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Author Topic: Beginning a campaign - noob question  (Read 436 times)
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lian00
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« on: July 02, 2017, 08:09:42 AM »

Hello, I played some games like Close Combat or Combat Mission but I’m lost with Mius.

I select first Campaign, I don’t change anything on general map (well, I’m defending so it seems OK), I don’t change anything in deployment and… it’s Hollywood. Ennemies are showing, my artillery is firing, enemy planes bomb and destroy the artillery (what a scene!) and my troops are defeated by tanks. Great show but I,m just a spectator and no idea how to influence the battle and if I only could. It seemed to me that the artillery HAD to be lost as I have nothing to counter planes and, so, the battle was already written.

So I need some advice: as it’s a campaign, it’s normal I may loose battles. But what should have done here to improve the result ?
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andrey12345
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2017, 10:14:52 AM »

I select first Campaign, I don’t change anything on general map (well, I’m defending so it seems OK), I don’t change anything in deployment and… it’s Hollywood. Ennemies are showing, my artillery is firing, enemy planes bomb and destroy the artillery (what a scene!) and my troops are defeated by tanks. Great show but I,m just a spectator and no idea how to influence the battle and if I only could. It seemed to me that the artillery HAD to be lost as I have nothing to counter planes and, so, the battle was already written.
It's not entirely clear what Hollywood means. In real combat artillery does not shoot, aircraft do not fly, enemies are invisible, tanks do not attack?


So I need some advice: as it’s a campaign, it’s normal I may loose battles. But what should have done here to improve the result ?
Everything is as usual: setup troops before the battle, set sectors of fire, leave reserves. During the battle, do not open fire ahead of time, maneuver with fire, if necessary - retreat, and then counterattack. In the game for this there are all means, both on an operational level and on a tactical one.

P.S. To begin with, it would be nice to pass training missions, this will remove a number of questions.
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"Огонь, парни в 20 метров от противника, встают, разворачиваются спиной и гибнут, кто выжил уже не может сражаться" (с) Baalleon
lian00
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2017, 11:33:38 AM »

I select first Campaign, I don’t change anything on general map (well, I’m defending so it seems OK), I don’t change anything in deployment and… it’s Hollywood. Ennemies are showing, my artillery is firing, enemy planes bomb and destroy the artillery (what a scene!) and my troops are defeated by tanks. Great show but I,m just a spectator and no idea how to influence the battle and if I only could. It seemed to me that the artillery HAD to be lost as I have nothing to counter planes and, so, the battle was already written.
It's not entirely clear what Hollywood means. In real combat artillery does not shoot, aircraft do not fly, enemies are invisible, tanks do not attack?


So I need some advice: as it’s a campaign, it’s normal I may loose battles. But what should have done here to improve the result ?
Everything is as usual: setup troops before the battle, set sectors of fire, leave reserves. During the battle, do not open fire ahead of time, maneuver with fire, if necessary - retreat, and then counterattack. In the game for this there are all means, both on an operational level and on a tactical one.

P.S. To begin with, it would be nice to pass training missions, this will remove a number of questions.

Thanks for the indications. I finished already the training missions but I think I understand a little what you mean.
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wodin
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2017, 09:47:07 PM »

If the game was Hollywood it wouldn't be on my hard drive let alone have over 139 hours on it. Stick with it..this is way more realistic than Close Combat.
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lian00
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 07:29:53 AM »

Very strange: in my mind "Hollywood" was a compliment. A great show that gives you excitement with surprise and great effects. And people seems to see it here as negative.
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chaudard
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 07:38:07 PM »

Yes, because Hollywood is unrealistic and biased Wink
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Tanker
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 11:16:35 PM »

Yes, because Hollywood is unrealistic and biased Wink

To play devil's advocate, I'd say that Band of Brothers and perhaps Saving Private Ryan were both pretty realistic and unbiased.  As always, care must be taken with too broad an application of stereotypes.  I'm often amused at notion that an American film industry, with American directors, producers etc that makes movies, aimed primarily at an American audience, with an American centric point of view is somehow biased.
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chaudard
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 05:54:36 AM »

Hacksaw Ridge is a nice movie too, but Hollywood lack of opposite sided content. It's the reason why occidental people think America is the main victory country in 1945. Hollywood forget Great Britain, Russia... And why not making Germany, Japan, France centric point of view? (See Generation War, a German miniseries similar to Band of Brothers).
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Tanker
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2017, 08:37:49 PM »

You're just talking about Hollywood dominance in the movie industry.  Hollywood has no obligation, or incentive, to make German, Russian, Japanese centered movies.  Eastwood did make "Letters from Iwo Jima" from a Japanese perspective as an interesting exception.  Again, it is a bit too much to expect an American industry, with mostly American personalities, making films primarily for an American audience not to emphasize an American perspective.  No one is stopping French or German or Russian film companies from producing their own "biased" films to correct what they feel are misguided perceptions.

I'm pretty sure a film or game produced by a non-American company would come with it's own set of biases and point of view.  It's only natural.
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chaudard
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 08:58:20 PM »

Yes... In non-US countries, historians say "Hollywood bias" because Hollywood is very vey important in the world, and the other countries cannot produce such amount and quality of movies as USA. So, de facto, history is written @ Hollywood with its natural bias.
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Tanker
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 02:19:57 AM »

It's a shame that a great number of people take movies as educational.  I am amazed by seemingly intelligent people being influenced by the power of suggestion and propaganda in movies.
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chaudard
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 05:41:37 AM »

It's natural: propaganda is extremely powerful Wink
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Tanker
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 08:02:14 PM »

It's natural: propaganda is extremely powerful Wink

But it's not propaganda in most movies.  That's where you err. Granted, some documentaries verge into what I would call propaganda but the large majority don't.  Certainly making a movie emphasizing America's role in WW2 is by itself not propaganda.  Would you term any work of fiction propaganda?  When I watch a movie, American or French or whatever the provenance, I'm aware that it's fiction.  I'm aware it's telling a story with one point of view, just like when I read "War and Peace" or "For Whom the Bell Tolls", etc.  Peoples' credulity or naivete is not the fault of the writer or film maker.  In this case, don't shoot the messenger.  

  
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chaudard
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 08:40:54 PM »

It's not my point of view, it's the feeling of the majority of people. Ask them  Wink I could explain the problem in French, but it's hard in english for me. And, it's not the right place to write about politic. A possible indication: 1984 (Orwell).
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Tanker
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2017, 07:34:58 PM »

It's not my point of view, it's the feeling of the majority of people. Ask them  Wink I could explain the problem in French, but it's hard in english for me. And, it's not the right place to write about politic. A possible indication: 1984 (Orwell).

As to taking a poll about whether Hollywood films are propaganda I guess it would depend who you ask.  I kind of interpret non-US opinion on the subject as a bit of sour grapes, tinged with touch of envy.

I can certainly appreciate the difficulty of fully expressing oneself while not using your native language.  I speak a bit of Spanish but I could not express myself as well in that language as you do in English. 

This is a pretty dead board most of the time but maybe the admins feel the same way you do about discussing this here.  Anyway, I've enjoyed the courteous discussion.
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chaudard
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2017, 08:03:27 PM »

Thank you  Smiley
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