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Author Topic: Kursk/Prokhorovka map (beta) for SF1942 with SPM 1.5 mod  (Read 27812 times)
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Rends
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« on: September 27, 2010, 02:20:49 PM »

Here is the beta version of my new map Prokhorovka.

NOTICE: don´t upload this map anywhere else. Final version will be out soon!

What you get:
Command either a T-34,KW-2,SU-122, Panzer IV, Panther or the Tiger on the biggest tank battle of WWII.
Original terrain based on google map heightmap

Get the beta here: http://www.filefront.com/17325876/Rends_prokho_beta.zip

or here:  http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KZE4BIZG

This map requires the new SPM 1.5 beta mod!
Make sure to read the readme about installing the map (it´s very easy)

Feel free to comment your Ideas suggestions ect...

Rends
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 03:01:03 PM by Rends » Logged

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tigershuffle
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 03:41:56 PM »

look forward to having a rove around the area

thanks for your work  Grin

still flicking through the book Operaton Citadel by Janusz Piekalkiewicz (picked up at charity shop for £1)


.......will get back to you by end of week (still spending too much time on World of Tanks and Warband) but should have time to fit a few goes on it
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tigershuffle
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 03:45:13 PM »

Hi, I followed the instructions..........honest  Embarrassed but it doesnt show up in my single missions.

I have Windows 7
I installed as usual.......dragging to my Mods folder and then activating with jgsme.

I then navigated as per instructions "Open the camp_list.ENGCFG with notepad. You find the file under

c:/program files/Lighthouse Interactive/Steel Fury - Kharkov 1942/data/k42/loc_rus/levels/LEVELS/camp/

2. Now add following single line right under the last camp entry :


   camp\prokho_camp.engcfg, prokho,       txt_cm_camp_Prokho,        true, img_single;"

I did notice that the first part in bold was the only one in the txt file that didnt say "main camp"
this is part of the notepad.
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, teach,          txt_cm_camp_teach,    false, img_t34;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, single,          txt_cm_camp_single,   false,

img_single;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_1,               txt_cm_camp_rkka_1, true, img_t34;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_2,               txt_cm_camp_rkka_2, true, img_mk2;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_yug_t34-85,      txt_cm_camp_rkka_yug_t34-85, true,

img_teach;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_4,               txt_cm_camp_rkka_4, true, img_user9;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_3,               txt_cm_camp_rkka_3, true, img_user2;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_t60,       txt_cm_camp_rkka_t60, true, ,;
        camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_5,               txt_cm_camp_rkka_5, true, ,;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_6,               txt_cm_camp_rkka_6, true, ,;
        camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_7,               txt_cm_camp_rkka_7, true, ,;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, rkka_trophy,       txt_cm_camp_rkka_trophy, false, ,;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, werm_1,               txt_cm_camp_werm_1, true, img_pz4;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, werm_2,               txt_cm_camp_werm_2, true, img_user10;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, werm_3,               txt_cm_camp_werm_3, true, img_user1;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, werm_new,           txt_cm_camp_werm_new, true, ,;
   camp\main_camp.engcfg, werm_stug,      txt_cm_camp_werm_stug, true, ,;
   camp\prokho_camp.engcfg, prokho,       txt_cm_camp_Prokho,        true,

img_single;

cheers
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Rends
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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2010, 07:56:25 PM »

Hi, I followed the instructions..........honest  Embarrassed but it doesnt show up in my single missions.
...
Everything looks correct so far i can see it.

But

don´t search in single missions.

Have a look at the campaign list (the on in the middle of the screen)

There you should find an entry called Prokhorovka beta.


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tigershuffle
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2010, 02:38:08 PM »

still no joy.......sorry I cant find it

tried removin and adding again with jgsme

will try again when i have the time
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frinik
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 05:18:28 AM »


The same thing happened to me.While I was able to install your Prokhorovska mod without problems in q gqme install in a pqrtition I created and it appaers both in the in the JSGME and game menu just above the user made mission line, despite all my efforts I am unable to make it appear in my game installtion on the C drive.I have it enabled in my JSGME, I have the required line in the camp list and I hav the folder in my mods gfolder it does not appear in  the game menu.I hqve tried installing and re-installing everything still no go.Both puzzling and frustrating! My suspicion is that it has to do with Vista administrator rights in the C drive.On the other hand it works withotu problems in my F partition.

