Some questions I can't find answers to...

[33lima]

Any info welcome on the following questions, which are still puzzling me as I learn SABOW...

1. When you are playing as gunner, and you hear the tank commander give a fire order, when he says ''...right 4' what does that mean - four what, to the right? It's not degrees, it's certainly not mils, and I don't think it's a clock code either. It might be four marks in the situational awarness 'directions' HUD thing, but I'm not sure.

2. In the T-62 gunner station, there is a useful but unusual circular turrret position indicator, with outer and inner circles, to the gunners lower left front. What do these scales mean? The inner scale for example is graduated from 0 to 60, which from a mention in the manual of mils may be Soviet style mils which are said to be 6000 to a full circle not 6400. But it's strange that 0 (zero) is to the REAR of the tank and 30 directly ahead. Just curious.

3. I had a strange experience in Turn 4 of my Susangerd campaign playing T-62/Iraq. The briefing text box, top left of the first 'small map' screen, just said the (friendly, Iraqi) 6th Armored was coming up from south and east. There were no orders for me. I clicked some icons to get something started. Some battles flared up (little orange flame) on the bottom left of the map, but not where my units were (bottom right). This went on for a while.

Getting bored I clicked on one of the little flames on the left, for the Allied units, even though I could not 'play' these units. To my surprise I got the white ring around the flame I clicked on, but instead of putting me in charge, which SABOW obviously can't do, clicking to select this battle seemed to generate a result to the fighting, which was displayed in text.

Then a flame appeared in my corner of the map. But no orders for me, in the briefing panel. I waited. Still no orders for me. So I clicked on the flame beside my units. Maybe I was being attacked, and just had to deal with it. The briefing overlay in the unit deployment and orders seemed to confirm this - there was a big enemy arrow, pointed right at our positions. So I gave defensive, fire at will orders to each platoon and set them overlapping arcs of fire, to cover all likely enemy approaches. Then I switched to my tanks.

We were all in dug in, hull down positions. It was raining. I switched from tank to tank and scanned left to right, towards the enemy, swapping from gunsight to tank commander's sight. Rain coming down in sheets. Trees swaying in the wind. Like the bear who went over the mountain, that was all that I could see. I waited and I watched. Then, I watched and I waited. No enemies appeared. I was not going to abandon my positions to do a recce. I did not have any light units, to send on a recce for me. So I waited. And I waited.  Nothing happened. No movement, no shooting, no noise. Nothing. Except, we got wet.

What was that all about? Do you get turns like this in SABOW, when no orders come, and nothing happens?

[Flanker15]

The 4 right thing is just the 6000 mil circle, so four right is 400 to the right of front.   It's like a clock but instead of hours you have seconds left or right.
I haven't looked at the thing in the t62 cockpit but if there's 2 cirlces the other one is usually the direction the commander is pointing.
As for the defence mission, yeah they do that sometimes, they often show up to attack eventually but sometimes they go for all the other control points first or get immobilsed somewhere.  The low vis makes it harder still you can move right past each other.

[Tanker]

Example shows right 3.  See the icon of the tank in the center of the icon bar in the screen shot.  Simply move the turret left or right from zero (zero corresponds to 12 o'clock) in accordance with commander's directions.  I would have preferred the clock system myself but you soon get used to this one.

[33lima]

Thnaks guys! I ahd read in the manual that the Soviet annotation for mils was also different, 100 mils being written as 1-00 so I had wondered if the target indications were maybe in (hundreds of mils). So 'right 15' would be somewhere close to 3 o'clock in the clock code and so on, corresponding with the little blue tick on the 'directional' HUD header tape at the top of the screen and zero being the direct front of the tank, not the current line of sight/barrel direction.

Here's the T-62 'azimuth indicator'; one of the icons clicks you to a direct view of this device:



The more I get into this sim the more I'm amazed at the attention to detail that has been put into every aspect, from the functioning of the tanks, to the visual aids, to the wargame element. Despite the occasional uneventful turn, I have the impression SABOW's SP campaign system could be the best any tanksim has ever had, with the player's command being generated missions which flow directly from the tactical situation as the wider battle develops, with dynamic elements like damage, morale impacts, supply/repair issues and territorial gains and losses being carried forward from the previous mission.

