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Author Topic: New update - March 04, 2019  (Read 3401 times)
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orson
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« on: March 04, 2019, 07:21:58 PM »

  First , thanks for the Panthers , they look great .

   now , this just confuses me ?

  2) Disabled the deployment option for units which had moved before the battle.

So now when I start a battle , those units have to start where ever they randomly land ?    Just why ?  Facepalm

So , you know that platoon with the 88's that arrived this turn ?
Yep .. what about it ?
Well , you cant move them anywhere .. so . .. you're screwed .


So .. you want to deploy the few units that did not move before the battle ?
And these units were here before the others arrived ...  
But I cant deploy where I want to because the units that turned up later ,  decided to stand around where I had planned to dig trenches .
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 07:52:15 PM by orson » Logged

andrey12345
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2019, 08:50:33 PM »

These changes are made so that tactical battles are not so uniform in terms of initial conditions. The newly arrived troops cannot take the most advantageous positions and are forced to turn around directly in the battle. I do not see anything strange here.
But you can arrive in advance and then you will be able to deploy the troops as you wish.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
orson
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2019, 09:23:12 PM »

The 88's are a good example of why this doesn't work . You cannot tow them .
I lost some mortars because they had to move due to illogical deployment , support weapons still just get lost if you move them .

This is such a big mechanic change , I only got 2 turns into the last DLC and now deployment just feels like a shit show .

"These changes are made so that tactical battles are not so uniform in terms of initial conditions. The newly arrived troops cannot take the most advantageous positions and are forced to turn around directly in the battle. I do not see anything strange here."

I just had a battle , some troops arrived after .  
The ones that were there the whole time should get to deploy first  , where ever they choose , because they were there before .
But as it stands now .. troops that arrived after can some how move through time , and stop troops from digging in , by deciding to stand where the positions were going to be .

Why would fresh troops into an area arrive facing away from the enemy ?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 09:26:47 PM by orson » Logged

andrey12345
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2019, 09:51:31 PM »

The 88's are a good example of why this doesn't work . You cannot tow them .
Why does not work?
Heavy cannons that suddenly got into battle without preparation will be unprepared for it.

I just had a battle , some troops arrived after .  
The ones that were there the whole time should get to deploy first  , where ever they choose , because they were there before .
But as it stands now .. troops that arrived after can some how move through time , and stop troops from digging in , by deciding to stand where the positions were going to be .
I do not understand what it means to move through time? Please provide screenshot.
The troops arriving on current turn cannot be deployed in advance and, therefore, can't move in time.

Why would fresh troops into an area arrive facing away from the enemy ?
Please show on the screenshots how it looks and what it means facing away from the enemy? Where do the units before meeting with the enemy know how they are facing to him?

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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
orson
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2019, 10:37:04 PM »

You seem distracted from my point . Please read again without my attempt at mild humor .

 "just had a battle , some troops arrived after . 
The ones that were there the whole time should get to deploy first  , where ever they choose , because they were there before ."
 Take this point first , you talk in terms of timeline , who arrived first or after etc etc .
So , in this case , the troops that were in the area first , and dug in .. should be able to deploy anywhere they want .

"But as it stands now .. troops that arrived after can stop troops from digging in , by deciding to stand where the positions were going to be . "
I cant explain that any clearer ?

And as for your question about why troops would not arrive facing away from the enemy ...
If I am defending an area , and my guns and troops are deployed facing a certain way .. explain please why any fresh troops arriving would not keep the same facing as the troops that were dug in , as it has already been determined where the enemy is , by virtue of the fact he is in front , not behind .

Same reason why 88's would not start a battle , in the middle of a field .. in front of my trenches .
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andrey12345
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 11:23:30 PM »

So , in this case , the troops that were in the area first , and dug in .. should be able to deploy anywhere they want .
I understand what you mean. Yes, this is an insoluble contradiction, as we essentially have units in each battle being re-exposed.
For turn based mode, such assumptions are inevitable.

Actually, the game has a lot of similar assumptions, such as a sequence of battles in the turn, changing the weather in the turn, digging trenches, etc.

And as for your question about why troops would not arrive facing away from the enemy ...
If I am defending an area , and my guns and troops are deployed facing a certain way .. explain please why any fresh troops arriving would not keep the same facing as the troops that were dug in , as it has already been determined where the enemy is , by virtue of the fact he is in front , not behind .

Because they have different tasks, and the enemy is also not some kind of single concentrated object. Well, and besides, they move, and the direction of movement does not always coincide with the direction of movement strictly at the enemy.
And naturally they will have a different facing.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 11:26:33 PM by andrey12345 » Logged

Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
orson
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2019, 12:27:08 AM »

Split deployment into 2 phases , 1st being initial troops who can dig in  ,  after this is complete .. the fresh troops will deploy into the area on the remaining ground available , hopefully into the areas already being defended .

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Juswick
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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2019, 02:27:08 AM »

I can't play it like this.

random deployment is indefensible literally and figuratively.

My best heavy unit deployed right at the front line instead of along the boarder of the map where they came from?

They are randomly deployed at the other end of the map ! This breaks the game and is intolerably annoying.

