Please don't stone me for sacrilege (War Thunders)

[frinik]

This sounds like the Swiss schools of my youth....

[norm]

the vehicles that will be the first avalible: http://warthunder.com/en/news/294-War-Thunder-Tanks-Tech-Trees-en

[frinik]

Great line-up! But I note with dismay that they cloned WoT by adding fictitious( in the sense of production and deployment) tanks like the Tiger II with the KwK46 and the Panther II and on the Soviet side post WW2 tanks JS-3/4 and T54s

This is precisely what I am afraid is coming; a race to the bottom to please the unwashed masses who want to play an fps with arcade tanks and of course all want a Tiger II KwK46 or the T-54 to fight against T26s and Panzer IIIs....

Another question is how realistically are the tanks modelled I am suspicious of the Russian tendency to balance the tanks to avoid giving one side the real life advantage( usually the German ones)  they actually had. Not to mention the monetary impulse to level the playing field to again please the unwashed masses who couldn't care about realism and just want to shoot them tanks!

I'll try it out but I have a nagging feeling that it's just a WoT in disguise.....

[whukid]

Great line-up! But I note with dismay that they cloned WoT by adding fictitious( in the sense of production and deployment) tanks like the Tiger II with the KwK46 and the Panther II and on the Soviet side post WW2 tanks JS-3/4 and T54s

This is precisely what I am afraid is coming; a race to the bottom to please the unwashed masses who want to play an fps with arcade tanks and of course all want a Tiger II KwK46 or the T-54 to fight against T26s and Panzer IIIs....

Another question is how realistically are the tanks modelled I am suspicious of the Russian tendency to balance the tanks to avoid giving one side the real life advantage( usually the German ones)  they actually had. Not to mention the monetary impulse to level the playing field to again please the unwashed masses who couldn't care about realism and just want to shoot them tanks!

I'll try it out but I have a nagging feeling that it's just a WoT in disguise.....

Yes, but a WoT with amazing graphics.

Secretly, I have the same worry. All these Russian Tank games are great, except they seem to be the new propaganda arm for the Kremlin. What better way to indoctrinate the young minds in the West than through their favorite form of entertainment?

[lockie]

This is a great list! Personally, I'd like to test Pz. Kpfw. 35t.

[frinik]

Secretly, I have the same worry. All these Russian Tank games are great, except they seem to be the new propaganda arm for the Kremlin. What better way to indoctrinate the young minds in the West than through their favorite form of entertainment?

That reminds me of an article I read a couple of days ago about the Kremlin which has decided to fund video games that will give a "positive " image of the Soviet/Russian Army". Apparently the Kremlin is upset that games such as Men of War and others which depict the Soviet Army in an unfavourable light. Thus in a country where 35% of the rural population does not have access to modern sewage and usable roads the Kremlin sees fit to invest $ 70 million to support new video games. The first project is about a WW1 Russian aircraft sim which is due next year....

[norm]

Great line-up! But I note with dismay that they cloned WoT by adding fictitious( in the sense of production and deployment) tanks like the Tiger II with the KwK46 and the Panther II and on the Soviet side post WW2 tanks JS-3/4 and T54s

This is precisely what I am afraid is coming; a race to the bottom to please the unwashed masses who want to play an fps with arcade tanks and of course all want a Tiger II KwK46 or the T-54 to fight against T26s and Panzer IIIs....

Another question is how realistically are the tanks modelled I am suspicious of the Russian tendency to balance the tanks to avoid giving one side the real life advantage( usually the German ones)  they actually had. Not to mention the monetary impulse to level the playing field to again please the unwashed masses who couldn't care about realism and just want to shoot them tanks!

I'll try it out but I have a nagging feeling that it's just a WoT in disguise.....

Well, the matchups will depend on what gamemode is being played, in arcade it will be fairly spread (using a teir system) and non-national teams, where as full real and historical battles would have more of a narrow window of combatants meeting each other. And there was a system of historical missions added in the last patch, senarios that only allow the use of aircraft that historically took part in the battle which will carry over to the tanks, so if there is a mission set in kursk, then you could only select vehicles that took part.

They do go from pre-war to Korea with their trees though, so I am curious to see what will be done for the germans at the higher teirs, there will probably be some paper panzers, so that they can be competitive in Arcade, but if you play full-real, and especially the missions listed above, one needn't worry about meeting them. And also rest assured, there are plenty in the war thunder community that are pushing for as few paper panzers as possible, as they don't want to see this become WoT either.

[lockie]

so if there is a mission set in kursk, then you could only select vehicles that took part.

