Stupid allies!

[Flashburn]

Yesterday I decided to replay Hooper.  I picked the long Angola campaign to get my t55/btr60 on.     Up there in the North I since I know I am going to get hit with a BUNCH of stuff I set up a nice defense in depth on the OP map.  Just waiting to get hit by the Unita/South Africa guys.  When after 2 turns 1 stupid retarded bmp1 platoon decides to jump in front of my lines and attack that massed mess of opposing forces, taking into his insane retarded battle my front 3 squares of btr60 platoons (6 I think)........ All my anti tank stuff was with the rear ranks meaning they where SCREWED!  Fyi, set to unlimited battle size.

Man I HATE that about allies set to ai.     After insane crazy bmp platoon got hit with about 30 vehicles worth of death in massed formation, I decided to flee the battle field.  Loosing my front rank of armored motorized infantry (on the OP map) to being routed.  Had to bring up the little reserve I was holding to my main line of anti vehicle defense.  next turn I was of course attacked with all that stuff again.  Managed to hold my own and recap those lost squares.  Now most of those routed BTR60 platoons are back in action where they should be.  But UGH!  Even that dumb Cuban platoon of bmp1's...now 1 bmp1 and 1 partial squad of infantry is now back waiting to screw me over again.   

Man why must ai allies be so daft on the OP map!.  In tactical battles I find them no so bad.  Oh sure sometimes they do the WRONG thing, but they also do the right thing as well. 

[Flashburn]

Fun side note... 

Had a pesky .50cal mg open up on my light armor and dismounted infantry for a perfect bush whacking on my flank on 1 counter attack of mine.  Nothing like having a model you made screw up your day.  muhaha.     Bastard waited until a whole bunch of my guys where in the open and lit me up from an elevated flanking position. 

[Tanker]

Yesterday I decided to replay Hooper.  I picked the long Angola campaign to get my t55/btr60 on.     Up there in the North I since I know I am going to get hit with a BUNCH of stuff I set up a nice defense in depth on the OP map.  Just waiting to get hit by the Unita/South Africa guys.  When after 2 turns 1 stupid retarded bmp1 platoon decides to jump in front of my lines and attack that massed mess of opposing forces, taking into his insane retarded battle my front 3 squares of btr60 platoons (6 I think)........ All my anti tank stuff was with the rear ranks meaning they where SCREWED!  Fyi, set to unlimited battle size.

Man I HATE that about allies set to ai.     After insane crazy bmp platoon got hit with about 30 vehicles worth of death in massed formation, I decided to flee the battle field.  Loosing my front rank of armored motorized infantry (on the OP map) to being routed.  Had to bring up the little reserve I was holding to my main line of anti vehicle defense.  next turn I was of course attacked with all that stuff again.  Managed to hold my own and recap those lost squares.  Now most of those routed BTR60 platoons are back in action where they should be.  But UGH!  Even that dumb Cuban platoon of bmp1's...now 1 bmp1 and 1 partial squad of infantry is now back waiting to screw me over again.   

Man why must ai allies be so daft on the OP map!.  In tactical battles I find them no so bad.  Oh sure sometimes they do the WRONG thing, but they also do the right thing as well. 

There's that AI again

[wodin]

I always control allies.

[Flashburn]

Reasons like this is why i usually do as well.  They like to do crazy things. 

But I am trying to get away from that.  Let them do their thing.  Often in the actual tactical battle it works out.  But in the strategy phase....not so much for me.

But damn I love this game even when some stupid bmp platoon acts like a retarded mushroom.  

[Dane49]

I like to control the Allies also.

Generally when I play I take overall control of every unit but mostly give general orders to them except for a platoon or light company which is where I tend to spend most of my camera time.

[lavish]

I know your feelings... 

since I know I am going to get hit with a BUNCH of stuff I set up a nice defense in depth on the OP map....

Did you have recon data of those enemy units? If not, AI does not know who's there.

... stupid retarded bmp1 platoon decides to jump in front of my lines and attack that massed mess of opposing forces, taking into his insane retarded battle my front 3 squares of btr60 platoons (6 I think).

