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Author Topic: Any update on Mius front?  (Read 292645 times)
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andrey12345
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« Reply #260 on: January 25, 2014, 08:27:49 PM »

Carefully see this vid


And feel the diffirence before humans and AIs

P.S. This is forefront of AIs with HUDGE budgets.

I don't think that robot is sober enough to drive.

You are absolutely intolerant and disrespectful to robots  Grin
AI not bad, its another Smiley
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
Missouri_Rebel
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« Reply #261 on: January 25, 2014, 08:35:18 PM »


Any way to see the screens as full sized? Hard to see what is going on here.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #262 on: January 25, 2014, 09:31:15 PM »

Maybe you can find the time soon to show us the new way you do orders and how they will look at the platoon level?
When its done.

Are you saying I wont be able to select a squad and make an advance with it alone up a street while flanking with the other 2 squads?
Where I say this?
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
Missouri_Rebel
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« Reply #263 on: January 25, 2014, 09:58:35 PM »

Maybe you can find the time soon to show us the new way you do orders and how they will look at the platoon level?
When its done.

Are you saying I wont be able to select a squad and make an advance with it alone up a street while flanking with the other 2 squads?
Where I say this?

I thought I read that the lowest level that can be given orders is at the platoon level and that you could no longer issue orders to individual squads.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #264 on: January 25, 2014, 10:02:31 PM »

Maybe you can find the time soon to show us the new way you do orders and how they will look at the platoon level?
When its done.

Are you saying I wont be able to select a squad and make an advance with it alone up a street while flanking with the other 2 squads?
Where I say this?

I thought I read that the lowest level that can be given orders is at the platoon level and that you could no longer issue orders to individual squads.

What Huh?
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
Missouri_Rebel
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« Reply #265 on: January 25, 2014, 10:14:48 PM »

Я думав, ви не можете віддавати накази ескадронів тепер. Тільки взводи.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #266 on: January 26, 2014, 12:06:27 PM »

Я думав, ви не можете віддавати накази ескадронів тепер. Тільки взводи.

"ескадрон" not equal squad, ескадрон = company/battalion

You can command squads, platoons, coys or any mix of troops. And even sections (parts of squads).
Please see https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036




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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
andrey12345
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« Reply #267 on: January 26, 2014, 12:10:03 PM »


Any way to see the screens as full sized? Hard to see what is going on here.
Left click on image, you can see at up-right corner of image "two arrows" icons, click on it and you get FS images viewer.

Its a Facebook Smiley
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
Krabb
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« Reply #268 on: January 26, 2014, 01:39:50 PM »

In-game events
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lavish
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« Reply #269 on: January 26, 2014, 04:00:24 PM »

I knew they will dummy touchpad optimize it!  Grin Very clear and informative, things are shaping up nicely.
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Missouri_Rebel
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« Reply #270 on: January 26, 2014, 08:16:17 PM »

Я думав, ви не можете віддавати накази ескадронів тепер. Тільки взводи.

"ескадрон" not equal squad, ескадрон = company/battalion

You can command squads, platoons, coys or any mix of troops. And even sections (parts of squads).
Please see https://www.facebook.com/notes/graviteam/squad-sections-and-changes-in-unit-selection/657565747636036

Sorry for the confusion. I'm glad that squads can still be given individual orders. Somehow I thought that was reserved for platoon level and higher with the new engine.





Any way to see the screens as full sized? Hard to see what is going on here.
Left click on image, you can see at up-right corner of image "two arrows" icons, click on it and you get FS images viewer.

Its a Facebook Smiley

Hmmm. Wasn't giving me an option last night. And to me Facebook is an action you take when you can't put down a good read.

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Missouri_Rebel
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« Reply #271 on: January 26, 2014, 10:10:30 PM »


This looks promising. Thanks for posting.

A couple suggestions for the event icons and a wish.

1) leave the time there so players can evaluate things better or possibly in the info field of the various events

2) Change the font to a bigger more bold size.

3) Be able to create events i.e. hotspots. I know I already asked about hotspots, but that was  before I knew there were events. It would be great if we could place an event location on the map and be able to click the user made icon in the event area to jump there. Since it wouldn't be tied to a unit like navigating with the unit panel you could use it for a full range of things. .... Set location, camera height, and camera tilt and create event.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Those framerates look down quite a bit from what I get with the current engine. I hope it isnt too much of a hog.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #272 on: January 26, 2014, 11:04:13 PM »

1) leave the time there so players can evaluate things better or possibly in the info field of the various events
Time stamps have 3 min ETA, in practice it not needed. And will be removed.

2) Change the font to a bigger more bold size.
This is standard game font for this resolution. No bold, no size.

3) Be able to create events i.e. hotspots. I know I already asked about hotspots, but that was  before I knew there were events. It would be great if we could place an event location on the map and be able to click the user made icon in the event area to jump there. Since it wouldn't be tied to a unit like navigating with the unit panel you could use it for a full range of things. .... Set location, camera height, and camera tilt and create event.
This is a different objects, not events. If they (theoretically) introduced, they will be in other place.


Those framerates look down quite a bit from what I get with the current engine. I hope it isnt too much of a hog.
I do not think that you're playing on my computer (or absolutely identical one), in the debug version of the game Smiley. Therefore, to compare FPS does not make big sense.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
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BRING BACK MARKERS


« Reply #273 on: January 27, 2014, 04:33:46 AM »

Will you make a demo available Andrey?
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Bring back 3D markers!
andrey12345
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« Reply #274 on: January 27, 2014, 10:30:33 PM »

Will you make a demo available Andrey?
When GTMF reach beta stage, we make public demo.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
Bletchley_Geek
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« Reply #275 on: January 28, 2014, 12:33:11 AM »

Of course not.
This beautiful military phrases, but they are absolutely meaningless in terms of AI. AI operates on distinct algorithms, just solve the problem through some criteria. Usually solutions are not like humans.

