Graviteam

Been forever since I worked on this thing....LIFE got in the way.  But attempting to get my old SU-2 done and in the out bin.  As I finish this thing up lots of questions are popping up as I am not vary knowledgeable about this plane.  What I *think* I modeled was an SU-2 M88-B model.  One of the questions I have is about the time line of models.  Which was first and such.  AS you had the 2 main models with the M82 and M88 engines.  I do not even know which is the more powerful engine.  Or when the M88-B model was most used.  It appears mainly in the 1941-1942 time frame.  Of course all models of this plane was gone by 1943 or so it seems.  Not surprising, IL-2 or PE-2 where going to be way more effective ground attack platforms. 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%203%201%209.14_zpsw4jjd6yo.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%203%201%209.14_zpsw4jjd6yo.jpg.html)

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%204%201%209.14_zpskyjgyc6y.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%204%201%209.14_zpskyjgyc6y.jpg.html)

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/old%20su2%20redo%202_zps7q62cutp.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/old%20su2%20redo%202_zps7q62cutp.jpg.html)

The other BIG question I have is about how the fuselage of the M88-B was constructed.  I simply lack proper reference.  Some clearly a fabric over a wooden frame.  And this, over time and weather conditions would show threw the "skin".  That is, the fabric over the wood frame.  But other models of the SU-2 you do not see this happen at all.  Not sure if some models where simply fabric over frame or actually riveted sheets of aluminum or what.  From photos it looks like both happened.  What is "right" for an su2 M82-B.  If its fabric I want to stick in those details into the textures.  If its rivets, I want to do those.  But have no clue as of now.  Help on this would be great!   

Also, if anyone has photos of cracked up shot down SU2's that would help a ton as well.  Trying to figure out where common failure points to the air frame are.  Photos I have seen of brought down SU-2 that crash landed the plane is mangled but intact.  That does not help when trying to figure out when major damage was sustained.  Like fuel tanks blowing and taking wings off.  Or cannon fire blowing bits of plane apart.  A bit morbid this, but need to know where this plane would likely fail with massive damage. 

Hopefully someone spots this threat quick.  As I am nearly on final details to the fuselage.  If you spot anything really wrong let me know as well.   ;D

Hmm this thing might end up pretty neat.  Still a heck of a lot to do...

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%208%201%209.15_zpsxxx8vpqr.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%208%201%209.15_zpsxxx8vpqr.jpg.html)

With M-88B was introduced before the war. The first two serial planes with M-82 were built in september 1941, but manufacturing was slow. M-82 was more powerful. In april 1942 the production of Su-2 was finished. In the end of 1942 Su-2 were only in two bomber regiments, both in the Southern front (somewhere near Stalingrad), and the number of M-88B and M-82 was about equal there.

The other question I can't answer today.

Best,

AGA, I may do something in the middle for the fuselage detail.  That is, something that would work either way.  Probably no one will really look that close anyways.  But vary hard to figure out from old photos.  That is for sure.  

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%209%201%209.15_zpsafmwves5.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%209%201%209.15_zpsafmwves5.jpg.html)


Not having fun with the remaining details on the underside.  Not sure how I am going to handle the observation window crap on the belly.  Think my geometry is to low to make it look right as well as a bit off on the form.  Its way to late to fix it as that would mean throwing out hours of work on the normal maps.  POOP! Hope its passable.  

Ugh, just looks goofy to my eye. 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2010%201%209.15_zps17sypxbp.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2010%201%209.15_zps17sypxbp.jpg.html)

Looks wonderful to me, but I don't really understand anything in plane models  ;D

On the fuselage, I don't see anything about fabric. Veneer was over the wooden frame. And rivet parts look correct on you model, but I am not a specialist.

I've just started looking through russian web on this plane, found only this

(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-FAPLAP.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-FAPLAP.html)

(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-G5P4ZV.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-G5P4ZV.html)

(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-W1Q5W7.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-W1Q5W7.html)

On this page http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_p_988291.html#988291 there are photos of Su-2 plastic model which is assessed as one of the best by that community, which is quite experienced.