Tigershuffle if you hqve you beta 1.5 in the C drive try installing the game in a different drive and installing Rends mod.Hoepfully it will work?

BTW Rends I chnaged the SU122 for SU 85.The 122 is simply too ill suited to fight heqvy German tanks.The first Soviet mission plqys better with that substitution.I also changed a few T34/76 1941 model for the 1943 model to balance the mission a bit more.I also replaced your Kv2s by KV1s in the 3rd Soviet mission as I think the Kv2 is totally unsuited to fight tanks.

Cheers
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Rends
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 09:12:32 AM »


...BTW Rends I chnaged the SU122 for SU 85.The 122 is simply too ill suited to fight heqvy German tanks.The first Soviet mission plqys better with that substitution.I also changed a few T34/76 1941 model for the 1943 model to balance the mission a bit more.I also replaced your Kv2s by KV1s in the 3rd Soviet mission as I think the Kv2 is totally unsuited to fight tanks.

Cheers
Ok, but keep in mind that the SU-85 and the T34 43version wasn´t in service summer 43.
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frinik
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 07:56:36 AM »

Actually Rends I wouldn't be so sure ; the T34 version 1943 entered production in late September 1942 so they may been present in Zitadelle while the first Su85 were delivered in August 1943 thus missing the action by just 3 weeks. But as you said there were no Elefants nor Panthers at Prokhoronska so I took a little bit of liberty as well . Grin Plus I wonder if there were still KV2s in service that late and in Kursk? Huh?

Cheers
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Rends
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 10:24:55 AM »

Guess we talk about different versions.
I thought you were talking about the T-34/85 but i think now that you are talking about the 43 version with only small changes to the earlier ones (different turret)..
BTW i already split the Prokhorovka mission into 2 different ones. A day mission where the germans attack and an evening mission with a russian counterattack. The Ferdinands/Elefants and Panthers will be still in at first mission but will be replaced by StugsIII at the russian counterattack. This should reflect the technical problems the germans had with the early introduction of these tanks.
I might also replace the KW-2 with the KW1. When i placed the KW2 on the map I thought the KW2 would be somewhat stronger than they did on the map.
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sargexmy
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2010, 09:42:01 PM »

How come when I enter the mission it is completely dark (night time) and my sky is very messed up -> the whole sky is like a zoomed in version of the ground with very low resolution textures. it just is very weird.

I installed the SPM 1.5 per instructions and your mod per instructions.

Thanks
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peashooter1
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2010, 02:17:21 AM »

Refer to this thread at SimHq
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3106940/1.html (read the whole thread but I think your solution is more on page 2 and 3)
Cheers
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 02:19:47 AM by peashooter1 » Logged
frinik
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2010, 10:13:11 AM »

Good idea Rends, the KV 1 while being undergunned compared to the Panther, Elefant and the Tiger is definitely better than the KV2's with only 28 rounds and a reload time to make you cry.It has more shells and even with its HE it can inflict serious damage to any tank plus it has fairly robust armour.

Your night missions sound very interewsting can we get them on your website?

Cheers
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nodlew
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 01:48:53 PM »

Hey folks. I've just discovered Steel Fury and am really loving the game. It's far superior to T-34 vs. Tiger in just about every way. I even think I like the graphics better and it Runs!! I've just made my first test mission in the editor and I had like 40 Russian tanks with hundreds of infantry assaulting a German fortified position with Tigers, infantry, AT Guns. I even had a preparatory bombardment. It started to slow down just a little the last time I added another fifty or so infantry and 10 tanks, but the mission is still playable. Incredible. And my system is pretty old--Core2 Duo, NVidea 9800 GT. The editor is the easiest to use I've ever seen for a detailed WWII simulation.

