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December 15, 2017, 09:29:52 PM *
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Poll
Question: Do you like a Playable T-72?
Yes, will be great have this beauty
Yes, but only if there is another tank to face the T-72
No, I expect older units as a playable T-55
No, I prefer stay with old technology forever.

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Author Topic: Do you like a Playable T-72 tank?  (Read 24771 times)
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33lima
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« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2016, 09:59:18 PM »

Making the AI AFVs that are in SABOW now user-playable, would be a good start. Even if they can only be played from the tank commander's sights or unbuttoned positions, until somebody can implement the fire control system. 'Cockpit' 3d interiors are nice to have but not essential. A Chieftain playeble from the TC's sights and hatch view would be a lot better than no playable Chieftain at all, likewise a BMP, Centurion, Ratel etc. And these models are already in the game!

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For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country!" when the guns begin to shoot!
'Tommy', Rudyard Kipling, 1892
whukid
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« Reply #61 on: November 18, 2016, 03:11:01 AM »

A couple years back they actually had the BMP working and Flashburn had a half decent M113 package going. Someone also got the bright idea of throwing a T-34/85 into the mix as well as a playable vehicle.


Honestly, I think the only shortcoming with any of the Graviteam games is the complex system necessary to mod the game. Granted, when I tried to overcome it I was 18, stupid, and burdened with the attention span of a small child, however it still completely lacks anything resembling user friendliness.

Simply put, if the process of importing a vehicle was easier or at least less frustrating, there would be a wider field of modders to pick up where Graviteam left off. A great example of this is Kerbal Space Program; the base game blows, however it's integrated reliance on 3rd party mods have forced it into a genre of its own among space exploration games. This concept also goes for maps, skins, audio, ect. I think the reason Steel Fury's modding community took off the way it did was because of how easy it is to edit the files and get your stuff into the game (A game focused on Operation Fridericus now manages to fit everything from Manstein's march on Kerch to the invasion of Normandy?!).


So in short, I think every sane person here understands that making vehicles to Graviteam's level of proficiency limits the company's output, however if some of the effort dedicated to DLC were instead aimed at making simple importer tools and integrated editing (map making, scenario building, army building, ect.) the general populace could come up with their own solutions.


The reason I bring this up is I truly am completely turned off by the Iran-Iraq war and would rather spend my time driving an M60 over the dunes of the Sinai or a T-62 through the narrow mountain passes of Norway.
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33lima
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« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2016, 12:37:19 AM »

...or said M60, or indeed a Leo 1, Chieftain or T-64/T-72 across the North German Plain?

Something approaching this can be achieved in GT:OS by mixing and matching DLC, if you can ignore the out-of-place markings and buildings...



...not to mention troops shivering in lightweight uniforms while risking life and limb without steel helmets...



...though even getting the Chieftain to move at other than the current halting crawl looks to be a significant modding headache. And of course a SABOW-style tanksim element is absent.

The time taken to build big maps and replicate modern FCS's seems likely to doom such hopes, short of a serious change of development tack by GT or your aforementioned facilitation of modding. We can but live in hope, while making the best of what we've got.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 01:32:35 AM by 33lima » Logged

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country!" when the guns begin to shoot!
'Tommy', Rudyard Kipling, 1892
Pandacat
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« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2016, 10:57:37 PM »

It'll be nice to have M60A3 to face T72. Grin
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33lima
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« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2016, 09:15:34 PM »

It'll be nice to have M60A3 to face T72. Grin

Well, while we are hoping and waiting for 'Fulda Gap/North German Plain' DLC, we can always take a T-72...



...up against various enemies, including Leo 1, in this:

http://combatace.com/topic/83055-iron-warriors-balkans-on-fire/
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For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country!" when the guns begin to shoot!
'Tommy', Rudyard Kipling, 1892
Pandacat
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« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2016, 06:25:23 PM »

Is this gonna be a new game? or simply DLC for current SABOW?
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andrey12345
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« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2016, 07:28:33 PM »

Is this gonna be a new game? or simply DLC for current SABOW?

Of course new game. At first we invent time machine, then move back to 2004 and release this game as "T-72 Iron Warriors"
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"Огонь, парни в 20 метров от противника, встают, разворачиваются спиной и гибнут, кто выжил уже не может сражаться" (с) Baalleon
33lima
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« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2016, 07:50:47 PM »

Is this gonna be a new game? or simply DLC for current SABOW?

Of course new game. At first we invent time machine, then move back to 2004 and release this game as "T-72 Iron Warriors"

So that's how it all started - time travel. It all makes sense, now.





