Graviteam

Says it all right there.  Got SO use to them I miss them when not there.   :'( ;D

I guess some of the old APOS DLC campaigns haven't been upgraded to GTOS standards.

Well sokolovo the AI controlled zis3's and infantry LOVE to just stupid attack the germans.  I thought they where suppose to defend.  Pissed me off and turned player controls ai BUT that makes your entire force retarded as their experience level drops to nothing. 

LOL I might try and mod solovoko to 1 get the defending Red army AI guys to defend and not go on an insane attack right into a billion tanks and half tracks..  and 2 maybe get the CZ guys some Russian telegraph operators.  LOL  Maybe not LOL.  Might as well just make a campaign based right off of it instead.  Man I just want to GOOF off right now, not make stuff..   :P

Some players would appreciate a German campaign for Sokolovo,it would be a good chance to do both.

Sokolovo has been in need of an upgrade for awhile.I always thought the map was excellent but needed improvements since it was too barren in some areas and too dense in others.
Graviteam needs to pull some of the trees out of the dense forrest areas and plant a few along the roads and open fields to give it a more interesting and balanced feel.Those dense forests are a real FPS killer and the open fields are uninteresting for QBs.

Would be a cake walk for Germans with current.  I could DO a BASED on that goes semi historical...  Ai is NOT smart enough to place that few AT guns and to actually stand a chance against the force against it.  But keeping German force the same... well add in the telegraph guys...  I will think about it.  Currently jumped into a massive project in RO2.  I have been playing GTOS when NOT working on my bit of that. 

I don't think the Germans had as many tanks and halftracks in the real battle as they do in that campaign.

Well since the 2 ai controlled zis 3 batterys are toast after turn 3 or 4 due to their suicide charge you get left with 1 cz zis battery and 1 of 45mm.  I have NEVER finished this campaign as I get pissed off or loose interest.  I do not see how the hell you can hold the town south of the river...  The other side with stalling ya.... once the tanks show up.  But never get that far.  OH and all your infantry are insane low skill level. 

I think I played that campaign around Easter and was able to decimate the German mech forces and keep the tanks at bay till I tried a stupid counter attack near the bridge and lost all my armor and then gave up.

LOL.  You gave up the town and went north?  I am giving it another go.  Just letting them have the south of the town and stuffing as much stuff into 3 squares as possible.  I hope the ai trys to do a land grab OTHER places and does not attack in mass.  I got this DLC on release way back.  But UGH only one I never finished at least 1 campaign.  Still have not played the iran side in prophet all the way either...

Not exactly,I fortified the areas around the stone buildings and entrenched my AT guns along the river where I had a better LOS and did a night counter attack  with the armor that meted out some death and destruction to the recon and pioneer troops initially till I pushed the attack to far past the bridge in the next battle and ran into the arty guns and flame tanks who destroyed my whole armored force.

By that time my AT guns were already destroyed near the river and the German tanks still left were mopping up what was left of my forces in the town and I didn't think I had a chance with the forces I had left north of the river.
Losing all the armor broke my spirit and I retreated or actually quit!

never made it to turn 9 for my tanks to show up....

Oh gawd....turn 1 went real bad.   :'(  My 1 poor infantry squad Vs 6 of whatever od theres.  I had them as a speed bump with an il2 spotter.  Called them in... SO many mg's lighting up the IL2's.  1 run by each and off they went flying off screen.  Made 1 hit on 1 infantry guy.  Then I retreated....no chance as my squad was getting hit with everything. 

Awaiting their arrival was the only thing that kept me from throwing in the towel earlier as I watched my infantry and AT guns getting slaughtered and/or cowering in the buildings .My AT guns got in some good licks before they were knocked out and my arty kept the Germans from overrunning my troops in the town,but as soon as my tanks showed up I wanted revenge and some pay back!

I should have left it at that with the initial success of the counter attack and went back on the defense instead of trying to push my luck and win the whole battle that night.

Another thing about the Sokolovo map I find interesting if I go by the book "last Victory in Russia" by George Nipes.

