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Author Topic: Inf vs Tanks...  (Read 20634 times)
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wodin
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« on: March 16, 2016, 07:24:18 PM »

Ooohh..My main gripe with GTOS was how a tank or two could wipe out platoon after platoon if you had no ATG or tanks when  playing as the germans. More so when a tank would be in a forest surrounded by my little pixel truppen who just kind of ran around it until shot.

Now..today..was my first experience of tank vs inf.   YIPPEE...the tank got to close..and before long it was in flames. Hurrah! My one and only gripe has been vanquished in this game.
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Sperber
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 07:31:26 PM »

You must waiting for the Tank and do nothing in your trench Wink
All Squadmembers take at the same time the hand grenades...
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Tanker
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2016, 08:52:05 PM »

Do you have any idea of what weapon was used against the tank.  Should be something more capable than hand grenades.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2016, 09:06:07 PM »

Do you have any idea of what weapon was used against the tank.  Should be something more capable than hand grenades.

This is a terrible mystery that can be found only by Google

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wodin
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2016, 09:31:04 PM »

No I missed what did it. Tank got real close with in some woods. Wasn't long before it went up..before it had done any real damage anyway. My platoon was experienced and eager. I think but can't quite remember if I issued an assualt order when it got close.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2016, 10:44:19 PM »

No I missed what did it. Tank got real close with in some woods. Wasn't long before it went up..before it had done any real damage anyway. My platoon was experienced and eager. I think but can't quite remember if I issued an assualt order when it got close.
If the tank close and alone in the squad visibility, and the squad has a short-range AT tools (eg AT granate), 1 soldier stands out and runs to the tank and trying to deal with it (automatically if previous order is attack - have attack modifier in GTMF). So it was since the APK43 times.
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wodin
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2016, 02:51:11 AM »

Andrey all I can say is I never noticed it in GTOS and I'd been more than one occasion where Tanks where right in amongst a platoon in a forest and nothing..yet here we get a result that feels right.
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Flashburn
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2016, 06:38:28 AM »

A bit old.  BUT...

You have to check out each squad to see what they have.  Some are vary well equipped with Anti tank stuff.  Some are totally helpless in MIUS.  But after the stink on steam I made it a priority do dink around with these guys in the BIG German campaign.  I killed a lot of t34's was the result.  Although I do think its sort of silly that most infantry anti tank squads of Germans only get like 2 6 stick grenades.  I would think these guys would get the HHL-3 instead.  And the blandenflashe or what ever the molitov the Germans now have in Muis for good measure.  Some line infantry squads are totally loaded with 6 stick grenades.

The Grenade launcher works OK.  But I find it hard to kill t34's with them.  ANd they will not even shoot and KV1 or KV8.  I tried that.  But I do not expect miracles from ww2 grande launchers either. 
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Tanker
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2016, 04:51:45 PM »

  But after the stink on steam I made it a priority do dink around with these guys in the BIG German campaign. 

Stink about what?  And what do you mean by "dink" around with these guys?
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davidx
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2016, 07:40:29 PM »

Hello,

If infantry with small arms could handle tanks easily, or even regularly, with the same generation equipment, tanks would have  already disappeared from the battlefield. Generally, even modern man-portable weapons are no guarantee against same generation tanks.

When and if it does become that situation, one side will be caught horribly off guard, and warfare will again as always be changed.


regards,

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Tanker
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2016, 08:03:41 PM »

Hello,

If infantry with small arms could handle tanks easily, or even regularly, with the same generation equipment, tanks would have  already disappeared from the battlefield. Generally, even modern man-portable weapons are no guarantee against same generation tanks.

When and if it does become that situation, one side will be caught horribly off guard, and warfare will again as always be changed.


regards,



Man portable anti tank weapons are not small arms. 
There are never guarantees but the Israeli experience in it's most recent incursion into southern Lebanon illustrates the effectiveness  of portable (relatively) anti tank weapons in constricted areas.  As you say they are responding by developing automated anti missile defense systems for their armor.

GTOS has a history of single, unaccompanied, buttoned up tanks assaulting German trenches or infantry in forested areas at night and destroying them.  This is aberrant behavior.  No tank crew men would behave this way. The German infantry in game was supine in the face of this behavior.  IRL Japanese infantry with no anti tank weapons other than high explosives and gasoline would occasionally successfully knock out Sherman tanks (most especially ones that had been stripped of infantry cover) in some of the island fighting in WW2
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andrey12345
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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2016, 08:14:12 PM »

GTOS has a history of single, unaccompanied, buttoned up tanks assaulting German trenches or infantry in forested areas at night and destroying them.  This is aberrant behavior.  No tank crew men would behave this way. The German infantry in game was supine in the face of this behavior. 
Yes, Russian tanks are break at night in the woods, everybody knows.  Grin

IRL Japanese infantry with no anti tank weapons other than high explosives and gasoline would occasionally successfully knock out Sherman tanks (most especially ones that had been stripped of infantry cover) in some of the island fighting in WW2

What really the Japanese so strong that they can break the tank armor with their bare hands?

