A bit of depressing news.....

[Panzerfaust]

Seen this over at SimHq from andrey12345:

"we do not see the need for a fourth time to step on the same rake. No more tanksims.

This Panther D from GTOS."

Link:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3844346/Re_GTMF_Graviteam_Tactics_Mius#Post3844346
 

[lockie]

As my point, after `Steel Blaze` tanksim this decision is quite logical. But this is only one `rake`, where are the other three?

[Panzerfaust]

1). T-72 Balkans on Fire (made by Graviteam but I suspect under different company name).
2). Steel Fury Kharkov 1942
3). Steel Armor Blaze of War

I don't think the problems are with the lack of interest in the genre and Graviteam not being able to turn a profit on them, but major problems with publishers.
Cheers

[lockie]

but major problems with publishers.

It means that problem is not tanksim itself. And suppose the fourth rake is `Fall Blau`?

[frinik]

T72 Balkans on Fire or Iron Warriors its other title was made jointly by the Russian company IDDK, which also jointly made T34 versus Tiger, along with the Polish Company Crazy House which made a real dud of game called Tank Combat back in 2005. I think some of the people who worked for IDDK went on to create Graviteam.

No I think we can forget about Graviteam for a future WW2 tank sim. They've clearly said no more sims. The market is too small and the chance of them recouping any of their meager budgets are too slim. I don't blame them!

[whukid]

man, way to kill a perfectly good sunday.

[Panzerfaust]

but major problems with publishers.

It means that problem is not tanksim itself. And suppose the fourth rake is `Fall Blau`?

Andrey is clearly saying there is no sense in making another tank sim for Graviteam to lose money on, hence the fourth rake reference. He might not be including SFK42 Fall Blau in that rake analogy since that title was never released and was somehow tied to SFK42 in regard to how Discus was to pay them, so he might be counting them as one and the same  .  But I do honestly believe T-72 BoF is one of the rakes for the following reasons.
1). Vlad has said it's a Graviteam creation and T-72 BoF is listed on this very homepage in the section of the game titles and programs Graviteam has developed.
2). I do believe Vlad and andrey have said T-72 BoF was another title they never got paid for (or very little).

As for why Graviteam isn't on the T-72 BoF credits I'm not sure. But I do recall Vlad saying they did subcontract work on a title, I just can't recall if it was T-72 BoF, but no matter what the back ground story on T-72 BoF is Vlad see's it as a Graviteam creation. 


I really don't think andrey or Graviteam is saying there's simply no profit for them to develop tank sim's , but Graviteam finding a reputable publisher who's willing to pay them is. So in reality the profit/no profit yardstick for Graviteam to measure against doesn't exist since out of the 3 tank sims Graviteam has made they have seen no sales figures from the publishers let alone any payments from what we have been told.

I really wish Graviteam would just try Kickstarter and self publish a title. Luthier has done it with DCS WWII: Europe 44, raised over $150,000 in the Kickstarter month. And this from a person who the flight sim community mostly holds responsible for the Il-2 Cliffs of Dover fiasco. I don't know if Graviteam could raise $150,000 in Kickstarter because of the genre (could be wrong though), but since Graviteam held onto the rights for the source code and game engine from AP Star and SABoW according to andrey, it probably wouldn't take them long or much cash to make another tank sim. But self publishing is the key, without it Graviteam can definitely expect more of the same from publishers when it comes to profits.
Cheers

[Panzerfaust]

man, way to kill a perfectly good sunday.

Sorry whukid didn't mean to ruin your Sunday. But I wanted to share this here since the statement seemed to go right under the radar at SimHq. I know a lot of folks here (myself included) were hoping for a new tank sim from Graviteam in the near future. Just thought some here might like to know.
Cheers

[whukid]

man, way to kill a perfectly good sunday.

