March 2013 update (news and discussion)

[Shadrach]

First I'd really like some info on what the different radio-related icons mean.

I only assume they are related to the radio though, since I have not seen them before, but they look like they have something to do with radio. I had a search in the manual packed with the game but that's only updated in 2011.

These guys:









And they can be combined apparently:

[Flanker15]

First I'd really like some info on what the different radio-related icons mean.

I only assume they are related to the radio though, since I have not seen them before, but they look like they have something to do with radio. I had a search in the manual packed with the game but that's only updated in 2011.

These guys:

Im transmitting enemy intel to another squad

I'm transmitting enemy intel to my squad

I'm under ai control and the ai wants to give me an order but cant due to lack of command energy (blue means ai order received)

I've recieved enemy intel by voice (phone means wired and (-) is radio, scattered random dots means info is being received)

And they can be combined apparently:

as above

[Schuck]

Just a couple of things to mention to do with the update.
Im loving the green and red flares, something to do with communication when out of radio range? Im not sure, but they sure look good.
And the purple one for priority air targets, really good.

But can someone tell me what the large smoke trail across the sky is, it looks like a meteor strike! No apparent flare though, so what is it?
And how do you get the "Mark with smoke" function to work? There's a button for it on the control panel, but i cant seem to find any mention of it in the game tutorial.

Any help gratefully recieved! Thanks.

[Flanker15]

Smoke rockets used to roughly point out enemy positions.

[andrey12345]

But can someone tell me what the large smoke trail across the sky is, it looks like a meteor strike! No apparent flare though, so what is it?

Its a black color flare - used to target designation on day conditions - Black is visible better in daylight than other colors.
By fact is not a true flare is an somthing like smoke charge for clearly visible black trace.
In night conditions black tracer changed to illumination flare of white fire and blue color flare for target designation.

[Shadrach]

Im transmitting enemy intel to another squad

I'm transmitting enemy intel to my squad

I'm under ai control and the ai wants to give me an order but cant due to lack of command energy (blue means ai order received)

I've recieved enemy intel by voice (phone means wired and (-) is radio, scattered random dots means info is being received)

And they can be combined apparently:

as above

Ok thanks for that, very helpful

By 'squad' - I assume you mean other platoons/units, since 'squad' would make no sense in the context of being only a few men.

Not sure what is meant by "command energy" either? You mean the squad is too far away from the platoon cmdr to receive it? That would make sense, since this was a mortar unit and it was the one farthest away from the mortar platoon commander.

Since apparently you know this - any idea where this might be written down?  

[andrey12345]

"I'm under ai control and the ai wants to give me an order but cant due to lack of command energy (blue means ai order received)" -

It's not quite true - unit can not comply the order because:
1) is not allowed to control the AI ​​commander (button unchecked)
2) there is no line of fire (for orders to fire on the target designation)
3) some other technical reasons - no shells, the gunner killed, can not move, etc.

Command level only affects the player's orders not AI.

[andrey12345]

Im transmitting enemy intel to another squad

I'm transmitting enemy intel to my squad

I'm under ai control and the ai wants to give me an order but cant due to lack of command energy (blue means ai order received)

I've recieved enemy intel by voice (phone means wired and (-) is radio, scattered random dots means info is being received)

And they can be combined apparently:

as above

Ok thanks for that, very helpful

By 'squad' - I assume you mean other platoons/units, since 'squad' would make no sense in the context of being only a few men.

Not sure what is meant by "command energy" either? You mean the squad is too far away from the platoon cmdr to receive it? That would make sense, since this was a mortar unit and it was the one farthest away from the mortar platoon commander.

Since apparently you know this - any idea where this might be written down?  

Orders from AI is recieved only if communication link is estabilished: wire, tankphone, radio, voice or by smoke/flares but not stable.

[sandman2575]

Is it REALLY too much to ask for a clear explanation -- in ONE place, like a READ ME -- of the new C&C rules and the many different radio / communications icons and colors?      I'm not talking about a change log.  I'm talking about a clear explanation of new features and how they work.

