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Author Topic: Fire At Will can't be turned off? (Also, AI behavior in trenches)  (Read 4118 times)
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ppitm
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Posts: 21


« on: July 15, 2016, 02:44:39 AM »

I recently made a custom mission to test AI behavior. I put three squads of SMG infantry in trenches and let some German halftracks shoot at them with MG fire.

I told them to Conceal themselves, which evidently did nothing.

Then I told them to hold fire, with the assumption that they would stop exposing themselves to the enemy guns. However, every time I unchecked Fire at Will, it would 're-check' itself. Is this setting broken in some situations?



This issue is related to a major problem the game has. Namely that troops in trenches are suicidal. They constantly try to stand up, just to give the enemy a fair shot. This makes fortifications useless, since you can park a tank in front of a line of trenches and eventually kill everyone inside them.

There are myriad situations where troops are better off simply lying down in their foxholes, without trying to return fire or observe the enemy. A combination of Conceal and Hold Fire commands should accomplish this. Of course, the troops would then be vulnerable to being assaulted and killed with grenades, but that is the risk you take as a commander.

Lastly, I know that the player isn't meant to micromanage troops in this game, but if the AI isn't smart enough to adequately take care of itself, then the option needs to exist. Losing half a squad is unacceptable, when that squad could realistically be immune to bullets just by sitting down in the trench and eating lunch or smoking cards.
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hnbdgr
Major
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Posts: 50



« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2016, 07:16:29 AM »

Believe it or not I think the troops in trenches behaviour was improved a bit since days past. It's still not ideal I agree. The mechanic of them standing up is ( I think) supposed to simulate them raising their head over the parapet to see if they can spot nearby enemies. Perhaps it would be better with a different animation, also they should have a smaller chance of getting noticed.

With fire at will - it will get automatically checked if the unit comes under fire or enemy is too close (25-50m?). If you give your entrenched troops the conceal and hold fire modifiers during initial orders phase they should go undetected to advancing tanks/halftracks until the tank/halftrack runs right into the trench and hopefully gets molotoved. Works better at dusk or dawn and when trees or shrubbery is around.

What I didn't test is wheter unit experience has any effect on this. Would be worthwile setting up 3 platoons with recruit, regular & veteran and examining how effective at concealment they are in each scenario.

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ppitm
Oberleutnant
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Posts: 21


« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2016, 04:19:51 PM »

Cool, I'll have to re-test the behavior.


With fire at will - it will get automatically checked if the unit comes under fire or enemy is too close (25-50m?).

I've experienced with armored vehicles firing at SMG troops from 300-500m. Not sure how the guy with an SMG expects to hurt a halftrack at that distance.
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hnbdgr
Major
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Posts: 50



« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 05:41:26 PM »

Possible, although in my experience it is rather rare for a squad in a trench with the conceal and hold fire modifiers to be spotted at that distance. under 100m  more likely. Of course if a mortar lands near you or maybe the tracers go over their heads they will automatically switch to fire at will.
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Flashburn
Generalfeldmarschall
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Posts: 2412



« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 10:31:40 PM »

Fire arcs, hold fire with ambush stuff has a much greater chance of them not shooting at things.  But never a sure thing. 

For vehicles I have had some rather good success with hold fire command and charging armor with infantry.  They often do not shoot but will throw grenades and what not if not taking fire. Had a fair amount of success at night and bad visibility conditions doing this.  But its all out the window if they take fire.
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