Sorry whukid didn't mean to ruin your Sunday. But I wanted to share this here since the statement seemed to go right under the radar at SimHq. I know a lot of folks here (myself included) were hoping for a new tank sim from Graviteam in the near future. Just thought some here might like to know.
Cheers

Yea, I saw it there too. This is too bad. Tank simulators > Strategy games. If Steel Armor was twice as stable as it currently is (and with less bias towards the T-62), it would be a phenomenal game, even with the lack of playable vehicles. Awh well. hopefully they'll come to their senses and launch a kickstarter for another WW2 simulator. IMO, it could be based off the GTOS engine and campaigns, just with playable panzers

[frinik]

Hi Panzerfaust, like you I also thought and even offered to Iceman or Andrey the idea of a funds raiser on the SIM HQ forum.Didn't get much feedback.However even if we start one we would need to be realistic; I doubt we could raise anything like $ 150 ks. That amount of money you can expect to collect for a new online fps or a mulitplayer sim WW2 or other.However since Graviteam cannot and will not make any MP sim you'd stand to lose 80% of all possible donors. SP WW2 tank sims just don't have a large audience.Nevertheless if at least $ 10 000 were collected that could motivate Graviteam into making one .Not sure though.

[Kyth]

Yeah I think $10 000 might finance a couple of days' worth of development. 

(Just trying to lighten things up),

[Panzerfaust]

Well I just figured since most of the assets were already there for a new WW2 tank sim it wouldn't need anything near 150K of funding to get a finished product out the door for sell to the public, but heck what do I know    After reading some further comments from andrey at SimHq it's become crystal clear Graviteam is out of the tank sim business probably for good. While I don't totally agree with Graviteams new direction or it's withdraw from producing further tank simulators, in the end it's sure not my company and I have no vested interest so my opinions/ideals mean nada. As my Dad use too say 'it is what it is"
Cheers.

[frinik]

Panzi, I am afraid I share your somber but ultimately realistic view: Graviteam has given up on tanksims and will gladly focus on their niche market for RTS.Thye seem to be doing well and have a very loyal clientele. 

[Kyth]

On the bright side! They have bequeathed to us 2 outstanding tank-sims, Steel Fury and Steel Armor. And they are still available for purchase at reasonable prices.

Unless you're holding out for multiplayer, these sims still have great potential for repeated gameplay and modding.

[frinik]

SABoW with its more modern engine and larger maps would offer a good possibility to create a new WW2 mod. I remember Donken posting pics of a Tiger I which he had managed to import into that game.Unfortunately it seems to have been an isolated effort.

[lockie]

these sims still have great potential for repeated gameplay and modding.

IIMHO, I don't think that `SABOW` has a great potential of modding. Developers made everything dependable from them to cut off as more modders as possible. And there is no polygon editor, thus there's no way to develop the game. Of course, there's a possibility to play on the default maps, but sooner or later it'll become boring to the death.

[Panzerfaust]

Panzi, I am afraid I share your somber but ultimately realistic view: Graviteam has given up on tanksims and will gladly focus on their niche market for RTS.Thye seem to be doing well and have a very loyal clientele. 

This is one time I wish so badly that it wasn't so frinik    But there is still someone who we have not heard from yet on this matter. And if and when he chooses to speak to us then we know it's a done deal.
Cheers

[Panzerfaust]

On the bright side! They have bequeathed to us 2 outstanding tank-sims, Steel Fury and Steel Armor. And they are still available for purchase at reasonable prices.

Unless you're holding out for multiplayer, these sims still have great potential for repeated gameplay and modding.

I totally agree with you Kyth and I hope SFK42 and SABoW are like another simulator I play a lot. I started playing B-17 II The Mighty Eighth on Win98 in 2001 and it has worked perfectly (without any crazy workarounds or hacks) through all the sequential Microsoft OS including Win7. My son is getting a new PC in a few month with Win8 and you can bet I'll be trying SFK42, SABoW and B-17 II on it to see if the joy will continue for the next decade.
Cheers   

[Panzerfaust]

these sims still have great potential for repeated gameplay and modding.

IIMHO, I don't think that `SABOW` has a great potential of modding. Developers made everything dependable from them to cut off as more modders as possible. And there is no polygon editor, thus there's no way to develop the game. Of course, there's a possibility to play on the default maps, but sooner or later it'll become boring to the death.

In all honesty lockie if someone could just figure out just how to get the other armored vehicles in SABoW user playable like the Chieftain, Olifant and T-55 (and maybe even the AFV's) I think SABoW could have much more too offer in replayability. SABoW's biggest problem for me (and I'm sure for others too) is there is only one western tank user playable and to compound matters it can only be used in one of the campaigns. While this is true for the T-62 also it's saving grace is the fact it can at least be used in all the campaigns.
Cheers. 

[Antipov]

With just the M60 and T-62 there is the makings for a Sinai 1973 series, and these were the nastiest tank battles in modern history with the only exception being Golan 1973.