HMMM, that final picture, I have not seen that one before.  That could be vary useful.   ;D  


Ok so NOT fabric.  Although on some it certainly looks like it for tail and flaps.  Just so hard to find pics with good detail on fuselage for M88 types.  M82 it seems a few made it threw the war.  


Maybe that is actually the key I am looking for.  The fact I cant see any detail like panel or fatigue on war time planes there.  Perhaps the right thing to do is leave it be.   :-\  In fact the only time I have really seen details to this area are on illustrations of the plane, not actual photos from the war.  Makes sence I guess, if decades later someone goes off and does an illistation of a 40 year or older plane, ya it will show the summers and winters if its basically wood.  But only a year or 2 old, I guess it did not.   :D

Ya that is a nice model.  He even stuck in the bottom gun that was rarely fit.  I had no idea where that went!  Do not think I will put in my model either.  Real world added to much extra weight and would mean either more sluggish performance or reduced bomb load.  Well that is what i read at any rate. 

Well hopefully I get this bugger finished up soon   Its pretty close now.  Final details on the bottom, final defuse texture job, and LOD's really. 

Bottom gun is seemed to be more suitable for 1942 production with M-82. In general, in Russian sources there are Su-2 1941 with M-88 and 5 MG, and Su-2 1942 with M-82 and 6 MG.

That bottom MG might be vary cool the more I think about it.  

Have to look more into the historical side, but perhaps a recon version complete with the camera mount?  Or simply see what changes are needed for an M82 version.  That is apart from a different well, everything on the front of the plane.  If the rest of the plane is the same apart from the engine, might be something to do.  Then again, for game purposes it really does not matter that much unless thinking about a max load of bombs.  That is using both the bomb bay and the external racks.  While a bad idea if the SU2 has to evade fighters, does not matter much for ground pounding in a game.  I mean, its all correct to an extent.  Just what was the normally done.  


Maybe I will just make it with the max options in the mesh.  Game is able to hide areas via config.  Perhaps simply something random and let the dice roll to see what happens.  


Last thought.  So pretty much this plane fits in most from late 41 to summer 42.  For past operations of game, its pretty much Shilovo...   or hold on to it till it fits something in the future....

Should have done a PE-2....


If I do more planes in future I am damned well making sure it fits MIUS.  Or simply make some better looking replacements for the IL-2 and JU-87. 

Well, I am not sure that a recon plane is suitable for the game. They usualy fly high, 3 - 6 kilometers, while the game camera could be raised up to one or about. And their information went to an Army HQ or maybe to a Corps, but definitely not to a battalion or regiment HQ.


Pe-2 is a great idea, but they also fly high, the same 3 - 6 km usually.

I believe, there is a place for level bombers in the game setting, cause He-111, Ju-88, Pe-2 and A-20 were widely used on Mius, for example. But, in my opinion very small and simple models are enough for them, that from the ground there would be an impression that someone is flying above.

Well if I do another air craft that fw189 sure looks appealing.  Just such a funky plane. 

Aircraft play such a small role in this game. Why don't you concentrate on something that players want and can use on a regular basis!

I have....  But working from 1st to last on unfinished things.  And partly did this as most of the plane models have not changed since K43 times.  They look a bit, hmmmm retro.  

The other stuff in the cue....

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/m38a1%20in%20auto%20back%20up%20bin_zpsyvrmavqe.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/m38a1%20in%20auto%20back%20up%20bin_zpsyvrmavqe.jpg.html)

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/Flak%2018%20WIP%208_zpsfrnvl9ip.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/Flak%2018%20WIP%208_zpsfrnvl9ip.jpg.html)



In fact I am starting to think maybe seeking out good texture guys so where I could focus a bit more on models and less on textures and maybe take on things with a larger scope.  Something I am starting to consider.  But still waiting for MIUS.  That should end up a nice motivator.  And if life stops throwing wrenches at me. 

