ME question

[frinik]

 Tommorow guys as I am still testing some things in a mission I modified usiong Iceman's indications!

[frinik]

 OK what I am doing with the sector option is not terribly mysterious.What I have done is placed some AT, Flack and Marders on amap with an incoming heavy Soviet attack( it's one of my combat mission in which you are the Sov player).I put a defence script for the respective zones where the units are.Then I simply enter a sector and using the slider hailstones underneath (that what it's called in my ME)I am ascribing a rotation angle in degrees(the slider is set at 0 by default, to go all the way to + 180 moving it to the right and to minus 180 moving it all the way to the left) until I find the right bearing.The problem is that there's no compass on the maps in the ME so you have to figure out where the North,East,West and South are in orert o give your units proper direction.I naively through that perhaps the maps were automaically defaulted to the top of the map being the North, the bottom the South, left the East and right the West.But my assumptions were not correct.You have to find where the North is on a particular map before you can ascribe the desired rotation angle to your units so they face the incoming opponent.It works but you really have to experiment .It would have bene helpful to have a compass included with each map in the ME or at least some arrows indicating North and South.There's got to be way of finding out the proper direction.May be in the layers which are used by the units you place on a map can you find the location???

I'll let you know.

[Iceman]

  Iceman is there a command in the Mission Editor that can help the AI not fall into rivers or lakes?

In the editor of missions of such commands isn't present. AI itself should define impassable zones for tanks.
For example, if depth of water is more than 0,5 meters, or at considerable differences of heights in a square 2x2 meter (defines only from a texture of heights during generation of polygon).

P.S. It is possible to put forbidding zones only in the editor of polygons(maps) when you create the polygon(map).

[Iceman]

OK what I am doing with the sector option is not terribly mysterious.What I have done is placed some AT, Flack and Marders on amap with an incoming heavy Soviet attack( it's one of my combat mission in which you are the Sov player).I put a defence script for the respective zones where the units are.Then I simply enter a sector and using the slider hailstones underneath (that what it's called in my ME)I am ascribing a rotation angle in degrees(the slider is set at 0 by default, to go all the way to + 180 moving it to the right and to minus 180 moving it all the way to the left) until I find the right bearing.The problem is that there's no compass on the maps in the ME so you have to figure out where the North,East,West and South are in orert o give your units proper direction.I naively through that perhaps the maps were automaically defaulted to the top of the map being the North, the bottom the South, left the East and right the West.But my assumptions were not correct.You have to find where the North is on a particular map before you can ascribe the desired rotation angle to your units so they face the incoming opponent.It works but you really have to experiment .It would have bene helpful to have a compass included with each map in the ME or at least some arrows indicating North and South.There's got to be way of finding out the proper direction.May be in the layers which are used by the units you place on a map can you find the location???

I'll let you know.

All maps are focused to the north (but the editor remembers last position of the camera before exit).
For instant turn of a map to the north use keys Numpad5(twice) and CTRL+Numpad5

To take a correct angle use this button


P.S. For easy navigation of the camera in the editor you can hold down Right Mouse Button for moving and Middle Mouse Button to rotate.

[frinik]

  Thanks for the useful tip Iceman!

[hemisent]

Iceman, thanks for the valuable tips for pointing the map north. Also, the part about positions and layers. It all helps a lot.

  I'm wondering if there is a quick way to zoom in when using the ME. Getting a sore finger scrolling my mouse wheel down,down,down to zero in on a desired area. I know that I can center on a zone by using the binocular icon in the toolbar but that still leaves you way out in the disatance.

[Kyth]

  I'm wondering if there is a quick way to zoom in when using the ME. Getting a sore finger scrolling my mouse wheel down,down,down to zero in on a desired area. I know that I can center on a zone by using the binocular icon in the toolbar but that still leaves you way out in the disatance.

The 'Right-Ctrl 5' key command will toggle down to ground level.

[Iceman]

  I'm wondering if there is a quick way to zoom in when using the ME. Getting a sore finger scrolling my mouse wheel down,down,down to zero in on a desired area. I know that I can center on a zone by using the binocular icon in the toolbar but that still leaves you way out in the disatance.

The 'Right-Ctrl 5' key command will toggle down to ground level.

and CRTL+F for jump to selected contour

[Kyth]

Iceman,

Now I have a question about the Mission Editor too. 