Here is a screen shot of my rocket artillery spotter. The most powerful and important unit in the battle group, deployed at the opposite edge of the map from where they came. It makes no sense. It is not realistic and
It is NOT FUN. At he very least, if you want to punish your self by playing like this, give us the option of turning it off so we can make our own decisions.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1009275106631114151/7022F50B88B67E5B63C8D670710FA2300C11BABD/
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 02:29:43 AM by Juswick » Logged
Juswick
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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2019, 02:42:25 AM »

If you have ever played total war series, they resolve this issue by having reinforcements arrive on the the edge of the map from which they came after the battle has started.

The idea that they would deloy the whole army randomly, piecemeal  and into nonsensical positions is laughably bad. And then you try to tell us it's more realistic !

How can we ever move battle groups toward the enemy again with out this happening?!  I am not going to play a single battle where my forces are deployed like this so it is game breaking.

I've bought every game and DLC, even the ones I don't play, just to support you guys and this is what we get. You change the whole game backward so I can't enjoy them any more .... sigh!
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orson
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2019, 09:14:09 AM »

I've bought every game and DLC, even the ones I don't play, just to support you guys and this is what we get. You change the whole game backward so I can't enjoy them any more .... sigh!

Exactly this .
Didnt even get to finish the new DLC .

You should have an alpha build that tests things like this . I know the RU side of the forum is more active .. was this discussed over there or anywhere ?
Feels like you woke up and decided to just change the game .
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andrey12345
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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2019, 11:09:57 AM »

You should have an alpha build that tests things like this .
Yes, it is. And beta, and external beta. But they are testing for bugs.
There are no bugs in this feature (at least not yet found), it works exactly as planned.

I know the RU side of the forum is more active .. was this discussed over there or anywhere ?
Yes, of course, like other innovations and features there is also discussing it. Probably even more dramatically than in the English part of the forums.

Feels like you woke up and decided to just change the game .
This is good.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
orson
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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 01:14:59 PM »

I dont speak or read Russian , maybe you could highlight a few posts that state how they love the new mechanic ... and how it improved gameplay .
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andrey12345
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 03:58:31 PM »

I dont speak or read Russian , maybe you could highlight a few posts that state how they love the new mechanic ... and how it improved gameplay .

There is even a vote about this feature.

But this time the Russian-speaking community much more constructively than the English-speaking community, usually always the other way around.

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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
orson
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2019, 04:49:22 PM »

There is even a vote about this feature.

But this time the Russian-speaking community much more constructively than the English-speaking community, usually always the other way around.


I am pretty active on this forum .
A vote about this feature ?  OK I must have missed that one .. was it in English ?
How could I vote , when the first time I encounter it , is after its downloaded and installed .

Why not just make it a choice .. like artillery .
It should read

 2) Added the ability to disable the deployment option for units which had moved before the battle.

Either that or we go back to an old post I made called  " how do you want me to play? "
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andrey12345
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2019, 08:39:30 PM »

New blocking rules entered:
1) if the platoon moved farther than 1 square on operational map
2) if the platoon moved and did not attack but got attacked
3) if the platoon was ambushed
4) scouts are not blocked

Platoons are placed strictly near the place where they are located on the operational map (if it possible).

P.S. If any insurmountable difficulties arise again, write in this topic preferably with screens of the situation from the operational and tactical maps.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
orson
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« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2019, 11:46:09 PM »


This is fun . This is also a minefield .



I still don't feel the new mechanic helps game play .
 
Arriving unit was positioned straddling a minefield on the rail line .
This would not have been my first choice as a deployment area .


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andrey12345
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2019, 04:41:32 PM »

This is fun .
This is not a fun, but a bug due to the fact that in this area the placement of equipment is possible in a small number of places. And it is already fixed.


Arriving unit was positioned straddling a minefield on the rail line .
This would not have been my first choice as a deployment area .
It is your choice, it is you who determines where the Battle Group will arrive and whether it will be prepared for battle (and you can place its units) or not.
If you move a Battle Group into nodes with minefields under a possible enemy strike, you shouldn't regret that something went wrong. This is your choice.

The computer will simply put the units of the Battle group near the node where you moved it, nothing more.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
orson
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2019, 06:15:21 PM »

What was your aim with this change .. to make it easier for the AI opponent or harder for player ?
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andrey12345
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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2019, 09:35:45 PM »

What was your aim with this change ..
The main goal is to increase the variety of battles, due to the fact that the initial conditions are different, and not always like in chess - placed the pieces and started the game.
A side effect, the player is restricted to spam the enemy with endless attacks, they must be prepared, otherwise there is a risk of getting a block. This indirectly also gives a variety of options - you can attack rapidly, but the position may not be advantageous, or attack with preparation.

to make it easier for the AI opponent or harder for player ?
Both - not
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
orson
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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2019, 11:55:01 PM »

You are forcing me to micro manage a game that does not like being micro managed .

This is not compelling gameplay . I do not have the time to play for two hour battles . If you force me to relocate by not allowing initial placement ,  then I have to tow guns and port mortars , none of this is possible when the AI shells your position at the start of the game .
Spend 20 min plotting waypoints , just to watch the AI completely ignore it , within 10 mins its a shit show , everyone is out of transports and I have to re-plot waypoints .

I like to set up my troops and sit back and watch the action , maybe counter attack when I feel its time .

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