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Author Topic: making a mod  (Read 3589 times)
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wildman
Oberstleutnant
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Posts: 113



« on: July 11, 2014, 09:59:48 AM »

Firstly it must be stated I have never modded anything in my life before and I have zero experience with coding.

I saw the stickied tutorial topic and read through it and it looks like it could be something I might be able to tackle with a little help and guidance and a lot of time but I can't find how to make models etc.

Do you guys use any particular 3rd party software for creating your models? is there a guide somewhere that I can't find? if so please link for me. Also if anyone has experience of this and could offer me some advice or assistance that would be very much appreciated.

I'd like to start small, maybe make a vehicle and a new infantry unit and get them imported into the game just to see how it goes. Then if all goes well maybe create a few new models and make a single battle mod.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 10:34:13 AM by wildman » Logged
Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
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Posts: 2412



« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2014, 10:37:14 AM »

YEs you need a 3rd model software to make models. 

Gtos models where made with studio 3dmax 2008.  Max is stupid expensive. So you dont want to go that way. 

Blender is free.  I have messed around in it but am so use to max it just ticked me off.  to learn to make models, unwrap and texture them takes time.  And can be quite alot of time.  If you take to it, its like crack.  I would try blender.  It can make nice models.  But you will be investing a ton of time to learn to do it well.  Game mod assets are made out there a plenty in blender.  Some real nice stuff has been made.  BUT.......  most folks who start out totally do not understand the basic fundamentals of models for games.  IE.... they make something like a gun with 30000 triangles and no LODS.  Which is totally insane.  Or go make a tank with 500000 triangle and expect that to work well in a real time rendered environment.  It does not....

Photoshop is the most useful program EVER to make textures.  It costs money.  Most use the thing to just mess around in photos.  That is like 1/20 of what it can actually do.  Freaking great program that keeps getting better.  GIMP is a free program that I also sometimes use for certain things.  It is good enough to make do quite alot of stuff. 


Here is what I would suggest...  Get blender and gimp.  You will be watching alot of internet videos to get how the hell to do anything in it.  Then pick a vary simple item to make.  Like make piece of soldier gear.  Even a simple low poly gun.  Learn to model.  Look at similar model in game and look at how many triangles where used to make it.  You want to stay close to that.  A GTOS gun is between 500 and 1000 triangles.  So DON'T make a 30000 triangle lugar.    You then need to learn how to unwrap it.  This is setting up how a texture is layed out.  It can be a bit painful and is my least liked thing about making models.  Its freaking annoying.  Then you make the texture that is applied to the model.  Generally the vehicles use a 2048 X 2048 pixel texture for tanks.  Guns I think are 512 x 512.  This is low poly modeling for games.  You want to use the smallest amount of everything that looks good.  The game has to  render LOTS of this stuff.  You go crazy with triangles and texture size, the game will run like crap.  Does not matter what game it is. 

Ok... then....  You have a nice piece of gear or a gun with a texture on it.  NOW...you need to get it ready for the game.  The game uses LOD (level of detail) So your piece of gear in game is actually 2 or 3 models.  Depending on how far away from the camera it will use lower polygon models to render.  This is VARY important for a game the size gtos.  So you either make 2 or 3 models from scratch using the same texture or you make the highest poly first and then "optimize" it by removing unneeded triangles and vertexes that would could not tell where ever there if the model was a set distance from the camera.  So a 1000 triangle gun a 0 meters the model is DUH...1000 triangles.  At 50 meters distance you need to make the 2nd LOD be say 600 triangles.  At 200 meters it might need to be 300.  Etc.   Not set in stone. 

Well there's more.  but that is the basics in 2 paragraphs.  But the important part for the budding model maker for games is....  Use the least amount of everything that looks good.  Where every new mod guy that makes something totally screws up is not understanding this.  Why so many mods run like crap.  A usual FPS sort of game the studio makes a 2000 to 4000 triangle gun now a days.  But some ding bat makes some monstrosity 35000 triangle gun with no LOD's.  Its generally fine if only a few are on screen (its wasteful but runs).  But total HORRIBLE fps killer if like 40 are on screen.   Maybe even 4.  Cheesy  Have to learn to get the max out of geometry and fake 3d space where ever possible with textures. And you generally get 3 types of texture to do this.  Defuse (normal color texture), normal maps (they fake 3rd look on flat surfaces), and specular maps (show light and dark areas with light). 

