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Author Topic: Any update on Mius front?  (Read 279284 times)
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Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #360 on: March 13, 2014, 05:01:32 AM »

Its just an issue of resources really.  If Gravi had 20 game artists, a budget and a year or more of time I am certain they would end up going western front at some point.  But look where they are located.  Right in the middle of Kharkov.  To not focus on the back yard as your primary focus would be daft.  But mixing things up is good.  I really like that I can play an eastern front campaign and then go play in Africa or in some big stupid desert in one game.  Just ww2 other places would be choice at some point.  =)  Also quite logical.  You have a well represented German Army already.  So adding in Brits or Yanks presents a much smaller task than all from scratch. 

But Mius I am sure is primary goal one.  And I hope what was started with DLC's for GTOS does the same for that one.  My guess is we see Mius and then its off shoot Nomagahan.  What comes after is a big question mark.  But with 1939 era Japanese included into the mix jumping to 1941/1942 US or British stuff in the Pacific would make a hell of a DLC IMO.  Or China for that matter.  I would love to see something on the Spanish civil war or the winter war in Finland as well.  And some modern stuff in the Iran Iraq war too.  If some sort of MP makes it in... Might make some word of mouth waves across the various gaming forums.

So far the reception on steam of GTOS is pretty positive.  No idea of sales or if Strategy 1st will pay out royalties.  But vary curious what happens there.  That could provide a good revenue stream. 
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Dane49
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« Reply #361 on: March 13, 2014, 12:55:19 PM »

Quote
I'm not surprised it has been talked about before, it is an exciting prospect for those of us in the West and would offer some good variance.
Could you point to the original thread though as I couldn't find anything.

I don't think any one thread was dedicated to this discussion or if it was discussed in this forum or over on SimHQ.
It's been over a year since the topic has been brought up,but basically I would think cost is the overriding factor for not straying too far from what has already been made for this game.

I'm pretty sure it would be a unanimous vote by all players that a west front game would be a welcome addition to this series,but as Andrey has stated in almost every discussion I've read concerning this issue unless someone else will finance the project Graviteam doesn't have the cash to do it themselves since most work would have to be contracted out with cash upfront.

I personally would love to see this game do a Battle of the Bulge campaign around the Le Glieze Stoumont area where Piepers' combat group was destroyed or maybe the St. Vith area.
I think under Graviteams management they would put together a very professional and enjoyable product.
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wodin
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« Reply #362 on: March 13, 2014, 04:08:53 PM »

I'm perfectly happy with the East Fornt..but would like to see it move away from Kharkov. Some Early War and then late War DLC would be great.
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Krabb
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« Reply #363 on: March 18, 2014, 07:57:26 PM »

Hide behind vehicles modifier
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Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #364 on: March 18, 2014, 08:31:14 PM »

WOOOO vary useful that one.   Grin Tongue
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Shadrach
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« Reply #365 on: March 19, 2014, 09:04:14 AM »

WOOOO vary useful that one.   Grin Tongue

Also quite the potential for a hidden AT gun or flanked MG to take out a lot of guys bunched up behind the tanks Smiley

I suppose they would spread out a bit if being fired on, but it's a matter of priorities I guess Cheesy
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lavish
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« Reply #366 on: March 19, 2014, 10:17:01 AM »

Nice feature, but may be questionable tactic: for example diagonal mg fire and nearby explosion may cause lot's of casualties especially from yet unseen enemy. Of course the advantage may be that infantry may remain unseen behind a vehicle and its dust cloud thus hiding their precense or number. Also vehicle may provide good hard cover from distant small arms fire especially when the enemy positions are known and localized on narrow area. But if the shit hits the fan...  Grin
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keeryel
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« Reply #367 on: March 19, 2014, 12:50:01 PM »

Quote
unless someone else will finance the project Graviteam doesn't have the cash to do it themselves since most work would have to be contracted out with cash upfront.

