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Author Topic: Feedback, suggestion and bug thread  (Read 87285 times)
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lavish
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« on: November 11, 2011, 07:03:06 PM »

The title says it all. Now let's get to the point.  Smiley

Heavy weapon disabled (or immobilized?)
I get this message sometimes with german 50mm mortar initially after I end the deployment phase. The mortar cannot be moved at all, though it doesn't have taken any damage. So far I haven't encountered this bug with other mortars.

Vehicles getting stuck
Vehicles may sometimes get stuck in dense forests and urban areas. I mean that they keep on going against an obstacle and do not know how to reverse properly and take a new path. Many times I can manually order them to reverse and everything is ok then, but this requires micromanagement from a player. Sometimes, however, they get immobolized like halftracks driving slowly on a building and flipping over on its back - with style! Grin No formation movement modifiers were set during these accidents.

A.I. making fire preparations (artillery) on neutral keypoints in the beginning of the battle
I've seen A.I firing a rocket barrage on neutral keypoint immediately in the beginning of a battle. There's no chance that my troops could have moved there in under 2 minutes. I was defending and I only had one square with one keypoint under my control and still A.I. decided to bomb empty field.

Keypoints and circles around/near them
I've seen circles marked with dotted line around some keypoints. Is this the area where my troops need to be to hold/capture a keypoint? If so, why a keypoint is outside of the circle like near school of Taranovka? Is this intentional? And why this circle is not around every keypoint?



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andrey12345
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 09:00:12 PM »

Heavy weapon disabled (or immobilized?)
I get this message sometimes with german 50mm mortar initially after I end the deployment phase. The mortar cannot be moved at all, though it doesn't have taken any damage. So far I haven't encountered this bug with other mortars.

Yes, there is a bug and a very long time, unfortunately we can not reproduce.

Vehicles getting stuck
Vehicles may sometimes get stuck in dense forests and urban areas. I mean that they keep on going against an obstacle and do not know how to reverse properly and take a new path. Many times I can manually order them to reverse and everything is ok then, but this requires micromanagement from a player. Sometimes, however, they get immobolized like halftracks driving slowly on a building and flipping over on its back - with style! Grin No formation movement modifiers were set during these accidents.

This behavior is changed in a patch, but of course to drive through forests and villages not on the road is not desirable, as in real life it can lead to jamming or reversal for vehicles.

A.I. making fire preparations (artillery) on neutral keypoints in the beginning of the battle
I've seen A.I firing a rocket barrage on neutral keypoint immediately in the beginning of a battle. There's no chance that my troops could have moved there in under 2 minutes. I was defending and I only had one square with one keypoint under my control and still A.I. decided to bomb empty field.
It's not a bug. AI is not spying for the actions of the player and the location of player's units, in other words not a cheater. Therefore, it may "proactively" shelling suspected sites, including the neutral squares. Actually just like in real life is not necessary to go shelling targets are mistakes.


Keypoints and circles around/near them
I've seen circles marked with dotted line around some keypoints. Is this the area where my troops need to be to hold/capture a keypoint? If so, why a keypoint is outside of the circle like near school of Taranovka? Is this intentional? And why this circle is not around every keypoint?
It's not a bug. Such a circle (on map) means intelligence data - for example, that the enemy will defend this square, or arrange an ambush there (presumably, if a circle around the key point, it is likely to defend this point). But as with any intelligence data that may not be accurate (in real life and in our game).




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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
Danielefc
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 11:40:03 AM »

Defensive positions not firing:

I find that placing most weapons but specially AT guns and Heavy MGs in trenches actually hurt their ability to fire alot(!). Its always a problem but just to give an example here is what happened in one game:

I had a perfect ambush setup in a little village and when the enemy attacked i was also abit lucky. They came from the angle i had covered with a heavy MG and a 7,5 AT gun (both in trenches). The MG was 3-400 meters from enemy and the AT gun about 300. Closer to the enemy where to dug in infantry platoons. But the MG almost never fired and the AT gun only got of 2 shots on the single KV-1 coming up the road (KV-1 managed to get of 10-12 shots in the same time.)

Lines of sight and fire where perfect, i had an arty barrage on the attack area. Still the tank managed to charge through the infantry trenches and just crush the gun under its tracks. All looked very cool i must say. And in the end I did win but no thanks to the MG or AT gun at all. Rather my arty barrage shattered the enemy infantry and the tank eventually ran out of ammo and i could charge it with infantry.


