We are modding in a very small niche

[Rends]

Just checked my Sf42 mod download numbers



and compared it with my StarWars Battlefront mod numbers.

I have more than 320.000 Battlefront mod downloads ( since 2006) and only 2000 for my SF42 mods (since 2010).

I knew Tank Sim is a niche but havn´t thought it was that small.

[lockie]

Well, as my point it's OK. SF was organized to the small community. And it does. The question is - why still up to now we've d/l missions? May be this game still has an attraction?

[Panzerfaust]

Don't get discouraged Rends. Almost once a week I have someone new asking me somthing about SFK42 (how to install mods, JSGME set up etc) over at SimHq Graviteam forums. But like you said armor sims are a niche within a niche. If SFK42 was an FPS like ARMA yes the numbers of D/L's for mods would be over the top. But also if you look at SimHq's count of who's viewing what forums, Graviteams forum is really a hot bed right now as far as armor sims go.

I think part of the problems is the number of SFK42 mods that can be activated in JSGME, honestly my JSGME has over 15 mods/missions activated in it right now and at least 3 seasonal mods in the unactivated section   I really hope that if SPM 1.5 Beta moves to a finalized version a lot of these mods and missions can be condensed and incorporated in the finalized SPM. For us hardcore guys it's not a big deal adding mods, changing this mod out for another and then switching back later if not on an almost daily basis, but for someone new to SFK42 it might really seem intimidating and maybe overwelming at first. I have made this argument before (unified mission install) and some welcomed it and some were not to keen on it and thats okay as I'm not trying to change anyones prefered method. If a prospective player who is new to SFK42 but has an interest in WW2 armor sims and is provided a good base to get started from, more then likely they will be willing to delve more into it, but someone who at first has just a passing interest will probably get turned off very quickly if it seems too complicated, now once they are hooked it's a different story  .

What I would love to see in the finalized SPM 1.5 is every mod and mission that was made by the RU and Western communities incorporated so that someone new to SFK42 would only need the latest SPM in the JSGME activated section and in the JSGME unactivated section would have the seasonal mods that can be activated by the player, probably sound mods here too since it seems players do prefer one sound mod over another.
Cheers

[frinik]

Rends the reasons you see few downloads is also partly due to the fact that 

1) Steel Fury  is hardly available( try to find a copy of it).It's Western distributor went belly up 2 years ago and the they had a dispute with the Eastern one(Discus)

2) It's by and far virtually non pirated.( probably because it's SP thus not terribly interetsing for most pirates)

3) It's only SP thus does not attract a large base of fans.

I read 3 days ago in Tom Hardware about the 3 most pirated games of 2011:
The stats are from Torrent.

For the pc alone:

Crysis 2 = 4000 000

Modern Warfare 3 = 3 650 000

Battlefiled 3 = 3510 000

That's for 2011 alone and all are shooters and Multi player.

[Kyth]

It's a small niche, but a dedicated one (I think) 

[tonyuk]

I also play a lot on Red Orchestra Ostfront and Darkest Hour which has a great tank element and MP, which I think is the reason for the lack of numbers. SFK42 tank modelling is much better, great graphics too. In RO the tanks get killed a lot quicker. Stick to the WW2 era but get MP going and it will rock more. Same for IL2 1946 a well established WW2 air sim has been going for years and still strong, it has MP too but I always play SP for this one as I am a bit of a fossil!!

[starnon5]

It's also to do with exposure. SF didn't get anywhere near the same kind of press and publicity that 99% of games get. There's probably a big community that would love this game but don't even know about it. I didn't know about the game until I found it by accident, and it's not that I'm outside of the simulator-club as by that time I had FS2004/IL2/SH4 all modded-up to the eyeballs.

[hemisent]

It's also to do with exposure. SF didn't get anywhere near the same kind of press and publicity that 99% of games get. There's probably a big community that would love this game but don't even know about it. I didn't know about the game until I found it by accident, and it's not that I'm outside of the simulator-club as by that time I had FS2004/IL2/SH4 all modded-up to the eyeballs.

There's virtually no exposure for this game. I found out about it 18 mos ago by chance from someone commenting on the Silent Hunter/Subsim forums. Took me 6 months to actually acquire it.

[Panzerfaust]

I cannot say exposure was a problem as I remeber trying the demo out long before the game was released in the west. Finding a hard copy was a problem, but the DD has been available almost from the word go. But definately a big type of exposure problem was SFK42 being associated with Lighthouse. Many people thought both SFK42 and T-34 vs Tiger were both developed by Lighthouse  And when Lighthouse went belly up it really got bad trying to promote a simulator that everyone thought the developer had gone OOB. Even after the several Graviteam interviews at one of the bigger simulation sites out there that showed  1). Graviteam was the developer of SFK42 and  2). They were very much still in the sim making business. You can still ocassionaly find a post from someone advising people not to buy SFK42 because the developer LIGHTHOUSE was OOB 

