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Author Topic: Next mission report - 'Panthers at Prokhorovka'  (Read 12713 times)
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frinik
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« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2014, 09:52:21 PM »

The KV-2 is awful high silhouette, low ammo count, low reload....Horrible tank!
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whukid
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2014, 11:21:26 PM »

Absolutely right!

Here's an interesting short myth busting article about Kursk!

http://www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm

Really good, but the last point kind've annoys me, as does number 7. Model's forces were withdrawn and sent to Italy after the Sicily invasion. The "insignificant landing by a couple of British and American Divisions" caused the Italian government to fold, leaving the southern German and Austrian borders open to Allied assault from the air and ground, not to mention by Italian partisans.

As for the Germans never being able to win at Kursk, the German 24th Panzer Armee was never committed, being held in reserve by Manstein and ultimately not allowed to participate in the battle by Hitler. At the time of the ridiculously one-sided slaughter of Prokhorovka, there was nothing behind the 7th Tank Guards army. The 3rd and 4th Tank armies were over a hundred miles away, and the ground between the Psel and Kursk was the perfect tank country that Manstein was craving. Had the Panzers of the 24th Panzer Armee been unleashed, History might be very different right now. 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 11:24:07 PM by whukid » Logged

frinik
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2014, 05:01:33 AM »

Good point about Italy Whu.I also agree with you that the author was overly dismissive of the Anglo-American threat to Germany's underbelly.With Italy's quick collapse the Allies could basically have gone all the way to Northern Italy before the Germans would have been able to stop them had they not put the necessary forces to stall them.

As for your second point about the 24th panzer Armee even had Manstein been allowed to unleash it and punch a hole through Soviet defences any success the Germans would have won they would simply not have been able to regain the initiative fior long.The time had passed, the asymetry between Soviet and Allied forces and Germany's decreasing resources was become greater every day.Losing 2 million men between July 1942 to July 1943 ( including 300 000 POWS and MIA at Stalingrad & in North Africa + 490 000 KIA and 1.1 million WIA) and the burden of holding on to 3.5 million sq metres of occupied land put such a strain on Germany that it did not have the reserve required to exploit any breakthrough and win the war in the East.By August 1943 it was clear that Germany could delay the outcome but not change it.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 04:43:39 AM by frinik » Logged
whukid
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2014, 02:26:47 AM »

As for your second point about the 24th panzer Armee  even had Manstein been allowed to unleash it and opu7nch a hole through Soviet defences any suvccess the Germans would have won they would simoply not have bene able to regain the initiative fior long.The time had passed, the asymetry between Soviet and Allied forces and Germany's decreasing resources was become greater every day.Losing 2 million men between July 1942 to July 1943 ( including 300 000 POWS and MIA at Stalingrad & in North Africa + 490 000 KIA and 1.1 million WIA) and the burden of holding on to 3.5 million sq metres of occupied land put such a strain on Germany that it did not have the reserve required to exploit any breakthrough and win the war in the East.By August 1943 it was clear that Germany could delay the outcome but not change it.

I think the Germans would've had more problems with Hitler's grand schemes than their own logistical issues. I'm not quite sure what it is about Officers and Politicians, but they seem to live in a fantasy world.
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Tanker
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BRING BACK MARKERS


« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2014, 04:44:08 AM »

Kind of a broad statement if you are basing it on the example of Hitler.  Also you need to walk a mile in their shoes before you can form a real judgement.
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Bring back 3D markers!
whukid
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« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2014, 04:04:10 AM »

Also you need to walk a mile in their shoes before you can form a real judgement.

lol
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