Ok I set out the basics.  But dont worry about anything other than make a nice model at first.  then worry about getting it ready for textures.  Then texturing it.  Then making the model ready for game (LOD's) and finally whatever rigging needs to happen so the game knows WTF to do with it. 
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wildman
Oberstleutnant
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Posts: 113



« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2014, 10:54:12 AM »

Thanks Flashburn. That's a really great reply and very helpful.

Already have photoshop so I am now downloading Blender and Gimp. I will take your advice and approach this step by step, watch a load of tutorials and try to get to grips with basic model making before learning to render etc.

Btw I looked at 3D Max out of interest  Shocked LOL nope.



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Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
*****
Posts: 2412



« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2014, 11:14:43 AM »

Thanks Flashburn. That's a really great reply and very helpful.

Already have photoshop so I am now downloading Blender and Gimp. I will take your advice and approach this step by step, watch a load of tutorials and try to get to grips with basic model making before learning to render etc.

Btw I looked at 3D Max out of interest  Shocked LOL nope.






tell me about it....

Love the program.  But unless my VA appeal comes back this decade and I get back pay for like years I am hosed on getting a newer version.  Something I really want to invest in.   Had a project fall threw that might have gone commercial beginning of the year due to version issues.   Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry  Hard when your a banged up vet trying to get on with life.  Not my damned fault uncle sam sent me to a stupid war and I got hurt.  Sorry. Did not mean to dump that.  But that is on my mind right now.   Roll Eyes   Only way I can afford newer commercial software until I am totally back on my feet.  Then probably move closer to Vancover BC.  And look for work over yonder.   Or back to Seattle.  But 1st deal with the EVIL Veteran Administration for yet more years.   

Funny about the BC thing.  Seems the universe is sending me that way.   Had a guy claiming to be a game dev up yonder poking at me.  Seems he likes what Gravi does and has seen a few of my things and like em.  Appeared to be a win win thing as another on the same page as to what makes a good game.  And my my.  Seems game dev is booming up there.  They advertise in Bellingham, Wa.  which is about 50 minutes North of me.  right now could not handle a 2 hour commute with my destroyed back.  But 1 hour from there?  Ya...  So long as the damned VA gets off its duff and fixes my crap.  4 years of back (HA pun pay).  Its not much, but this close to the line is enough.  Be funny if that happens.  Go over to Relic and punch those guys in the face over company for hero's.

I hope that was |-| that much amusing. 
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Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
*****
Posts: 2412



« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2014, 11:21:14 AM »

OPH... I forgot.  If you have PS don't bother with gimp. Gimps a good little program but PS is better.  What version of PS you have?  Starting in OLD I think 7 they introduced some basic painting tools.  Those, when used right work vary vary well for making textures.  The newer CS's are even of course, better.  Although the weird basic 3d aspect is vary worthless as of now.   But it funny to use to with Height maps to get a basic idea of what is *might* look like.  LOL. 

Making good normal or bump maps in gray scale with layers in PS is freaking awesome and powerful.   I love normal maps.  I have no idea why.
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wildman
Oberstleutnant
*****
Posts: 113



« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2014, 11:40:10 AM »

sorry to hear about your troubles, I hope the VA does right by you soon.

I have Photoshop Elements 12 although I have barely used it since buying it and have never created textures with it. As I said before I am really interested in learning about this stuff but right now my experience and knowledge is precisely zilch.

However I am a fairly quick learner and never give up so hopefully in time and with some help from guys like you I should be able to make my vision a reality.  Wink

I am very excited, it's something I have wanted to get into for a very long time but never really found anything that inspired or motivated me to get started. This game has provided that much needed impetus and so the first steps of this long road are underway.  Smiley
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 11:46:55 AM by wildman » Logged
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