Hull to Gun Command?

[nodlew]

I've looked, and I can't find a "Hull to Gun" command for the Driver, or a "Hull to View" command. This is very irritating because it makes navigation difficult and clunky. I can tell my driver to turn right or left in specific increments, but he never ends up pointing exactly where I want him to. I know I can use the F key to bring up the commander's red cross-hair and use the right mouse button, but this gives orders to the rest of my Unit to go to where ever it was that I clicked, forcing me to go back to the map and use the "Do As I Do" command to keep them in formation with me. What am I missing here? How could the Devs have overlooked this order which has been a feature of every other tank sim I have ever played? Also, the Follow Road order doesn't seem to work. What up wit dat?

[Rends]

Well i´m not sure if we talk about the same "hull down" but there is there defensive button you can try.
If you click on it AI driver search for the nearest defensive point location.
But it´s up to the mission creastor to put them (the defensive positions)  in a usefull way and i´m not sure if they are in. At least the game engine/editor supports them.
Follow road command works at least if this command was scripted in the mission. Dunno if there is a autofunction ingame. I bet not because how should AI know wich direction you want to drive on the road. Again, it´s up to the Mission creator to put the function in if he find it usefull on the map.
If you ask me than stock missions use only 30 percent of what the game engine is capable.

[nodlew]

Yeah, I know about the "find cover" button. No, I mean "Hull to Gun/Hull to view". What it does is it instructs the driver of the tank to turn the frontal armor of the tank to face the same direction as the Gun, or the Commander's view. It accomplishes either of two things--1) It points the most heavily armored face of the tank toward the target being currently engaged, or 2) It causes the Driver to turn in the same direction that the commander (or gunner) is pointed, allowing the player to direct the travel of the tank very precisely.

Every tank sim has had such a command. As I said, this is the first one I've ever played that has omitted the command. And, also as I said, the F Key Way Point command can be used to do something similar, but it is a relatively inefficient way to do it. Here's an example. I am sitting on the reverse slope of a hill. An enemy tank crests the hill and swivels its turret toward me. I want my frontal armor pointed at the enemy tank rather than a more vulnerable quadrant of the tank. I have to press F, use the red cross-hair to click on a point on the terrain where I want my driver to turn. I want to turn to face the target, but I want to stay where I am, not move to a new way point. So I have to press F, click on the terrain in the direction of the threat, then as soon as the driver makes the turn, I hit Q to stop the tank, then I have to hit F again to exit the Way Point order mode so I can engage the tank.

If I'm on the move and I want my driver to go in a specific direction, I have to press F, click to place a way point (blue flag) where I want to go, press F to exit the mode, then use the accelerate key so my driver will continue driving and not stop at the point I clicked on the terrain.

If I have wingmen I have to do all of that, then in addition, I have to open the map and click the "Do As I Do" tactical command button to keep my wingmen in formation and prevent them from running off to the point I just clicked on the map if I'm stationary in a defensive position, or stopping at that point I just clicked on the map if I am on the move, and in addition to that, now I have to accelerate my tank again because using "Do As I do" causes my driver to stop my tank. Why? I have no idea. Must be a Russian thing.

With a Hull to Gun command (if I had one) the first scenario works like this. Say "Hull to Gun" is mapped to my H key. The enemy tank comes over the crest of the hill and swivels its turret toward me. If I'm looking through any of the sights I point the cross-hair at the enemy tank and press H. Done. The driver turns the hull toward the target. If I'm in the open hatch view, I just use the mouse to place the enemy tank near the center of my screen and press H. Done.

In the second scenario, say I want my driver to drive between two anti-tank obstacles. On the move, I place the cross-hair or center of my view between the obstacles and press H. Done--driver turns and drives between the obstructions.

See how much simpler and more natural that would be? It would be like the tank commander saying to the driver: "Driver, turn front hull to target." Or, "Driver, go between those two hedgehogs."  Or how about, "Driver, go that way."

[Rends]

tested some things.
Drive on road works if AI driver is set to heading to next navpoint ( key 8) and press road button (key 9).
I don´t know why you use the F key function to turn your tank.
I for myself (while still in commanders/gunner position) use always a=left or d=right to turn the tank into the direction without moving the tank if the tank stand still.
You also hear the commanders voice ("turn left/right)" which i think is more real because the driver normaly can´t check turret position.

