Graviteam
October 29, 2020, 05:46:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Which chieften is in SABOW?  (Read 9916 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Flanker15
Generalmajor
*
Posts: 490


« on: March 20, 2015, 10:53:36 AM »

Is it the one with the laser range finder or not ?
Also what does it's gunsight reticule for the gunner and commander look like?   I can't find it anywhere.
Logged
Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
*****
Posts: 2412



« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2015, 11:27:55 AM »

no laser range finder for the chieftain.  uses the 12.7mm ranging mg. 

And no idea.  MK13?  ER ugh

and also no idea as its ai only. 

 Tongue
Logged

Yabba dabba do
Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
*****
Posts: 2412



« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2015, 11:43:01 AM »

Ok MK5... 

Don't know where I got mk13.  That had still brew on it and was way later on I think. 
Logged

Yabba dabba do
Flanker15
Generalmajor
*
Posts: 490


« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2015, 12:02:49 PM »

The critical asset that's missing for it to be playable is the reticule which is why I'm looking.
Logged
33lima
Oberst
******
Posts: 265



« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2015, 09:32:53 PM »

I have some sources on the Chieftain which I could dig out. One source illustrates the reticle for (and describes the functioning of) the Integrated Fire Control System (IFCS) I remember, which had an oval which 'jumped' when tracking a crossing target the same way the M1A1's does. Other sources may also show the reticle used with the ranging MG, earlier. I could scan these if they would help anyone make the chieftain playable (a 3-d interior is nice to have but not essential, as with many of the user-made tanks in Steel Fury).
Logged

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country!" when the guns begin to shoot!
'Tommy', Rudyard Kipling, 1892
Flanker15
Generalmajor
*
Posts: 490


« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2015, 10:02:57 AM »

I don't think the chieftain in game has the fire control system.
Logged
andrey12345
Graviteam
Generalfeldmarschall
******
Posts: 6428


Jerk developer


« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2015, 10:11:31 AM »

I don't think the chieftain in game has the fire control system.
Have.
But it is there specific - Marconi FV/GCE Mk 4. Used ranging MG (.50) over the cannon, to determine the distance. And you can see in the game that Chieftains first shots towards the target from it, and then from the main gun.
Logged

Пользовательский интерфейс будет неуместен на сегодняшних широкоэкранных экранах, а оригинальные карты неопределенного метра и моделирование чисел с низкими лицами заставляют людей действительно не хотеть играть.
Flanker15
Generalmajor
*
Posts: 490


« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2015, 10:20:41 AM »

Yep that's what I meant Smiley
It doesn't have a laser range finder though right or dynamic leading right?
It has to range with the machine gun then send that to the fire control which only accounts for range not movement.
Does it have any extra night vision?  NVG for the commander or just active IR sights?
Logged
andrey12345
Graviteam
Generalfeldmarschall
******
Posts: 6428


Jerk developer


« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2015, 10:35:27 AM »

Yep that's what I meant Smiley
It doesn't have a laser range finder though right or dynamic leading right?
But it is still have FCS  Grin
Yes instead of the laser is high velocity bullet but basically the same thing , but a little slow Cheesy

It has to range with the machine gun then send that to the fire control which only accounts for range not movement.
All tanks in the game have FCSs with only range measurements. It is typically for 60-70s made tanks

Does it have any extra night vision?  NVG for the commander or just active IR sights?
What is the "extra"?
It have typicall OEC with backlit IR searchlight.
Yes, if you'll put iindividualny NVG, the fact that is illuminates by searchlight will be seen very well.
Logged

Пользовательский интерфейс будет неуместен на сегодняшних широкоэкранных экранах, а оригинальные карты неопределенного метра и моделирование чисел с низкими лицами заставляют людей действительно не хотеть играть.
Flanker15
Generalmajor
*
Posts: 490


« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2015, 10:58:28 AM »