So I've been looking for whatever Mods, infor, forums, etc. I can find for this game and I've been very surprised to find--given the quality of the game and the relative non-existence of tank simulations--that there is very little to be found, and what there is is hard to track down. All signs of a game that is losing its player-base. I'm amazed.

Anyway, I was very glad to find this forum which involves my new favorite game and seems to still have active members and active modders. I've downloaded your map, Frink, but I need to download the SPM 1.5 beta to play it. I had SPM 1.4 with a 1.5 patch, but I get a "core initialization" error when I try to run any of your campaigns. I'll have to wait till after 2:00am to download the 1.5 beta, due to it's size. My downloads during normal hours are restricted, but I have a 2-7 free period for large files.

Good to see others working on and playing this fantastic game. Now, when is someone going to do a comprehensive Western Front Mod? Battle of the Bulge?
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nodlew
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2010, 03:43:55 AM »

Just want to say that I'm playing the Campaign and loving it. If you're going to fight in a Tank on the Eastern Front, then the Battle of Kursk is the place to be (or perhaps not to be if you want to survive the war). I remember thinking to myself when first playing the game...Kharkov? What the hell is a Kharkov? Which way is Kursk? So far, I've played as the Germans and the Russians, maybe five battles in all and I've yet to survive the first mission. I love a challenge. I do wish I could play in a T-34/85. The T-34 is a poor match for Panthers and Tigers, and the IS 122 has so little AP ammo. Maybe I can edit the campaign with the editor and add a T-34/85 version. ?

Great work!
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Rends
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2010, 10:36:38 AM »

... Maybe I can edit the campaign with the editor and add a T-34/85 version. ?

Great work!
Thx, sue you can edit the mission but keep in mind that the T-34/85 wasn´t in service summer 43. First units of the 85 arrived autum/winter 43.
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nodlew
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2010, 01:35:22 PM »

Quote
...but keep in mind that the T-34/85 wasn´t in service summer 43

Oh. I was afraid that was the case. Then I'll have to stick with the T-34. What's the point in playing a simulation if you aren't going to simulate? I'm still on the first mission in the T-34. I've been killed about a dozen times now, but my tactics have improved to the point that I live long enough to take out two or three tanks before I bite it. I'm trying to disable the Tigers, and Ferdinands, then just leave 'em for later, but my shells don't seem to be doing much. Even an AP round to the engine at point blank range doesn't do the trick. I can take out the PzIV's and even got a couple Panthers from the side once. That's been my high-water mark so far.

This game has no mines, does it?

By the way, mistake earlier--Su 122, not IS 122. Wish it was an IS 122.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 01:37:24 PM by nodlew » Logged
Rends
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 07:13:04 PM »

Quote
...

This game has no mines, does it?

...
yes it has mines. I´m not sure if any of the stock missions has them in but at least i placed them in my first mission i released weeks ago.
http://rends.gametoast.com/RENDS_Website/Steel_Fury.html

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nodlew
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2010, 08:45:17 PM »

Well, that's very good that they are there. I just assumed there were none because of all the missions I've played I have yet to encounter a minefield--not even in your Kursk missions, though I haven't made it past the first mission yet.

Speaking of which, I'm really getting my ass kicked as the Soviets and I'm beginning to think stopping the Panthers, Tigers, and Ferdinands backed up by all of those PzIV's is just not possible given the forces on the Soviet side. The SU 122s are pretty useless. I've yet to see them defeat a single enemy vehicle. Usually they are destroyed before they fire a shot. The KVs last under (well under) a minute, taking fire from a couple of platoons of PzIVs, plus anything else which can see them, which includes Panthers, Ferdinands, and Tigers. The T-34s actually do the best (there's a lot of them), but they get mowed down pretty handily. In the end, although I can survive for a long time by hiding in gullies and ravines and sniping targets of opportunity, the battle is not even close. What's the point of falling back to the final line of defense? By that time, there is nothing left to oppose the Germans, except perhaps me, and my T-34 has by that time run out of AP ammo and can do exactly nothing.

I'll keep trying, but it's discouraging at this point.