What do the script commands "load_gv" and "save_gv" do, and how do I use them in a script?
The editor manual isn't very clear about how to define a 'global variable' - is it a Null trigger, or is it defined elsewhere?
Or maybe, like the "ai_rotate", it doesn't really function?

(Okay, my 3 questions = 1 question  )

A thought: Does the game AI take into account the terrain and decide it doesn't like the placement I chose for a good defense?

yes

-------

I've looked over the missions that used 'ai_defense' and it looks like the AI definitely kicks in:

• Units prefer to go into 'hull-down' position; which may not be hull-down relative to the enemy 
• Units appear to prefer the rear-slope vs forward-slope as a defense position; again, not always the correct choice vs the enemy.
• Units appear to go looking for some combination of the above, and charge ahead if no suitable position's found

'Hull-down' positions are obscured by terrain, 250m - 500m out.
That might explain why they point the wrong way, sometimes 

[frinik]

  iceman i have a question of my own.The sector script in which you give the rotation axis to the unit of your choice(from - 180 to + 180) should it be enabled first in your line of script?I have tried to impart a direction to my units using the rorate AI function and itr works Ok with infantry and guns bu the tanks and APCs keep looking towards the North no matter what I tell them to do through the sector script( i ahev tried 45, 90, 180, 135, -45 dgrees and no go they just are facing the north at the onset of a mission?Could this be a bug in the coding? Or something I am nto doing right?
Please advise.

Thanks

[Kyth]

  iceman i have a question of my own.The sector script in which you give the rotation axis to the unit of your choice(from - 180 to + 180) should it be enabled first in your line of script?I have tried to impart a direction to my units using the rorate AI function and itr works Ok with infantry and guns bu the tanks and APCs keep looking towards the North no matter what I tell them to do through the sector script( i ahev tried 45, 90, 180, 135, -45 dgrees and no go they just are facing the north at the onset of a mission?Could this be a bug in the coding? Or something I am nto doing right?
Please advise.

Thanks

Exactly the results I got, they're all like little compasses, always pointing north 

[Kyth]

Could you maybe post your script file of this test?

but I don't know how command "sector" works either
Perhaps, it's smth vs "sector fire".

Perhaps the all knowing, magical, mystical Kyth might know

Half-knowing Kyth would venture a guess that the sector / rotate command doesn't work for AFV's.

He would recommend looking at the 'lay of the land' to see whether defense zones are satisfactory to the AI.

Kyth would also recommend experimenting to see which is which.

In his great mercy, he will now stop referring to himself in the third-person. 

[hemisent]

  iceman i have a question of my own.The sector script in which you give the rotation axis to the unit of your choice(from - 180 to + 180) should it be enabled first in your line of script?I have tried to impart a direction to my units using the rorate AI function and itr works Ok with infantry and guns bu the tanks and APCs keep looking towards the North no matter what I tell them to do through the sector script( i ahev tried 45, 90, 180, 135, -45 dgrees and no go they just are facing the north at the onset of a mission?Could this be a bug in the coding? Or something I am nto doing right?
Please advise.

Thanks

I've pretty much mirrored the above with tank units and no luck whatever. Haven't tried any other units yet. Playing with the directional arrows has no effect. And after actually inspecting the lay of the land I agree that my units do seem to search for the best terrain, still always pointing north wherever they choose to park.

[Iceman]

Iceman,

Now I have a question about the Mission Editor too. 

What do the script commands "load_gv" and "save_gv" do, and how do I use them in a script?

I don't know . I never used this command, and I think that our programmers will also don't remember any more

I've looked over the missions that used 'ai_defense' and it looks like the AI definitely kicks in:

• Units prefer to go into 'hull-down' position; which may not be hull-down relative to the enemy 
• Units appear to prefer the rear-slope vs forward-slope as a defense position; again, not always the correct choice vs the enemy.
• Units appear to go looking for some combination of the above, and charge ahead if no suitable position's found

'Hull-down' positions are obscured by terrain, 250m - 500m out.
That might explain why they point the wrong way, sometimes 

If in command ai_defence aren't specified exact contours (position), then divisions will search for special tactical places for defense within the zone set by you (250-500 m).
For example, for most of the trenches for the tanks and infantry in the polygons(maps) was added special tactical features. If divisions don't find in a zone for defense of such places they will search for something approaching, and will probably find not so good place.
AI here isn't ideal.