He states in his book that the line units of the 320th infantry were not in or around Taranovka during Feb. 12-18 but were moving into the area North of the Mzha near Merefa while other units of the division who linked up with Pieper  went into defensive positions around Krasnaya Polyana covering the RR into Kharkov from Chuguyev and  tying in with the other 320th units defending Merefa.

Nipes does place a training and replacement battalion in the Sokolovo area along with some security units(Don't know if the T&R  Battalion was the for the 320th or some other unit).

But while the 320th was taking up positions around Krasnaya Polyana and Merefa  units of the LSSAH were forming up in Merefa to counter attack South to cut off the Soviet units that were trying to cut the last remaining RR line into Kharkov and encircle the city from the South.

So if going by Nipes book it seems that the link up was with the training and replacement battalion near Sokolovo and the unit that would have done this was the LSSAH Pioneer Battalion since it was covering the left flank of the 1st LSSAH regiment while it passed thru Taranovka to attack Bereka.

The Pioneer Battalion wasn't all mech. either  some of the specialist engineers rode in 1/2 tracks but the majority were truck motorized and basically operated on foot.

I've played a few QBs trying to simulate this situation were the Pioneer bat. tries to link up with the T&B battalion and attached security units it was very interesting and fun.

I like the polygon for this old DLC...  reminds me of old k43.  BUT damnit I hate how this mission is layed out.  I have the ai controls allys ON.  Which is totally screwing me! I turn it off all the units you take control of drop down to shelled experience just like your CZ infantry!  Quite annoying!  But if the AI would JUST TRY and hold the right and left flanks with their zis3's instead of suicide attacking and dragging some of my units into hopeless fights.... At least I can say flee the battle field after a few shots get fired.  LOL 


I think I MIGHT be able to hold out till the tanks get here.  BUT damned!  I think taking the hit and setting player controls AI is the way to go.  Should just get set to that IMO.  That way no loosing skill to nothing if you select it. 

On the 1st night battle now.  Think I am going to try and let the germans into West solovako.  Once their dump an entire battery of bm13 rockets on them.   :P  Then open up with the zis 3 and everything else. 


And at least 1 more platoon of field engineers!   ;D  I like suicide troops with satchel charges...what can I say?

So I guess that so far is what I would like to see in this campaign..


Telegraph troops.
Set up the Red Army troops under player control...OR set them to only hold and never attack EVER!  Well maybe once the tanks arrive.
1 more field engineer platoon.
Set cz infantry to regular NOT shelled experience! 

The Germans are missing a lot of there halftracks.  Units that SHOULD have them seem to be missing?  I noticed this too in another campaign.  Some units are missing their wheels. 

I like the map too.
But hardly any of the fighting during the Sokolovo campaign takes place on the lower half of the map.

I use the map quite a bit for QBs and Pershotravnevoye is one of my favorite villages to fight over,but the surrounding forest is a little to dense and really lowers the FPS during my battles and some of these areas of the map are completely barren like a snow desert or so dense that I completely avoid these areas and end up fighting over the "same old,same old" grid squares.

I think it could use an upgrade like some of the other maps and campaigns,and could use a German campaign mission also.A little TLC could turn a good map into a great map.

Well my super awesome defense did not quite work 100 percent..  Ok it work 50 percent.  But experience level 20 makes all the infantry and at rifle guy next to useless.  How the hell can this be right?  Going to loose the town for sure.  Lost most of my at guns.  Well I do still have my zis 3 ....for now.  But 4 more turns till the tanks show..  This town simply can not be held with what you get..  At least with ai controlling the 2 other zis 3 ...well 1 now as the ai rambo with one of them. Best bet Now for me is to pop smoke and head north.  But most of my dumb head units will not make it. 

But Dane you are right about the polygon....  its pretty good and does deserve something more than this campaign.  I do NOT remember this being this impossible when I 1st tried this a couple years back..  granted I did not get far ..  but this OMG how is this right?    :P ::) :'(

If it's any consolation the Czech's  lost the town also.

There is a movie on Youtube about this battle showing the Czechs putting up a heroic defense as the Germans bum rush the town burning everything in their path with flame throwing APCs.

