Don't understand why

[benpark]

I actually like the GamersGate solution.  Graviteam seem to have freedom to release games when ready, and hopefully they are keeping more of the money themselves, rather than a publisher.  If they keep up the pace of quality releases, people will take notice.  It won't hurt if some of us that like the games let people know either.

I agree that the operations editor needs to simplified.  That seems like the least painful change Graviteam could accomplish to attract people on the fence about it.  The quick battle editor is extremely easy to use, so something along those lines would suffice and do nicely.

[randall.flagg]

It won't hurt if some of us that like the games let people know either.

Those screen shots over on the Simhq forum are gorgeous. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3476548/Achtung_panzer_Operation_star_.html#Post3476548

Im disappointed there isnt any discussion over at wargamer.com.

[Capt Sam]

As it happens, they already had a game by the name of 'Panzer Command Kharkov'.
Maybe they figured they couldn't have 2 different games, dealing with the same theatre, at the same time?

True, but APOS blows that old thing out of the water.

I own copies of all the Panzer Command games, and the APK and APOS games.  All of them are first-rate quality games.

[Dane49]

Matrix has a forum for this game with a few active players who visit it,but Matrix doesn't seem to care much about or actively support the game.

Which is a shame because it used to be very active forum with plenty of up to date info and advice before Matrix decided to ignore it customers by not updating the game.

While they offer the game for sale with the 5.77 engine and may patch already built into the game,they do not offer any of the DLCs or customer support and refuse to aknowledge that the game has been updated with a new engine and patch current for AUG.2012.

This forum is about the only active English speaking one on line,and it seems that Gamersgate is about the only place you can go to and purchase this game and find all the current DLCs and patches.

[Rubeus]

Well, first of all, to say hello to everyone! 
I´m a usual reader of this forum and I love Graviteam´s games, which I play since they reach the market. I never decided to write in this forum until today, when I read this post and see this poll.
I've been playing a lot of Quick Battles in APOS (mainly because I hate the night battles in Campaign Mode) and I´ve always the same thought: this APOS is not going to have the success it deserves in life, ever. It´s sad but it´s the truth.
This simulator is very good, but if Graviteam continues focusing on creating DLCs, they will never grow. IMHO, I think you, Graviteam, should focus in other aspects more important right now.

Like Sunflowerseeds said at the beginning of this post, also I wonder: why?
Why this game isn't more well known amongst wargamers?


Well ... I think it´s due for several reasons:

1 - This game is a simulator, not a game. And, like most good simulators, it needs so much effort to achieve a good handling, and not everyone is willing (or have the time) to do so. You need to study a lot of keys and commands. And let´s make this very clear: the Game English Manual is still very, very bad.  So, you have to discover so much thins for yourself (yes, another effort to add!!).


2 - No WEGO system. No, I´m not going to start comparing with "Combat Mission" and so... Although it´s quite difficult to avoid it, right? I mean, the WEGO system already exists and it´s notorious that is the system most of we (wargamers) prefer in this kind of tactical simulators: mainly because we don´t lose detail of what´s happening in the battlefield, we can take our screenshots when we want to, we can recreate war-movies easily ... I don´t know exactly how to explain it, but the WEGO system has better feel. It´s something that is so clear. APOS is VERY WELL PROGRAMMED, very well optimized, much better than "Combat Mission: Battle for Normandy". Graviteam programmers are extremely talented, that´s for sure. But it´s a pity that APOS hasn´t WEGO SYSTEM, hasn´t MULTIPLAYER and hasn´t got a GOOD ENGLISH MANUAL.  If you, Graviteam, decide to expand boundaries, going beyond Ukraine and translate your products into English ... Well... I think you should do things right, get yourself good translators, go find someone who can communicate and explain your product in the Western style and WITH YOUR ALREADY HI-QUALITY PRODUCTS you´ll sell more, man! Much more!! 