Extra as in goggles the commander can use when unbuttoned.
Logged
andrey12345
Graviteam
Generalfeldmarschall
******
Posts: 6428


Jerk developer


« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2015, 11:07:03 AM »

Extra as in goggles the commander can use when unbuttoned.
I think this is possible even for Reno-FT  Grin

As example night vision for soviet tank crews from early 1941


Mounted on BT-7/5 tank

« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 11:17:02 AM by andrey12345 » Logged

Пользовательский интерфейс будет неуместен на сегодняшних широкоэкранных экранах, а оригинальные карты неопределенного метра и моделирование чисел с низкими лицами заставляют людей действительно не хотеть играть.
Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
*****
Posts: 2412



« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2015, 11:09:30 AM »

Extra as in goggles the commander can use when unbuttoned.

Who's army and what time frame?  1st gen light amplification stuff was pretty bad.  To see vary far with those you pretty much needed an IR spot light or "pointer".  FOr a vehicle it negates one massive advantage over plain near infra red active sights, being passive.  Since you would pretty much have to paint everything with an IR spot light again to see beyond a vary short ways.  With all sorts of down sides.  Grainy picture, no light filters, just not so great.  Oh and often would make guys dizzy or even want to puke after awhile using them.  

But who's army becomes the real question and when. These sorts of devices started getting good in vary late 70's and 80's.  but restricted sales and expensive.
Logged

Yabba dabba do
33lima
Oberst
******
Posts: 265



« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2015, 04:27:06 PM »

Here are diagrams of the reticles for the Chieftain gunner's sight and a short description of their use. The 4-dot sight is the early one, the 9-dot, later.







These are reproduced in 'Chieftain' by Rob Griffin. the other stuff I have mostly describes the later IFCS (with the Tank Laser Sight) but includes lots of component and interior photographs.

You can hear the tank commander giving a quick Fire Control Order using the dot system, at about 0.24 and 1.40 in this video clip:

« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 10:02:21 AM by 33lima » Logged

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country!" when the guns begin to shoot!
'Tommy', Rudyard Kipling, 1892
Flanker15
Generalmajor
*
Posts: 490


« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2015, 03:19:48 AM »

I assume the one in game is the nine dot one.
Hope there's a to scale one of it somewhere.

Also in the game encyclopaedia, the tank is said to have the laser sight which I guess is wrong.
Logged
Flanker15
Generalmajor
*
Posts: 490


« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2015, 08:43:57 AM »

So with the one in game, after the range is found with the machine gun.  Is the range entered into a computer which sets the aimpoint of the sight like the m60 or does the gunner aim at the corresponding range mark on the reticule like the t62?
Logged
33lima
Oberst
******
Posts: 265



« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2015, 10:09:35 AM »

This is a useful source, dated 1980:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/161967447/Chieftain-Volume-3-Pamphlet-33#scribd

I think at this point they had the Tank Laser Sight (not sure if still with the RMG fitted, maybe as a backup?) but not the IFCS (computerised).
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 10:22:30 AM by 33lima » Logged

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country!" when the guns begin to shoot!
'Tommy', Rudyard Kipling, 1892
Flanker15
Generalmajor
*
Posts: 490


« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2015, 08:25:56 AM »

Does anyone have the 70s era cheiftains gunnery manual?
Logged
33lima
Oberst
******
Posts: 265



« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2015, 07:05:36 PM »

I don't have the manual but in Geroge Forty's book, there is the following:

- a short narrative description by a loader of a shoot on the range using the RMG;

- a similar description, by a gunner, using the TLS (before IFCS was added);

- a detailed step-by-step description of a the drill for an engagement using IFCS, with annotated diagrams of each step.

I have no info on what the tank commander's sight reticle looked like.

Unfortunately only the first of these is much use for Iranian Chieftains, I believe. If you want to see it let me know and I'll post a scan.
Logged

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country!" when the guns begin to shoot!
'Tommy', Rudyard Kipling, 1892
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!