I've read accounts of the battle where the Czechs didn't really do that well and the battle was far from heroic.

Ya, that explains the experience set to 20 then.  Makes doing anything tuff.

The German Army Panzer units in the area 6th and 11th weren't faring all that well either.
They had taken a lot of punishment before and during the battles South of Kharkov and were close to being considered combat ineffective.

They were suppose to sweep around the south edge of Kharkov and link up with the SS units surrounding the city from the north but they ran out of steam and the Germans rushed a fresh infantry division up to take their place in the line and sent the Pz divs to the Vadolga area to rest and refit,but Von Manstein  countered the order and told them to continue the attack and effect a link up with the 3rd SS.

The 2 Pz divs. weren't up to the task and acted too slow and sluggish and the SS decided to take the city of Kharkov by assault before the Russian units in the city had a chance to escape.
Most escaped anyways and the SS ended up taking heavy casualties  from the Soviet units who were still left in the city as they covered the main forces retreat.

Ok I read a little burb of history on the battle...ya I know nothing of it.  So these guys supposedly took out a bunch of tanks with 2 45mm at gun and a bunch of at rifles?  Ok ya...they padded history more than likely.  But this was a lot of these guys 1st fight.  Also read that they pulled out of the town starting at 1700.  LOL I cam to that conclusion at 0100 in the morning.  So I guess they pulled out of town after fighting the vanguard of the Germans. Then next day counter attacked after linking up with the tanks?  Vary vague history.  But they MUST have been fighting light tanks in the recon by force.  Not pz3 and 4s?  No way with what they had could they fight off 12 pz3 or 4s? 

Of course it was a recon by force...so not likely the Germans where pressing the attack. 

I am thinking BTW of actually doing the alternate history HOLLYWOOD epic.....Solovoko REDUX  LOL.   ::)

OH BTW...DANE do you have a run down of what armor the Germans had here? 

NO.
I don't have actual numbers.All I know is about the time the Germans started to approach the Msha river 6. Panzer-Division had only a half dozen operational tanks, although it had received an additional six Panzer III flame throwing tanks. Some of the companies of its Panzergrenadier regiments were reduced to a strength of only ten
to fifteen men.Most of the tanks,trucks and armored vehicles were suffering from severe mechanical failure after campaigning for several months without breaks for periodic preventive maintenance and this was causing as many losses as were being suffered in combat.

I do not think any one knows.  They where there.  They fought..  Germans where stopped due to various reasons... the end.  LOL 

Nipe in the book I referenced earlier says the Germans captured the town at 1500 and the 1st Czech battalion left 300 dead out of an initial 900 in the battalion and left 30 guns behind,no mention about what type of guns-they could be ATGs and MGs for all I know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sokolovo   Bottom line...  I do not think either side knew wtf was going on.  Over extended tired Germans...1st combat Czechs.  Then the propaganda machine kicked in..  What is probably MOST telling is that locals of the town later named a few things and built a monument to the Czechs that fought.  So they DID or SOME of them fought HARD.  Hard enough to be remembered years later by the locals to build a monument.

I think both sides were locked in a very hectic life and death struggle that had been going on non stop for months and detailed descriptions of every single engagement or battle in the units war diaries were of secondary importance.

damnit I did not get anything done today... UGH only played this damned campaign.   :P

Well I got the most important units out of the town...  I have 3 zis3 still up.  Small miracle that one.  All low on ammo.  I think I inflicted enough death on the lead element of the Germans that I MIGHT have bought enough time.  Ding bat Ai controlled zis 3 battery -1 gun I thought was lost forever, was only routed as I fled that stupid battle after a few shots.  Was trying to save MY 45mm battery.  I lost 1 gun but got him out.  Well looks like that zis 3 ai battery got back to my lines.  Now actually being useful and defending a key point.  This is looking up now. 

I never let the AI control anything but the wiremen,but sometimes it takes over some of my units on its own orders.
I stopped using the advanced orders system because most of the time even if I have the command points they rarely listen to me and I end up spending all my command points reissuing the same orders.