3 - As a war simulator game, its control is very complex, and therefore you only will enjoy it in the long run, not at short-medium term. Admittedly, game's interface could be much improved, and at the beginning you´ll spend most of the time fighting with the UI    I say the same here: people from Graviteam have extraordinary abilities to program games. I compare you as heavy metal musicians: they´ve such a command of a bass, a guitar or a battery that, when put to play any other style of music, they can do it without any effort    Graviteam programmers are the same: you could program what ever games you want. However, the fault is on the translation to the user which don´t know nothing about your product, and you need to explain much better how it works! In a recent post over this forum, Voidhunger and Andy12345 said that one of the objectives that are set to meet in 2013 is: "Systematic and improvement of all aspects inevitability of the game to reduce the" barrier to entry "for new arrivals comrades". I hope you will because I think it´s one of the main barrier you have in front of your company expansion.


4 - As I said before, game English manual is still very bad. This is another key point that must be fixed as soon as possible. The manual has no order. Perhaps it´s made by one of the programmers, who knows a lot how the game works, of course, but, and here is the KEY, has no idea how to explain it to somebody who doesn´t know nothing about it. The manual game must be clear, systematic and didactic. And now, it is not. It's like in school: there´re teachers who know a lot about their subject but cannot explain properly to someone who does not know anything about that subjetc. And this is a shame.


I think these points are key if you want to move forward and give Graviteam the same level of competition over Blattlefront minimally.
From my point of view, APOS is more dramatic, more cinematic, more random (ie, there´re many surprises during the simulation every time you play a game and this is awesome!!  ), has a huge and very enjoyable maps, has much more enjoyable details... than "Combat Mission".  APOS is the best real-time tactical simulator I've ever played (far better than any Close Combat, Theatre of War, Total War and others ...). But ... I hate to say this ... CMBN keeps winning in this terrain. For very little, but CMBN is still The King of wargame tactical simulators.

And repeat: it´s a bloody shame!! Because your simulator it´s VERY GOOD and you´re very near to perfection 

I´ll continue coming into this forum and see how is your simulator evolving... And always hope that all these big changes were planned for 2013. I´m sure you´ll score a big hit if you do well 

Kindest regards!
R

[andrey12345]

WEGO will not be, is an dead-end system and totally unrealistic, and the whole from the past. I can understand its use in the game with inconvenient interface such as CM, when there is neither automatic nor orders for groups  - is essentially an emergency.
I hope these crutches that called WEGO is inevitably wither 

"The manual game must be clear, systematic and didactic." I would say it is not needed at all. 
Manual (English or Russian) in a future releases will be removed completely.

"I think these points are key if you want to move forward and give Graviteam the same level of competition over Blattlefront minimally."
No do not want. Wargames in the current form are dying slowly but surely, it makes no sense to focus on them. This is a dead end road.

[Rubeus]

WEGO will not be, is an dead-end system and totally unrealistic, and the whole from the past. I can understand its use in the game with inconvenient interface such as CM, when there is neither automatic nor orders for groups  - is essentially an emergency.
I hope these crutches that called WEGO is inevitably wither 

Yes, I know WEGO system is unrealistic but I think that in this kind of games (tactical wargames) it´s a more enjoyable and accesible system than Real Time system. You have a better feeling when there´s too much action and you want control everything and not loose any detail... But, hey! This is just my opinion and that´s it. It´s not important at all... 

"The manual game must be clear, systematic and didactic." I would say it is not needed at all. 
Manual (English or Russian) in a future releases will be removed completely.

Oh, dear. Well, I just tried with my last post to answer the question of Sunflowerseeds, and also to comment the post of Voidhunger when he said that "one of the objectives that are set to meet in 2013 is: "Systematic and improvement of all aspects inevitability of the game to reduce the" barrier to entry "for new arrivals comrades". I think that a good manual for this fabolous game could be a good help for those called "new arrivals comrades". But nevermind: surely I´m wrong again... 

"I think these points are key if you want to move forward and give Graviteam the same level of competition over Blattlefront minimally."
No do not want. Wargames in the current form are dying slowly but surely, it makes no sense to focus on them. This is a dead end road.

Ok. Wargames in the current form are dead. So, don´t waste more time on them. Goodbye now!! 
(this is very sad...).