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For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country!" when the guns begin to shoot!
'Tommy', Rudyard Kipling, 1892
johncage
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« Reply #68 on: December 05, 2016, 01:51:22 AM »

i believe modern tanks t-64 and beyond in a european environment, maybe moldova or chechnya will spur some additional interest from mainstream outlets and more players.

it has been a very long time since t-64, 74 or 80 were handled competently in a game. i am aware of steel beast, quite frankly, not attracted to their 1999 technology.
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Anddy
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« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2016, 02:06:30 PM »

So in short, I think every sane person here understands that making vehicles to Graviteam's level of proficiency limits the company's output, however if some of the effort dedicated to DLC were instead aimed at making simple importer tools and integrated editing (map making, scenario building, army building, ect.) the general populace could come up with their own solutions.
What is the profit for Graviteam to make a simple importer tools and integrated editing map? It's obvious to make another DLC.
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whukid
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« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2017, 03:22:33 AM »

So in short, I think every sane person here understands that making vehicles to Graviteam's level of proficiency limits the company's output, however if some of the effort dedicated to DLC were instead aimed at making simple importer tools and integrated editing (map making, scenario building, army building, ect.) the general populace could come up with their own solutions.
What is the profit for Graviteam to make a simple importer tools and integrated editing map? It's obvious to make another DLC.

Did you miss my point on Kerbal Space program intentionally or...?

DLC are short term, finite solutions to a lack of content. They cost the company money and time to make, and their success is wholly dependant on the DLC reaching the intended audience.

Creating tools for people to generate user-content pretty much alleviates the burden of providing made-to-order DLC on the company. If you've been following the Graviteam adventures with SABOW and GTOS, you're well aware that this has always been their achilles heel, since the campaigns are so limited in scope compared to their potential. This limited scope, without mods, pretty much guarantees that the people who spend money on the game stop after a few hours and limits the feedback that the developers receive from their audience outside of the forum, which impacts their profits in the next release.

Now if we're going to compare this from a market standpoint with companies that produce games like KSP, the Total War series, Civilization, Eve Online, or Red Orchestra/Rising Storm, the latter is the clear beneficiary in the long run (which would be recurring profits from the next generation of games the developer releases).

You're forgetting that the money from the DLC isn't the goal, the consumer base is. You stay relevant by answering the consumer's demands, which in this case would be playable vehicles.

Whether or not Graviteam does this is up to them, but they've been mentioned by a few different authors for gaming magazines now that had good things to say about the potential of SABOW, but not it's limited scope in content.
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33lima
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« Reply #71 on: May 25, 2017, 09:37:57 PM »

Spot on, Whukid.
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For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country!" when the guns begin to shoot!
'Tommy', Rudyard Kipling, 1892
johncage
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« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2017, 11:13:41 PM »

i have an accurate 3d model of t-72 made from a guy that can be used for this game if anyone wants. i myself forgot how to mod.
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whukid
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« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2017, 09:07:28 PM »

Spot on, Whukid.

Thank you.


I must say, I'm very frustrated with the direction Graviteam has been heading. Their high water mark seemed to be just after the release of SABOW and GTOS, which both died off after the constant updates made it impossible to use mods and the cryptic mod tools that required a sacrifice to the Windows gods to get anything to work.

It's really too bad because they have a better engine than any other tank simulator, but won't create the tools that would allow the user-base to keep it alive.

If we're going to compare Graviteam's work to other simulators, let's look at the former Pacific Fighters series. I played that game before I knew how to spell "high-school", and now that I've finished a tour in the Marines (10 years later), there's still not only an active player base, but an extremely active mod community. They've literally taken a game that was honestly sub-par and turned it into a massive franchise that covers everything from World War 1 to the ass-end of Vietnam, with the tools for the user to create their own campaigns, battles, and custom engagements without trying to manipulate a hugely complicated system.

Now, 10 years later, the developers are using the community that was fostered by the modders and 3rd party add-ons and used it to literally revive a dead game and create new titles.

The irony of it all is that the original game covered a tiny niche in the Pacific Campaign of World War 2, very similar to Steel Fury's Operation Fredricus or SABOW's Iran campaign, and the players decided to expand it to include the next 40 years of airborne combat.

Sit there and think, for a moment, of where this game could be if it was easy to import vehicles and create new campaigns.
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johncage
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« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2017, 02:02:32 AM »

war thunder just released highly accurate and detailed t-64 model. war thunder has a neutral stance on non profit modding so anyone who wants to extract the model and port it over here is allowed to do so.

here's an article and screenshots for it:
http://worthplaying.com/article/2017/8/29/news/105039/

so excited, my 3dmax student license has long expired, maybe someone has working 3dsmax and knowledge for modding can do this task?

more screens from official site:
https://warthunder.com/en/news/4906-development-t-64a-the-pioneer-of-a-new-era-en
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 02:04:03 AM by johncage » Logged
Margdons
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« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2017, 06:12:40 PM »

Just want to say, T-72 is awesome
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johncage
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« Reply #76 on: September 20, 2017, 02:08:57 AM »

war thunder just released modern era update with t-64 and its contempoaries in the fulda gap, i will try and get the model working in either this game or spintiires mudrunner
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