Vehicles constantly bunch up at destination

[sandman2575]

As thread says -- whenever I send vehicles in a platoon somewhere -- say, in a column on roads *with maximum spacing* -- they do fine and maintain formation *until* they get to the destination, at which point they all run into eachother, as though they all need to get to the exact same point, rather than maintain their spacing.

Is there a way to prevent this, beyond micro-managing each individual vehicle in the column? 

This is particularly frustrating when you have several platoons to manage on a town / urban map.  It's nearly impossible to micro-manage several platoon's worth of vehicles.  It would be a lifesaver if you could just give you vehicles a 'move along roads' order *and have them maintain proper spacing when they get to their destination* --

[Dane49]

What I do is right before they reach their destination,I give them the defend order.This works most of the time,but sometimes they ignore the order,and I have to play traffic MP and micro-manage them.

Bridges are especially hard to manage.I give the defend order just before reaching bridges,and then send the vehicles across one at a time.

Makes me wonder sometimes,is this an intentional game feature or just an oversight.

Maybe introducing into the game an order command for convoy would help in making this a less frustrating and time consuming process.And once they reach their destination,they automatically take up a 360 degree defensive perimeter.Or,at least some kind of perimeter to keep them from bunching up.

Infantry do this also,I find them all huddled together when they reach their destination after the road movement command has been given.That's why I seldom issue that order to them.I've never noticed them to move any faster on roads than cross country so I stopped using road movement for them.I just pick a spot I want them to go on the map and issue any other command but road movement.

One command I issue quite often to my infantry when moving them is the defend command.When they move out they keep a pretty good spread and move tactically,when they encounter the enemy they fire and maneuver(leap frogging)or will at least take some form of cover and defend properly if under heavy fire,and once they reach their destination they take up a defensive perimeter.

[sandman2575]

thanks dane -- interesting points.  i will try issuing the defend command for the columns before destination -- still kind of a headache to have to keep tabs on multiple platoons in this respect.  but the bunching up is really starting to drive me crazy. 

in general i think the pathfinding in AP is good, and the ability to force your units to use the roads is terrific.  But the bunching up really needs to be addressed. 

[andrey12345]

Please, use March order - is a road movement (through bridges too)+automatically defend at end point 

[sandman2575]

Thanks Andrey -- that's a great tip.

I think because I played AP Kharkov 1943 so much, I tend not to use the 'spacebar' order options in Op. Star, preferring to use the old system of issuing orders.  To be honest, I"m not really sure what some of these commands do -- "Recon" and "Assault," etc. etc.  I guess I have to start experimenting with them.  But good to know that March order should take care of the bunching up problem.

[Dane49]

I purchased APK43 first from Amazon and only played it a few times before Op.Star came out,so I never got a chance to really learn APK43,but I liked what I saw and immediately bought the Op.Star game,since the new UI in APOS looked like it was easier to use than APK43.

I've experimented with all sorts of movement orders during my many quick battles over the last 7 months and found that issuing the defend command to my units whether I want them to defend in place or move to and attack another point on the map seems to cover almost everything from hunt,recon,assault,march and also defend.Plus,they move more realistically and relaxed,and not clunky or jerky like some of the other commands.It's more immersively appealing IMHO.

I have no idea as to the pros and cons of each different command(never seen it documented anywhere)For example-The recon command:Does it make your unit less easier to spot?Can you spot enemy units easier,etc...?

Without knowing the true benefits and draw backs of each and every individual command,I just find it easier to go with the defend command as an expedient command that covers most situations.It seems to work well in the game and gets the job done.

Vehicles on the other hand are more difficult to work with and require much more micro-management.I tend to not use them in large quantities in most of my quick battles,and stick mainly to infantry heavy battles.

[Tanker]

I agree that an authoritative account of what the various space bar commands would be good. 

[Lemonade]

Same here. I never use space bar quick commands simply because I'm unsure of what they are. A thorough explanation of each command would be very welcome.

[lavish]

"Spacebar commands" or commands by selecting an unit and right-clicking destination (the latter since the May patch) are predefined movement / modifier settings (see the manual). No magic there. 

[Dane49]

I think what we would like,is more defined and detailed analysis as to what was actually programed into each of these commands,and the advantages and disadvantages of each different command.The manuals' definition is vague at best and open to a variety of differing interpretations that may or may not be the actual intent of the programer concerning these command options.

For example:Recon
  Advantage-Units use cover and concealment while approaching area of interest,stopping frequently to scan terrain at longer distances with binoculars while maintaing noise and light discipline.Result-Enemy units easier to spot,while friendly unit is harder to spot.

  Disadvantage-Unit moves at slower pace stopping frequently,in effect taking longer to approach area of interest.Unit will only return fire when fired upon or spotted by enemy unit.

Not looking for magic,just a better understanding as to the programmers actual intent for the command options available to the player,so as to make a more informed decision when issuing commands.As it stands now,it seems units I issue recon orders to are mostly just bait I dangle in front of the enemy to try and make him reveal his position by shooting at the recon unit.I would like to think there is more to it than that.

[sandman2575]

"Spacebar commands" or commands by selecting an unit and right-clicking destination (the latter since the May patch) are predefined movement / modifier settings (see the manual). No magic there. 