I hope, at least, that now Sunflowerseeds knows why APOS is not more wellknown among wargamers... I belong to a Spanish wargame club called "Punta de Lanza" and APOS is a very well-known tactic simulator for everyone in this club. But because it hasn´t a good manual, because it hasn´t a turn based system and because it hasn´t multiplayer, this game is not very popular by the whole members of this wargame club. Anyway, now we´re going to shut down the club because turn based WEGO games are dead... sigh... 

Kindest regards,
R

[wodin]

I disagree highly that Wego is both unrealistic and a dead end system. It's no less realistic than realtime. Until a Tac AI is capable of human thought then realtime is just as unrealistic. I'm not  a trained General I need time to think and ponder I need to review in detail what just happened across the battlefield then work out what I need to do, something  a trained commander can do on the fly but not something a civilian can, do WEGO gives me this with the replay function. Also because you can't fully rely on an AI to respond properly WEGO gives you more opions as I said to review their performance and then respond. Finally the beauty is the replay and catching all the action.

I certainly don't want WEGO to wither and die..the one reason I put CMx2 above this series is due to WEGO.

[andrey12345]

I disagree highly that Wego is both unrealistic and a dead end system. It's no less realistic than realtime. Until a Tac AI is capable of human thought then realtime is just as unrealistic. I'm not  a trained General I need time to think and ponder I need to review in detail what just happened across the battlefield then work out what I need to do, something  a trained commander can do on the fly but not something a civilian can, do WEGO gives me this with the replay function. Also because you can't fully rely on an AI to respond properly WEGO gives you more opions as I said to review their performance and then respond. Finally the beauty is the replay and catching all the action.

I certainly don't want WEGO to wither and die..the one reason I put CMx2 above this series is due to WEGO.

Let's start, what is realistic? 
Realistic is the same as in real life. (or very similar to it in base.)
Now look at WEGO and real life:
WEGO - discrete time, blocking the possibility of starting an order at any time.
Real life - continuous time (which did not stop or rewind), but the opportunity you can start an order at any time.

WEGO - in general has nothing to do with real life, and therefore if a game based on such a system, then we can talk about realism in quotation marks, only as "realism".

For example see at CM series and see how WEGO pushed into a corner and replaced by realtime with the release of Shock Force. Ie then disappeared when technical necessity in it.

But I understand some people like to play chess, but it's irrelevant to realism.

[andrey12345]

Yes, I know WEGO system is unrealistic but I think that in this kind of games (tactical wargames) it´s a more enjoyable and accesible system than Real Time system. You have a better feeling when there´s too much action and you want control everything and not loose any detail... But, hey! This is just my opinion and that´s it. It´s not important at all... 

I would say that such a system may be for many hardcore players more familiar and suitable. Ok .... now mercantile and mercenary  . Take the audience of modern FPS (or RTS) games. This is many many times more than the audience for wargames in the best of times. And the shooters (and RTS) as you know they are totally not WEGO
Ie if you want to have wargame audience has expanded and as a result there are new better games WEGO is not an option at all.

"Systematic and improvement of all aspects inevitability of the game to reduce the" barrier to entry "for new arrivals comrades".[/i]

Yes, writing a bad or even good, but still boring  manual is clearly not a way to attract players
Interactive ingame help system and general  game improvements are better ways.
If game need a manual - game still need to be improvement 

Ok. Wargames in the current form are dead. So, don´t waste more time on them. Goodbye now!! 

Yes I am completely agree, this is exactly the reason why we focus on the simulator and realtime, not a WEGO wargame. 

[Dane49]

You have the ability to pause this game and issue commands while in the pause mode and you can also look all around the battlefield and witness all the little details while in pause mode too .Which to me is a form of WEGO.

I personally can do without the whole WEGO requests,IMHO WEGO is a function of board gamming and has no place in a real time tactical simulator.

WEGO is fine if you want to micro manage your forces and take all the time in the world to work all the little details into your next move,but I could never play this game in that way.I never liked the idea of taking hours to simulate 1-2 minutes of real time.The level of micro management necessary and demanded by the players in the CM games has completely turned me off of that series and system.

Matter of fact they have gone so far into implementing as much minute and irrelevent minutea into that game that focusing on tactics is secondary to the whole micro managed WEGO experience.

