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Author Topic: Need some Su-2 (M-88b) experts!  (Read 40103 times)
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #60 on: July 16, 2014, 06:46:58 PM »

Wish I had a DLC or something I never have played for GTOS right about now.  Could only handle 2 hours of rivets today. MUIHAHAH
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FB_AGA
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« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2014, 08:03:14 PM »

Hehe.  Angry

Have received information about SU - 2 bomb loads in the may 42 (Kharkov front /Taranovka and so on/) and June-July 42 (around Volokonovka and Shilovo polygon). This plane s*cks.

No conspiracy theories why it's production was ceased. Average bombload for 1 plane was around 200 KG (from 171 to 214) ... while IL-2 including RS-82 around 514 KG at the same time ... Don't know why but it carried 3 bombs on the average (100 - 25 KG), looks like all internal. May be external decreased speed to much, in time of Luftwaffe superiority it was impermissible.  Undecided
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2014, 08:33:46 PM »

Ya, this is conclusion I am coming too. 

It did not have enough powerful engine.  Its attack profile has it right where fighters could get at it easy.  So if you load it to max pay load you are a going quite slow.  Explains all the things I read about crews stripping the plane of everything to include some of the armor plate. 


But some aspects of the plane are pretty good.  But getting to the front and having a low payload even in a shallow dive is just not going to be that effective.  Only 7.62 machine guns so strafing many sorts of targets is pointless. Had they stuck the engine they wanted in there it probably would have been more effective.  Still issues with bombing, but at least a higher speed that should be just below 1941/1942 speeds of things like ME109. 

In game terms I think it should be a good air craft.  Its not overly powerful.  I think IL2 is less effective than it should be.  For strafing the FW190 right now is probably the best plane in the game. I don't think that is quite right.  The Il2 should at least be as effective at that as the FW.  Only also with rockets and bombs.   

The other function of the SU2 was as a spotter plane.  But air craft cant spot or call arty on targets.  Which is to bad....maybe. The Su2 did have a good radio for a reason. 
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2014, 12:38:34 AM »

Now I am thinking about a FLAK 38.....  I do have some good data but anyone have anything good?  Perhaps better than mine? 

Probably be another at least 20 hours of work before this Su2 is flying around GTOS. Maybe more maybe less if I get sick of it and go good enough.   Lips Sealed 

But something to shoot down the su2.... ya...

While I am asking... the 37mm aa gun of the Red Army too if anyone has info...I have none.  But that thing is kind of big.  Not sure it fits well with what GTOS or mius is. 
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Flanker15
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« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2014, 05:34:31 AM »

Mius was Russian offensive so 37mm probably only on the back of Gaz if at all.
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FB_AGA
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« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2014, 02:09:02 PM »

No, a lot of Russian AA was captured by German counter offensive (of the 2nd SS Corps), there are many photos, somewhere.

I am not sure I have anything about Flaks...I have to check or to look through russian internet segment.

I can say that in the July's Mius Soviets have a lot of different AA guns. As I remember a few mech brigades were equiped with german 20mm guns. Also there were 37mm AA, 25mm AA and 20mm SHVAKs on tripods (as I remember) instead of 12.7 DSHK.


PS. 2 Flashburn, well ... I have checked the aviation of one possible polygon which could be after Mius and summer Taranovka ... it is the same bomb division like was on the Mius .... there were 10 A-20G ... and 21 A-20B ... but it looks like Red Airforce was not going to use A20G as ground attack plane and possibly all 20mm were removed as no 20 mm was spent ... moreover defenetly all A20B had russian weapons and bombs ... about G don't know.

In winter Taranovka, Sokolovo and so on there were so called B-3, as I understand it is Boston -3. They were prepaired for the Great Britain but were sent to USSR. Red Air Force liked it for it's speed and big bombload. It's said that they were unreachable for german fighters above 4500 meters cause of their speed and manoeuvrability ... so they were mainly used to attack targeds such as airfields and railroad stations in the rear areas ... not forward positions.
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2014, 03:01:36 PM »

Now this is interesting... 

25mm aa gun ?  And 20mm Shvak's?  I honestly have no idea bout these.. 

A smaller cannon than 37mm (that thing IS pretty big!)  makes more logical since to me.  I have no idea what those even look like....
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FB_AGA
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« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2014, 06:02:53 PM »

Now this is interesting... 

25mm aa gun ?  And 20mm Shvak's?  I honestly have no idea bout these.. 

A smaller cannon than 37mm (that thing IS pretty big!)  makes more logical since to me.  I have no idea what those even look like....

25 aa: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B7%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%86%D0%B0_1940_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0_%2872-%D0%9A%29

Sorry it is in russian but you can google translate it. It was not widely used in 42 but in late 43 started slowly displace a 37mm. In my opinion it is better to have 37mm one in the game cause it was more frequent while 3D model looks the same.

20mm shavak ... well it seems a local production. Either they have taken a few pieces from river boats or put plane's shvaks on tripod from DSHKA or other homemade...
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Flanker15
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« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2014, 02:53:46 AM »

It looks like the normal is too pronounced?
On another sims R/G normal the red/green ratio was 157/186 on the wing 239/188 on the rivets.
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2014, 05:41:55 AM »

Oh ya.  Right now the normals are vary much "under construction"  Grin  Will not be perfect right, but I hope a decently close within what can be done with a low poly model and a 2048 x 2048.  One day I hope to do something where I can actually run up to the subject, crawl threw it, measure it and all that.  FOr now...its the internet and hope its close.  Which usually is in the ball park.  Couple months ago I ran across an M38a1 jeep as well as a m40 recoiless rifle.  I was pretty surprised how close I was to right.  What I mean is that areas I had no reference for I had ended up guessing pretty close  to right.  Certainly enough to pass the it looks right test.