Think I got the bottom MG in right.  Maybe...well its sort of close anyhow.   :-X

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2012%201%209.15_zpsdf8qkfef.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2012%201%209.15_zpsdf8qkfef.jpg.html)

Just need to get the rest of the belly complete.   Then move on to the final textures already.  At any rate, I have dubbed this the polished turd.  Its decent low poly mesh, but really am putting way to much time into the normal maps.  Ahh well...


Ugh, still needs tweaks.  Looks off.  Why is this stupid thing being a pain? 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2012%20b%201%209.15_zpsrkbfebe6.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2012%20b%201%209.15_zpsrkbfebe6.jpg.html)

All the mesh bits are in but bombs and bomb racks.  Now to finish the normal map of the belly of the plane. 

The little turd is coming along....

Anyone have scale drawings of a FAB-250 or Fab-100? 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2013%201%209.15_zpssmkuq62j.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2013%201%209.15_zpssmkuq62j.jpg.html)

It seems, that FAB-250 was usually used againts targets in rear. Re FAB-100, although a lot of different types were used I can't find any high quality drawing of a proper one  :( Will try harder.

Generally speaking, SU-2, Il-2 and U-2 used AO-25, AO-10, AO-8 also very often and especially AO-2.5 (4 times more than FAB-100). Can't say the same about FAB-50 which is in the game...atleast in early 1942 and Mid 1943.

PS. The model is wonderful!

Yes the AO series.....  And the bomb rack I made....and lost before.  Will get tackled I think.  I know the FAB 250 is not what you would generally use at the sharp end.   More like blowing up a building, but looking for an optional random load out that fits with the bottom mg version.  Or what will be that version.  600kg load  which is perfect for fab 100 without bottom MG and extra gunner.  4 fab 100 in bomb bay and 2 under wings...  But version with bottom gun I am thinking a version with a stupid  big stick, the FAB 250.  Another possible for bottom MG version is RS82 rockets.   Both would be mounted on the under wing hard points.  Speaking of which, I  need get that bit into the normal maps as well as all the bomb rocket mounting crap.  Well the engine needs to get love too.  

FAB 50's I am not worrying about as there is a model in game.  Its just making the things work with model.  The AO series is vary interesting....  To bad the PTAB's where not in use yet when the SU2 was wide spread.  

I can not find any drawings or plans that are any good for bombs.  I find this vary odd.  I guess just getting the dimensions could work too.  At least photos are not to hard to find.  But more info on the AO series....which was most common and all that.  


I am sort of going all out with this polished turd.  Why not right?  

Still have not gotten to weathering yet...

 (http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2014%201%209.15_zps3omfultj.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2014%201%209.15_zps3omfultj.jpg.html)


1st attempt at getting the last of the engine area ok. 

Exterior normal maps are finally (I think!  :P) complete.  WOW talk about a lot of time....   Defuse textures should take about 1/10 the time.  

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2015%201%209.15_zpsqfjjqyrq.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2015%201%209.15_zpsqfjjqyrq.jpg.html)


Next up is making the boring cockpit area less boring.  


When and if this bugger gets into some gravi game, people better take billions of screen shots of this turd dropping poop and stuff.   ;)

Back to boring green for the muck it up job.  

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2016%201%209.15_zpsaqjdyodh.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2016%201%209.15_zpsaqjdyodh.jpg.html)

Now a question for AGA.  You would not happen to know the camo job of SU2 and which squadrons where around Kharvok area as well as Shilovo would you?  Now planning that green and black scheme of course.  But anything else (winter does not count).  As well as squadron markings would be nice.  Be stupid if I slap on markings from around Stalingrad for this thing.  