To be honest, Andrey, I am not sure what to make out of this statement. This a simulation that portrays a historical situation, involving very real German and Russian soldiers, which were trained in very specific ways to perform well-defined tasks and constrained by physics and psychology. One can get away with taking many liberties in Mass Effect animating those Geth troopers, but not in an environment that so closely resembles reality.

I mean, the AI in GTOS kind of behaves like a blind man feeling its way around - much like one would expect a purely reactive AI would behave. I have a hard time finding it has any kind of sense of 'purpose' when it is in the attack. It needs more structure to constraint its behaviour: and that 'structure' are tactics. Just imagine the FIFA 2014 guys having their players act like the AI in GTOS does, without having instilled into it a notion of 'what's footy about' or 'how to play footy', or some ability to handle the rules of the game such as 'offside', 'penalty' or 'tackling'. It would look hilarious, very much a Robosoccer does. Indeed robots in Robosoccer don't really play footy like humans, but I'd say they're not playing footy at all. Indeed, there's no such a thing as a Rulebook for tactical warfare, but there are some 'verities': such as that of an attack at an enemy position without covering fires isn't going to work most of the time.

Teaching the AI some battle drills, by encoding them in a procedural plan library isn't rocket science: it's about letting know the AI about the notion of a 'fixing' and a 'flanking' element, and letting generic algorithms instantiate those concepts to fit the situation at hand, select which units need to belong to each element, and work out how to approach the objectives. That is, you put in the code the 'what' and you let the algorithms to search for the 'how'. If you want a 'down-to-earth' example of how such an approach works in a commercial video game, just do some research on how FEAR AI was implemented. And you don't really need to go all the way down that path, either, to deliver something that would leave the competition sadly coughing in the dust.

In my experience, those planning routines don't really consume that many resources: the search space can be tailored in many clever ways. Path-planning is the real performance hog.

I really wasn't expecting an answer like that, it leaves me wondering what's the purpose of the whole exercise  Huh?
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« Reply #276 on: January 28, 2014, 06:14:55 AM »

Any rough Idea when beta time comes?  That will be a knock at my door for a few things I want to make.   Grin
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« Reply #277 on: January 28, 2014, 09:08:17 AM »

"having their players act like the AI in GTOS does, without having instilled into it a notion of 'what's footy about' or 'how to play footy', or some ability to handle the rules of the game such as 'offside', 'penalty' or 'tackling'."

You haven't seen the Hammers play lately have you?! Cheesy

Cheers

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andrey12345
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« Reply #278 on: January 28, 2014, 10:27:46 AM »

but there are some 'verities': such as that of an attack at an enemy position without covering fires isn't going to work most of the time.
Again you think as human Smiley
"attack", "position", "covering", "isn't going to work", " most of the time" is good for human but not have any sence for AI.

Yes, we can mask the actions of AI and make it look like as they are doing something similar to what you wrote Smiley
But real state of things not changed. Moreover, your phrases work in theory, but in practice, even for humans do not work most of the time.
Moreover, theoretically if it was achievable in the game no one would have done this, as 99% of cases, the AI ​​would not do anything because the rules have told him do not do that, do not do that. This is not suitable for game.

Therefore, the game uses a different approach to AI and not stereotyped actions.

Teaching the AI some battle drills, by encoding them in a procedural plan library isn't rocket science: it's about letting know the AI about the notion of a 'fixing' and a 'flanking' element, and letting generic algorithms instantiate those concepts to fit the situation at hand, select which units need to belong to each element, and work out how to approach the objectives. That is, you put in the code the 'what' and you let the algorithms to search for the 'how'.
Sorry this is not have any practical sence regard to AI.
You describe some sorts of scripts or FSMs, not AI. We not use scripts or FSMs in tactical game.

AI is the decision-making, not an action for some templates.

Yes "procedural plan library isn't rocket science", its primitive way to do somthing called "AI". Deadlock way.
And rocket since in our world is simplest than AI, we (humans on Earth) have rockets more than 50 years, and no real worked AI on human level. Its the fact from real world  Wink. In my humble opinion, this situation has arisen precisely because are trying to make the AI ​​as a human on a completely different basis. This is the huge mistake.


Yes, now this approach frequently loses to human-made scripts of FCMs, but it has prospects in contrast to these methods (scripts, templates, FCMs). But national doctrines and other strange things in it certainly will not be.

P.S. About FEAR AI - there is the same sort of goal (plan)-based AI as we have used in GTOS, but they have far far fewer actors and actor classes and very simplest environment compared to GTOS. Yes in this cases it work more predictable.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 11:31:32 AM by andrey12345 » Logged

Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
lavish
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« Reply #279 on: January 28, 2014, 12:04:47 PM »

A game with this many variables (think all the possible situations/combinations) cannot have "perfect" AI with our current technology, which is of course sad. Now, wouldn't it be interesting to see what would happen, if Graviteam could hire some AI specialists, buy/rent huge computer cluster or super computers, develop a neural net and run through a vast number of iterations of different gameplay situations.  AI should be flexible and I believe, maybe, a neural net or something like that is needed to do it. But even then the AI could only do things that it was adapted into. And I guess it wouldn't run on our PCs. Grin Maybe somewhere in the future with more computing power and better AI theories/algorithms...
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