Graviteam, I want to continue supporting you -- I've bought every bit of Achtung Panzer content since Kharkov '43 first came out, and I think these are excellent games -- but I must say, your refusal to provide updated documentation on how the game works is now really trying my patience.  For a newcomer, the game is now nearly incomprehensible, especially since the "game manual" pdf that you include is from 2009.  The updated 2012 "Quick Start" guide is a mere 19 pages long and provides only the most basic information imaginable. 

I know you have limited resources and time.  I understand that English is not your native language, and believe me, I appreciate that you are providing this game to English speaking customers. I am sure that it must be a big effort to do this.  But I'm here to tell you -- the effort you've been putting in is not enough anymore.  You risk alienating your devoted fans (like me) and losing new buyers who look at this and say, "This is way too hard to install and figure out. I have no idea how to play because so little is clearly explained, and I don't have time to spend hours surfing the net for one tip here, another explanation there."

GRAVITEAM:  WE NEED MORE HELP FROM YOU.

[andrey12345]

Is it REALLY too much to ask for a clear explanation -- in ONE place, like a READ ME -- of the new C&C rules and the many different radio / communications icons and colors?      I'm not talking about a change log.  I'm talking about a clear explanation of new features and how they work.

In last patch its in ONE place - ingame help system - available at any time directly ingame and do not even have to look for anything in the readme. It describes all the _essential_ aspects with a pictures and immediately shows where they are _directly in game_.

[Tanker]

How do I discover what those icons mean using the in game help?  Do I hover the mouse over them?

[sandman2575]

In last patch its in ONE place - ingame help system - available at any time directly ingame and do not even have to look for anything in the readme. It describes all the _essential_ aspects with a pictures and immediately shows where they are _directly in game_.

Like probably everyone else, I disabled the Help tutorial back in 2010 and haven't turned it back on since.

I turned it back on.  It does point out some helpful things, but if you think it EXPLAINS everything about the new content you're kidding yourself.  It raises as many questions as it answers, as evidenced by all the questions that continue to pop up in this thread, even among those who know the game inside-out, like Dane49.

The Help tutorial is still nowhere near as useful as having a pdf or readme that clearly illustrates and explains things.

[wodin]

This aversion to some sort of manual..or at least some charts explaining the new comms system a etc etc is highly damaging to the game and quite frankly based on some odd perception that the in game help will explain everything to the player and no one needs it.

A game already considered since the first in the series as hard to understand from a newbie perspective, so the actual series has already a BAD name for this, is only getting more and more obtuse.

Just plain bewildering. Why can't Graviteam see the constant calls for documentation from their fans as something THAT is needed, let alone the detractors and their are many due to the newbie unfriendly aspect since APK43 wont have a chance of understanding it. The game is easy to understand from their  position cos they are coding the thing.

The whole thing is making so much harder to recommend the game to anyone, esp if they had difficulties with the first.


Some serious documentation and explanation of systems is required. Simple.

Also and I don't want this to sound wrong here but you really do need and native English speaking to do the manual and explanations aswell.

This game\sim now needs a deep indepth rulebook..I imagine at least hitting the 200 page mark..explaining in detail formations..comms...tactics..interface..weapon systems ..etc etc. It's become that indepth and the systems so unique serious explanation is required.

[Dane49]

200 pages of in depth explanation Are you kidding me!

I think some simple explantion of the buttons on the UI and what all the different colors mean in relation to the command and control aspects of the game would be appreciated.
Such as a few pictures of a game in play and some arrows pointing to and explaining what it is your seeing and why it's important.

As far as in depth weapon study and analysis specifications,no thanks I can research that on the internet if I'm interested in that.

This is a tactics game not a math equation were you get to know all the known quantaties and variables beforehand to come up with some kind of satisfying tactical result.

I don't play Combat Mission for just that reason.

As long as the AI isn't completely incompetent I'm willing to turn over most of the little features that a commander wouldn't have to deal with and focus purely on the tactical aspects.

The time it would take to read a 200 page manual,you could figure out the game in the same amount of time by playing it and experimenting and observing cause and effect.

Besides that considering how much this game has evolved over the last year,I would think at least 100 pages out of those 200 pages probably would be obsolete a year from now.

Who's going to spend the time constantly updating and editing the manual?You,Me or Andrey.
As I stated earlier a simple manual describing the UI buttons and their functions along with maybe a few pictures of the command and control set up with the different color meanings explained should be sufficient.