Anyway - too put it shortly: I find dug in MGs and AT guns very very inefficient.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 11:44:33 AM by Danielefc » Logged
andrey12345
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 02:15:51 PM »

If you dig in the gun, then you need to follow the arc of fire. That is, you like to exchange guns protection vs a sector of fire.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
lavish
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Posts: 208


« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 03:04:42 PM »

Hey, here's a collection of bugs and suggestions,or ideas for future development of the game(s):

Bugs

Achievement: Terror of tanks (25 tanks destroyed)
- I only destroyed 5 and got this achievement


Suggestions for APOS (and SABOW)

1. Force player to play battles in a certain order on the operational map
- It's a disadvantage for AI if a player can deside the order and area of a battle

2. Add smoke grenades for infantry
- Gives slightly more time for infantry to survive under heavy fire

3. Show vehicle damage text only for player
- Add an option to show inflicted damage only above player's vehicles

4. Urban assault / clear houses
- Units attack and clear all nearby houses as they advance (not just run past them and get shot in the back  Wink)
- Maybe include this as a modifier(?)

5. Movement modifier: Vehicles on roads only
- Add an option for movement modifier that only vehicles of selected units drive on a road
- Infantry don't use roads with this modifier
- Infantry can assault villages and forests while vehicles stay / advance along the roads giving fire support. Very handy for player and AI too!

6. Show or visualize number of units + casualties of platoons and squads on the unit panel (= right top corner of the screen ).
- Easy and fast way to check strength of your platoons and squads!

7. Add / modify artillery control panel
- Give an option to show artillery panel without selecting a spotter
- Show all the spotters and corresponding artillery batteries on that panel
- Show both on map and off map artillery units there
- Give possibility to adjust the number of shots for on map mortars per fire mission

-> 8. Ground fire: Only for units / mgs near their squad leader

-> 9. Possibility to make a squad leader automatically guide indirect fire of platoon's mortar
- Would be especially handy for SABOW and when there's lots of units
- No need to micromanage fire of several single mortars

Smiley
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 03:18:56 PM by lavish » Logged
randall.flagg
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Posts: 98


« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 03:30:06 PM »

Heavy weapon disabled (or immobilized?)
I get this message sometimes with german 50mm mortar initially after I end the deployment phase. The mortar cannot be moved at all, though it doesn't have taken any damage. So far I haven't encountered this bug with other mortars.


Andrey Ive seen something similar in the quick battles.  The German 50mm mortar wont fire because it seems to be out of ammo.  Is this the same bug?
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andrey12345
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 07:33:11 PM »

Achievement: Terror of tanks (25 tanks destroyed)
- I only destroyed 5 and got this achievement
Checked

1. Force player to play battles in a certain order on the operational map
- It's a disadvantage for AI if a player can deside the order and area of a battle
I don't understand it  Huh?

2. Add smoke grenades for infantry
- Gives slightly more time for infantry to survive under heavy fire
In long-range plans

3. Show vehicle damage text only for player
- Add an option to show inflicted damage only above player's vehicles
In squad panel its only for player


6. Show or visualize number of units + casualties of platoons and squads on the unit panel (= right top corner of the screen ).
- Easy and fast way to check strength of your platoons and squads!

This place is full

7. Add / modify artillery control panel
- Give an option to show artillery panel without selecting a spotter
No place for it

-> 8. Ground fire: Only for units / mgs near their squad leader

In long plans
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
andrey12345
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 07:33:52 PM »

Heavy weapon disabled (or immobilized?)
I get this message sometimes with german 50mm mortar initially after I end the deployment phase. The mortar cannot be moved at all, though it doesn't have taken any damage. So far I haven't encountered this bug with other mortars.


Andrey Ive seen something similar in the quick battles.  The German 50mm mortar wont fire because it seems to be out of ammo.  Is this the same bug?
If you do not have shells that he should not shoot
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
hamrock
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Posts: 91


« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 08:03:29 PM »

Suggestion:

Field fortifications, barbed wire and bunkers.  Heavy MG34. Emplaced mines. Sniper teams for both sides.

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randall.flagg
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 08:22:33 PM »

Heavy weapon disabled (or immobilized?)
I get this message sometimes with german 50mm mortar initially after I end the deployment phase. The mortar cannot be moved at all, though it doesn't have taken any damage. So far I haven't encountered this bug with other mortars.


Andrey Ive seen something similar in the quick battles.  The German 50mm mortar wont fire because it seems to be out of ammo.  Is this the same bug?



If you do not have shells that he should not shoot


OK thats makes sense but in a quick battle shouldnt all the units have ammo?
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anon
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 02:07:26 AM »

Yo Andrei,

Would it be possible to get an HD version of the icon for the .exe? The red star is nice, but its resolution sucks.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 08:29:34 AM »

OK thats makes sense but in a quick battle shouldnt all the units have ammo?

