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Author Topic: Should I buy "Mius-Front" or "Operation Star"?  (Read 333 times)
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FLIR
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« on: June 15, 2018, 07:55:53 PM »

Hello!

I have just discovered Graviteam Tactics, played the Operation Star demo and have to say: This is one of the most authentic and atmospheric ground combat simulations I have ever played (I also like Steel Beasts Pro Pe).

There seem to be two main "versions" of GT: Operation Star and Mius-Front.

I have read a lot of reviews and watched videos of both, OS and MF. My impression:

- The newer MF seems to have a better UI, better AI, etc. It is "mechanically" better in any regard.
- The older OS seems to have a somehow better and much more atmospheric campaign. One specific point: I absolutely love the winter setting and landscape of OS!
- The OS campaign also seems to be much more manageable, while the size of the MF battles is just too large to manage: https://steamcommunity.com/app/312980/discussions/0/351660338714212422/

Now I have to decide if I buy and learn OS or MF.

My questions:

(a) How much better is the UI and AI of MF (there is no demo) compared to OS?

(b) Is it really true that the campaigns and battles of MF are a lot larger (and therefore harder to manage) than the ones from OS? I know that the battle radius for tactical battles can be chosen, but only "moderate" seems to be acceptable (unlmitied cant be handled even with modern CPUs and limited is too small to be realistic)

(c) Is Graviteam Tactics backward compatible? Can I load OS in GTMF and play OS with the new UI? This would of course be the best solution!

Thanks for your answers!
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chaudard
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2018, 06:12:41 AM »

Hello and Welcome!

I think Steel Beasts is a tank simulator. Maybe you could check Steel Armor Blaze of War. SABOW uses the GTOS engine, the player can use a T-62 or a M-60. The game is very good.

Currently, there is only one winter DLC in GTMF. Very hard landscape with swamps, forest, a lot of minefields, trenches, bunkers...

Your questions:
a) The new UI is better since more options to control your troops are available. The AI use more options too (like screen smoke), all the game is better (MF adds new layer of nice stuffs like ricochets on the ground, more explosions type, trenches/bunkers/minefields, new units like German 88 Flak AT gun, Land lease Shermans etc).
b) Some campaigns are more larger (with BattleGroup), some campaigns are identical (Shilovo). Also, some campaigns can be played with the larger mode (BattleGroup) or with the standard mode, like GTOS. You can ask the community before to buy a DLC, to know that.
Personally, I play my own battles through the Quick Battle editor (the MF editor is far better editor than on GTOS).
c) GTMF and GTOS are not compatibles.
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FLIR
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2018, 10:05:44 AM »

Thanks for you answer!

Yes, Steel Beasts is a tank simulator, but I played it exactly like GT (tactical phase only) without having to scout, shoot, move etc. for yourself. It has also got an external view - you can play as a high commander, issue orders, and the AI platoons do the rest. Its very authentic (almost hyper-realistic), but the terrain mesh is too "low-res" and modern combat is harsh - fire fights are extremely short and deadly. The WW2 fights and terrain of GT are much more interesting to me. The strategic phase also makes the tactical phase more interesting: seeing the remains and ruins of former battles, dead, frozen soldiers etc.

I have read about the new winter DLC in GTMF - but it seems to have just large woods (with hundreds of "cloned", same looking trees) and it seems to have bad performance, even on state-of-the-art PCs (or did I get a wrong impression?) . The winter landscape of GTOS with its hills, hamlets, roads, woods and groves looks so much better to my eye. It really pushes the atmosphere and immersion of GT. And it runs perfectly on my i7-2600k@4,2GHZ with a GTX1070.

Its a hard decision for me, which one to buy, GTOS and GTMF cost almost the same on steam. I absolutely love the setting of OS, but its hard to motivate myself learning a complicated, outdated UI, knowing that a better one is already available with MF...
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chaudard
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Posts: 271


« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2018, 01:34:42 PM »

Thanks for you answer!