  iceman i have a question of my own.The sector script in which you give the rotation axis to the unit of your choice(from - 180 to + 180) should it be enabled first in your line of script?I have tried to impart a direction to my units using the rorate AI function and itr works Ok with infantry and guns bu the tanks and APCs keep looking towards the North no matter what I tell them to do through the sector script( i ahev tried 45, 90, 180, 135, -45 dgrees and no go they just are facing the north at the onset of a mission?Could this be a bug in the coding? Or something I am nto doing right?
Please advise.

Thanks

You can use not only command ai_rotate. You can set a direction for the technician and infantry by contours.
Press the button #1 (from picture) and you will appoint all to contour points an identical direction by default.


Here you can see that the tanks before the start of the mission are turned in the necessary direction (not North). Also, when divisions become in contours for defense, they will be guided how contour points are turned.


-----
P.S. Also forgive me my bad English
P.P.S. to frinik. Please, put space characters between a dots and the first letters of the following offer. As I spoke - my English is poor, and my stupid auto-translator can't decipher it.
P.P.P.S. I joke. I put space characters in the auto-translator manually 

[frinik]

  Thank you very much Iceman and don't worry your English is quite fine!

Thanks for coming to this forum as your presence is very much appreciated with all the unaswered questions we all have!


Everything you say help us enjoy this great game that Graviteam made

[lockie]

Here is a simple script to check out how command "ai_rotate" works. And u may see that this command doesn't work at all. The infantry(almost all soldiers) is always looks to the north and tank to the west. It doesn't matter what degrees to rotate u'll apply or which direction the contours are oriented.

Code:

//script
sc_sov_move_01()
{

	ext, ai_form, 2;
	ext, ai_setstate, 0, 0x2;
	ext, ai_move, sov_tac_01, false, -1, 15;
	ext, ai_exit, false;
	ext, ai_form, 0;
	ext, ai_defence, sov_def_01, 10, 500;
	ext, ai_rotate, 180;
	wait_time, 1;
	ext, ai_rotate, 180;
	wait_time, 1;
	ext, ai_rotate, -90;
	wait_time, 1;
	ext, ai_rotate, 90;
	wait_time, 1;
	ext, ai_rotate, -45;
}

//positions
cs_positions()
{
	ext, add_trench, 0, sov_inf_def_02, -1, 0, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 0, sov_inf_def_01, -1, 0, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 0, sov_inf_def_03, -1, 0, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 1, sov_pos_teh_01, 1, 1, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 1, sov_pos_teh_02, 1, 1, sov_def_01;
	ext, add_trench, 1, sov_pos_teh_03, 1, 1, sov_def_01;
}

[hemisent]

 I'm finding that when in the ME and I pull up the scripts file to edit it I notice that whatever changes I make manually are never saved. I can Save/Reload as often as I can and still nothing saves. If I go into the actual directory and modify the scripts file it saves in the directory but not in the ME's version of it. Only if I save the directory file then start the game itself, then exit will I find my changes are now in the ME's version. What am I doing wrong here?

 Also, starting to get into editing, placing map symbols and texts...boy that's another can of worms, Sheesh!


Cheers all
H

[Kyth]

I'm finding that when in the ME and I pull up the scripts file to edit it I notice that whatever changes I make manually are never saved. I can Save/Reload as often as I can and still nothing saves.

The script file can be saved separately. I assume you use Notepad, so just save the file using Notepad first, before closing it. Back in the Mission Editor, don't save again, just reload the mission for the script-file changes to take effect.

Also, starting to get into editing, placing map symbols and texts...boy that's another can of worms, Sheesh!

Now, that's the most fun part (after AI testing) 

[Iceman]

Here is a simple script to check out how command "ai_rotate" works. And u may see that this command doesn't work at all. The infantry(almost all soldiers) is always looks to the north and tank to the west. It doesn't matter what degrees to rotate u'll apply or which direction the contours are oriented.

maybe really bug in command ai_rotate

[hemisent]

Also, starting to get into editing, placing map symbols and texts...boy that's another can of worms, Sheesh!


Now, that's the most fun part (after AI testing) 

 And guess who I think has most of the answers........