques in this place no one will notice. avtorasstanovki Press the button and see where the game moves stug Direction preserved, the board closed and seen relatively far in the main direction.
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Bletchley_Geek
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« Reply #228 on: January 23, 2014, 04:01:41 AM »

Let's see how this feature works in slightly more difficult conditions

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173589&d=1390211575

clicking on the auto-deployment moves the StuG two squares forward

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173591&d=1390211600

where the visibility is much better

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173592&d=1390211609

Note that the visibility range estimation depicted by the segmented blue arrows is quite pessimistic, and at times won't agree with the FOV tool.
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Bletchley_Geek
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« Reply #229 on: January 23, 2014, 04:09:06 AM »

Tank crew sighting display

Another new feature is a tool that depicts how well the crew of a tank can spot through the sights installed in it. For example, in the picture below

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173629&d=1390414477

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173627&d=1390414452

we can see what openings offer optimal sighting conditions (blue cones) and others are just adequate (gray cones). If the sight was blocked, we would get a red cone.

These are the visibility cones for a StuG

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173628&d=1390414466

The visibility cones are only shown when the crew is going to use them for sighting

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173630&d=1390414632

in the image above, where the StuG is unbuttoned, we only get to see the sighting conditions for the driver.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 04:54:33 AM by Bletchley_Geek » Logged
Bletchley_Geek
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« Reply #230 on: January 23, 2014, 04:15:17 AM »

The display of these visibility cones change depending on the tank crew current occupation or status. For instance, if the vehicle is stationary, then the driver can look to the sides of the vehicle (rather than keeping his eyes on the direction he's driving)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173632&d=1390414684

when the loader is loading a round for firing, he's not lookin anywhere

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173633&d=1390414694

if the gunner is firing at a target, he'll be looking in the direction of the target

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173634&d=1390414704

When the crew suffer losses (either death or serious injury) the degradation in the spotting ability becomes apparent

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173636&d=1390414867

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?s=643969c4bf63b1b7909ad107462a2dbc&attachmentid=173635&d=1390414854

as there's nobody available to look through a particular opening or periscope.


« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 04:54:18 AM by Bletchley_Geek » Logged
Bletchley_Geek
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« Reply #231 on: January 23, 2014, 05:07:40 AM »

Let me make a couple questions/remarks which have probably been asked/made:

  • You guys really need to find someone (possibly a volunteer) that helps you with in-game translations and community management in general. I can imagine that finding a native Russian speaker who's fluent in English and has an interest in wargaming can be hard. But this is holding your awesome engine back.
  • I am very happy to see you guys continue going down the path of making more transparent to the player stuff like how well do tank crews perceive their environment. The UI streamlining looks good, yet I wonder what happened to the Order of Battle browser we used to get on the right hand side of the UI. I found that invaluable to reach quickly my units. The elimination of the Minimap on the other hand is quite logical, since the 2D map view of GTOS was extremely functional (I particularly liked that one could give orders "by the map").
  • I do like a lot tanks, and GTOS tank model is excellent. Nonetheless, I wasn't so happy with the infantry model - or at least, in the way the engine choice of animations to convey to the player what his troops are doing. In a way, GTOS was very similar to Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord, where the emphasis was in the tanks and the infantry was a bit of a window dresser.
  • One of my biggest grips with GTOS was that the units' orders being executed weren't displayed at all or clearly on the user interface. For instance, there was no way to see where I had sent units as I'm unable to retain details like 'I sent those guys to house B or house C' after some time has passed. Maybe this has changed in the latest patches, though.
  • I see you've referred a few times to 'sections' in some of your posts. Does this mean we can split squads into sections / teams? That would be very nice  Smiley
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Dane49
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« Reply #232 on: January 23, 2014, 04:25:36 PM »

Nice job with the translations but I wouldn't count on any micro managing of troops in the future of this game.
Most likely the exact opposite since more units and larger battles seem to be where the game is headed.
Andrey is pretty much dead set against giving the player too much control of units in this game.

You can still see where your troops have been ordered by selecting certain features in the game currently and the latest uniform mod by Nightpostman looks good for the infantry also.

Not sure about splitting squads,I think you will be able to select teams and hopefully 1/2 squads to simulate casualties instead of squads when creating your platoons during set up for QBs or during the Op Phase in campaigns.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #233 on: January 23, 2014, 05:24:27 PM »

Andrey is pretty much dead set against giving the player too much control of units in this game.

You are totally right Smiley

MM is a worse thing in games.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
andrey12345
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« Reply #234 on: January 23, 2014, 05:28:35 PM »

    • One of my biggest grips with GTOS was that the units' orders being executed weren't displayed at all or clearly on the user interface. For instance, there was no way to see where I had sent units as I'm unable to retain details like 'I sent those guys to house B or house C' after some time has passed. Maybe this has changed in the latest patches, though.
    Will be some steps in this direction too.
    Use tactical info indicator - they shows paths and orders. And delay order (RMB on stop button) in GTOS.


    • I see you've referred a few times to 'sections' in some of your posts. Does this mean we can split squads into sections / teams? That would be very nice  Smiley

    Of course no split, no divide, no micromanage - only add, integrate or multiply. But in GTMF you can use sections in one click manner, of course w/o split. See in the next series at Sukhoi forum Smiley
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    andrey12345
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    « Reply #235 on: January 23, 2014, 05:29:23 PM »

    Big thanks for translation!  Smiley
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    Tanker
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    « Reply #236 on: January 23, 2014, 06:25:59 PM »

    You are totally right Smiley

    MM is a worse thing in games.

    As long as this doesn't come true.

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    andrey12345
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    « Reply #237 on: January 23, 2014, 07:09:57 PM »

    This is ideal UI  Grin

    But now is not achievable.
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    Bletchley_Geek
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    « Reply #238 on: January 23, 2014, 11:30:27 PM »

    Of course no split, no divide, no micromanage - only add, integrate or multiply. But in GTMF you can use sections in one click manner, of course w/o split. See in the next series at Sukhoi forum Smiley

    I don't like micro-management much, either. But I'd like to see a clear demonstration that the AI can develop a plan which implements historical tactical doctrine, which reflects accurately historical levels of training, experience and command & control. That is, I'd like to see platoons developing a 'fix & flank' attacks, I'd like to see squads advancing on bounding overwatch, I'd like to see the AI to deploy a unit as a fire support element, etc.

    With all due respect, I never got to see anything of the sort in GTOS.
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    Tanker
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    « Reply #239 on: January 24, 2014, 06:12:02 AM »

    I think the only way you are going to see that in the near future is a game that allows MP, like TW games.  Each human player could take a platoon, under a company commander, for example, and fire and maneuver.
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    Bring back 3D markers!
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