[budd]

Here's what the in game help has for the comm section. Hit the gear wheel and pick 720 so the text is easier to see. It starts in 360 and don't know how to get it to run only in 720.

[Flanker15]

Ok thanks for that, very helpful

By 'squad' - I assume you mean other platoons/units, since 'squad' would make no sense in the context of being only a few men.

Not sure actually, the help says squad.


Also the icon above units for info received by radio is a little white antenna not a (-) my mistake.

[wodin]

Dane no I'm not. Yes something smaller would suffice..but this is  game that would benefit from some in depth manual...something along the lines of HTTR manual or the old CMBB manual from back in the day.

Obviously you could explain the systems in far less with some examples and pics..but I think to do the game justice a big manual would really help..not only in learning the game but also sales.

If you like the status quo fair enough. Personally I'd like to see the game be given the documentation it deserves and not some 5 page manual.

I spent  a few years sticking up for APK43 from all the detractors about the UI..as far as I'm concerned they've made the situation a 100x times more difficult with the latest patch. I no longer feel I can recommend the game nor defend it as I did until something is done.

You don't need to read the whole manual Dane if you didn't want to..just scan the relevant chapters you want.

Actually I can't be bothered explaining..don't like your tone for starters. The game hasn't been designed just for you mate...lots of wargamers out there want indepth manuals..and if that wasn't possible at least a manual explaining in detail the UI\formations and when to use them and the comms system..I reckon that could be covered with screenshots in 20 pages or so. You want the game to survive and continue then it has to offer what a majority of wargamers want and the problem also here is this series already has a bad name so it needs to do something special to make up for it.

As for me and you doing the manual..thats ridiculous...erm developers do the manuals mate always have done they have to find time to do it and update which is easy to do these days if in PDF format, infact the amount of time they've put in doing the help system they could easily have done a decent manual and update the thing.


Oh and funny enough I don't see games as some equation that needs working out. I was actually talking about descriptions of the units and vehicles involved..some history of how they where used on the east front etc. Obviously this kind of thing isn't really needed.

Again I say a 200 page manual would be lovely and many wargamers would love it, however it's not necessary something including screenshots about 20 or 30 pages would easly suffice..thats expalining the UI, Formations and when to use them (think of the discusions we've ha don that for instnce) and finally the comms system. All written by a English speaker as it can be difficult trying to work out what ANdrey means at times..no offence meant.

Anyway my time on here is finished.

[Dane49]

Actually I can't be bothered explaining..don't like your tone for starters.

Well don't bother Wodin,it's pretty obvious this game no longer interests you and you have nothing constructive to offer with your constant denouncements of the game and "non reccomendations".

I've been reading your posts here for a year and its always the same underlying current"This game needs to be more like Combat Mission,with CM features and more micro management".It's getting old.

It seems Graviteam doesn't share your visions of CM lite along with a few others of us,and I think you've finally come to the same conclusion, that is you will never see a CM lite version of this game,so now all you post in this forum(and others) is how much you don't like the game.Why do you bother wasting your time here if other games give you more pleasure.

Your "non recommendations" mean nothing to me and I think anyone else who enjoys this game and appreciates what Graviteam is doing  would probably enjoy less of your negitive unconstructive feedback unless you have something to post other than 'I can no longer reccomend this game".

[chashka17]

There is a psychological need in wargamers for books I think.  I certainly collect any & everything. 
I printed out the CMSF manual when I got the game.
I did the same with the APK43 manual.
Now I wish I hadn't bothered, they got fleeting glances as I wanted to actually play the game more than I had time for extra reading.

I mentioned Civ5 on-line help in another thread & if this is the direction GT are taking then it would satisfy all the requirements for quick info & subsequent depth.  Reading Andreys' comments I assume it could be similar approach.

Checking out the Civ5 demo should give the idea of what I'm referring to, quick help tips & then levels of detail that can be subsequently accessed as desired from the quick help entry point.
The Civilopedia approach would make sense in this game.  It can be updated & it's modularity means there is room for additional depth as & when it can be created.

[budd]

Question: what does the polygon update provide? What wil we notice?