Downloaded the mission with the mines. Looking forward to trying that out.
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frinik
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2010, 11:17:41 AM »

Well Nowdlev welcome to the Soviet quandary in early to mid 1943 Until they were able to field tanks and SPGs with better firepower  like the SU85 starting in August 1943, the KV85,the  JS1 and JS2 and the T34/85 in late 1943 early 1944  they had to face superior German firepower; Tigers, Panthers, upgunned Panzer IVs, Stugs late III series and StugIVs with obsolete T34/76 and KV1s and inadequate Su122 and 152 which were not conceived as Panzerjeager in the first place! but to take on bunkers and fortified positions.I played Rends beta 1 on the T34 and I managed not only to survive it but actually win destroying 7 German tanks including 2 Panthers, 1 Elefant, 2 Panzer IVF2 and 2 Panzer IVf1. The trick is to stay behind the leading attack pack and take a concealed position.Wait for the German tanks to counterattack and don't shoot until they're less than 700 metres otherwise the 76 mm of the T34 is not effective.Aim for the engine if you can otherwise go for the commander or gunner slit near the mantlet or the driver's position.

Soviet tanks in general carried limited ammo compared to German tanks, the T34/76 and early models had awful optics and poor ergonomics as well. Now you can understand why the Soviets lost 110 000 tanks/SPGs and APCs just on the East front.As Rends said the T34/85 was only introduced much later(December 1943).

One alternative is to go into the Game mission editor and change the SU122 for the KV1 which is what I did.The KV carries 21 AP and 56 HE rounds, it's 76 mm gun has more punch that the T34's, it's got strong armour, and much faster reload times than the Su122.With it your chance of survival and success should increase.

BTW, I read your post about the lack of gun to  hull command option in the game. You said that you had that option in all the other sims that you played.Can you tell us what sims you were referring to?Even if it exists in other tank sims I am not sure that that option is actually an accurate reflection of actual battlefield conditions. All acounts of battle I have read indicate that only in the case of a distant enemy threat would a tank commanderask his driver to shift the tank facing forward to reduce the vulnerability.Otherwise in case of a close proximity threat ( less than 800 metres) the delay in moving your tank prevents you from shooting and gives the enemy precious time to aim and pump a shell into your tank  which might disable it or your crew. In general the response would be to fire rapidly at the enemy target staying in the position you are in even if your flank is exposed and then shifting your tank around while you are reloading.Only if the target is beyond 1000 metres would a commander order the driver to face the enemy.Anyway below 700 metres even the Tiger I, II and Panther front armours were not invulnerable particularly from the 85, 122  or 152 mm guns and at certain angles from the 57 or 76 mm guns used by the Soviets.This of course, is assuming that the enemy has spotted you.If the enemy hasn't spotted you then a commander might want to make his tank face forward before firing at the target.


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nodlew
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2010, 11:23:20 PM »

Quote
Can you tell us what sims you were referring to?

Gonna put me on the spot, huh? Ok, it all started with M1 Tank Platoon2. Then there was Iron Fist2, then Steel Beasts, various WWII sims--mostly demos, none of which I liked as the graphics were terrible, T-72 Balkans on Fire (demo), T-34 vs. Tiger--just about every tank sim ever made except Iron Fist 3 (hated Iron Fist 2, terrible graphics, arcade-style play) and Steel Beasts Pro, which is very expensive. Can't swear to it, but I'm pretty sure they all had "Hull to Gun" or something equivalent.

Quote
In general the response would be to fire rapidly at the enemy target staying in the position you are in even if your flank is exposed and then shifting your tank around while you are reloading.