CM is to me nothing more than an over engineered board game posing as a 3D combat simulator,considering that the graphics for CM aren't all that great either,I don't know why CM even bothered with the whole 3D aspect.They should have went with what to me is where they actually are-

Into making a board game that is playable on the PC without trying to model in 3D graphics that they could never get to work properly in a 3D environment anyways.

CM has basically done to their game the same thing Squad leader did to theirs,with the whole ASL rules lawyer dictionaries that added so many layers of minutea and complexity on top of the simplest of mechanics as to make every single move an uncomfortably long exercise in frustration and non stop micro management.

It no longer was fun to play those games-It became a chore,it became Work!

[wodin]

Dane I disagree wholeheartedly..don't want a debate but you can't see exactly what is happening across the battlefield even in pause because you can't replay the last turn etc and watch what is happening. I know I miss out on lots of action because it's realtime as you can't be everywhere at the same time..with WEGO you can be.

What  WEGO allows you over realtime is the ability to rewind and be everywhere..

[Dane49]

Well maybe one day a WEGO option can be offered for the game for those players who prefer it.

I'm not a fan of WEGO so it doesn't really bother me ,but I can see how it could be disheartening for some who actually like that style of play.

Another reason I like Real Time is that Andrey stated that if this game  were to ever get Multi-Player support it will be for Quick Battles in Real Time mode.

So that for me is another reason for supporting Real Time,other than the fact I actually prefer it.

[Tanker]

Good, I guarantee you putting your products on Steam will make alot fewer of us will buy it. In addition Steam doesnt seem to want to sell wargames. Matrixgames on the other hand wouldnt be a bad idea.

Nothing wrong with Steam for me.  I get a lot of games there and I'm happy for the most part with the service.  Matrix is ok but it tends to have high prices for games that have been out for years.

[Dane49]

Matrix doesn't support this game.

They post no patches or updates and offer none of the DLCs for sale.
The only thing you get from Matrix is the core game with the 5.77 engine for $20.

They haven't notified any of their customers that the game has been updated twice since they began selling it,and exclusively rely on fans of the game to keep everyone else interested in the game informed about Graviteams plans and offerings.

Matrix is crap,I don't recommend them at all.

[Rubeus]

I disagree highly that Wego is both unrealistic and a dead end system. It's no less realistic than realtime. Until a Tac AI is capable of human thought then realtime is just as unrealistic. I'm not  a trained General I need time to think and ponder I need to review in detail what just happened across the battlefield then work out what I need to do, something  a trained commander can do on the fly but not something a civilian can, do WEGO gives me this with the replay function. Also because you can't fully rely on an AI to respond properly WEGO gives you more opions as I said to review their performance and then respond. Finally the beauty is the replay and catching all the action.

I certainly don't want WEGO to wither and die..the one reason I put CMx2 above this series is due to WEGO.

Let's start, what is realistic? 
Realistic is the same as in real life. (or very similar to it in base.)
Now look at WEGO and real life:
WEGO - discrete time, blocking the possibility of starting an order at any time.
Real life - continuous time (which did not stop or rewind), but the opportunity you can start an order at any time.

WEGO - in general has nothing to do with real life, and therefore if a game based on such a system, then we can talk about realism in quotation marks, only as "realism".

For example see at CM series and see how WEGO pushed into a corner and replaced by realtime with the release of Shock Force. Ie then disappeared when technical necessity in it.

But I understand some people like to play chess, but it's irrelevant to realism.

Yes, I know WEGO system is unrealistic but I think that in this kind of games (tactical wargames) it´s a more enjoyable and accesible system than Real Time system. You have a better feeling when there´s too much action and you want control everything and not loose any detail... But, hey! This is just my opinion and that´s it. It´s not important at all... 

I would say that such a system may be for many hardcore players more familiar and suitable. Ok .... now mercantile and mercenary  . Take the audience of modern FPS (or RTS) games. This is many many times more than the audience for wargames in the best of times. And the shooters (and RTS) as you know they are totally not WEGO
Ie if you want to have wargame audience has expanded and as a result there are new better games WEGO is not an option at all.