...and so AI decided to do some recon? AI is just trying to be active.

All my anti tank stuff was with the rear ranks meaning they where SCREWED!  Fyi, set to unlimited battle size.

Here lies the problem - i.e. discrete nature of operation. AI platoon doing recon can initiate combat and you may not have important weapon systems close enough. Always place those weapons systems near the front line, if they are really needed!
 

Fyi, set to unlimited battle size.

Setting battle size to moderate is the best option. This ensures that the defender generally gets less units than the attacker. So initiating recon battle or attacking is more favourable, because defender gets less units to counter attack for that selected battle.


But anyway, I do know what you mean and I do know what you're trying to explain. And I do know you knowing what you are doing.  It's especially stupid if AI uses motorized AT-platoon for recon, because it's the fastest unit.  AI has it's own logic, but for a reason.

I think interaction between AI and player should be developed more. Even in tactical battles the AI may sometimes fail, because there's no way to coordinate with allied AI commander.

[andrey12345]

But anyway, I do know what you mean and I do know what you're trying to explain. And I do know you knowing what you are doing.  It's especially stupid if AI uses motorized AT-platoon for recon, because it's the fastest unit.  AI has it's own logic, but for a reason.

Thanks! You are absolutely right caught the problem - the AI ​​is not able to read a player's mind  . This is certainly a big drawback, unfortunately there is ineradicable.

I think interaction between AI and player should be developed more. Even in tactical battles the AI may sometimes fail, because there's no way to coordinate with allied AI commander.

At the moment, the player can only be a passive participant and help AI. But I understand the majority of players want to be active. Yes of course, Interaction with allied AI requires additional tools.

[Flashburn]

I still think recon needs to be handled in a different way.  As to why the ai choose a bmp1 platoon instead of the recon platoon with brdm-2's is odd.  A scout unit is generally not going to plow head long into an enemy formation.  It will probe around the edges.  It does not care about taking land.  It does not really care about loosing land it just took.  That is not its job.   

Perhaps simply being able to select an tactical battle operation set IF you are doing the attacking with scout units.  Here is what I mean.

As it works now, a scout platoon ai or also human, will drag every unit around it into the fight.  When all you as the player or AI for that matter want to do is see what the enemy unit is composed of.  I suggest that if a scout unit starts the attack an option is given to select either a scout mission or as it stands now, a straight attack.  If its a scout mission FOR a scout unit, just THAT scout platoon is placed into the tactical battle.  And for the ai, more likely to flee the battle as soon as it spots forces equal to itself in combat power.  As opposed to now where they just keep going until they are nearly destroyed.   

[Shadrach]

I always control allies.

Absolutely the same here. Sometimes after a patch it forgets the "control allies" setting and I have to quit and make sure to set it. I don't really get why the default is to not control them.

Anyway, I wish the developers would have a look at how the AI in the Command Ops series works. Sure, graphically it's a lot simpler, but the AI underneath is one of the best I've ever seen in a game.

For instance, if you give a recon unit a 'Probe' order, it will have low agression, and break off contact once the enemy has been found. Possibly it will also try to find another route to the given objective, to bypass the enemy.

[Tanker]

I always control allies.

Absolutely the same here. Sometimes after a patch it forgets the "control allies" setting and I have to quit and make sure to set it. I don't really get why the default is to not control them.

Anyway, I wish the developers would have a look at how the AI in the Command Ops series works. Sure, graphically it's a lot simpler, but the AI underneath is one of the best I've ever seen in a game.

For instance, if you give a recon unit a 'Probe' order, it will have low agression, and break off contact once the enemy has been found. Possibly it will also try to find another route to the given objective, to bypass the enemy.

+1, I've brought that up before also.

[Flashburn]

Ah really.  I have said this as well.  As a former Scout type guy it drives me nuts that in GTOS they don't really scout, they attack.  IMO they should be probing and when contact is made....make a call of either braking contact or if small enough enemy destroying them.  2x so if other scouts.  The counter recon mission.  Most defiantly part of scouting.