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Author Topic: Will this be offered on Gamers Gate or for Direct Purchase?  (Read 10109 times)
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MarkShot
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2016, 03:19:41 AM »

STEAM is a simple choice:

(1)  Developers say "buy" games as this is psychologically acceptable.  But you do not "buy", you, in fact, "lease" games.  You own NOTHING.

(2)  Sole distribution by STEAM may also be said to have a long list of benefits, the one obvious one never mentioned is "Monopoly".  There is no free market competition.  Years ago the price of games on CD/DVD came down over time.  With STEAM they can be kept artificially high forever; there are no market forces at work.

(3)  Ebay and the secondary market was real and worked.  STEAM forbids resale.  Every sale is primary market (meaning:  full price).  No customer pays anything less than full price and all sales equal developer/publisher revenue.

These are the reality of STEAM.  Say "play anwhere", "always updated", "simple installs", "piracy/malware free" ... but let's be honest, it maximizes profits at the legal consumers' expense.

Graviteam and other companies are entitled to pursue the best business plan possible; but I would appreciate a little honesty.  As opposed to STEAM is always portrayed as an altruistic choice for my benefit.  It is not.  LESS is LESS.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2016, 10:54:39 AM »

To be fair to the people who do not like Steam, while Steam itself might not be considered DRM (just a distribution platform), the fact you need the client running and checking your ownership of the game, is in fact DRM. Try running the game without Steam running, it will crash. This is because of the presence of steam_api64.dll and calls made to the API. If this requirement was removed, then GTMF could be said to be DRM-free.
This is the wrong poor analogy. Using API is not DRM. But then so, too, can be called Windows is a DRM or DirectX is DRM or Chrome/IE/Firefox, even Linux is a DRM  Grin.
Any program under OS uses at least one DLL to take out the API. That's the way the modern world of software. It makes no sense to repeat this nonsense about Steam is a DRM.

However I would love to see Graviteam games on GOG.com - DRM-free - and the GOG client does a fine job of auto-updating games just like Steam.
But why is GOG DRM free but STEAM is not?
It's really inexplicable mystery of Millennium
 Facepalm

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andrey12345
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2016, 11:07:29 AM »

STEAM is a simple choice:
(1)  Developers say "buy" games as this is psychologically acceptable.  But you do not "buy", you, in fact, "lease" games.  You own NOTHING.
GOG, GamersGate, any other Internet shops do the same.
This is illogical. Moreover, even when the games were sold on physical media, just the same thing, you are licensed and owned nothing, except for the physical media.

Why here specifically Steam?


(2)  Sole distribution by STEAM may also be said to have a long list of benefits, the one obvious one never mentioned is "Monopoly".  There is no free market competition.  Years ago the price of games on CD/DVD came down over time.  With STEAM they can be kept artificially high forever; there are no market forces at work.
Again, it is unclear where does STEAM? Prices put publishers or developers. Steam only offer discounts, so that it does not address the claim entirely.

(3)  Ebay and the secondary market was real and worked.  STEAM forbids resale.  Every sale is primary market (meaning:  full price).  No customer pays anything less than full price and all sales equal developer/publisher revenue.
There's just a different policy - a gradual decline in sales and prices. The analogue resale, but the distribution of the money goes to developers (rather than some obscure resellers).

These are the reality of STEAM. 
This is paranoia, except for the last paragraph, is irrelevant to STEAM.

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"Русские танки из-за нехватки снарядов сновали повсюду, стараясь раздавить наших солдат." (с) фантастические рассказы про Восточный фронт
Shadrach
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2016, 12:48:11 PM »

But why is GOG DRM free but STEAM is not?

In my opinion, if a game requires a client to be running for it to start, and this client checks if you are the owner of the game, then this is DRM. Not *invasive* DRM like the Sony case and hidden rootkits, but still a kind of DRM.

The GOG Client is not required to either update or play the games. You can copy the game to your laptop and continue playing. You can bring it to a friend on a USB stick and play.

Games distributed through Steam *can* be DRM-free if they do not require the Client to run. There are not a lot of them, but some software like Zoom Player does not require the client running in the background. This is up to the developer how they want to use the API and if they build in robustness to handle cases where the Steam Client is not running. If they just expect the client to be running, and if not crash, it is effectively DRM.

@MarkShot:
On Steam being a "monopoly" and keeping prices high, I totally disagree.

Steam has plenty of competition, GOG, Humble Bundle, Origin, UPlay etc etc, and developers are free to choose where to distribute their games. If anything, Steam games are ridiculously cheap these days, with constant sales, which again causes the problem for developers that gamers wait for the inevitable sale than buy the game on release.

