Request: Optional Kraut Molotov patch/mod

[Santini]

Hello Andrey!

Could we get an optional mod/patch adding molotovs to German infantry?

Currently they have next to no anti tank ability, which makes tank vs infantry boring and infantry vs tank iratating

Just an idea, and since I know that you yourself don't wish to play with them, having it as a patch would let players chose for themselves

[andrey12345]

Could we get an optional mod/patch adding molotovs to German infantry?

Yes you can make this mod.

Currently they have next to no anti tank ability, which makes tank vs infantry boring and infantry vs tank iratating

Its not right. German infantry have now: Gnb.39 grenade launcher with cumulative charges, Pzb.39 AT rifle, Hl.3 AT mine, pack of M-24 grenades, 3 kg explosive charge and rifle grenade launcher with cumulative charges.

Molotovs practically not effective against tanks at all, only last chance weapon like others.

[Santini]

Interesting. What then gives Russian infantry much better AT performance?

Maybe the higher armor values especially on the KV?

[Dane49]

Interesting. What then gives Russian infantry much better AT performance?

The Russians are all heroes of the Soviet Union and have nothing to look forward to but death under Stalins glorious rule.

I think that there should be at least 1 squad in each German infantry company whose sole function is that of a tank hunting(Panzer Jaeger)squad and they should be considered more effective than regular infantry squads because of better training and higher motivation to engage Soviet tanks with these weapons.

Also I think they should be attached to the company HQ platoon or at least be able to be drawn from the reserve pool for this purpose.

I had posted a link earlier in this forum that the Germans recognized that their was a need for better AT capability from their infantry and what they were doing to address this short coming.

Barring that,then I think the Germans should be able to loot the Soviet dead for their KS bottles.They're obviously effective AT weapons and I don't see why the Germans wouldn't utilize them if they found any on the Russian dead.

[chashka17]

Try reading this to your German units:
http://depositfiles.com/files/ag8ilu3al Panzerknacker
I especially like the rhyme (italics) for mnemonic purposes. 

[wodin]

I never see them use teller mines..I also see grenade bundles thrown at Inf rather than being saved for trying to immobilise a tank\afv\apc.

[Dane49]

I'm going to be fair to the game in one respect.
Two of the campaigns for this game feature the 320th Infantry Division(Taranovka and Krasny Polyana)during this time this division had been overrun and was in full retreat and had abandoned almost all its vehicles and heavy guns,they still had few Stugs and some infantry guns that were being pulled along by local livestock but most the men were short of everything except the clothes on their backs and their personal weapons.Also fortunate for them was the fact that the Soviet armor completely bypassed them and expected the follow on infantry to mop up.(Other Allied and German units during this time weren't so lucky).
The 320th was able to fend off the infantry and eventually rejoin the main line of resistance with help from the local counterattacking SS units in the area.

The main problem I see is the Russians have far too many KS bottles and aren't afraid to use them while the Germans hardly ever use their AT weapons against the Soviet tanks,coupled with the fact that the German opened topped AFVs are almost suicidal when dealing with the Soviet infantry and will drive right at them to their eventual doom.

[RedC]

And I have completely different experience!

German infantry has crazy AT capability! You can't even come close to a unit that it doesn't throw several grenades at you, and even at crazy ranges! You don't have to worry about AT support in close-combat at all.

On the other hand, when my Soviet infantry throws KS bottles, and I can hardly scratch them (especially better "protected" vehicles). Usually I have to micromanage AT gun/tank support constantly, and can't even let them be "alone" in a woods, I'm afraid that with confrontation of 1 scout vehicle, they have 20% chance of getting them (in ambush)
I find KS bottles not nearly numerous as I would like to!!

But I guess it all depends on Point of View that, and tactics that we use in this game.

[Dane49]

I find KS bottles not nearly numerous as I would like to!!

That's probably because they waste them trying to kill individual infantrymen.
Today during a game I watched my Russian soldiers throw 4 KS bottles at 1 German soldier

The German Infantry squads in this game are throwing demo packs and grenade bundles at the infantry also.

I don't mind seeing this happen when there are a group of enemy soldiers nearby,but to see them use these weapons on individuals is just wrong.

[RedC]

That's probably because they waste them trying to kill individual infantrymen.
Today during a game I watched my Russian soldiers throw 4 KS bottles at 1 German soldier

Yes! That is highly annoying, thank you for reminding us!
I even had moments where entrenched unit on the edge of the wood, got confronted with a lagging line of enemy scouts, going directly and unorganized towards their little trench. They tossed ALL they had on a front guy (enemy scout march line was streched about >100 meter, and units spaced out more then 10m away), and KEPT throwing while he was already dead. (I know they wouldn't know if he died or not, but I think its normal after 5 explosions tossed at a poor guy's teeth, its a rule of war that he is considered dead, especially looking parts of the tissue flying around...) Added: They were informed on the line, so its not like they throwed thinking they are all around the front guy.

