Infantry anti-tank weapons?

[Tanker]

I had infantry squads dug in and hiding in houses in a village.  Enemy tanks came in alone and move up and down the streets like they owned the place.  I saw that the squads had 4.5cm heat weapons. (not clear if these were panzer fausts) but I never saw them trying to attack a tank, even when a tank came right up next to an occupied house.  Does infantry attack armor with organic anti-tank weapons, grenades or mines in the game?

[Dane49]

No panzer fausts at this time.Panzerfausts didn't start to appear on the Russian front till about August of 1943.If you give your troops the ambush or hunt  command they should attack the tanks with the AT weapons they may possess such as AT mines,stick grenade bundles,AT rifle grenades or molotov cocktails.Engineers(Pioneers) also possess demo packs for use against tanks.The morale and leadership of the troops also determines whether or not  they will assault the tanks.I find that Russian infantry squads in this game  seem to have better AT capability than German squads and are more willing to attack armored vehicles than the German squads are.

[Tanker]

It was the German infantry I was using.  I'll pay attention from now on to see if I can see them attacking a tank.  I was not sure of the date of the introduction of the panzerfaust.  Damn ballsy thing to do to take on one of those monsters close up.

[Dane49]

In one game I ordered a platoon of German infantry to assault a Russian immobilised T-34 in an open field.My Nazi storm troopers did nothing and would not assault the tank and would only take up defensive positions around the T-34.The T-34 would unbutton every so often to aquire a new target and then commence to gunning down members of my cowardly platoon(it went on like this for 10 minutes).I almost rage quit!!I got so frustrated that I decided as punishment for failing to do thier duty as soldiers of the Reich that I was going to target the T-34 with an artillery barrage and then leave the assaulting platoon in place as the artillery shells fell on and around the T-34 .The artillery barrage finally knocked out the T-34 in addition to metting out field disciplinary justice to my highly "unmotivated" assaulting platoon by decimating the remaining members of that cowardly platoon

[GBS]

Thats showing 'em>

[randall.flagg]

Just another day on the Ost front.

[Tanker]

I don't think you can target individual vehicle or units for assault.  I think the command only targets a spot on the map.  It seem counterintuitive.  I think the infantry model is a little inadequate in this respect.  Soldiers would definitly stalk an unescorted tank with whatever weapons they had available.  A built up area should be dangerous for a tank without infantry support to venture into.

[USMC_GRUNT]

I can never get German infantry to attack tanks.
I have also had them sneak up on tank and surround it
in defensive 360. I just try hide my infantry from tanks.
Always try to keep AT guns next to German infantry so they
will also be in battle.

The fanatic Ruskies have no fear of tanks,they make great use of
Molotovs.

[Tac Error]

Yeah, it's always a bad day when German infantry have to face tanks without any dedicated AT weapons.

[Tanker]

Hmm.  Something for Graviteam to work on.  Didn't they ever see "Where the Iron Crosses Grow"?

[Lemonade]

In one game I ordered a platoon of German infantry to assault a Russian immobilised T-34 in an open field.My Nazi storm troopers did nothing and would not assault the tank and would only take up defensive positions around the T-34.The T-34 would unbutton every so often to aquire a new target and then commence to gunning down members of my cowardly platoon(it went on like this for 10 minutes).I almost rage quit!!

Dane, have you checked the AT ammo status of your platoon or the "Hold Fire" icon? These are the most common reasons for infantry not to attack the tank. I found it with own skin as I tend to forget about both from time to time, heh heh.

I don't think you can target individual vehicle or units for assault.  I think the command only targets a spot on the map.  It seem counterintuitive.  I think the infantry model is a little inadequate in this respect.  Soldiers would definitly stalk an unescorted tank with whatever weapons they had available.  A built up area should be dangerous for a tank without infantry support to venture into.

I, on the other hand, find the command system very intuitive. It just feels right to me and I never had any problems with targeting a specific vehicle. Just use the prioritize target button and it'll do. In my games the infantry always assaults the AFV if it has some AT means of destruction.

What I don't like though, are tanks picking off dug-in soldiers with ease. And I'm not talking about tanks sitting in enfilade positions towards the trenches. Soldiers are just too eager to stick their head over the trench while over heavy tank fire.

[Tanker]

I agree with that last point.  Tanks seem to find infantry too easily in buildings and houses as well as trenches and foxholes.  I really don't understand how to use the prioritize command.

I find the following listed as weapons in the all the German infantry squads:

(HEAT) 3cm gr.G.PzGr

Mines and Grenades:
(Heat)HH-3

Does anyone know specifically what these are?  I assume they are anti-tank by the name.  What I meant by counter intuitive is that, if these are anti tank weapons and the infantry squads are armed with them, they should attack tanks without specific command by the player.  Especially if the tank is right next to them and the only target is the tank.  They don't seem to do this.  Do you have to specifically use the prioritze command to have them do so?