At least for us oldies who are used to games always costing $60 or more, since the 80s, $10-20 for a good game is peanuts.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 12:50:17 PM by Shadrach » Logged
andrey12345
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2016, 02:20:59 PM »

In my opinion, if a game requires a client to be running for it to start,
Game requires DirectX "client", Visual studio "client", MS Windows "client", etc.
But why STEAM client is exception?  Grin

and this client checks if you are the owner of the game,
Well, you do not know how it works, and on this false basis make strange assumptions. But why? Facepalm

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"Русские танки из-за нехватки снарядов сновали повсюду, стараясь раздавить наших солдат." (с) фантастические рассказы про Восточный фронт
Ezra
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« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2016, 04:51:57 PM »

Will Graviteam consider selling Mius on GOG.com? Yes or No?
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andrey12345
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« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2016, 05:43:41 PM »

Will Graviteam consider selling Mius on GOG.com? Yes or No?

No. They do not take these games that we make, as reported many times. Not their specificity.
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"Русские танки из-за нехватки снарядов сновали повсюду, стараясь раздавить наших солдат." (с) фантастические рассказы про Восточный фронт
Tanker
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« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2016, 06:04:14 PM »

Keep sipping the milk.
...in a tinfoil hat. Cheesy

Lol Grin
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Lemonade
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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2016, 05:59:31 PM »

Markshot, Ezra, we're on the same boat.
When I buy a game, I expect to own the copy. Not rent it.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2016, 09:52:00 PM »

When I buy a game, I expect to own the copy. Not rent it.

With the advent of the digital era, it is impossible.
 Even the imagination of this opportunities in the form of a CD is not available.

You have two options - make the game your own, or a time machine and to go back 20 years ago Smiley


P.S. Stop this nonsense already  Grin. It makes no sense to fight with the progress  Cheesy.
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"Русские танки из-за нехватки снарядов сновали повсюду, стараясь раздавить наших солдат." (с) фантастические рассказы про Восточный фронт
Lemonade
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« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2016, 11:44:51 PM »

P.S. Stop this nonsense already  Grin. It makes no sense to fight with the progress  Cheesy.
Well, I have to disagree with you, Andrey, because I have a different definition of a progress. Smiley
GoG allows me not only to own copies of games that I have purchased, but I also don't need any client software to run them. So even if GoG goes out of business, I can still play games that I bought there. Can you say the same about Steam?

However, if you (GoG and Graviteam) couldn't come up with some sort of agreement (and I really hoped that you would, considering that Achtung Panzer: Kharkov showed up on GoG some time ago), then I understand it. I just won't buy Mius Front until it hits GoG or GamersGate as pure DRM and clientless software, that's all. No big deal and not my problem. It's you guys that are loosing revenue, not me *shrugs*.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 11:47:08 PM by Lemonade » Logged
BigDuke66
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« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2016, 08:39:33 PM »

I will buy GT:MF if it comes without butt plug.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2016, 10:29:35 PM »

GoG allows me not only to own copies of games that I have purchased, but I also don't need any client software to run them.

But you still need: Visual studio "client", DirectX "client", MS platform SDK "client", MS Windows x64 "client", AMD/nVidia "client", AMD/Intel "client", etc.
Most of them are much more unpredictable and buggy then the Steam. And I do not really understand why no one requires that there is no reference to these clients?
It looks very illogical. And it makes me think that people who fight vs STEAM are under the influence of some sort of stupidly marketing.


So even if GoG goes out of business, I can still play games that I bought there. Can you say the same about Steam?
Yes, the same thing. Steam same as GoG does not own the games, and what will happen, it does not define.
But DirectX/Windows will be abandoned first, If I were in your place, I worried about this  Cheesy.

However, if you (GoG and Graviteam) couldn't come up with some sort of agreement (and I really hoped that you would, considering that Achtung Panzer: Kharkov showed up on GoG some time ago), then I understand it. I just won't buy Mius Front until it hits GoG or GamersGate as pure DRM and clientless software, that's all. No big deal and not my problem. It's you guys that are loosing revenue, not me *shrugs*.

Perhaps you are not our client. Fortunately in the world there are plenty of games and a lot of shops, a buyer is always have a choice, and that's good.
And as I said before the games from Graviteam not have any sort of DRM, not matter where they are sold, on Steam, or somewhere else. Not need to repeat this obvious nonsense about Steam = DRM.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 10:32:29 PM by andrey12345 » Logged

"Русские танки из-за нехватки снарядов сновали повсюду, стараясь раздавить наших солдат." (с) фантастические рассказы про Восточный фронт
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