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Tanker
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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2016, 08:29:38 PM »

GTOS has a history of single, unaccompanied, buttoned up tanks assaulting German trenches or infantry in forested areas at night and destroying them.  This is aberrant behavior.  No tank crew men would behave this way. The German infantry in game was supine in the face of this behavior.  
Yes, Russian tanks are break at night in the woods, everybody knows.  Grin

IRL Japanese infantry with no anti tank weapons other than high explosives and gasoline would occasionally successfully knock out Sherman tanks (most especially ones that had been stripped of infantry cover) in some of the island fighting in WW2

What really the Japanese so strong that they can break the tank armor with their bare hands?



Did you not see that part about high explosives and gasoline Andrey or did you just ignore it?

Are you saying that Russian crews were stupid enough to take a solitary tank into an enemy position at night in the woods without infantry support?  That's what they do in the game but I don't think they would do that in real life.
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Flashburn
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2016, 12:03:20 AM »

Well the game generally attempts to take infantry along. If they are around and able.  A player can  easily, in Mius strip or cause infantry to fall behind by artillery or direct fire.

The stink on steam I refer to was a thread where tons of people where complaining about infantry being helpless to tanks. It can be both true and untrue.  If you use infantry that have anti tank weapons well, using good tactics and conditions, you can kill tanks.  For the large Red Army campaign, I do not think I ever got into a spot where I even needed to go infantry VS tank.  In the German one, absolutely did.   Killed tanks with the 6 stick grenades, satchels, HHL-3, the 45mm grenade launcher thing and  even regular rifle fired 30 mm grenade...once.  For light tanks, machine gun and rifle fire. The German Molotov thing, I only saw on 1 squad of soldiers and used 1 time, it did not work out. 

But generally, there are SO many anti tank guns and large howitzer types that the need to go infantry VS tanks is sort of not needed.  With that said, more anti tank grenades out there with the infantry is not a bad thing.  Some platoons have no anti tank at all.  Now, some should indeed not have any, but the player needs to look to see what the infantry have and not expect that all infantry have things able to do anything.  I would not mind seeing more anti tank squads threw out the reserve pool.  With better weapons than 6 stick grenades, at least for Germans. 
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Tanker
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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2016, 03:48:26 AM »

I'm talking about GTOS Flashburn.  I've had plenty of cases where tanks in pairs or just singles overrun German trenches and slaughter the troops that just keep popping up and down in the trenches and get mowed down.  The tanks are right on top of them, not 200 meters away.
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Flashburn
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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2016, 05:50:10 AM »

Ah... That.

But is largely the same thing.  Why did you let armor get that close to your infantry?  I would have popped smoke if nothing to fight them with.  But how many times have I killed tanks with infantry in GTOS for both times?  A lot.  But always looked to see what they had.  No anti tank, they are not sticking around to get mowed down. 

But a few more anti tank grenades is a good thing.  And why a platoon leader gets an HHL-3 never made a damned bit of sense.  With is an LT. charging a tank with an anti tank mine anyways?  Tongue
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andrey12345
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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2016, 12:28:48 PM »

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wodin
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2016, 12:55:19 PM »

Yes..but there was also a reason why Tanks wouldn't attack into woods and where unsafe in Urnam enviroments...because Inf could get up close and personal and take it out..in '43 they ahd magnetic mines..plus up close in forest a grenade through a vision slit would be enough..


Hello,

If infantry with small arms could handle tanks easily, or even regularly, with the same generation equipment, tanks would have  already disappeared from the battlefield. Generally, even modern man-portable weapons are no guarantee against same generation tanks.

When and if it does become that situation, one side will be caught horribly off guard, and warfare will again as always be changed.


regards,


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andrey12345
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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2016, 01:26:42 PM »

.plus up close in forest a grenade through a vision slit would be enough..

WWII tanks have a closed slits via glassblocks or periscopes or stroboscopes. Throw a grenade at them is extremely difficult, even if they were open - just do not get through. In forest too... Cheesy
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Tanker
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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2016, 04:07:52 PM »

Forest, city, hedgerows, it doesn't matter.  Tanks are vulnerable by themselves in such environments.
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