"Systematic and improvement of all aspects inevitability of the game to reduce the" barrier to entry "for new arrivals comrades".[/i]

Yes, writing a bad or even good, but still boring  manual is clearly not a way to attract players
Interactive ingame help system and general  game improvements are better ways.
If game need a manual - game still need to be improvement 

Ok. Wargames in the current form are dead. So, don´t waste more time on them. Goodbye now!! 

Yes I am completely agree, this is exactly the reason why we focus on the simulator and realtime, not a WEGO wargame. 

OK, Andrey12345. Thank you very much for your quick, clear and nice reply 

It´s a pity that your company will not bet on WEGO system (or including an option in your games for those that we like this turn based system). But, hey! You´re looking for a big and modern audience, so I understand your decision. In the meantime, I´ll still be playing the new "X-COM" from Firaxis Games and 2K. It´s turn-based, it´s modern, it´s unreal, but... it´s a great game!! Very intuitive, very good playbility, very adictive... Just another turn-based great game! (...umh... maybe these kind of turn-based, chess-like games still aren´t dead...??    ).

I think now it's pretty clear what will be the next step for Graviteam. And also, it´s clear that times are changing ... Better times? ... Umh ... I don´t know...: maybe yes, maybe not ...
 
Also, I´ve read there´re members of this forum who´ve said that WEGO system is an attempt to bring a boardgame to the field of 3D digital games, which I don´t see it as a bad thing. The problem it seems that it is not profitable at all, it´s require too much micromanagement, and that's not attractive to a majority. Well, I think that´s fine. Or maybe it´s just a question of create something new, which is more difficult. I mean, when you create something new you´ve to increase your investment risk, which is a bad thing in these economic difficult times, and usually people don´t like new things, don´t like to read for learning, don´t like to see different things...: we all are tending towards homogeneity and that is something clear and unavoidable, like in Aldous Huxley´s "Brave New World". It´s a pity but that´s the reality.

Now, I confess I´m very curious to see how Graviteam will attract new users in future...   
I hope not you´ll transform APOS into a game with 2 only commands or keys 
Or worse:  transform your games into a kind of Total War or in a kind of Theatre of War ... I think that like any small company, you´ll need to create something different from the rest if you want to survive. Because as small business, if you offer the same product as a large company, you´ll go to hell very soon... It´s a market law 

Kindest regards,
R

[andrey12345]

It´s a pity that your company will not bet on WEGO system (or including an option in your games for those that we like this turn based system). But, hey! You´re looking for a big and modern audience, so I understand your decision. In the meantime, I´ll still be playing the new "X-COM" from Firaxis Games and 2K. It´s turn-based, it´s modern, it´s unreal, but... it´s a great game!! Very intuitive, very good playbility, very adictive... Just another turn-based great game! (...umh... maybe these kind of turn-based, chess-like games still aren´t dead...??    ).

Yes but its completly unrealistic and not a WEGO.  Turn based is Ok in some cases, we still use it in operational phase too.

And also, it´s clear that times are changing ... Better times? ... Umh ... I don´t know...: maybe yes, maybe not ...

Yes, 1998-2004 is more better times for wargames than now.
Then see how much is really new games released in this genre from 1998-2004, and how much now 2008-2012.
Of sales I'm not talking at all.

Also, I´ve read there´re members of this forum who´ve said that WEGO system is an attempt to bring a boardgame to the field of 3D digital games, which I don´t see it as a bad thing. The problem it seems that it is not profitable at all, it´s require too much micromanagement, and that's not attractive to a majority. Well, I think that´s fine. Or maybe it´s just a question of create something new, which is more difficult. I mean, when you create something new you´ve to increase your investment risk, which is a bad thing in these economic difficult times, and usually people don´t like new things, don´t like to read for learning, don´t like to see different things...: we all are tending towards homogeneity and that is something clear and unavoidable, like in Aldous Huxley´s "Brave New World". It´s a pity but that´s the reality.