If you are talking about the 6&11 Pz.D in march 43 around Kharkov I have almost all info. What are you interesting in?

What armor they had for this op.  Well what was in working order.  If I DO end up making some fake Hollywood based on a true story (laugh) version of this campaign.  I have not made a campaign in FOREVER.  All my modeling time is going else where right now, making a fun little campaign might be fun. 

I can't answer accurately right now. In 3 days I'll be able (Friday-Saturday). Are you interesting only in tanks or in apc also? What dates do you need exactly?

Well honestly will probably just dream something up.   :P  Although I am curious if any T26's where around ANY of the areas we have polygons for. 

 :-[ That was one of my favorite tanks in World of Tanks before they started introducing the French and British light tanks.I don't play WoT anymore but I had fun with that tank and the Pz 38t.

I suspect the t-26 wasn't a very common site by the Summer of 42 or later.I think by this time most had been destroyed or retired and replaced mainly by later model light tanks like the t-70 and t-60.

I was looking at Glantz June 28,1942 figures for strength returns for all the Russian brigs and bns and he shows some units still had a handful but he states that there was about 34 t-26s out of a total over 3,000 tanks in operation on the South and South Western fronts.

100% no. If we are talking about Kharkov feb-march 43 there were mostly T-34. Also T70, T60, KV-1, Valentain roughly equal and were a little bit of Matildas.

About 1-3% of all russian tanks can be T26 in Sinyavino operation and a lot of them may be in Khalkin-Gol.

How about feb/march 42?  I know 2/3 of the 10000 t26's got destroyed or abandoned in the Germans initial attack. Of course by 1941 was WAY past its prime.  Although WAS the tank to be in during the Spanish civil war. 

Ok solovoko has got to be the BIGGEST ball buster campaign I have ever played in GTOS or K43.  OMG.  where do all these tanks come from!.  I think I might get things under control and BAMM NO. I may get totally rolled off the damned polygon!

Well my tanks FINALLY arrived. But probably way to late to pull a win out.  I have preserved a huge chunk of my Czechs...but they are not exactly useful with skill levels set SO low.  down to 1 zis3 gun and 2 45mm with next to no ammo.  No more resupply. That's used up.  AHHHHHHHHHHHH :P

I have never had to flee the battle field SO many times.  I would have next to nothing left to fight with if I had not.  But playing with it set to unlimited battle size.... that MIGHT be what is doing this.  Like 2x the numbers of Germans getting into a fight they where not suppose too. 

 :D
Well commander comrade Flashburnski,
You can take your own life now,or wait for the NKVD to show up at your command post with your arrest papers.
Which shortly afterwards you will be driven to the woods on the North side of the river,stripped of your rank,shot in the back of the head and unceremoniously dumped in an unmarked hole in the ground.

Failure will not be tolerated!

Oh him....he was purged in 1937...   HAy its 1943!  they stopped a lot of that crap.  Hell I would have shot the commissar if he where to party man. 


Well I have killed 13 of their tanks... 4 halftracks ......some units are missing them for some weird reason.  Like all the recon troops no apcs...but they have fuel LOL.  181 german out of action.  I and the stupid Rambo Russian Ai commander have lost 10 mg and at guns and 325 soldiers.  Most of those are from the ai and his insane at gun assault.    POints are awful at turn 9 germans 716 and red 483   I should also say I have badly damaged a few of their tanks too. 

Think I am going to be crazy and take 2 of my tank platoons on a massive flank attack...  LOL  Why NOT!  Im screwed!


That was a funny round...  Ran right into 3 pz3 M flame tanks.  Watching one of them flame one of my tanks was a new one for me.

I can already imagine how this scene plays out.

3 men in NKVD uniforms drive up to your command post.
FB-"Am I to be arrested"
1st NKVD officer-"Nyet,You've been ordered to divisional HQ to answer some questions."
FB-"Thank God,I thought you were here to arrest me and have me shot".
2nd NKVD officer-"Oh don't be silly,this is 1943 We stopped a lot of that crap.Now please get in the car we are to escort you back to Div. HQ and have little time to waste".