Once I get everything that will work in the normals I will mess around with the values and get it closer to right.  Alas some places i did not leave quite enough space or simply not enough to go super duper detail crazy.   On the cowling for instance, due to how I relaxed the uvw mapping and the size issues I will not be able to do some stuff I wanted too.  =(  but should be plenty good enough for a plane zipping around GTOS sky's.  After all...it is a 9000 triangle model.  Not a 200000 DCS deal.   Tongue  But I like low poly stuff.  Its an interesting challenge.   Lower does not mean easier.  Just more thought involved.  Well enough about all that.   Tongue
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2014, 12:53:59 AM »

Have had no time to work on this over the weekend alas.  But thought up another vehicle to maybe consider at some point.  The su57.  Where any of these things around areas of Gtos polygons I wonder...  Hmmm  maybe not.. looks like most DID end up on the Ukrainian front, but not till 1944.  Poop.  Well sort of poop. 
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FB_AGA
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« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2014, 07:58:55 AM »

Su57 if we talk about US T48 was used substantially in the summer 44 - 45.
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2014, 08:12:43 AM »

Ya not exactly going to work...for now. 
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Flanker15
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« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2014, 08:13:51 AM »

su-76?
Hmmmmmm?
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2014, 08:25:37 AM »

Looking for things I have at least some reference on.  The Su57 is just a M3 GMC with a way better gun.  SU76 might be in the works for all I know.  But the big thing is zero reference sitting around.  I am clearly still looking for something to go off and make later.  SDKFZ 222 is also a possible. 

I considered a willy jeep or gaz 64 but more in an armored vehicle mood.  An m3 lee with cast hull has be interested but so few made and I seriously do not think any of those made it to the eastern front.  Hell i am not sure they made it to any front really.  Maybe a church hill tank?  Oh hell I don't have any idea what vehicles where in the area of either GTOS or Mius.   You know, something that fits in and not totally out of place..
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FB_AGA
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« Reply #75 on: July 21, 2014, 09:11:48 AM »

Sdkfz 222 exactly what is needed for Mius'43. The hill 277.9 (Saur-Mogila) was defended by the 116 aufklarung abteilung, mainly 4x4 armour cars and a few 8x8. As I know Graviteam don't have resources to do it.

Right now there is no maps in the game for M3 Lee and Churchil. However, both of them are right for the LongStopHill (Tunis 42 & 43).

GTOS MIUS, what was there but what as I know is not planned by the Graviteam:

PZ4H + different variants of Pz4G with shilds.
PZ3M + Pz3L with shields / Pz3N without shilds
STUG3G (with and without shilds)
Sdkfz 222 and variants
Sdkfz 250/7 & 251/16 and different commanders variants with antennas.
German Flaks 20mm (single/quad towed and mobile) + 88mm
PAK43/41
Soviet 37mm AA gun.

Probablly I've missed something.


Su - 76 is vital for the Taranovka aug/sept 43 ... may be Devs will do it.

Jeeps any is also welcom as towing cars. Prime mover for germans (like Sd.Kfz.10) too.
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FB_AGA
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« Reply #76 on: July 21, 2014, 09:19:38 AM »

Also Grille(Bison 43 variant) , wespe, hummel for SS.
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #77 on: July 21, 2014, 07:05:06 PM »

Sdkfz 222 exactly what is needed for Mius'43. The hill 277.9 (Saur-Mogila) was defended by the 116 aufklarung abteilung, mainly 4x4 armour cars and a few 8x8. As I know Graviteam don't have resources to do it.

Right now there is no maps in the game for M3 Lee and Churchil. However, both of them are right for the LongStopHill (Tunis 42 & 43).

GTOS MIUS, what was there but what as I know is not planned by the Graviteam:

PZ4H + different variants of Pz4G with shilds.
PZ3M + Pz3L with shields / Pz3N without shilds
STUG3G (with and without shilds)
Sdkfz 222 and variants
Sdkfz 250/7 & 251/16 and different commanders variants with antennas.
German Flaks 20mm (single/quad towed and mobile) + 88mm
PAK43/41
Soviet 37mm AA gun.

Probablly I've missed something.


Su - 76 is vital for the Taranovka aug/sept 43 ... may be Devs will do it.

Jeeps any is also welcom as towing cars. Prime mover for germans (like Sd.Kfz.10) too.


You sure about the skirts and stuff for panzers not being in the works?  At least the 3N seems to have one version without its side skirts.  That seems like a vary doable thing adding in the skirts for various panzer 3 and 4 models. 
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FB_AGA
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« Reply #78 on: July 21, 2014, 07:20:32 PM »

I don't know, I don't have any inside info.

What we have now in the game - Pz3N with shields (skirts), what is wrong for the winter'43, at least for the 6th and 11th PzD as I have photos where they are without them. While in the PZ4G' photos of different types, they are as without shields, as with turret skirts and so on ...

In the Mius there were a real mix, for instanse stug3G of separate battalions without shield, stugs of the 2nd SS Corps with shields.


Hmm, I see Pz3N only with skirts in my version. I've not seen any ingame picture of them without them skirts ... maybe I've missed something ...
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 07:22:37 PM by FB_AGA » Logged
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Generalfeldmarschall
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« Reply #79 on: July 21, 2014, 10:25:08 PM »

Hmm I saw a panzer 3 N with turret bits but no side skirts.  Not sure where I saw that.  But certainly welcome. 
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