[andrey12345]

1. When you are playing as gunner, and you hear the tank commander give a fire order, when he says ''...right 4' what does that mean - four what, to the right? It's not degrees, it's certainly not mils, and I don't think it's a clock code either. It might be four marks in the situational awarness 'directions' HUD thing, but I'm not sure.

Mils relative from tank hull direction. This measurement used for any directions.
Use direction indicator on top to check where is it. Gray bar with numbers is your field-of-view in mils. One tick on this bar is 1-00 mils. "... right 4" = from 3-00 to 5-00 (voiced only even numbers) right

2. In the T-62 gunner station, there is a useful but unusual circular turrret position indicator, with outer and inner circles, to the gunners lower left front. What do these scales mean? The inner scale for example is graduated from 0 to 60, which from a mention in the manual of mils may be Soviet style mils which are said to be 6000 to a full circle not 6400. But it's strange that 0 (zero) is to the REAR of the tank and 30 directly ahead. Just curious.

It is mils, but w/o division to left/right in form XX-YY
Huge arrow = turret direction relative to hull (hull always directed to 30 = forward), +-15 is left right (as in direction indicator on top), but for right you need to add 30. It is XX-...
Tthin arrow = the same but fraction part (It is ...-YY)

3. I had a strange experience in Turn 4 of my Susangerd campaign playing T-62/Iraq. The briefing text box, top left of the first 'small map' screen, just said the (friendly, Iraqi) 6th Armored was coming up from south and east. There were no orders for me. I clicked some icons to get something started. Some battles flared up (little orange flame) on the bottom left of the map, but not where my units were (bottom right). This went on for a while.

Getting bored I clicked on one of the little flames on the left, for the Allied units, even though I could not 'play' these units. To my surprise I got the white ring around the flame I clicked on, but instead of putting me in charge, which SABOW obviously can't do, clicking to select this battle seemed to generate a result to the fighting, which was displayed in text.

Tactical battle starts only if our units (green by default) in the battle range (marked by orange dots if you hover under the "battle flame"). In other cases battle will be automatically resolved.

[33lima]

Thanks Andrey!

The battle flame did appear near my unit, as seen below - we were there, bottom right corner of the map, although the tanks look to be an odd very pale light blue or white colour...



...and after giving orders from the Unit Orders map, when I clicked to start the tanksim, I was taken to our tanks...



...but the enemy never appeared, despite the battle flame and despite, in the Deployment and Orders maps, the 'briefing' overlay showing a big enemy arrow right into our sector.

It must must have been one of those quiet periods! Maybe the enemy decided it was too wet, or their Chieftains all got bogged down!

[Flanker15]

Units off the map in the checkered area can't participate.

Also you have different icon colors than me so I don't know which ones are yours.   Mine ade usually green for player tanks, red for player controlee units and yellow for allies.

The ai has a lot of trouble with the water on that map .  Last time i played it they lost 8 tanks in one match trying to drive over a broken bridge and 6 more driving over the ford up stream which made the battle a bit easier.

[33lima]

By the time I took that screenie, I had changed the settings to use NATO-style colours so I am blue (Iraqi) and enemy is red. I am certain the units bottom right, with the flame in the middle of it, are the playable T-62 platoons that I jumped to, and sat with, waiting. And all three platoons were right under the flame, right in the path of a red, enemy arrow and out of the grey shaded area. Maybe SABOW is simulating a false alarm, the 'int' boys don't always get it right 

Or perhaps all their tanks made a bad job of trying to cross those pesky irrigation channels. I don't know about the AI, but even for me, sometimes it works...



...and sometimes it doesn't...

[andrey12345]

Or perhaps all their tanks made a bad job of trying to cross those pesky irrigation channels. I don't know about the AI, but even for me, sometimes it works...

...and sometimes it doesn't...

Use map, fords marked on it, if you go anywhere eventually drown.

[33lima]

Yeah, I have learned that lesson, why get wet, when you can stay dry...mostly.

Now, I just need to remember to go to full elevation, coming out the other side...