Car drives North over 2 bridges and thru a dirty little village and turns left off of the main track onto a small wooded path just large enough for the car to pass thru.The driver stops the car gets out and says He has to take a piss.
1st NKVD officer-"Comrade commander Flashburnski you may want to get out here also and stretch your legs and use the latrine too,you have a long journey ahead of you"
You get out and notice a 3 foot hole in the ground.
FB-"Hay looks like someone has already been here and dug a convenient ready made latrine".
A single shot rings out,as you crumple to the forest floor the driver walks over checks for a pulse and fires again into your head,then kicks your lifeless body into the hole and covers it with leaves and pine broughs.
As the car drives off a hoot owl can be heard as the camera slowly pans away from scene and fades to black.
The End.

Is that before or after FB shoots the political commissar?  Vary strange that system. 

See that way there is a reason for a short drive.  Right? 


Well I think the German tanks are starting to run out of ammo shooting my guys..   :-\



Well the back of my mind is fleshing out MY version of this...  As stated before with...

Telephone troops... they will have to be Red Army I believe as I am not modding the game LOL.  However After brief research I noticed a small number of Red Army guys WHERE apart of this unit.  For all we know, and they probably where....radio and telephone operators.  Having a guy speaking Czech to Russians probably would not work...

All troops go under player command...  No ai controlled at guns on the flanks.  That one totally screwed me.  Still would have been bad, but NOT this bad. 

CZ troops are getting more experience to start.  set to 20 is awful.  I am thinking 40 with good moral and average leadership.  Germans I am thinking 50 - 60 to reflect that a lot of these guys had been fighting awhile, while not making them over the top.  With a bit of NOT rested. 

Follow same plan as the DLC overall but some different stuff.  Like no damned 3 platoons of medium tanks popping up turn 2. 

Keep in mind I can not EDIT the current campaign.  Little things yes but not BIG  stuff really.  So it will be a remake.  But going to throw a few toys that where highly unlikely this unit had.  Like a few heavy MG.  That I will stick under non historical. 

More engineers!  Well probably add into non historical again. 

Less fooking tanks.  Yes they CLAIMED they where getting hit with the entire front worth of tanks on them...  With 2 45mm at guns I do not think they would have done much  :D  The flame tanks ya.... they seem to have used something along those lines. 

To dream it up happens to be quicker than I thought. As I inderstand you need info about Sokolovo 8 march. List of 6'th PzD ready for action vehicles:
Pz2 - 8 (2 or 3 were C other F)
Pz3N - 2
Pz3 - 7 (1-3 could be J (lg) otherwise L)
Pz3FL - 6 or 7
Pz4G - 10
StugF8 - 9
Marder139 - 3
Marder138 - 2
Marder131 - 5
232 - 4
250 of all modifications - 28
251 of all modifications - 25

and 18 different ac&apc which are absent in the game.

So more less what it is now in DLC.  But this was for entire 6th?  Across there whole front and whatever they had as a reserve?  What missing vehicles...just curious?  sdfkz 222? 

That looks like the strength for entire 6th Pz. and seems inflated.From what I understand the 6th was operating in 2 battlegroups one was fighting in Taranovka while the other swung around the west side of Taranovka to attack Sokolovo.

The flame tanks were sent as reinforcements after they were down to 6 operational tanks.

The other type of APCs were probably FLAK wagons and flamethrower mounted APCs.

Yes, it's for entire division. That days it was fighting both for Taranovka and Sokolovo. It is very close each to other and different troops were few times a day switched to attack either Taranovka or Sokolovo. According to Russian sources 6'PzD tanks were everywhere.

List of missing vehicles with "einsatzbereit" number :
221 - 2
222 - 5
223 - 4
233 - 4
247 - 2
260 - 3
261 - 5
263 - 4
267 - 1
250/7 - 3

Four battle groups on 7-8 March.

