Defeat??

[topnik]

I attacked a small enemy forces, destroyed them and captured all the territory, without casualties on my side. Expecting to see a total victory after the battle was over, you can imagine my surprise when I realized I was actualy defeated. 

[andrey12345]

I attacked a small enemy forces, destroyed them and captured all the territory, without casualties on my side. Expecting to see a total victory after the battle was over, you can imagine my surprise when I realized I was actualy defeated. 

Yes of course defeat - you simple waste time attacks 5 vs 1 with no territory achievements.

[topnik]

Yes of course defeat - you simple waste time attacks 5 vs 1 with no territory achievements.

Following that logic you can say that battle of Stalingrad, Berlin, etc. were great German victories. Soviets only wasted time against outnumbered enemy. 

I understand the game consideres the initial strengths to determine the battle outcome, but territorial gains and destruction of enemy forces, no mater how small they were, should count for something.

Nice picture BTW. 

[andrey12345]

Following that logic you can say that battle of Stalingrad, Berlin, etc. were great German victories. Soviets only wasted time against outnumbered enemy. 

This does not apply to an operational+ level, its only tactical sence. In operations applicable other score calculation system.
But in Berlin and Stalingrad there was not 1 vs 5 ratio and there were some territorial gains in our case it was not.

I understand the game consideres the initial strengths to determine the battle outcome, but territorial gains and destruction of enemy forces, no mater how small they were, should count for something.

Yes, but in your case no gains and even smaller than half enemies have been eliminated.

[topnik]

Following that logic you can say that battle of Stalingrad, Berlin, etc. were great German victories. Soviets only wasted time against outnumbered enemy. 

This does not apply to an operational+ level, its only tactical sence. In operations applicable other score calculation system.
But in Berlin and Stalingrad there was not 1 vs 5 ratio and there were some territorial gains in our case it was not.

Do you get victory points for winning the tactical battle? Besides points you get for capturing territory and key points.

I understand the game consideres the initial strengths to determine the battle outcome, but territorial gains and destruction of enemy forces, no mater how small they were, should count for something.

Yes, but in your case no gains and even smaller than half enemies have been eliminated.

But I did get territorial gains, which was my goal. Therefore I won. 

[andrey12345]

Do you get victory points for winning the tactical battle? Besides points you get for capturing territory and key points.

No. In our case you get points from capture territory (0%) and casualties (some small), but all this degrade due to that fact what your troops overforced at battle start.

But I did get territorial gains, which was my goal. Therefore I won. 

Your statistic says that you dont get any territorial gains. Territory after battle the same (16 points) as the territory before battle. No gains, sorry.

[topnik]

Do you get victory points for winning the tactical battle? Besides points you get for capturing territory and key points.

No. In our case you get points from capture territory (0%) and casualties (some small), but all this degrade due to that fact what your troops overforced at battle start.

Thanks! I never fully understood how the victory points work.

But I did get territorial gains, which was my goal. Therefore I won. 

Your statistic says that you dont get any territorial gains. Territory after battle the same (16 points) as the territory before battle. No gains, sorry.

Hm... You're right about the statistic, but I was sure I've captured the entire map after the enemy retreated. Could it be that the statistics are wrong? IIRC the enemy controled two squares before the battle, and none after...

[andrey12345]

Hm... You're right about the statistic, but I was sure I've captured the entire map after the enemy retreated. Could it be that the statistics are wrong?

Maybe, but to figure out this fact needed a screenshot of the minimap (map) or the whole landscape with the enabled flags at the end of the battle, in the statistics mode.

IIRC the enemy controled two squares before the battle, and none after...

Maybe, but is not the question  , but rather are you controlled them at the end of the battle?

P.S. In any case its a bad idea to attack by overpowered forces especially unimportant territory (no key points on the operational phase), game in any case threat this fact in favor of the enemy

[Flashburn]

Hm... You're right about the statistic, but I was sure I've captured the entire map after the enemy retreated. Could it be that the statistics are wrong?

Maybe, but to figure out this fact needed a screenshot of the minimap (map) or the whole landscape with the enabled flags at the end of the battle, in the statistics mode.

IIRC the enemy controled two squares before the battle, and none after...

Maybe, but is not the question  , but rather are you controlled them at the end of the battle?

P.S. In any case its a bad idea to attack by overpowered forces especially unimportant territory (no key points on the operational phase), game in any case threat this fact in favor of the enemy

Andrey, the ai are all to often attacking known forces with crazy low about of troops.  The number of times I have been attacked with ai forces with few infantry and no heavy weapons is quite often.  And the ai knows what I have as not the 1st battle. 

[topnik]

Maybe, but to figure out this fact needed a screenshot of the minimap (map) or the whole landscape with the enabled flags at the end of the battle, in the statistics mode.

I'm affraid I don't have the statistics map screenshot, but I have operational map, before and after the battle.

Before: (the battle on the eastern edge)


After:

P.S. In any case its a bad idea to attack by overpowered forces especially unimportant territory (no key points on the operational phase), game in any case threat this fact in favor of the enemy

Well ,yeah... but I couldn't help it  . Besides, most of my forces just happened to be there, mostly some conscripts, repair crews and supplies. My attack forces were two tanks and cavalry platoon. It was just a moping up operation of enemy pocket, a leftover from previous battles...

[topnik]

Andrey, the ai are all to often attacking known forces with crazy low about of troops.  The number of times I have been attacked with ai forces with few infantry and no heavy weapons is quite often.  And the ai knows what I have as not the 1st battle. 

Agreed. And this is clearly shown on the maps above. The AI attacked me 4 times at the same place. And what started as a formidable force was slowly reduced to a single Tiger tank. But AI keeps coming. Considering their losses, one would expect them to remain in defensive.

Well at least I had a chance to fight some great defensive battles. And I have a completely trashed village, littered with destroyed tanks to show. 

[andrey12345]

Now automatic key points (small flags) in tactical battles have wide range of weights (from 1 to 1/255).
This leads to such consequences as here you have on statistics - you attack a territory completely unimportant, and in fact it is not involved in the calculations (be 16 and after battle +1 unimportant square and then still 16), because of the extremely low weight (near to 1/255). And as result you get a defeat due to no territorial gains.

In next next patch, weight range will be limited, and several such questionable results will be less likely.

[topnik]

Thanks for the explanation! I'm glad you'll sort it out, even though it's not much of an issue.

[Flashburn]

Its more of an amusing issue. 

[topnik]

Its more of an amusing issue. 

Yeah, I'll almost miss it once it's gone.