Crap, I modeled the belly gun all wrong.  Went off that plastic model.  Its WAY more basic.

http://wunderwafe.ru/WeaponBook/Avia/Su2/Pictures/12.jpg

Sorry, but I can't say anything about plane camo or squadron markings :(

I can say that in May 1942 6th Army (which was lost near Kharkov)...(ahh what a fate, RKKA lost its 6th in May 42, Wehrmacht in Feb 43. Before, RKKA lost its first 6th Army in August 1941 while Wehrmacht its second 6th in August 44)...the 6th Soviet Army had 13th guards regiment on Su-2. While the whole Front had also the 52nd and 135th regiments on Su-2. There were also 10th guards and 99th regiments, but I don't know their composition. It seems 10th guards and 99th had SB-2, AR-2 and Pe-2

In June there was a reform and the 8th Aviation Army was created with 270th bomber division which acted in the area of "Shilovo" and "Odincov" and in early July 1942 (Odincov and Shilovo time) it had 52nd, 135th regiments on SU-2 and separatly the 13th guards regiment on Su-2.

In May 42 there also were the 90th and 91st recon squadrons. 90th could have Su-2, BUT in late June 1942 it had only 3 Pe-2 and 1 Pe-3. While 91st in late June 1942 had 3 Su-2 and 2 Pe-2 and 1 DB-3. Unfortunately, it seems all planes of 91st were under repair.

Still nothing on bombs  :(

Hmmm.  Well thanks.  it is a starting  point.  Worse case just do something passable for all I guess.  Maybe I dig up something on markings and camo.  But not hopeful.   Still a place to start looking about.  

Ya, weird on the bombs.  I can not find ANYTHING useful.  Even dimensions!   :'(  Might just eyeball it and be done with it.  

Then again....

(http://www.impdb.org/images/e/eb/WofRussia07_Sukhoi_Su-2b.jpg)

Certainly NO standards there.  



Great.   I think I have the wrong cowling on my model.  Looks more like off a BB-1 or M82 not a M88b.  Better fix that.


Really?  Now i find interesting drawings...

 (http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/su2/su2-2.gif)

OK... I see where I fouled up on the cowling.  I made an M88 and NOT an m88b.  Interesting.  

Might end up with a couple different models as right now neither is correct.  Its a mishmash su2.  Damnit! Well, right in the middle of both. Might as well DO both.  

Note that top pick of the 3 SU2's.  The 2 in front are M88b's.  The one in back is the M88.  


More than I ever wanted to know about SU-2's I have learned.   :P

So to make an SU2 M88 with the current model it looks like I need to add that weird looking thing under the engine.  While the M88B needs the cowling changed.  As far as I can tell that is only difference.  

Ok...well then.  I guess i do the M88B 1st and if still sane plop out the M88 model.  Wish someone had caught that.  Why I make post like this.  boohoo.   :'(  Well it keeps me motivated too i guess.  Wonder what else I fouled up...

Why am I noticing this crap NOW.   :'(  So radio mast is only on M88 model?  Missing in M88B?  Maybe also do the half size rear hump on the M88B.  Like in photo.  I know these came in 2 sizes and some like that SU-2 M88 in back have it totally removed.  Boy I stepped into this late.  How did I not notice this!   UGH

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/SU-2%20M88b%20_zpsq8rv1hwb.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/SU-2%20M88b%20_zpsq8rv1hwb.jpg.html)


Still mucking around for the right M88B cowling.  Shockingly, despite stretching the mesh and its UVW mapping for the textures, well you cant tell its stretched.  YAy.  Less work.  

Wip now su2 m88 top.  Wip now su M88B bottom.  Oh what fun.

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20wip%20m88%20m88b_zpsyfjcmfan.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20wip%20m88%20m88b_zpsyfjcmfan.jpg.html)

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/SU-2%20M88b%202_zpsxjpgnpgn.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/SU-2%20M88b%202_zpsxjpgnpgn.jpg.html)

Ok, think I got it right.  Just need to tweak a couple things. 