Now as far as MP vs SP goes I have seen all kinds of numbers bantered around from various sources that support either argument of what more people play, MP or SP. So it's really hard I think to say for sure that MP would definately bring a huge flood of new players to SFK42, some definately, but how many really depends on which side you believe. As for myself I have yet to see a company deliever a simulator that is outstanding in both MP and SP. Even Il-2 which really shines in MP and has been the gold standard for years in MP combat flight simulators is rather lackluster in stock SP without being heavily modded, and even with all those great SP mods it pales in comparision to a SP dedicated simulation like BoB 2 WoV (to avoid any misconceptions were stictly talking game play SP experiance not FM/DM or GFX). But that being said I still would love to see some kind of MP in Graviteam simulations, even if it was just a 4 vs 4 indivdual tank on tank or 4 vs 4 multicrewed tank on tank, Even something limited would be better then nothing, but I'm a little leary of the 4vs4 multicrewed MP. the majority of players would want to be the TC or gunner, a few might want to be the driver, but who the heck would want to be the drivers assistant/radio man 

[Kyth]

Attention has also been split lately, with 2 related games, APOS and SA:BOW.

[frinik]

Yes I am fraid Graviteam's successful RTS, Kharkov Front Roads ,Achtung Panzer and now the hybrid ,SABoW , have stolen the show from SF.Still, SF is the only viable WWIII tank sim left.PE is too old and while still interesting it cannot match SF for graphics, gameplay and modelling.TvsT is just a MMP and SP is limited to Zeewolf's expensive and well made mod but being produced at a very small pace.

But SF has become and thanks to the modders, map makers, mission makers  it's very much alive!Not to forget Graviteam's and the game developer's support as well! I hope one day Graviteam will do a similar sim with bigger maps, better AI, better graphics SP and may be MP adn then release it!

[Estnische]

Rends - as a noob, perhaps I can shed some light? I've just obtained SFK42 after a long search for a tanker version of the successful IL2 sim. It's not immediately obvious on a whole range of levels:

1. Where to get it - IL2 in various versions has been around on the gamer shop shelves consistenly for years. My understanding is SFK42 was on those shelves relatively briefly and competed with quite a few other tank sims, and there was no way of telling which sim meet my needs.

2. Appeal to UK and US markets - IL2 quickly moved to a version with Western Allied forces, SFK42 still doesn't have that as far as I have seen. Make a Battle of the Bulge or Normandy mod and they shall come.

3. Availability of missions - after flying IL2 for a while, and seeing the prolific amount of campaigns and missions, I even had a go at making my own. Do a Google search and you will find plenty of tutorials on mission and campaign making, all clearly spelt out. Try doing that for SFK42 and I can't find much. I owe you great thanks for your missions. They have made SFK42 very worthwhile!  

4. Installing mods/missions - the architecture of SFK42 seems less obvious than IL2. It took me some time to work out how to install new material, and how to tell if I was successful. SFK42 could also benefit from having a career menu similar to IL2 where you can choose which country you are fighting with before selecting the vehicle.

5. Structure of advice - IL2 has been around so long now and so widely used that the advice has been stored in a structured way with lots of screenshots to show noobs how things should look. I'm having to trawl through lots of SFK42 threads to find gems of advice, especially about files and how they affect gameplay. e.g. the Attention Frinik thread gives no hints as to its contents, but runs for 23 pages, so I suspected there was something valuable there. Perhaps its time there were more sticky FAQs? (in my noobie opinion...)

[starnon5]

I think that sums it up nicely.

With regards to the community, the main issue seems to be the Russin/English language clash as most of the development is happening on the russian forums (although by no means all, as many great mods have been done by people on here).

There is a main downloads website, but it looks dated and not well advertised, so many people, like myself, had to trawl through forum threads to find things.

We should have a screenshot thread too as it's always useful for newbies who want to see how certain tanks and missions look, as well as being fun for all other players.

Missions: There has been some great missions posted on this forum, but overall, there are more drivable tanks than missions. I wouldn't even mind a copy of the main single player campaign but with each other drivable vehicle in place of the original.

[Kyth]

I'm having to trawl through lots of SFK42 threads to find gems of advice, especially about files and how they affect gameplay. e.g. the Attention Frinik thread gives no hints as to its contents, but runs for 23 pages, so I suspected there was something valuable there.

It's more of a stream-of-consciousness ramble... there are things of value in there, somewhere, probably 

[Estnische]

 

I'm finding more everyday! And I've worked out a few things, like how to save .engcfg files, when Win7 won't let you...

I can see now that the FAQs are about creating missions and campaigns, I just didn't know the missing bits about how the AI moves and so on.

How much historical info is required to make a good mission or campaign?

For instance, would the info and map on wikipedia be sufficient to make a three mission campaign on the Battle of Tannenberg Line? As the German forces had few tanks, is some flexibility required to even up the armoured numbers? What about the map? Am I correct that Rends made the Seelow map?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tannenberg_Line

[Kyth]

How much historical info is required to make a good mission or campaign?

Enough basic historical information to assign the appropriate vehicles, force balance, landscape and weather.
Other than that, just use your imagination and follow the principles of good mission-making. Don't get too hung up with the nuts and bolts of it 

Regardless of the forces available, it's possible to craft a balanced mission with imaginative victory conditions, i.e. objectives to be completed within a time-frame, delay / reduce enemy forces, escape to fight again, etc. etc.

An enjoyable mission or campaign has a narrative flow, so it's good to 'story-board' it beforehand. Go over the 3D ground and check out the possibilities.

Good luck!