Shine on tanks

[andrey12345]

Tankshine 

[Thomasew]

Hi Andrey,

If those pics you posted are supposed to convince me, .. you're wrong.

There's a distinct difference between shine and glare, .. and most of those pics you posted are exhibiting glare, .. not shine.

The top picture is the best example, .. as it's obvious the Tank is NOT shining, .. but reflecting glare from the Sun.

.. the ground is exhibiting the same 'glare' effect,

or, .. is the ground as shiny as the tank ..  

The Tanks in the new Steam version of SABOW, .. are exhibiting excessive bloom, .. and neither glare nor shine ..

.. if this Tank really WAS shiny, .. it would show all over the Tank, .. to some extent, .. and not just focused on the turret or the gun.

.. and it certainly wouldn't be glowing ..  






Irrespective, .. I think the last Steam version, .. had the glare/shine almost perfect. You had been tweaking it down over the previous couple of releases or so. The effect was more subtle, .. and far nicer.  

Now (with 2469) it's just nuts, .. and has gone completely the other way .. i.e. excessive.  

Unfortunately, .. I can't roll back the Steam version to the previous version.  

, .. but, fortunately, .. I still have the March 15a version from GG, .. and that is definitely nicer to look at, .. and play, .. than this new Steam version.  


Andrey, .. please take your sunglasses off, .. before tweaking the lighting and/or shiny bits etc. etc. ... Thank You ..  


.. my sunglasses are in the car, .. and I don't wanna have to go and get them, .. everytime I play Steel Armor.


Also, .. I'd much rather you leave the Lighting etc. alone, .. and perhaps focus on fixing the bugs.

Like this one below, .. which is what happens after you 'Continue game', .. from a 'Save and Exit'. The Tank becomes unplayable.





BTW, .. have you seen the interior of the Tanks, .. when you turn HDR off ?? ... It's so bright ..  

I suppose you're gonna tell me, .. that all Tanks crews wore sunglasses, .. so they wouldn't get blinded by the bright interiors.  





Cheers
Tom

[andrey12345]

If those pics you posted are supposed to convince me, .. you're wrong.

I cite these photos as what will be in the game.
And I'am right.

Yes at current version, bloom effect little bit bloomy  .
Yes, we have not yet had time to set up post-process shaders. No need to do from this tragedy, it will also be set up. Everything has its time.

BTW, .. have you seen the interior of the Tanks, .. when you turn HDR off ?? ... It's so bright ..  

While we set up and check only one branch with all effects on.
Then deal with simple shaders and various simplified modes. But I do not recommend HDR turned off in any case.

[andrey12345]

Irrespective, .. I think the last Steam version, .. had the glare/shine almost perfect.

Of course not, previous version have a worst shaders and bad effects at all.
I am surprised that such computer graphics experts have not noticed it. 

Unfortunately, .. I can't roll back the Steam version to the previous version.  
, .. but, fortunately, .. I still have the March 15a version from GG, .. and that is definitely nicer to look at, .. and play, .. than this new Steam version.  

Not so nicer

Andrey, .. please take your sunglasses off, .. before tweaking the lighting and/or shiny bits etc. etc. ... Thank You ..  

Also, .. I'd much rather you leave the Lighting etc. alone, .. and perhaps focus on fixing the bugs.

Lighting is major bug, we not leave it alone.

Like this one below, .. which is what happens after you 'Continue game', .. from a 'Save and Exit'. The Tank becomes unplayable.

Yes we work on it.

[johncage]

the shine in your comparison photos and the shine in game is different in size and intensity. i think if you lower intensity, it would be alright. also, notice the shine is diffused, rather than glowing. so you can still kind of see the color, roughness, and material underneath the shine. but in the game, the shine is just flat white.

also keep in mind, photos always represent overexposure from the sun. in reality, eye adjust. white will not be that much

edit: i'm glad this is ongoing effort. have you looked at some games do it? like here:

http://www.incgamers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/warthunder_groundforces_03.jpg

unrelated to shine, but also cool feature is reflected lighting using cubemap or other methods, may be gpu costly, but gpu is powerful in todays market

[Flashburn]

I don't think cube mapping is even worth the hassle.  Also since the way the map is broken up into chunks it adds in some mild issues. Since all cube map is doing is plopping on a reflection of what ever is going on with your back ground sky box.  Which is fine and all, if that is a static element in a map.  Something that both GTOS and SABOW do not have going on. 

The only 2 things i could see a cube map being handy for are a fake mirror effect and glass reflection.  but it would never represent what is actually going on around them. So its nice but meep. 

[andrey12345]

the shine in your comparison photos and the shine in game is different in size and intensity. i think if you lower intensity, it would be alright. also, notice the shine is diffused, rather than glowing. so you can still kind of see the color, roughness, and material underneath the shine. but in the game, the shine is just flat white.