IF I manage to clear out the old stuff and if Mius does not have something like it in it...  I think I might make this next.

(http://www.euromodeltrains.com/trains/products/Walthers1/729/87084.gif)

On Bombs. The thing that every type had tens of different variations  ;D ;D

I'll start with the smallest fragmentation and try to cover every Frag and HE up to 250KG in a few days.

1) AO-2.5sch Is thought to be the most numerous soviet bomb. Generally speaking these are defective 45mm artillery and 82mm mortar shells.

On photos usually present this one
(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-ENFQ9F.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-ENFQ9F.html)
(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-J91S1W.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-J91S1W.html)

BUT! It was not in production since 1940.

For the war the most correct are number 1 or number 3.
(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-A7Z4W4.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-A7Z4W4.html)


And the correct painting for all AO bombs (fragmentation) is:
(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-597DMN.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-597DMN.html)

So exactly how do you know a shell is defective?   :P Its fired once and well.... now we throw it off a plane?  I am guessing these came off of dud rounds that failed to fire?  Pull the shell, give it fins and throw off an air plane?


Also if you spot any of these things on a bomb rack that would help.  I am inclined to one of the 45mm sorts. Perhaps it can be set up to where the plane drops them  8-10 at time so you do not get a huge performance drop.  42 of these going off at once would be bad.


And last thought.  I think since now I am doing both su2 m88 and m88B.  I think the m88 will not have the belly gun while the m88b will.  Go with that for now.    

No, in production always there are some shells with flaws. These shells can not be shot, so they are converted into bombs. 45mm and mortar shells can be converted only in little fragmintation bombs. The same used Germans with captured french mortar shells and theit 50mm, called them SD-1.


About 60 per a container with about 4 containers per a plane  ;D 

In the game it was already tested two years ago by me. No issues with performance. There are some problems with bombs accuracy and deviation, but they are the same for current ingame bombs  :( Developers don't want to notice it  :(

(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-R66TRG.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-R66TRG.html)
(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-VY04SX.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-VY04SX.html)
(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-IAV6YQ.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-IAV6YQ.html)
(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-USNZXQ.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-USNZXQ.html)
(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-PWBHCS.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-PWBHCS.html)
(http://s01.geekpic.net/dt-U37JKD.jpeg) (http://geekpic.net/pm-U37JKD.html)

I've tested 96 and 128, all was fine, except the blast...here the developers assistence is needed. I think that this problem will be fixed in Mius when PTABs will be adopted, but it seems they don't want to hear anything about PTABs or any cluster ammunition which was the main source against forward troops :(

Looks like I am not the only one to get SU-2 types confussed.  

This I think is box art, should be an su-2 M88.  But has 2 things wrong.  The engine exhaust nozzle is on wrong side for su2 m88.  Its on this side for M88b and M82.  And has 2 wing lights instead of just 1 like it should.  Look at me go...  And....I finished the M88B redo mesh and now working on the M88.  Will anyone be able to even notice the differences?  Does it even matter?   :P



(http://www.icm.com.ua/new/uploads/posts/2009-11/1259067902_image_36.jpg)

 

Well that was surprisingly awful...

But now have the mesh and unwrapping done for both.  Just need to update base textures...again.  

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20wip%20m88%20m88b%202_zpsuhasv48c.jpg)

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2017%201%209.15_zpsr7tcwuel.jpg)

Just making sure I did not screw anything up to bad.  Looks kind of neat.   ;D

(http://wunderwafe.ru/WeaponBook/Avia/Su2/Pictures/41.jpg)

AO series of bombs?

Which brings up another point.  The game does not support opening bomb bay doors.   :'(  So its either going to be bombs just fall threw the mesh, or the doors will have to be open all the time.   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


Been looking like crazy but can not find how the heck the AO 2.5 is attached to the air craft.  I see no way for this thing to attach to something like a KD-2 bomb rack.  So how the hell?  If I can not find any pics I think its going to have to be a lot of FAB-50's.