Maybe they can consider crow funding option... I've seen several good projects backed on Kickstarter for quite a lot of money...
Personally I'll bake whatever project Graviteam would launch on Kickstarter or similar...
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Flanker15
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« Reply #368 on: March 19, 2014, 01:14:25 PM »

Crowd funding doesn't work for Ukraine, they have strict laws about it that will eat up most of the profit. 
Crow funding is even less effective.

Also does the AI know how to use the move behind vehicle order?
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keeryel
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« Reply #369 on: March 19, 2014, 01:27:55 PM »

Quote
Crow funding is even less effective.

 Grin Grin Grin
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Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #370 on: March 19, 2014, 02:15:55 PM »

Kickstarter would be perfect way for small scale projects for Gravi.  Except the dumb taxes on foreign money Ukraine takes. Its like 40 percent or something crazy.  So say a US citizen does a successful kick starter for a US based project.  He/she pays the income tax on it.  Then they make the thing.  Then taxes come from sales and profits.  To make the thing you get taxed once.  In the case of Ukraine, its US citizen pays income taxes on raised funds (how much depends on person say 20 percent).  Now you send over sees to Ukraine.  Banks take a percentage...maybe 5 percent i don't know what really.  Then goes to Ukraine.  Ukraine government takes stupid about.  So say you start with 10k.  How much goes to Gravi?  Likely under 5k.   

Now for a western publisher to contract with Gravi they still will run into some of this.  They will mainly get hit with the dumb tax again, but the cost of making the game in Ukraine will offset the cost of making it in the west.  They also are not getting hit with an income tax.  Sure the money is taxed, but not the same way as a private individual.

In the end it will be hard so long as Ukraine retains these regressive taxes for small international business. Or I guess bribe the government official to not pay tax?  LOL  Don't even go there.  But for BIG business this must be happening.   I do not see international big guys paying 40 percent of anything to anybody.   


Maybe a different crazy solution... Raise kick starter money and pay for contractors for work outside Ukraine.  Or pay privately as a 3rd party sending contractors to work in Ukraine but pay from kickstarter funds. Of course that would mean Graivteam was hired for part of a project and not sole provider.  Whole thing is silly. 

Can we just go for now crowd funding will not work so long as taxes remain at retard levels?   
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 02:20:47 PM by Flashburn » Logged

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Missouri_Rebel
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« Reply #371 on: March 20, 2014, 02:35:38 AM »

Great looking feature.
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Flashburn
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« Reply #372 on: March 30, 2014, 12:31:28 AM »

Right now what on my mind about Mius is potential improvements to infantry.  Clearly they now get a command to use tank as cover.  What else?  Tongue  PLease more scout options! 

In GTOS vehicles work pretty well.  Some times they do weird things, but overall pretty good.  Only thing I could see that would be better for vehicles would be a command or automatic thing on reverse slopes where they reverse on the reload and then get back to a firing location. 

Guns and mortars.  Also pretty good.  Sometimes drive you crazy when they get out of nice dug in location to get a shot at a target, but then again sometimes that is exactly what needs to happen. 

Infantry...  IMO the weakest bit.  Its over all good but sometimes you just got to wonder why a lone soldier will see an enemy, run by, go prone, stand up, kneel and then after 90 seconds of this shoot the bastard he saw.  Mean while your watching this tearing your hair out!   Cheesy  Option to do a bounding over-watch by squad.  In gtos they sort of do it within a squad but would be nice if squad A rushes while squad B covers as an option. 

Anyways, cant wait for the thing. 
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lavish
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« Reply #373 on: March 30, 2014, 10:31:34 AM »

more scout options! 
More flexibility = good, more options = bad (see Combat Mission interface  Tongue).