No
Our shine the same as photo

also keep in mind, photos always represent overexposure from the sun.

Game too by the same reasons.

edit: i'm glad this is ongoing effort. have you looked at some games do it? like here:

Too much sharpness and unrealistic reflections. But texture maps is great.

unrelated to shine, but also cool feature is reflected lighting using cubemap

But unrealistic 

[Flashburn]

I am really curious what format for textures war thunder is using.  Is it getting one 2048 for hull and one for turret?  Cause I sure do not think that is one 2048.

[Flashburn]

Forgot something.  For a ww2 tank that would have rolled off a production line usually no longer than 1 year.  NO way it rusted that much with that much worn paint.  That takes time.  Not 3 months.  Pet peeve of mine with really beat up looking ww2 tanks in "ww2" games.


When you look at color ww2 pics (usually taken by US reporters), you see that the tanks apart from being dirty, look pretty new.  Even ones with battle damage.  No rust everywhere.  No 20 years of paint wearing off.  Well you get the idea.   

[johncage]

war thunder seems to have a plethora of effects. i don't think it's just the texture, which is excellent. i think they are using environmental reflected lighting. like when you're on grass, the hull that's in the shade, being metallic, will receive the green reflected light form the grass. that's really what i meant by cubemap. i think modern gpu have more efficient way to do this and don't even need cubemap.

and i agree with andrey, sun lighting and glare is excellent when you have your back to sun and it is shining directly on the tank. but when you turn the camera and face the sun, and the sun glares off the tank, that intense white light is too much. exposure needs to lower.

[andrey12345]

war thunder seems to have a plethora of effects. i don't think it's just the texture, which is excellent. i think they are using environmental reflected lighting.

Simple PBR ligting w/o miracles. At nNow used in all games probably more or less serious.

like when you're on grass, the hull that's in the shade, being metallic, will receive the green reflected light form the grass.

But its not right for tanks in real world (except wet conditions) and look like somthing strange.

that's really what i meant by cubemap. i think modern gpu have more efficient way to do this and don't even need cubemap.

Both methods used novadays in games equally bad, so it does not matter.

and i agree with andrey, sun lighting and glare is excellent when you have your back to sun and it is shining directly on the tank. but when you turn the camera and face the sun, and the sun glares off the tank, that intense white light is too much.

Where?

exposure needs to lower.

Turn on HDR in game settings

[johncage]

i will try hdr. i turn it off long time ago because it hurts the eyes. also, camera has to be perpendicular to sun ray. like directly at it, but not pointed at it. pointed at object under neath sun ray.

speaking of pbr, how easy or hard will be implement in graviteam engine

[andrey12345]

i will try hdr. i turn it off long time ago because it hurts the eyes.

Sun lights hurt eyes too.
But no way to do somthing like realistic day if you do not use bright lighting

speaking of pbr, how easy or hard will be implement in graviteam engine

It is there since 2010. Except for the parts that are costly for the production of assets. Instead, they are constant coefficients or autogenerated maps.

[johncage]

using hdr, i don't know if there's much different. the sun reflection be still as a bright.


i have looked at the bump texture, channel alpha is shininess. so solution is to make certain flat areas lighter and whiter. then, on metal edges, metal exposed from paint chipping, bolts, etc make them dark gray or black.

good trick is to add more stiraitons. i see now it is blurry and diffused. if you can add some sharp dark parts, sharp white parts, combine in efficient method, i feel war thunder look can be achieved. because that is how they do the specular map. contrast is higher.

thank you. i try now and post comparisons

edit: not going to bother posting comparisons. they look the same. i think glare might be hardcoded?

but i found out if you put more black on metal edge, it looks nice in the game. also, put more black marks on turret, and it looks properly shiny when sun hits right on. but sun at an angle=very bad glare.

could it be something else affecting the shine? like roughness map?

[andrey12345]

using hdr, i don't know if there's much different. the sun reflection be still as a bright.

Which game version do you use? Please write. Because it seems not clear that we are discussing at all.

Latest version with HDR on light reflection peak
http://i.imgur.com/WdnzUT6l.jpg
no flare no glare

i have looked at the bump texture, channel alpha is shininess. so solution is to make certain flat areas lighter and whiter. then, on metal edges, metal exposed from paint chipping, bolts, etc make them dark gray or black.

This requires modifying the textures of all non-automated manner. This of course no one will do.

[andrey12345]

could it be something else affecting the shine? like roughness map?

I already wrote, please wait version with a tuned post-process shaders. On steam it is now, on GG i think will be next week. Why need to tweak textures if illumination gives by post-process at 99%? What the sense?

[johncage]

i am using latest gamergate version. ok i wait for patching