Little update blurb....  Although who knows when this thing gets in game.  My plan is just complete the LOD 1 and textures and plow right into finishing the M38a1 jeep as there is a DLC for SABOW around the corner.  Not sure how I want to handle the in game model.  Wait for MIUS or what.  As well as maybe do something a bit more extensive and release in one blob.  The last makes sense to me and something I have kicked around my head for some time.  Like, make 2 planes and 2 aaa guns and release in mass with some sort of campaign or some such.  That might be a while...  Or at least 1 su2 and maybe a flak 30/38.   

At any rate.  Been nit picking things, reworking areas, and well going bonkers over details.  The results are that for the effort its like 1 percent better and no one will probably be able to tell.   :-\  So 1 more thing to add to normal map and calling it done for that.  Also issues with the M88b model that I am not happy with so M88 model is what I am giving effort too.  Likely go back at a later time and correct those issues.  It will share same texture sheet between planes. Just enough room for the extra m88b bits and  1 or 2 bomb racks.  Logical for an RTS sort of game.  


But if ANYONE has a picture of how the AO series of bombs was mounted on this thing or any other similar plane (IL-2) please post it!   i found dimensions of AO 2.5 off a UXO web sight so if I can find stupid pic of how its mounted to plane then we are in business on that one.  


  

Well... another wip shot.  Ya, its not going to get much better as far as normal maps go.  Moving on to final defuse textures.  

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2018%201%209.15_zpshhtqfbgx.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2018%201%209.15_zpshhtqfbgx.jpg.html)

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2019%201%209.15_zpsvrh5jjgc.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2019%201%209.15_zpsvrh5jjgc.jpg.html)

How about an su-2 and this thing?  

(http://www.achtungpanzer.com/votw/sdkfz10_4.jpg)

Which also means one of these things...

(http://www.wehrmacht-history.com/images/heer/anti-aircraft-artillery/2-cm-flak-38-1.jpg)


Wish the game did more with tactical air.  Like being able to attack supply depots via air out side of units bumping into one another.  Well, I can dream.   Or a working armored train sort of crazy.  More dreams...  Or supply dumps actually looking like supply dumps. 

Well its something on the AO bomb issue. 

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/Posted%20in%20forums/I-15bis_Podveska_bomb.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/klesnikov/media/Posted%20in%20forums/I-15bis_Podveska_bomb.jpg.html)

AO-25  Knowing that its 122mm and has how it attaches makes this doable.  Needs a KD-1 bomb rack for SU2.  In fact I seem to have found how every AO series goes except the AO-2.5.  But have found a few pictures of 2 connected via the tail sections.  I think they are AO 2.5 but not certain.  Which makes sense.  As its a 45mm shell its prett small.  Mounting 2 together and then mounting to a bomb rack I can see working.   As it falls I would think air friction should get them to separate.  But this is all guess work.  AO-8 maybe what I do to for these little guys.  Well AO 25 as well.  Its nice that can simply use the config for their artillery fired shell counter parts.  And 42 AO-8's is still a lot of little bombs.

And now the DLC for SABOW is released.  Crap, was hoping to have that cute little jeep done around same time.   :'(  I wanna hunt tanks with a suicidal clown car mounting a 106mm recoiless rifle damnit!. 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2020%201%209.15_zpsjgsx6pkz.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2020%201%209.15_zpsjgsx6pkz.jpg.html)

The end is near...finally.  Now with awful stars.  Those will not be staying.  I can FINALLY weather up the freaking model.  So many SURPRISE! issues popped up. 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2021%201%209.15_zps8abvy9oo.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2021%201%209.15_zps8abvy9oo.jpg.html)

Well currently sick of texture work so doing the bomb racks and what is suppose to be an AO 25.  AS you can see its a little BIG.  Currently max is being retarded and saying the width of the shell is 122mm.  HMMM no.   :P  And a prototype low poly boring KD-1 bomb rack.  Its basic and weird.  Still vary wip as I have no scale drawing and based off 1 photo.  All I have =(.  