Now we have general orders
- Move: units move to exact location
- Attack: units move to exact location but are allowed to change their movement vector temporarily if engaged
- March: units move to exact location and then take defensive positions
- Defense: just like march, but units do not use any formation modifiers

+ Modifiers that affect how the order is executed

Maybe defend and march could be combined (they are the same thing in essence) and the extra slot could be used to create a new order type:

- Reconnaissance: units move to exact location, but will automatically stop if engaged and maybe disengage back along their movement vector if under medium/heavy fire.

Of course reconnaissance could be included as modifier also, but I rather see it as a general order type, not as modifier.

a command or automatic thing on reverse slopes where they reverse on the reload and then get back to a firing location.

Something like this, yes. I would say that this could be, maybe, included in the march/defend order: units will take defensive positions (cover) using terrain elevation profile as cover. The approximate location (where to defend) for the units is defined by the player by specifying a vector starting point and the units should face and take cover against the direction/area/point that is defined by the vector end point. Result: units optimize their defensive positions, LOF and cover towards that specified vector end point. It is in the game now almost like this, but it needs some tweaks.

Should the tanks move in and out of cover, I don't know. This is a special case and should be thought carefully how to do and include it in the game to be effective and possible to do without extra buttons.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #374 on: March 30, 2014, 02:43:14 PM »

Now we have general orders
- Move: units move to exact location
- Attack: units move to exact location but are allowed to change their movement vector temporarily if engaged
- March: units move to exact location and then take defensive positions
- Defense: just like march, but units do not use any formation modifiers
In Mius only Move/Defence remains.

- Reconnaissance: units move to exact location, but will automatically stop if engaged and maybe disengage back along their movement vector if under medium/heavy fire.
This should happen in any mode, it's not robots Smiley.

Of course reconnaissance could be included as modifier also, but I rather see it as a general order type, not as modifier.
Pure recon its not order and not modifier, its "strategy" for humans.
AI knows about: probe, retreat, move, march, attack, infiltration, siege, but recon as order not have any sence.

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wodin
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« Reply #375 on: March 30, 2014, 02:44:51 PM »

So your saying there are only two orders? Move and defend?

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andrey12345
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« Reply #376 on: March 30, 2014, 02:49:58 PM »

So your saying there are only two orders? Move and defend?



Yes

See facebook info about new iface
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.676068732452404.1073741844.590904460968832&type=1

All orders on circle except bottom one it is moves, bottom is defend.
2 clicks execution for each (point+select).

All testers says that its very good solution. The first time we got about interface features all unanimously in the affirmative  Smiley.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 02:51:32 PM by andrey12345 » Logged

Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
wodin
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« Reply #377 on: March 30, 2014, 08:27:22 PM »

OK cool..I'm still seeing actual different types of move order which is what i was worried about..I thought all there was was going to be was a move order and a defend order, just two orders to choose.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #378 on: March 30, 2014, 09:14:00 PM »

OK cool..I'm still seeing actual different types of move order which is what i was worried about..I thought all there was was going to be was a move order and a defend order, just two orders to choose.

Yes only 2 orders (even one - move, defence is the same as move with some limits), but modifiers give about 500+ variants * ( 3 formation + 3 density + 3 row variants ).
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
lavish
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« Reply #379 on: April 01, 2014, 05:22:01 PM »

If we forget the semantics, "order" is just an algorithm that makes units to move. What is needed is not "recon" or "probe" (they are actions described by human, yes) but simply something that automatically prevents units from getting closer to enemy. At the moment the player needs to stop the unit manually each time, if the intention is not to engage. Maybe an "order" could include a new set of engagement rules that the commander (player) can give to his units. These engagement rules already include "firing blocks" (<---- this is bad english BTW  Tongue), but there could also be the following "engagement modes" that affect unit behaviour, when an enemy contact is made:

In case of enemy contact:
a) Engage and move as ordered. (This is what units always do in the game now)
b) Engage, but stop and do NOT move. Notify the commander (player) and wait for new orders.
c) Engage, but withdraw as soon as possible.
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