Do SF needs a big-sized maps?

[lockie]

This is rhetoric question, coz we know it's impossible to change the size of map in SF.
But let's imagine, we've such possibility and what the profit from this feature?
At the current moment, SF has 2x2km maps and it enables to start the battle almost right immediately, after 1-2 minutes. As my point it's quite reasonable time to start the mission core. Now imagine that map has 10x10 km (~5times more). It does that to start the mission we've to spend ~ 5-10 min. I'll give u example. During, my mission testing "showdown of the ugly duckling" the user had to go downhill (to meet soviet tanks) approximately ~3minutes, maybe more. So, I got request - is it possible to decrease the time before meeting to the 1 minute, coz going during 3min. it's boring. Moreover, when u'll meet a soviet shell - the game over and start again. Finally, I refused to short the time and left as it was. Now, question - what the profit for the user to travel on the big-sized map?

[frinik]

Well I respectfully beg to differ my friend. Having played sims with big or bigger maps like Arma2 (incl i44), TvsT, Red Orchestra even Panzer Elite I learned to appreciate having larger scale battles and the possibility of making or having more complex missions or campaigns. For example if you want to recreate major engagement like Kursk, Bagration, El Alamein, having large maps that allow you to put more units and create more complex manoeuvres SF maps just won't do... Large maps would allow you to have more objectives in a given mission ; attacks and counter-attacks. Also it would give those of us craving or trying to recreate long range engagements conducted by the Tigers Heavy Tank Battalions(SPAs) and long range artillery bombardments, or using katuyshas or Nebelwerfers more realistic and fun. Also having large maps would give us better opportunities to create urban maps with large cities Stalingrad, Bastogne, Tobruk, Kursk or Kharkov. Look at the amps in SABoW or APOS they are much larger and more fun to play than small maps could ever be... But as you said, it's moot point since we can't enlarge the maps anyway..

BTW I have finished correcting the NTA 1.7 Tweak and Shoot Sound mod and I am uploading it on gamefront. Stay tuned !

[lockie]

I learned to appreciate having larger scale battles and the possibility of making or having more complex missions or campaigns.

U've such possibility in SF also, i.e. "T-38 tank-scout", "Find the fords", "Hurry up kubelwagon", default missions. I mean, the size of map doesn't depend on the mission complexity.

having large maps that allow you to put more units and create more complex maneuvers SF maps just won't do...

U can place as more units as u want, there's no limit. To make more complex maneuvers - use 2 maps, three... How many task u gonna implement in one mission 5,6,7...10?
Are u sure that a user's tank will provide such long mission? As u know in SF no possibility to make temporally save. This is a tanksim, one shot and game over inspite that er tank is still operable.

Large maps would allow you to have more objectives in a given mission

It has. Only the mission-maker lazy makes 1-2 tasks instead 5-6. I may say u more. ALL missions of deviator doesn't has a tasks at all! I had to put them by myself in each one.

attacks and counter-attacks.

Here it is - default "Farm Red Giant, "Real Churchill".
And I may say u the true. I have as a mission-maker experiment and got a lot of users reports. And according to the reports user prefer a simple task:
- break defence
- repel attack
- attack, defence

Also it would give those of us craving or trying to recreate long range engagements conducted by the Tigers Heavy Tank Battalions(SPAs) and long range artillery bombardments, or using katuyshas or Nebelwerfers more realistic and fun.

U've such possibility right now. Give me a real example, but don't forget this is a tanksim - not a strategy. When I say tanksim I mean a battle - tank vs tank. A distance for such battle usually no more than 800-1000 meters.

Also having large maps would give us better opportunities to create urban maps with large cities Stalingrad, Bastogne, Tobruk, Kursk or Kharkov.

No. Large map don't give u a possibility to create a battle in town. It's obvious, coz if can't create a battle in town on the small map - u can't make it on the big either. And there are no urban houses. U know we tried with Donken to make smth. similar, but failed.

Look at the amps in SABoW or APOS they are much larger and more fun to play than small maps could ever be...

AFAIK, APOS it's not tanksim. SABoW it's smth. in the middle: no tanksim, nor strategy, imho. It's some kind of mixing. I read comments from some users that it's boring to travel half an hour through 10km map to find an enemy squad and finish the battle during a couple minutes.

BTW I have finished correcting the NTA 1.7 Tweak and Shoot Sound mod and I am uploading it on gamefront. Stay tuned !

OK

[frinik]

It's true what you are saying Lockie that we cannot save games thus stopping one long game to finish it the day after ain't possible. Still I wouldn't mind maps may be twice the size of those we have. 4 X 4 would make me happy.

[lockie]

Still I wouldn't mind maps may be twice the size of those we have. 4 X 4 would make me happy.

There's another problem. What du think, which map will make easer: 2x2km or 4x4?

[frinik]

Make what easier?

[lockie]

Make what easier?

The map(polygon). Did u've experience to make map 2x2km?
If so, which will be easier to make 2x2km or 4x4km?
 Usually, 10min. takes to generate the new map(2x2km), but sometimes 30min.
According tu my experience, u need from 50 till 100 times to generate a final map. This is not counting how much time u've to spend to create map from the scratch

[frinik]

I said I would prefer larger maps. Never said it would be a piece of cake to make them!!!

Here's the download link to the Tweak and Sounds NTA 1.7 Mod v2:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/23761826/Tweak+and+Shoot+NTA+1.7+Beta.zip

[lockie]

I said I would prefer larger maps. Never said it would be a piece of cake to make them!!!

I still don't understand what for do u need such big map, but it's OK
I'd agree with 2,5-3km each side. Though in fact, the real size of the map is ~2.5x2.5km, but only AI may operate on this area. For the user there's only 2x2km available.

Here's the download link to the Tweak and Sounds NTA 1.7 Mod v2:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/23761826/Tweak+and+Shoot+NTA+1.7+Beta.zip

Nice! I think this mod deserves a separate topic!

[Kyth]

It's true what you are saying Lockie that we cannot save games thus stopping one long game to finish it the day after ain't possible. Still I wouldn't mind maps may be twice the size of those we have. 4 X 4 would make me happy.

I think the maps for Steel Armor (Blaze of War) are bigger.

[frinik]

They are I remember reading about the size of the maps when that game was released.

Kyth; what's your take on map size in SF?

[Kyth]

Kyth; what's your take on map size in SF?

It would be handy to have larger maps, but not essential, I think.

Handy because some of the most interesting terrain often appears right at the map's edge. 

[frinik]

Have you guys seen the new maps for the Mius campaign posted by Andrey 123 on the SIMHQ forum? Absolutely mouth watering.....

[whukid]

Steel Fury needs a graphics overhaul. That's what it needs.

[frinik]

I Roger that!

[fabianfred]

Bigger maps use more resources, and with the maps we have I often get slide-shows if too much equipment in the mission. I don't think our computers can handle more....yet.

[whukid]

Bigger maps use more resources, and with the maps we have I often get slide-shows if too much equipment in the mission. I don't think our computers can handle more....yet.

I think it's more of the game engine than the computer. I get lower framerates in SF than I do in SABOW, both on max graphics

[frinik]

Me too. I have better fps with Arma2 and Crysis than SF on average. I can play BF3 multiplayer without problem on one of my laptops but SF makes the cpu throttle down after 20 minutes on average! iThe game is not coded to take advantage of multi core cpus. having a better graphic card does not help much .