Yes all units in qbattle have ammo if you don't change it in q.battle options.
Can you describe the situation in more detail?
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
hamrock
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 10:37:28 AM »

The latest  DLC has some very good looking summer troops. Even NKVD with their distinctive green tabs.  Now please consider the SS troops. Currently a Heer figure represents these.  Would you consider the SS troops in camo smocks?   It all adds to the immersion.
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randall.flagg
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 12:55:43 PM »

I know Ive mentioned this several times in other threads but I didnt want to the feedback/suggestion thread to be without mention of it.

Redesign the Operation Editor.
At least to the point where it isnt necessary to manually edit text files to add units to an operation. 
You have an excellant wargame engine here and its shown it can do tank simulations and eastern front wargames very well.  But to be the huge success you deserve you need to add multiplayer and make the Operation editor far easier to use.  Because the AI is better than most other titles in the genre multiplayer can wait until you have the time and funding to add it in the future.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 08:50:25 PM »

I know Ive mentioned this several times in other threads but I didnt want to the feedback/suggestion thread to be without mention of it.

Redesign the Operation Editor.
At least to the point where it isnt necessary to manually edit text files to add units to an operation. 
It's dont have a sense.
For 2 years did not have much desire to do something in it by players.

But editor in current state allows developers to fast build of operations.
Any improvements is a waste time.
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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
randall.flagg
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2012, 09:14:42 PM »

But editor...Any improvements is a waste time.

OK your call, but in the end your going to end up hurting your sales.
Vladimir mentioned in an interview for Armchairgeneral.com that that most users didnt use the editor in steel fury so you werent planning to improve it. That was incorrect,  its not that the steel fury customers didnt want to use the editor, we did.  Its that the op editor is not intuitive at all.  My point is he was blaming us when he should have been building a more intuitive editor. 
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andrey12345
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2012, 09:52:30 PM »

OK your call, but in the end your going to end up hurting your sales.
May be but may be not. Sales of SF (with editor, yes  Grin), is very poor.

One thing I can say for sure that sales in general don't depend from some specific features.

Vladimir mentioned in an interview for Armchairgeneral.com that that most users didnt use the editor in steel fury so you werent planning to improve it.
It's totally right. In december 2011 editor has major upgrade. In Jan12 patch - minor upgrade. This trend will continue in the future.

But these improvements will be directed to _accelerate the development_ of operations. Not chewing on the obvious, or questionable replacing for operation template creation with super fast method Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V to some garbage with GUI, etc.

Its that the op editor is not intuitive at all.  My point is he was blaming us when he should have been building a more intuitive editor. 
It's a very simple. Simplest than SF editor in 10 times or more. But with another conception.

For example:
SF editor 2x2 km area + 1 mission = 1-3 day for creation
APOS editor 10x10 km area + 1 operation (up to 20 missions in terms of SF) = 1-3 hour to creation

Sorry but SF editor is really suxx  Grin
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 10:00:16 PM by andrey12345 » Logged

Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
KEYSTONE07950
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 10:05:22 PM »

Can someone do a step by step (for us dummies) tutorial on how to use the operations editor?  What I need is an explanation of what folders to set up and what files go in which folders.  Pretty Please? Smiley
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randall.flagg
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 10:39:10 PM »

Andrey, I see your points.  And you know your sales, your available resources, and your code.  I dont.  The AP series is measured against Battlefront's Combat Mission series.  And the AP series outshines the CM series in every area except the editor and multiplay.  So if you do nothing else youve still scored quite a coup.
    I hear your reluctance to put more resources into an editor that does exactly what you want it do. But your a programmer, you may think "GUI's are for dummies".  We're users, and we need GUI's.
Regardless, thank you for discussing it and responding to my concerns.
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andrey12345
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2012, 11:27:32 PM »

The AP series is measured against Battlefront's Combat Mission series.  And the AP series outshines the CM series in every area except the editor and multiplay.  So if you do nothing else youve still scored quite a coup.

Each game has its own features. Let CM be our own and AP our own.
For 10 years, the development of CM, its editor and multiplay a very well. We do not make sense to strike where our positions are weak.

I hear your reluctance to put more resources into an editor that does exactly what you want it do. But your a programmer, you may think "GUI's are for dummies".  We're users, and we need GUI's.
No, of course good GUI it's a great. But it really slows down the development of the game in our case. Since for the development does not need it, but spend time on it instead of the game need a lot.

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Реклама для игры показывала отличную графику и обещала стратегию и тактику Второй мировой войны. На самом деле не было ни графики, ни стратегии, ни тактики. Игра представляла собой серию грубых иконок, которые при нажатии ничего не делали, кроме отображения текста.
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