Yes, Steel Beasts is a tank simulator, but I played it exactly like GT (tactical phase only) without having to scout, shoot, move etc. for yourself. It has also got an external view - you can play as a high commander, issue orders, and the AI platoons do the rest. Its very authentic (almost hyper-realistic), but the terrain mesh is too "low-res" and modern combat is harsh - fire fights are extremely short and deadly. The WW2 fights and terrain of GT are much more interesting to me. The strategic phase also makes the tactical phase more interesting: seeing the remains and ruins of former battles, dead, frozen soldiers etc.
You can look at SABOW (from Graviteam), on the GTOS engine. SABOW is a cold war game with 4 maps and 1 DLC (Iraq). The terrain is very good, the game is very realitic (and it will improve your skill/knowledge in GTOS/Mius).
I have read about the new winter DLC in GTMF - but it seems to have just large woods (with hundreds of "cloned", same looking trees) and it seems to have bad performance, even on state-of-the-art PCs (or did I get a wrong impression?) . The winter landscape of GTOS with its hills, hamlets, roads, woods and groves looks so much better to my eye. It really pushes the atmosphere and immersion of GT. And it runs perfectly on my i7-2600k@4,2GHZ with a GTX1070.
With the same amount of units, you will got less FPS in GTOS than GTMF. Furthermore, smoke perfomance was very improved some months ago, so GTMF is far better.
The performance issue is linked to the very acurate spotting system. The high number of trees in Karbusel DLC produces a drop of FPS (due to high CPU work). In GTOS, it's the same problem, since it's less optimized.
If you want a nice summer map with a diversified terrain, Shilovo is a mandatory DLC, on GTOS and GTMF.
If you want mainly snowed map, you will have to buy GTOS. On GTOS, you can buy a lot of DLC: snowed maps, cold war maps, summer maps.
If you want a better engine with updates, High definition, a lot of units, new DLC (summer maps, one snowed map now, maybe more in the future. Cold war maps will be released in the future) you can buy GTMF.
If money is not an issue, you can start with GTOS and the embeded winter maps. Then, you can try GTMF. Don't start with GTMF, otherwise you will be frustrated to not find the nice improvements from MF in GTOS.
You can try Tank Warfare, from Graviteam. In Africa. With Germans, Americans and British units. On GTMF engine.
Its a hard decision for me, which one to buy, GTOS and GTMF cost almost the same on steam. I absolutely love the setting of OS, but its hard to motivate myself learning a complicated, outdated UI, knowing that a better one is already available with MF...
Since GTMF was published, I never played GTOS again. It lacks too many improvements.
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FLIR
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2018, 02:55:38 PM »

Thanks again for your detailed reply!

Since GTMF was published, I never played GTOS again. It lacks too many improvements.

Yes, even in the tutorial/gameplay videos GTMF looks like a big step forward from GTOS. I love the radial menu (for example) and the overall cleaner and more elegant, modern HUD.

If money is not an issue, you can start with GTOS and the embeded winter maps. Then, you can try GTMF. Don't start with GTMF, otherwise you will be frustrated to not find the nice improvements from MF in GTOS.

You are absolutely right: Going from the new GTMF back to the old GTOS would be hard. I am a "working adult" so money is not an issue, but "time" is a very rare resource. How time intensiv is the transition from GTOS to GTMF, interface wise?

I think I will start with GTOS - as you said - because this is the winter campaign I have read so much about (RPS for example has some great articles on it) and I already love the demo. After that I will switch to GTMF.

Thanks for your advise!

p.s. Have the developers never talked about "porting" the old GTOS campaigns (or maps) to GTMF. The engine is the same (with some additions), it should not be that hard to do it. I think a lot of GT fans would buy this "OS DLC".
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chaudard
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Posts: 271


« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2018, 04:17:50 PM »

I am a "working adult" so money is not an issue, but "time" is a very rare resource. How time intensiv is the transition from GTOS to GTMF, interface wise?

I think after 3 battles * 3 hours (3-10 hours) the transition is done, you will handle UI. It's the same with a lot of improvements, the basics/logic are the same, so it's very quick.

I think I will start with GTOS - as you said - because this is the winter campaign I have read so much about (RPS for example has some great articles on it) and I already love the demo. After that I will switch to GTMF.

Thanks for your advise!

It's a good choice  Wink
You will find nice videos of winter maps on GTOS from Guetapens on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/GeneticVehicle/videos

p.s. Have the developers never talked about "porting" the old GTOS campaigns (or maps) to GTMF. The engine is the same (with some additions), it should not be that hard to do it. I think a lot of GT fans would buy this "OS DLC".

The devs want to be very accurate. I will quote their answer from 4 days ago:
Quote
Andrey wrote:
Quote
Red Squirrel wrote:
maybe you could help some more with motivation by porting over Rakitnoe too ;P

No, it will not. First of all, the Rakitnoe battlefield was made according to very old tech; in the second, a lot of documents appeared, and they were much more reliable, and there the operation was somewhat different.