[nodlew]

You have a point about realism there. But it's not very realistic for a commander to have to say "Driver turn right" four or five times in succession in order to achieve the desired facing. He would say, "Driver turn right 45 degrees." and have done with it, or he might just say "Driver turn right...Halt!" when the tank was facing the right way, which would be a lot like the Hull to Gun command that we don't have. Thanks for the info on using the Drive on Road function.

I use the F key because I'm in a steel box looking through a glass tube and it's difficult to get orientation straight. The F key points my tank where I want it pointed, no ifs ands or buts. And for all my complaining, it is faster than pressing A or D five times, and I don't have to listen to a directional order shouted in German or Russian repeated over and over again.

[frinik]

Nodlew; I am sorry I should have been clearer in my explanation.I was assuming that your gun was pointed at the enemy while your tank was sideways.Of coruse of your gun is facing the other side then turning the tank about is definitely faster.The Tiger I particularly - contrary to its exaggerated reputation as a lumbering giant - had the ability of whirling about very quickly if the driver would simply apply the brakes while using the steering wheel to make the tanks tracks. I am not sure if I got the manoeuvre right but I remeber reading that it often took both Allied and Soviet tankers off guards. That being said you are aboslutely right.The Tiger I turret is way too fast and as well the mass of the tanks are way too light.How many times when playing a mission have I been forced to move the tank I am using because it is sitting on top a broken tree branch, a telegraph post or barbedwire and it actually swings as if it were made of rubber???A 56 ton Tiger swinging on barbwire????It's one of the reasons they created a fix for the flying guns( you hit an AT or artilelry gun and it bounces up in the air.However the problem with the mass or lack of has not been addressed. There are many errors, flaws , inaccuracies in SF; the specs for many German tanks are understated or inaccurate whether it be the thickness of the armour in some places, the ammo load and even the muzzle velocity.What I found was too often Soviet tanks had overstated armour or muzzle velocity while for the Germans it was the opposite.I have corrected these in my multiple installs but I cannot correct the mass or speed of traverse problems. Another irritant is the number of times your gun becomes disabled ???I have posted to Graviteam to see how I can solve that problem.I remember playing 9 times the same mission and 5 times I had to stop it because my gun would become disabled. Statistically speaking this defies the odds.Yes tank guns wear off and can be disabled duringa fighting but from what I read not as often as in SF.Lastl one more flaw that needs to be addressed; reload times for many tanks is way too fast.I remeber seeing AI Tigers pumping shell after shell in a poor T34 in a matter of seconds???The best Tiger I crews could reload 8 times per minute.The norm being 5 to 6. How many times I have taken on JS2s or KVs which would reload and fire in less than 10 seconds???The correct time is at least double and the best crews could hope for 4 shells a minute. During combat it seems that the AI tanks never run out of ammo. I have seen JS2s firing for 20 minutes( they're supposed to have max 28 shells....).It seems that they never run out of AP shells either.

Ideally with Graviteam about to start work on a new WWII tank sim due to be released in mid to late 2011( about the last battle for Kharkov in August 1943) those are some of the issues that us SF fans should point out to them( including MP for those who love that aspect and comprehensive controls on the AI infantry and armour alike so the player has more control over the game, the tactics, the manoeuvres and can prevent the AI from doing dumb things). I think the lessons learned in SF will be useful in making their next one if not perfect at least a yardstick by which other sims will have to live up .Meanwhile let's be realistic only some of the issues can or will be addressed IN SF.

[nodlew]

Thanks for your replay Frinik

So there is no way to edit the values for the various tanks to fix the movement of the vehicles? Can't fix turret rotation? I thought the tiger was a mod--if they could mod the vehicle, why can't we fix the rate at which the turret rotates? Same thing with reload rates--should be a config file in there somewhere that establishes the rate at which the gun reloads. Shouldn't there? These don't sound like hard-coded problems to me. I've seen people work miracles with games--Silent Hunter 5, for example. Why can't the same be done here?