[Dane49]

I'm pretty sure the mines are AT in nature as well as the HEAT(High Explosive Anti Tank) grenades.With the Germans I've tried to forbid fire to infantry and prioritize the target(tank)but my German storm troopers still balk at the idea,yet the Russian squads see a vehicle.Hell it doesn't even have to be a vehicle and the molotovs are flying around like fireworks on the 4th of July.

[Dane49]

Dane, have you checked the AT ammo status of your platoon or the "Hold Fire" icon? These are the most common reasons for infantry not to attack the tank. I found it with own skin as I tend to forget about both from time to time, heh heh.

This happens in quick battles also,where my troops should have all their AT weapons still unused before encountering their first armored target,and I very rarely issue the hold fire command.Generally I keep a squad or platoon in reserve to hunt down any vehicles that breach the main line,sometimes I issue "them" the forbid fire to infantry command until I've dealt with the tank threat first.

[andrey12345]

I'm pretty sure the mines are AT in nature as well as the HEAT(High Explosive Anti Tank) grenades.With the Germans I've tried to forbid fire to infantry and prioritize the target(tank)but my German storm troopers still balk at the idea,yet the Russian squads see a vehicle.Hell it doesn't even have to be a vehicle and the molotovs are flying around like fireworks on the 4th of July.

"Molotov cocktails" (this is actually a KS bottles not a Molotovs) were put quite a number, but cumulative mines is present in very small amounts. And the mine had big weight, to throw it away is very difficult. Therefore difficult to apply.

[Tanker]

Andrey, what about these;
(HEAT) 3cm gr.G.PzGr

Are they anti tank grenades and can the German soldiers attack tanks with those?  It's my impression (possibly incorrect) that German infantry in this game are woefully weak in dealing with tanks by themselves.  Perhaps it is an accurate portrayal.  On the other hand, if the Russians can rain down KS bottles shouldn't the Germans be able to do the same with their AT grenades?

[andrey12345]

Andrey, what about these;
(HEAT) 3cm gr.G.PzGr

Shell for Gnb.39

Are they anti tank grenades and can the German soldiers attack tanks with those?  It's my impression (possibly incorrect) that German infantry in this game are woefully weak in dealing with tanks by themselves.  Perhaps it is an accurate portrayal.  On the other hand, if the Russians can rain down KS bottles shouldn't the Germans be able to do the same with their AT grenades?

Infantry AT weapons is a AT guns Pak-38, 53-K, ZIS-3, Pak-40, use infantry to protect it.
Grenades, KS bottles, mines, AT rifles is a palliative ersatz weapons. They need to calm the infantry first, not to destroy tanks

[Dane49]

Infantry hand held AT weapons are basically anti armor placebos,interesting. :)In an American infantry unit all ineffective weapons would be littering the line of march as the individual soldier attempts to lighten his load of non essentials.

[Tanker]

Andrey, what about these;
(HEAT) 3cm gr.G.PzGr

Shell for Gnb.39

Are they anti tank grenades and can the German soldiers attack tanks with those?  It's my impression (possibly incorrect) that German infantry in this game are woefully weak in dealing with tanks by themselves.  Perhaps it is an accurate portrayal.  On the other hand, if the Russians can rain down KS bottles shouldn't the Germans be able to do the same with their AT grenades?

Infantry AT weapons is a AT guns Pak-38, 53-K, ZIS-3, Pak-40, use infantry to protect it.
Grenades, KS bottles, mines, AT rifles is a palliative ersatz weapons. They need to calm the infantry first, not to destroy tanks

While amusing and cute, it is not really complete and accurate.  I can understand not wanting to deal with the detail of those weapons but it leaves the game lacking.  Even CM I from 10-11 years ago featured that, accurately I think.  Right now in APOS, unless there are ATGs present, tanks need have no fear in venturing into tight, constricted areas to hunt infantry.  Historically, that's not right.

[andrey12345]

While amusing and cute, it is not really complete and accurate. 

This is the real state of things in real life. Well, think about it, if these AT weapons would be effective, they would have survived to the present day? And where is AT grenades are thrown by hand in modern armies? Exactly the same thing, we move into our game - its a last chance weapoon.

I can understand not wanting to deal with the detail of those weapons but it leaves the game lacking.  Even CM I from 10-11 years ago featured that, accurately I think. 

See statistic - most armor casaulties in WWII is from artyllery, and somehow vanishingly small percentage of such "great hand grenades", But why?  .