1) Taranovka (attack from North):
PzRgt 11 + Flamm panzers
II/114 (apc)
apc platoons from PiBtl 57
2.&3. batterys II/76

2) Sokolovo:
I&II/4
K6 (recon btl.)
1 coy from PiBtl57
Marders + Stugs

3) Taranovka (south-west):
I/114
2.&3. batterys I/76
1 squad from PiBtl57
Marders + PAKs

4) Art Gruppe:
1. I/76
1. II/76
III/76

Separate actions:
1 coy, 1 squad, 1 apc platoon from PiBtl57

BTW I am STILL dinking around with this old DLC.  My attempts at cheating and getting into editor by extracting bits from unpacked campaign files.. Well SOME stuff worked fine...  Others NOT AT ALL LOL.  So will have to rebuild something close to DLC.  BUT less insane.  And yes something to make it German playable.  I am in no hurry Just like the other 3 GTOS projects I have been working on the past 2 months.  In my defense THIS time new DLC came out.  Still have not finished Red Army campaign on that guy. 

AND trying to figure out how to FINALLY get longstop and Tunisia a reality. 


LOL I did somehow get the dlc -text to load right.  UGH Ya maybe editing preexisting campaigns IS possible.  Takes some cut N past and knowledge of the basic mod tools.  JUST CFG to PD and PDtocfg.  AND NOTEPAD! 

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/606/l2vn.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/l2vn.jpg/)

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I still need to get text in there...  and finish adding in wire troops to Germans.  So far that is all I have done..   but at least with MY play threw of this camp set to unlimited battle radius was pretty much impossible to hold ANYTHING.  EI I was getting kicked off the map completely!  So need to come up with interesting compromise.... for RED ARMY and for Germans a campaign that would actually be NOT a cake walk. 


I think I will LIGHTLY stick to battle from history but hmmm get mildly creative.   ;D

dear gawd..... rewriting all this text.... UGH!  Got all the red army guys with correct TEXT now to deal with the Germans.   ;)

Work continues on this side project  ;).  Assuming t70's where somewhat close to this area I am considering going lite tanks more than medium t34.  The T34 will still be there of course!  but less.  Like I said....going for Hollywood based on a true story NOT exact.  but I do not want to stray TO far off.

Also after talking the other day about player requests from Andrey reworking the layout of this campaign.  I WAS somewhat sticking with the shipper DLC line.  Well pretty close anyways.  Throwing the 15 turns OUT the window.  From turn 1 will now start at the recon in force of the town.  I had set up a little recce thing but likely would not have worked out QUITE as I intended anyways.



Off note....when I compile the campaign it is NOT showing up in game like it USE TOO.  files are right and it makes the folder and the file is IT in but does not show in the games campaign menu....  :'( 

On final little details on fb_sokolovo.  ;D  Red Army 1st.  Then I make German version.  Hopefully this works out and is fun.  :-\  I will likely release a largely untested version in the next few days.  If anyone is brave....take it for a test spin.   :P

telephone troops are now in for both sides. 

Tweaked the force structure and flow of the campaign.

less tanks for Germans. 

Will require the sokolovo DLC to run of course. 

Sounds like fun. :D
I'm in.
Can you post a screen shot of the initial set up for the campaign.

Well 2 snags with this right now.  One the time of op is all messed up.  NO idea why.  I set 1300 in config and it says in the editor its 8:421 or something?  WTF is that? 
And the other is it is NOT remotely exporting right for testing in the game.  That one has me confused.

I must have done something VARY odd in basic ODS spread sheets or something....  As to why it not shows?  HMM something simple and silly FOR sure.

Flashburn will you do only english version, or some body helps to you do russian translation?

Was going to ask Krabb later for Russian version.  Or in THIS case can get extracted and slightly modified from DLC.   So yes.


But first need to figure out what BONE head thing I did to get campaign files to not show up in menu. 

With some Andrey help to see that I named a file wrong  :-X I HOPEFULLY will have test version of Red Army campaign tomorrow up.  Doing some last minute checking and testing.  Little polish for this one.  Like NO briefings and little stuff.

UGH needs more polish before I release test version.  HOPEFULLY NEXT weekend. Want to add in well thought out flag areas for tactical battles and not use so much of the random opens.  That and a few more tweaks to the unit structures.  AND MAYBE throw in a few vary simple scripts.  But not sure about that one.