T-70 vs Pz VI      8)

[frinik]

Good to hear Norm!

[norm]

Mmm, here's hopeing it works out well. I have had some problematic match-ups in past with the aircraft, but beta is beta, and they are still working on match making, and as the player base expands, the more numbers playing can only help the matchmaking, And of course, if there are enough of us, we could always set up our own custom battles with each other.

[lockie]

we could always set up our own custom battles with each other.

Does it mean we can play with infantry, AA guns, mortars, mg's etc?

[norm]

All we know will be released at the moment are the vehiles in the two screenies I linked, but it is thought that things like self-propelled arty, half tracks, and armored cars will be added as playable. I doubt there will be playable infantry, but there should be at least some AI, as they already have them in the air portion of the game right now.

[Donken]

Im afraid its just gonna be a World of tanks 2, just another name but better graphics. Not a sim or sim-like at all

[lockie]

I doubt there will be playable infantry, but there should be at least some AI, as they already have them in the air portion of the game right now.

It won't be a tanksim without infantry and other military techniques. Anyway, let's see.

PS
As my point, in case of tanksim, there should the condition of the equivalent.
I.e. we've a battle at Kursk. There are two units available for the users:
- Pz V
- T-70
In SF there is a parameter of the `weight`(how much the tank cost). In case of the `Panther` it equals `800`. In case of the T-70 it cost `250`.
It does, if we paly PzV vs T-70, then user who plays for the T-70 must has under control 800/250~3 tanks.
Finally:
1xPzV vs 3xT-70
And I'd double it:
1xPzV vs 6xT-70

BTW
We could check this condition in SF

[frinik]

Then if it's going to be a WoT "deluxe" I am going to skip it. I think I'll wait for this one instead:
http://awar.su/en/games/iron-clash.html

As well there's an Iron Front 1944 revival project going on which aims to improving the AI, remodeling the vehicles( although they are pretty nice already) , adding new physics and ballistics, adding new content and even upgrading it to Bohemia Interactive's new game engine used for Arma3.....

I'd rather play good WW2 fps shooters which have good armour you can use and play and have user-friendly mission editors than some fancy fps tank game made for teenagers and casual players who just want want big booms, big guns and easy play.

[Czarny_PLone]

Then if it's going to be a WoT "deluxe" I am going to skip it. I think I'll wait for this one instead:
http://awar.su/en/games/iron-clash.html

As well there's an Iron Front 1944 revival project going on which aims to improving the AI, remodeling the vehicles( although they are pretty nice already) , adding new physics and ballistics, adding new content and even upgrading it to Bohemia Interactive's new game engine used for Arma3.....

I'd rather play good WW2 fps shooters which have good armour you can use and play and have user-friendly mission editors than some fancy fps tank game made for teenagers and casual players who just want want big booms, big guns and easy play.

hehe exactly as you said 

Although quietly think of the War Thunder will be slightly surprised 

[Antipov]

My favorite weapon in Red Orc was the Sov AT rifle. I once hid under a KOed PzIII and potted several of his pals with point-blank flank and rear shots. Good hunting. My next favorite was the JS-2 for lobbing 122 HE into the turret ring of astonished Tiger IIs.

I will give this a try. The line-up is definitely to my taste with an excellent variety of early to late E Front. Graphics look good.

What I long to see is a tank sim with controls as reliable as the finest flight sims. If SF's controls were as reliable as those of IL-2 or Rise of Flight, it would be a world-beater, but too many times the controls do not work as they should in a crisis, and you buy the farm. TVT's controls are more reliable, and you are able to do things in it you can't in SF because you have to compensate for a possible control foul-up in SF. SF has TVT beat in the details, and, with the mods, in variety.

We ought to form an SF company, and eat the unwashed alive!

[lockie]

What I long to see is a tank sim with controls as reliable as the finest flight sims.

AFAIK it's possible in `Steal beasts`, but the game has only modern tanks.
SF is completely obsolete and without source code of the game engine, it's impossible to change anything, except adding a new units/objects.

[frinik]

Steel Beasts also is old but unlike SF it's been continuously supported by the developers ( no criticism intended for Graviteam ; they were shafted by their editors in that one...) and upgraded albeit at great expense( in terms of price to have to pay for both the game and updates).....

[Lord_Haw-Haw]

My favorite weapon in Red Orc was the Sov AT rifle. I once hid under a KOed PzIII and potted several of his pals with point-blank flank and rear shots.

Hey Alyosha!, did you make it home?  -reminds me of the russian movie "Ballad of a Soldier".