My point was, aside of this, that German AT capability in infantry is hilariously overpowered. compared to the Soviet one presently at the game. And KS bottles are more or less useless (except under very special circumstances) against better armored vehicles, and RPG-40 was not so efficient for certain armored parts of the "better armored" tanks (You would think that units getting them would be tutored where to throw it against what tank -if they can't penetrate front, throw it at the engine/caterpillars/optics).

Also I only noticed RPG-40 as soviet anti-tank granade (Talking about Great Patriotic War), what about RPG-41? (RPG-43 is for missions in 1943) http://www.megasword.ru/index.php?pg=812

[andrey12345]

Also I only noticed RPG-40 as soviet anti-tank granade (Talking about Great Patriotic War), what about RPG-41? (RPG-43 is for missions in 1943) http://www.megasword.ru/index.php?pg=812

RPG 41  is practically the same than RPG 40.

In 1943, those operations that there in game now, RPG-43 could not appear if we dont have time machine

[RedC]

In 1943, those operations that there in game now, RPG-43 could not appear if we dont have time machine

True, it was designed in 1942, officially tests started in April 1943...etc (For now, all operations are all in Feb. and March '43)
Time machine is a good idea! You need to give us that option in quick battles/campaigns, to arm our/enemy troops with modern weapon systems , Smells like a good DLC!

RPG 41  is practically the same than RPG 40.

Well its true, but aside from being heavier (less range, max ~15m) and more powerful (could penetrate more 5-10mm, and/or dislodge more on a tank with a shockwave/i.e. shattering engine compartment on then medium and heavier tanks/).

Soviets need KS Bottle distribution panel! We need to be able to over-arm our troops with KS bottles

[andrey12345]

Well its true, but aside from being heavier (less range, max ~15m) and more powerful (could penetrate more 5-10mm, and/or dislodge more on a tank with a shockwave/i.e. shattering engine compartment on then medium and heavier tanks/).

RPG-41 have some variants (with overpowered and normal 1Kg variant) - as fact is a mobilization version of RPG-40.

[RedC]

Now that you've mentioned it, I was wondering, do the code of the game accept variations, in terms of penetration/strength of grenades and shells that are susceptible to such variations?

Meaning, if penetration for RPG-40 is 30mm in the table, does that mean that game will acknowledge variations (+-10mm or similar), or its very strict "mathematic"?

[FB_AGA]

By ammo statements of some RKKA Inf. divisions (76, 124 southern sector [Volokonovka - Stalingrad]; 56, 90 northern sector (Wolchov - Leningrad]) RPG-41 (2 KG AT granate)  was widely used in the spring and summer of 1942, in autumn it became quite rare in this divisions and no evidence of its presents in troops around Kharkov in February-March 43 or Mius in the summer 43 (in infantry battalions of tank brigades). According to ammo statements of mot. infantry troops of Mech. brigades, RKKA used only RPG-40 as AT granades in July Mius operation. But I have no information about ordinary infantry divisions in that operation.

[andrey12345]

Now that you've mentioned it, I was wondering, do the code of the game accept variations, in terms of penetration/strength of grenades and shells that are susceptible to such variations?

Yes. Its not a game code, but configuration file with various shells descriptions.

Meaning, if penetration for RPG-40 is 30mm in the table, does that mean that game will acknowledge variations (+-10mm or similar), or its very strict "mathematic"?

Penetration for this types of projectiles is very conditional thing. They dont penetrated armor like AP shell (kinetic energy), but breach armor at the expense of high explosive power.  That is highly dependent on the conditions when grenade explode. 30 mm in this case is just a number that can mean completely different things.

[RedC]

Now that you've mentioned it, I was wondering, do the code of the game accept variations, in terms of penetration/strength of grenades and shells that are susceptible to such variations?

Yes. Its not a game code, but configuration file with various shells descriptions.

Meaning, if penetration for RPG-40 is 30mm in the table, does that mean that game will acknowledge variations (+-10mm or similar), or its very strict "mathematic"?

Penetration for this types of projectiles is very conditional thing. They dont penetrated armor like AP shell (kinetic energy), but breach armor at the expense of high explosive power.  That is highly dependent on the conditions when grenade explode. 30 mm in this case is just a number that can mean completely different things.

This is what I originally thought, but had no evidences! I'm very glad!
By far this is the best war simulation engine on the consumer market, and its getting better and better! All the praises go to the developers!!