True, but it does appear from Andrey's comments that the spacebar commands do more than just 'preselect' different parameters -- for example, the fact that the "March" order has a "Defend at destination" parameter.  So it looks like some of the spacebar commands are "Combination" orders, combining a few different commands in sequence.  As other say, it would be great to get a more detailed account of what each of these commands specifically does.

[lavish]

Still no magic there guys. 

According to manual it's called Quick Order Panel and it does exactly what I described: predefined movement settings or command combinations.

March: a basic command like Move, Assault or Defend. Units move to a target location in a formation and take defensive positions towards spesified direction.

Defend: Units move without formation to a target location and take defensive positions towards spesified direction. March with formation setting no formation is equal to defend.

As far as I think...

[Dane49]

Wow! I guess then all we need is 3 commands and 2 modifiers.And cut out all the other non sense commands.

3 commands-Move,attack and defend.
2 modifiers-with/without formation.

How simple,I thought with all the other command options more was built into the system.I had hoped there was more to it than that.

[sandman2575]

I guess I didn't pay enough attention to the "Tactics" guide, page 38 explains the Quick Orders -- am trying to post it here but having trouble -- anyway, page 38 -

May be worth printing up and having by your side as you play to get used to what the (often subtle) differences are --

[Dane49]

That only tells you what modifiers you can use in conjunction with your initial movement command,and what kind of formation you can expect your troops will take when issued those series of commands.

What I'm interested in is-How does for example, the hunt or march command differ from the recon command?Do these different commands offer any extra advantages or disadvantages when performing a recon mission other than the type of formation it will assume?Does the recon command give your unit a better spotting capability over a unit that isn't using the recon command?Or does it really matter what type of movement command I give a unit when performing a recon mission since the recon command only effects the type of formation my unit will assume when approaching the area of interest.

What is he difference between defend and ambush?Both commands do basically the same thing.

The tactics manual is more of a how to manual and very vague as to actual benefits or disadvantages of the different tactical command options at the players disposal, and how they effect the unit and interact with enemy units who may be under a different set of commands on the battlefield.

I'm interested in knowing if certain commands will give your units certain tactical edges during different situations.

For example:If both friendly and enemy units are performing an attack mission,but the enemy unit is under the assault command and the friendly unit is under the hunt command,does the unit using the assualt command derive any particular tactical advantage or disadvantage over the hunt command unit.

What exactly distinguishes these two differing commands apart from each other when performing the same attack mission,other than the formation they may use while performing said same attack mission.

[Tanker]

The Assualt command should have the tanks/troops more concentrated and in 2-3 lines.  In theory I would think that would give more punch to get through a thin, one line, low concentration Hunt formation.  But with the smallish maps and good visibility in most battles, I think the Hunt line would be able to get flank shots on the more concentrated Assualt formation.  This would sort of negate the intended purpose.

[Dane49]

I'm still back to my initial question.Are these commands(Hunt,recon,assaualt,attack and defend) nothing more than simple formation movement orders,or do they also have other special qualities programed into their characteristics that set them apart from each.

If they are nothing more than simple formation movement orders,then that's fine I can live with that,and will apply the tactics I use in the game accordingly.

But if other characteristics were programed into these commands,I would like an answer as to what these are.

I would think if they were just simple formation orders then it would be easier to just show buttons that depict what kind of formation the unit will assume after you press it,instead of writing Hunt,recon assault etc...Which in my opinnion adds more confusion depending on how you interpret what these commands will actually do or accomplish.

[lavish]

Again, no magic! 

The game doesn't have many "magical values" if compared to more statistical based wargames. This game is more physics based, i.e. more in the direction "seeing is believing".

See the tactics manual, p. 35-40. Only movement modifiers "move fast" and "hidden/stealth move" have some effect on unit speed and resulting volume of fire.

"Move stealthily": units move as stealthily as possible taking low places and bushes, crawling and without much fire.

"Move fast": soldiers move as fast as possible without much fire. If it's dark, vehicles turn on the lights. If you turn on
this modifier together with "Move stealthily" modifier, the soldiers move with the maximum speed and don't lay down not
till they see an enemy.

[sandman2575]

Quick Commands aside -- issuing "March" doesn't eliminate the bunching up problem, at least not on roads hemmed in by narrow spaces, in villages or in forests.  Especially in forests, where as the German player you really need to be able to give your vehicles commands to remain on the roads -- this bunching up, even with March order, is really really frustrating --

[Dane49]

Again,not looking for magic!

Looking for information that distinguishes the different commands apart from each other that may add or detract from a units performance when performing certain missions.

Units in this game have certain modifiers that may or may not give them advantages over their opponent.Such as, is the unit veteran or recruit,does it have high or low morale.

These so called magical statistics determine  whether or not the outcome during a combat encounter will give your unit favorable or unfavorable odds.

My question yet again is,do certain commands give your units +/- modifiers when encountering units under a different set of orders during combat,are any special modifiers factored into or programed into each different command that would give these different commands unique qualities or disadvatages.As an example I used earlier I was curious as to whether or not a unit under the recon command has any special spotting abilities over a unit that is not under the recon command,that is would the recon unit be able to spot the non reconning unit 1st or at greater distances,is there a modifier programed into the order to reflect this.