It just so happens that we have a slightly different concept and micromanagement is not desirable in our game and we are fighting with it. In fact it is all aimed at the same goal as the WEGO - show for players a nice combat, but in a more natural way. Without delays and lags by automating the process. Where in classical wargame you have to do 10 clicks, in our game is enough of one (and in free time you may see to the battle). You do not waste time on such nonsense, which can take the PC (through AI) itself. PC because available us to remove the routine in the game, it is reasonable to use it for this. And strange issue is the lack of automation - is the dignity of the game system 

Now, I confess I´m very curious to see how Graviteam will attract new users in future...   
I hope not you´ll transform APOS into a game with 2 only commands or keys 
Or worse:  transform your games into a kind of Total War or in a kind of Theatre of War ... I think that like any small company, you´ll need to create something different from the rest if you want to survive. Because as small business, if you offer the same product as a large company, you´ll go to hell very soon... It´s a market law 

I think we have already create something that is different from all others, and this from the beginning was planned. To turn away from this path are not planned.

Because in that time when we started develop it was impossible to play normally in any wargame.
CMBB - is micromanagement, strange unrealistic things and WEGO
TOW - is total micromanagement and strange missions
CC - is good concept but in 2D and AI is poor.
others is worse.

[wodin]

Though I will always prefer WEGO to realtime I have to say APOS and Graviteam have made a game that is realtime and I find playable and not a click fest in any way at all..for that thy deserve huge amount of credit. A superb achievement and I hope the tac ai gets better and better as this goes along way to not having to micromanage everything. APOS already gets this right far more than any other RTS game. I hope that carries on in the future games.

[Rubeus]

It´s a pity that your company will not bet on WEGO system (or including an option in your games for those that we like this turn based system). But, hey! You´re looking for a big and modern audience, so I understand your decision. In the meantime, I´ll still be playing the new "X-COM" from Firaxis Games and 2K. It´s turn-based, it´s modern, it´s unreal, but... it´s a great game!! Very intuitive, very good playbility, very adictive... Just another turn-based great game! (...umh... maybe these kind of turn-based, chess-like games still aren´t dead...??    ).

Yes but its completly unrealistic and not a WEGO.  Turn based is Ok in some cases, we still use it in operational phase too.

Yes, I see... 

And also, it´s clear that times are changing ... Better times? ... Umh ... I don´t know...: maybe yes, maybe not ...

Yes, 1998-2004 is more better times for wargames than now.
Then see how much is really new games released in this genre from 1998-2004, and how much now 2008-2012.
Of sales I'm not talking at all.

Yes, you´re right.
Or maybe Global Economic Crisis has something to do with that... who knows... 

Also, I´ve read there´re members of this forum who´ve said that WEGO system is an attempt to bring a boardgame to the field of 3D digital games, which I don´t see it as a bad thing. The problem it seems that it is not profitable at all, it´s require too much micromanagement, and that's not attractive to a majority. Well, I think that´s fine. Or maybe it´s just a question of create something new, which is more difficult. I mean, when you create something new you´ve to increase your investment risk, which is a bad thing in these economic difficult times, and usually people don´t like new things, don´t like to read for learning, don´t like to see different things...: we all are tending towards homogeneity and that is something clear and unavoidable, like in Aldous Huxley´s "Brave New World". It´s a pity but that´s the reality.

It just so happens that we have a slightly different concept and micromanagement is not desirable in our game and we are fighting with it. In fact it is all aimed at the same goal as the WEGO - show for players a nice combat, but in a more natural way. Without delays and lags by automating the process. Where in classical wargame you have to do 10 clicks, in our game is enough of one (and in free time you may see to the battle). You do not waste time on such nonsense, which can take the PC (through AI) itself. PC because available us to remove the routine in the game, it is reasonable to use it for this. And strange issue is the lack of automation - is the dignity of the game system 

Yes, it´s crystal clear that we have different concepts about what would be "the perfect wargame", isn´t it? He, he, he   

Now, I confess I´m very curious to see how Graviteam will attract new users in future...   
I hope not you´ll transform APOS into a game with 2 only commands or keys 
Or worse:  transform your games into a kind of Total War or in a kind of Theatre of War ... I think that like any small company, you´ll need to create something different from the rest if you want to survive. Because as small business, if you offer the same product as a large company, you´ll go to hell very soon... It´s a market law 

I think we have already create something that is different from all others, and this from the beginning was planned. To turn away from this path are not planned.