http://wunderwafe.ru/WeaponBook/Avia/Su2/Pictures/19.jpg


Looks like the width is scaled correct.  however, the length is certainly wrong.  Drawing i used must have been stretched or something odd.  The length is about a half meter longer than the bomb bay.  And this is much smaller than a FAB 100, 4 of which fit into the bomb bay.   UGH.   As all  measurements are pretty much correct and conform to the drawings of the plane.  I am currently scratching my head.  8 of these things are suppose to fit into the bomb bay.  Quite perplexed.  

This is really weird.  So unless the wingspan is something bigger than 14.3 meters i dont see how the heck any of the large bombs fit in the bomb bay.  The info i found on FAB 100 is that it has a diameter of 240mm.  Its to fat to fit 2 in the bomb bay at that.  It is possible the plans I used are off.  Or that the dimensions on either the plane or the bombs is off.  I am really going crazy here.  usually everything fits as I do my homework and is to at least close roughly to scale.

Still attempting to figure the bomb issues. 

Have to guess about right size of KD-1 rack do to having 1 photo only.  But modeled out the 82mm version of ao 2.5 as a scale referance.  i think kd1 rack might be a tad small.  But hell if I know for sure.  What I do know (if its right) is that 3 kd-1 racks with 30 ao 2.5 is suppose to fit into the bomb bay. 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2022%201%209.15_zpsczy77go0.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2022%201%209.15_zpsczy77go0.jpg.html)

Been somewhat successful hunting down bomb info.  Taken a fair amount of time but not vary exciting screens.

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2023%201%209.15_zps5brokxe4.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2023%201%209.15_zps5brokxe4.jpg.html)

A few ao 2.5 45mm types and alot of the converted defective 82mm mortar bomb types. 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/wip%20su2%20bombs_zpskt91dhbe.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/wip%20su2%20bombs_zpskt91dhbe.jpg.html)


Various bombs awaiting me to texture and complete the buggers...

Top to bottom..

Fab 50
fab 100
ao 25    (122mm converted shell)
the bottom 2 the smaller ao 2.5  45mm and 82 sorts. 

That is likely enough and the best info I found.  Although I did find data for 152mm shell converted to a bomb. 


Still need to make the KD-2 bomb rack and texture the KD-1.  It looks boring as hell. 

We should probably have a World of Warplanes thread. LOL!
Looks good though Flashburn.

You want more feed back start working on things we want to play with and can play with. You cant get a camera view from airplanes in this game!
Work on a Panther or T-34/85 tank, or finish the 88mm German AT/AA gun!!

Being different..... Just makes you different.
Help graviteam push a little further into late 1943 or current 2014-5!

The Ukraine was one of the most fought over regions of WW2(41-44), and is a warzone today also.The Mius area saw a current battle and alot of the current models in this game saw combat there. Only things missing are current infantry and tank models.

I use the Cubans from Hooper and the modern Soviets to simulate current battles in the Ukraine, but I wish it looked more realistic.
You should concentrate in this area if you want to piggyback off of Graviteam.

I choose to finish this thing as it has been sitting for years.  Right now I have the time and motivation.  But do not expect much in the way of tanks from me anytime soon.  If nothing changes with current situation I will most likely focus in on flak guns and vehicles that pull guns.  Since MIUS can actually have towed guns and so many did end up as actual armed vehicles as well.  2 on my mind are SDKFZ 10 and 8. SDKFZ 8 for the 88mm if I do decide to model out the trailer for it.  The sdkfz 10 was used to pull guns as well as mounting flak 30/38, pak 36 and I think up to 50mm at gun. 

I still want to see more done with tactical air in a GTOS style game.  Setting up flak traps might really add another element. 