Well, at least in the case of Mikey Wittman, I think you are wrong. Reading I've done about him indicates that one of his secrets of success in the Tiger was to take a lesson from his days in a Stug, and turn the whole Tiger to the target like one would an assault gun--gets the frontal armor pointed at the target, plus turning the tank is faster than rotating the slow-ass turret. The Tiger turrets in game rotate too fast--it should take around 60 secs to fully rotate a Tiger I's turret (don't know about the KTiger, might actually have been better, despite the massive turret), but even with arcadey turrets, it's still faster to turn the tank, then make fine corrections with turret rotation. In fact, in game, it's faster to turn all of the tanks. They all spin in place like amusement park bumper cars. Not realistic, but whatcha gonna do? Have you seen the Elefants turning in place? They act like they have no mass at all, they spin instantly into position, making them, in essence, Super Tanks. I reality, they should be painfully slow to maneuver and hence extremely vulnerable to flank attacks. In the case of the T-34, it shouldn't be able to turn in place at all. The T-34 could not turn unless it was rolling, unlike the Tiger and other German tanks. There was a danger in turning tanks while sitting in place--if done wrong you could throw a track, but that's a detail we're never likely to see in game along with millions of other details.

But be all of that as it may, assuming you are right, which is a pretty sound assumption, Ok, I take my first shot with my tank askew to the target, and turn my hull as I reload. I still would like to have a Hull to Gun command so I can turn my tank as I reload--or maybe, which would be better, a command to Turn Right/Left where the driver turns the tank continuously until I give the order to Halt.

If you want to talk realism, the driver in the real world necessarily makes all kinds of decisions on his (her? maybe in Israel) own, like the decision to bear slightly left to miss the tree rather than running over it. The Hull to Gun command is one way to make command of your simulated tank more seamless despite the limitations of AI.
Essentially we have robot crew members-and these are not very smart robots as robots go.

Anyway, I doubt it's possible to mod new crew commands anyway, and even if it is, if I am the only one complaining about no Hull to Gun command, it will never be done. I can mod some things, but I cannot rewrite computer code.

Quote
I managed not only to survive it but actually win destroying 7 German tanks including 2 Panthers, 1 Elefant, 2 Panzer IVF2 and 2 Panzer IVf1.

Now was that in a T-34 or a KV1? 'Cause in a T-34 AP ammo is so paltry, that would be quite a feat. Will a T-34's gun with HE ammo disable a Tiger's engine from the rear at close range? If so, then I'm in business.

I have tried the mission in as commander of one of the KV1's off to the left of the 1st defense line. I live longer, and pile up Pz iv kills, but those damn Super-Dune-Buggy Ferdinands are making me a target of particular interest. Does the AI prioritize targets that well? I hope so.

Don't get me wrong, it's a beautifully made mission. But the Russians got shafted in the first mission, I think. This is Kursk. Those enemy tanks should have to navigate mine-fields, and the Russians should have an AT gun behind every tree. There should be more infantry, more trenches, more tank traps, maybe more Russian artillery. I mean, I don't want it to be easy. Of course not. But if you just let the game run and watch what happens the German force wipes the Russians completely out and takes very few casualties.

I should say, I am playing the final version of the Map, not the Beta. I started this commentary in the wrong place--sorry. Administrators feel free to move my comments to the other thread.

So, trying to win the mission, I've made small changes--controlling different vehicles. I haven't added anything to the Russian side yet, I want to try to beat the Krauts with what Rend gave me, even though I think he was a bit stingy. I've taken to naming my vehicle Red Hope, because as it stands, I am the only hope of the Russian Army as deployed. The other units are cannon fodder soaking up shells while and bursting into flame while I try to whittle down the German threat.

Although, to be fair, the very last mission I played my forces did rather well. I might even have won, had I not been killed toward the end of the battle. Both Tigers had been knocked-out by AI T-34s, and the Germans were pretty much down to one Ferdinand and some disabled Pzivs. So luck plays a role as well.

Keep in mind that any opinions I ever express about anything are to be considered place-markers until I happen to acquire better opinions.

Taking a closer look I find that there is NO Russian infantry. The trenches are empty. What happened to to them? Abducted by aliens? Defected? Hauled off by the Secret Police and pressed into Penal Units? I mean, C'mon. And what's up with the final defense line? There is no DEFENSE at the final defense line. No AT guns, no machine guns, no infantry, no mortars, no tanks that wait behind cover in reserve to act as a final...well....DEFENSE I repeat, C'mon!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 11:41:23 PM by nodlew » Logged
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