Because in that time when we started develop it was impossible to play normally in any wargame.
CMBB - is micromanagement, strange unrealistic things and WEGO
TOW - is total micromanagement and strange missions
CC - is good concept but in 2D and AI is poor.
others is worse.

Thank you again, Andrey, for your quick and clear reply.
As I said before, it´s clear we have different points of view about the turn-based WEGO system.
I'm surprised that no one in the videogame´s scene in the world consider a person giving simultaneous orders to dozens of units is not unreal.
I think that comparing RTS with WEGO and talking about REALISM is a little bit absurd (I´m sorry, but I think it is), because both systems are equally unreal, the only difference is that in a stressful situation RTS is continuous and WEGO not, but it´s a stress-induced unreal having to give orders continued to lots of elements, and has nothing to do with the actual stress of being in charge.
If someone made a game where you (the commander) had limited knowledge of the actual situation, and dispatching orders were are limited to items (for which a commander really has control in reallity), and the limited resources available to transmit... Hey! That would be realistic for sure!   
But if that is not met, then the use of WEGO is as realistic as any other system of play, and in these cases you have direct control and instant on a myriad of units, which is much more satisfying to play (IMHO). But all of this has absolutely nothing to do with realism 

In fact, the only thing that gives a bonus to the WEGO system over the RTS is that you cannot give direct orders for a minute (or the duration of the turn). At least, something that limits the player's omniscience!! 

Also, and about the Wire Communication in Game (see another post of this forum): it´s another good oportunity to introduce more realism in the game; I mean to say, to introduce a command delay in the orders 

Kindest regards,
R

[andrey12345]

Or maybe Global Economic Crisis has something to do with that... who knows... 

But in some another genres we see growth. I think it's some another issue.

Yes, it´s crystal clear that we have different concepts about what would be "the perfect wargame", isn´t it? He, he, he   

Yes of course 

As I said before, it´s clear we have different points of view about the turn-based WEGO system.
I'm surprised that no one in the videogame´s scene in the world consider a person giving simultaneous orders to dozens of units is not unreal.
I think that comparing RTS with WEGO and talking about REALISM is a little bit absurd (I´m sorry, but I think it is), because both systems are equally unreal, the only difference is that in a stressful situation RTS is continuous and WEGO not, but it´s a stress-induced unreal having to give orders continued to lots of elements, and has nothing to do with the actual stress of being in charge.

It's almost at all wargames (Realtime or WEGO), but we have more convenient because it is unrealistic thing, as you rightly pointed out, a player does not spend a lot of time.
Squad, platoon and company go to perform the same task and work together, rather than separately, which in my opinion makes this annoying nuance is not so unrealistic, in our game 

About realtime vs WEGO - disagree. In real life you dont have a time to think hours and hours in stress situations. Realtime its totally best and realistic refer this.

If someone made a game where you (the commander) had limited knowledge of the actual situation, and dispatching orders were are limited to items (for which a commander really has control in reallity), and the limited resources available to transmit... Hey! That would be realistic for sure!   

Yes but here we are confronted with the fact that it is a game. And there's no sense in hiding information from the player  or add lags. This kills the desire to play and pushes players. This in my opinion is the reason why the popularity of the wargames is low.

But if that is not met, then the use of WEGO is as realistic as any other system of play, and in these cases you have direct control and instant on a myriad of units, which is much more satisfying to play (IMHO).

So WEGO itself not enough to play with a large number of units, it is necessary to give orders to all of it that takes time and is very uninteresting part. It turns out that you do 90% not interesting and 10% interesting, it's bad for the game.

In fact, the only thing that gives a bonus to the WEGO system over the RTS is that you cannot give direct orders for a minute (or the duration of the turn). At least, something that limits the player's omniscience!! 

Its complete not realistic bonus I think
In real-life no discrete time and commander not watch a clock - "oh 1 minute and 30 seconds I am not give orders.....oh yes 2 minute 00 seconds ... wait guys we will discuss orders individually about 2 hours"
Its really strange at all.

Also, and about the Wire Communication in Game (see another post of this forum): it´s another good oportunity to introduce more realism in the game; I mean to say, to introduce a command delay in the orders 

Sorry no delays - delays its a bad for game. Wire+commands will be done by another way.