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Author Topic: Finally some progress and then some not...  (Read 8550 times)
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DDTank
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Posts: 44


« on: February 07, 2015, 10:56:21 PM »

After reading some of the guides on here and the Steam forum, I finally managed to make some progress after understanding more about the importance of coms etc.
Playing Fall Blau / Volokonovka as the German side I had a really good second turn, the one where the "new" Marders arrive (is it me or do they actually look newer than some of the other models in the game...?). I set them up together with a 4 gun AT battery and from the top of the map arrived a mixture of Soviet tanks - I think they were T-34, KV-1 and a T-60. Expecting to lose most of my units, I was amazed to see them knock out every tank that appeared with no casualties at all!
A turn or so later I faced a load of Stuart light tanks with infantry and made similar progress though not quite as good and the two that remained turned up towards the end to create carnage amongst my guns when they slipped in.
Something I did not understand in all this: one of the 3 Panzerjaeger kept "We can't continue to fight" and I had to keep turning him around and putting him back in position. I don't know what his problem was, his morale etc all seemed to be okay but he didn't want to know.
At the end though all I got was a Minor Defeat, I think because I spent too much time around the school clearing trenches (using Panzerjaeger as artillery). I took too many turns doing that and I did not make any progress across the map during them. I am not very good at attacking and prefer defending, which I like to do in the quick battles and that is where I learnt a lot by setting up defences then playing them over and over giving the enemy slightly stronger units each time so I can see the limitations and tactics required.
Can't wait for my new NCIX PC Explorer R2 Tier 3 to arrive next week and re-install everything as my Dell laptop is not really up to it!
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DDTank
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Posts: 44


« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2015, 12:56:39 AM »

After playing Fall Blau / Volokonovka as the German side with some success at least (other post), I am now playing as Russian. The first turn involves defending from the German attack, which includes artillery and howtizers. It is possible to take out the guns and the half track (which I assume contains the artillery spotter) but even after managing that and trying various defence positions, I seem to get overrun by enemy infantry and pretty much anhilhilated.
Is this the right place to ask for help on ideas to try and survivie the turn with at least some forces left?
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Dane49
Generalfeldmarschall
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Posts: 1479


« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2015, 03:10:58 PM »

You need to set up your defense in depth and not try to put everything on the front line. The Germans bring alot of fire power to breach the line. Your job as the Russians is to delay the advance until reinforcements arrive and make the German assault as costly as possible.

In the real battle the Soviets lost here too, but were able to inflict substantial casualties on the Germans.
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Krabb
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Chekist with a Mauser


« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2015, 04:20:31 PM »

I've merged the threads.

Something I did not understand in all this: one of the 3 Panzerjaeger kept "We can't continue to fight" and I had to keep turning him around and putting him back in position. I don't know what his problem was, his morale etc all seemed to be okay but he didn't want to know.
It was damaged or maybe the commander was killed. In this case units will "We can't continue to fight" and try to disengage and retreat. You can hold them by giving the Stop order, or another order, but this isn't for long.

At the end though all I got was a Minor Defeat, I think because I spent too much time around the school clearing trenches (using Panzerjaeger as artillery). I took too many turns doing that and I did not make any progress across the map during them. I am not very good at attacking and prefer defending, which I like to do in the quick battles and that is where I learnt a lot by setting up defences then playing them over and over giving the enemy slightly stronger units each time so I can see the limitations and tactics required.
You are right, Minor Defeat is due to slow attacking. Each key point held adds some amount of victory points each turn. So, your main goal in operations is to keep your key points, and to capture the enemy's (or "neutral" if there are any). Keep constant pressure on the enemy.
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"Please adopt a good faith attitude, Andrey. After 2+ years it's about time you did."
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DDTank
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Posts: 44


« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2015, 01:39:59 AM »

I tried another approach that seemed to be working quite well to start with: On the first turn I pulled all the troops out as far as they could go to the edgeo of their map and just hid them for the hour of the turn, set on hold fire. Towards the end the enemy soldiers began to scout where they were and what worked even better was that they then started shelling themselves with artillery!
After that I was able to have them meet up with their incoming tanks but then things all went wrong again. I had two units of tanks and one of field guns take out their 3 Marders (net loss to me of one AT unit). All well and good but on the Operation screen for the next turn I found my two tanks platoons (or companies or whatever) had been "routed" and were no longer in the game...
On the next turn I received some supply and conscript troops, which I still have not worked out what I am supposed to do with. I would have thought I could assign a commander to them to make them useful and I don't see them automatically filling the gaps of casualties in other units.
So I have very few useful units in play so on balance, it looks like I am starting this one over (again)...
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Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
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Posts: 2412



« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2015, 06:38:07 AM »

The unit became routed as you have to retain the squares where the units started.  If not they will move if they can to an unoccupied square or become routed.  Which simply means that sooner or later they will make their way back to your lines and become active again.  I prefer having units routed than being destroyed and often do the hide out somewhere a do a last 10 minute dash to retain or regain a flag or 2 around the map.  A bit cheap, but works if the ai moved off somewhere after capping an area.  Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.  But Ill get those units back in a few turns which is better than wiped out. 
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Yabba dabba do
DDTank
Hauptmann
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Posts: 44


« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2015, 03:29:13 PM »

Yes, I understand the routing thing as part of a retreat but here I accepted the enemy ceasefire after decimating their Marders. The only thing I can think of is there was an area nearby that was isolated and with no units on it but it did have an enemy flag so maybe I was too close to that and it figured I was in enemy territory and that caused it. It's weird sometimes (often!).
On the other hand, other things that happen are quite amazing. Just before this battle kicked off there was a big rain storm and I could hear the usual clanking of the vehicles but there was nothing to see. Then the rain suddenly stopped and I saw that those Marders had passed by about 50m from my guns but nothing happened as they couldn't see each other in the bad weather. Then it all went off when it cleared! That sort if detail in the AI logic keeps me playing.
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DDTank
Hauptmann
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Posts: 44


« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2015, 11:36:58 PM »

To the progress, after several re-starts I just completed the first Taranovka campaign i.e. as German and got a very good Victory score.
Not sure how hard this one is thought to be but I was quite pleased at the end of it. I had control of all the big keypoints and there were only a few small ones left with the Russian flag in the bottom right of the map. I even managed to save most of the units surrounded at the start. They managed to avoid contact in their first battle and when they did get involved in a later round they did some pretty good close range damage against incoming tanks (Matildas aren't they?). I kept them all in the same patch of woods and once the tanks come in they got more vulnerable and before then all the Bren carriers could easily get taken out just by gunfire from a distance.
They key to it all was to keep the forces moving evenly and together i.e. not letting any get strung out on their own and to maintain a fairly straight battle front without too many pockets in it, which limits the number of squares that can get involved in a battle. Also, to try and evenly mix up infantry units with field guns and armour (when it eventually became available) so they could cover each other.
In the later rounds the enemy was on the run and I was able to just "blitzkrieg" them with a wave of tanks and infantry in line formation assaulting one keypoint after another. In one battle I took more than a dozen prisoners; about 8 came from one unit alone that was entrenched but got totally overwhelmed. At the very end most units were pretty low on ammo (I am not sure I have yet figured out resupply unless those resources can run dry too) and some even resorted to their little dance that is melee combat but they were still doing well enough doing that even on the very last turn for me to get a ceasefire offered when I was very much outgunned.
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