Those. in fact, we must all do from zero, so there is no sense. It is better to do something new, for example, as the Soviet tank division armed only with automatic rifles attacked the German infantry division armed with heavy tanks with high caliber guns.

They ported Shilovo (community asked about this map) and they done Karbusel because community wanted a winter map. They told they will port a cold war map and they work about a East map (or a dedicated game?) (from Russia point of view, in East Asia!). Also, they add new DLCs in Tank Warfare (Africa). Maybe we will see a snowed map in Tank Warfare (I saw a screenshot about that, but it can be a lure). Graviteam is a small studio, 4 developpers, so it's not easy to create dozens of maps a year  Sad
They told they wanted to improve SABOW (with the same engine from GTOS due to legal issue and/or time issue). But, there is too few players playing a tank simulator today... So they put resources in GTMF and Tank Warfare  Smiley
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Bergeson
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Posts: 3


« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 01:06:51 AM »

Mius Front is the way to go. Although, Operation Star is still real good in my opinion, especially if you like the winter battles near in the Kharkov sector. It is already news on the Steam forum that Mius will be importing an OP Star Scenario by the end of the year.Therefore, when you do go for Mius, snow will come eventually. Wink
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FLIR
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Posts: 5


« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2018, 05:43:11 PM »

I think after 3 battles * 3 hours (3-10 hours) the transition is done, you will handle UI. It's the same with a lot of improvements, the basics/logic are the same, so it's very quick.

It's a good choice  Wink
You will find nice videos of winter maps on GTOS from Guetapens on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/GeneticVehicle/videos

Thanks for the link to those videos! I watched most of them during this week (GTOS and GTMF) and I still think that the "old" GTOS winter scenarios and maps are more atmospheric and aesthetically better looking than the newer GTMF maps. The vegetation, for example, to me looks more realistic in the OS maps than in the MF maps. Maybe thats because "winter vegetation" without leaves is easier to model and render in a game engine.

Graviteam is a small studio, 4 developers, so it's not easy to create dozens of maps a year

It is baffling how such a small team can make such a deep and great looking simulation (I think most of the non-indie games are created by hundreds of people nowadays)! If they cannot create that much content, it would be great if they could just port legacy versions of the old GTOS scenarios to GTMF. I think people would buy such a "legacy" DLC. Maybe I should start a "poll" on this forum... Smiley

hey told they wanted to improve SABOW (with the same engine from GTOS due to legal issue and/or time issue). But, there is too few players playing a tank simulator today... So they put resources in GTMF and Tank Warfare

I am perfectly fine with that: GT and Tank Warfare are "one of a kind" simulations! They should put all their effort into those tactical sims.

Tank simulators on the other hand have a very strong competitor "Steel Beasts Pro". "eSim Games" models tanks perfectly down to the last detail. The sound recordings for example are spectacular: https://youtu.be/tLq7jxmPls4?t=10m5s and here is an old "sound recording" video (from 2011):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaLr77RvN40
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 05:49:35 PM by FLIR » Logged
FLIR
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Posts: 5


« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2018, 06:07:21 PM »

Mius Front is the way to go. Although, Operation Star is still real good in my opinion, especially if you like the winter battles near in the Kharkov sector. It is already news on the Steam forum that Mius will be importing an OP Star Scenario by the end of the year.Therefore, when you do go for Mius, snow will come eventually. Wink

Great news! I just found the post on steam:

"A small announcement of future DLC and updates:

Approximately until the end of the summer there will be another adapted DLC from Op Star Krasnaya Polyana (for those who want snow - here it will finally be snow)
- The DLC will receive an updated polygon, adjusted in accordance with the WWII era maps of the area, plus some technological improvements
- The operations will also be reworked in relation with the documents that have appeared, this concerns both the OOBs and the actions of the troops. It is likely that the quantity of operations will grow from two to four.
- Will be added a several types of new weather conditions: frosty weather and windy weather. "
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chaudard
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Posts: 271


« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2018, 06:30:32 PM »

Yes, it has been published on russian forum here yesterday  Smiley

I will buy it  Grin

I think SABOW (remastered since 2015) is far better than Steal Beasts, I still hope Graviteam will have time to enhance it to the latest GTOS engine (Andrey told about that some years ago).
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