If I still have any motivation, lend lease armor.  Still no M3 lee\grant death traps in game, as well as others.  But all that is months of full time work.  And I am no longer making half arsed test vehicles for game engine.  I am after much higher quality.  Hopefully as I go along I figure out faster methods for getting the detail I am after.  This SU2 has taken WAY longer than it should have.  Mainly as i am out of practice at rapid model/texture creation.  Thanks life....

But the SU2 is vary close to complete.  As is the M38a1 jeep.  The Flak 18 has quite a bit of work.  Depending on if I do go with the trailer.  Right now I am vary inclined too.  Although with trailer the model will most likely be shy of 30,000 triangles.  But then again, I do not think there would ever be more than a few any where near each other so should not matter with good LOD's.  But that is more than most tanks in game....

And i most likely will do some sort of German plane.  Given enough time and motivation i would freaking make totally new JU87 and IL2.  But don't worry, I will not unless for a real good reason.  I still really like that FW189 owl.  It such a funky plane that was used all over the eastern front.  If only it could call in arty strikes from the air like the real deal... Then again, so could an Su 2 in the observation role. There was a reason they gave it a good radio set.   

I'm sorry Flashburn, if I sounded critical!
You do very much for this game and I for one appreciate your efforts.

I love this game and sometimes wish Graviteam could expand more into other areas.
I was looking forward to some of the other projects that they were considering and am still a little upset that they haven't released Mius Front 43 yet.

This is the only game I enjoy, and sometimes forget how much effort goes into making this kind of game!

Mius is sort of what I am aiming at...   Love to have some idea of what decade it will be done.   :P  I have played the snot out of GTOS and not that interested in bringing in new models for the old girl honestly.  The jeep probably yes.  I have test rigs all ready in GTOS and SABOW.  

What I REALLY want to see ( in addition to Mius) is Mius map and assets with a tank vehicle sim.  Well I want it all.  So hmmm ya.  

Mius in 41/42 would be interesting as well....

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2024%201%209.15_zpsla2txqcd.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2024%201%209.15_zpsla2txqcd.jpg.html)


Ok, KD-1 and Kd-2 bomb racks modeled.  And a selection of bombs.  Woot.  Do not think Ill use the external bomb racks as it appears they rarely fit them.  Even if weight if a light bomb load where not an issue, the drag these things produced slowed the plane down even more.  Although maybe the KD-1 with itty bitty bombs.  Maybe 4 fab 100's and 12 ao2.5 or something.  well at any rate, there are options there. 

I know I want to do 1 bomb load with 8 ao25's in the bomb bay.  And one with lots of AO 2.5.  1 has to be 4 FAB 100's.  And then maybe something weird.  Most planes are set up with 4 random load outs.  Just usually there is not enough various sorts of bombs so they duplicate over.  Not this time.  :P

Now to get the bomb racks into the planes texture sheet and the bombs into their own. 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2025%201%209.15_zpsjzvhfqwp.jpg)

Was thinking about adding in more detail to the cockpit.  Ya NO.  After checking triangle count with a full load of ao 2.5 bombs forget it.  Will end up over 20k that way.   With about 8000 of that being bombs.  Base plane, not counting bomb racks, bombs, or the glass parts is just a hair over 10k.  Or slightly less than the MI 24 model.  Or half what some of the tanks in game are.   But need to go back and drop trianlges off the AO 82mm bomb.  To high poly count.  8000 triangle for nothing but 42 of those things is way to much.  The 45mm sort is ok however.  So for the 42 load out of ao 2.5 its going to be those.  Everyone say thank you to FB_aga.  Its all his fault. 

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/uber_flash_pants/su2%20test%2027%201%209.15_zps2okzoo0e.jpg) (http://s120.photobucket.com/user/uber_flash_pants/media/su2%20test%2027%201%209.15_zps2okzoo0e.jpg.html)

A part from the bombs, FINALLY on roughing up the planes textures.  Took me way longer than I ever thought. 

What happened to FB-AGA?  My AO bomb buddy has gone missing.